Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 12/29/14: The New Year’s Edition

This entry is part 24 of 24 in the series Spoilers 2014: Part 2

Happy Almost New Year, everyone!

Book Two in the Fraterfamilias series, Confraternitas, is out. It’s by Judith Doloughan and our very own Paula R. Stiles. And check out Jazz Age Cthulhu, out now. Don’t forget to pick up a copy of Demonstra, Nickronomicon, and Sword and Mythos, all out now from Innsmouth Free Press, while you’re at it. You can get them in both print and ebook for those brand-new Kindles you got for Christmas.

This week, we have more news and spoilers about Supernatural. Heather will be back with more info about Doctor Who and sci-fi series in the New Year. Doctor Who fans will be thrilled to hear that Companion Clara and the current Doctor will be in the next series coming in 2015.

You can access previous spoilers columns here.


Last Week in Innsmouth

Missed us last week? Check out our previous Whispers, Spoilers and Speculation Corner. We also had a new Retronomicon column, a review of NBC series Dracula 1.04, as well as a review of Sleepy Hollow 1.06. In addition, the latest Gods and Monsters column reviewed Supernatural 9.05.


Supernatural (Tuesday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

“Girls, Girls, Girls” on repeats this week, and “Hibbing 911” is on next week. The show returns with new episodes in the new year on January 20.

I’ve started 12 (at least) days of episode reviews between now and January 20. My review of “Dog Dean Afternoon” is out now.

Travis Aaron Wade was tweeting about Cole returning around episode 10.15/16, though it appears he may have deleted the tweets now.

In ratings news, the repeat of “Ask Jeeves” got a 0.3/1 in the A18-49 demo and 860 thousand in audience, while the Live+7 ratings for “Hibbing 911” rose from 0.9 to 1.5.


We’ll be back next week with more news, spoilers and blatantly unabashed self-promotion. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm and Supernatural.


If you like these spoilers, please help continue our site by making a donation, buying one of our fiction issues, or buying one of our books: Fraterfamilias, Historical Lovecraft, Future Lovecraft, and our Gothic horror anthology, Candle in the Attic Window. You can also buy Paula’s non-fiction book on medieval Spanish history, Templar Convivencia.


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IFPWhispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 12/29/14: The New Year’s Edition

45 Comments on “Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 12/29/14: The New Year’s Edition”

  1. evave2

    Paula, that business with the ratings going from 0.9 to 1.5 over seven days…is that the way it is for most show since even “I” dvr a lot of stuff now too?

    Can you tell me what Flash and Arrow get for their plus 7’s?

    Oh Merry Christmas, Happy New Year. We have massages scheduled for New Year’s Day, SO looking forward to THAT.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      No info on Arrow’s +7, but its +3 went from a same-night 1.4 to 1.9 because that episode was the second part of a two-parter with The Flash. It usually gets a good bit lower. The Flash in the same week rose from a 1.6 to 2.6. Of course, those ratings were highly unusual, since it was a heavily promoted two-parter (albeit, just because something is heavily promoted, that doesn’t mean it will automatically do well). The Flash usually gets more like a rise from 1.4 to 2.2 or 2.3 and Arrow usually gets something like a 0.9 to a 1.4 or 1.5.

      Massages sound like fun. What kind are they?

    2. gail

      I finely found out what Hunter Games is about, all I could find was who was in it. With Cas and Crowley in it that does not leave much time for Dean and Sam and what happened with the Mark. Don’t really care that Rowena is plotting against Crowley, but Claire wants revenge on Dean for killing Randy, really, does she not know that he sold her to that guy? Please tell me she is not going to be around long, Cas should take her and hit the road with her. Cas did not care about helping Dean last season why should we believe he wants to help now and how can he help if he has to babysit Claire?

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        I kinda have to laugh at how irate the writers get over fans’ shipping of Dean with other men, yet they exacerbate it by having those same male characters ditch Dean for…women. If you don’t like the slash shipping, Glass & Co., don’t start it in the first place by casting Dean as the bromance dude left behind when his brother and BFFs pick a “‘ho” over a “bro.”

  2. evave2

    Full body, one and a half hours. It feels like floating when we get out.

    It’s a nice little “historic registry” type of place. It began as a hot spring only BUT had a room attached for hookers to take care of the sheepherders “issues” and now has a few rooms, tubs that you lay in for about 1/2 hour before the massage (love to be in SUPER hot water) and then a nice lady or gentlemen works out all the kinks.

    I could do this once a week (but of course, ‘WAY too expensive).

    Do you happen to know WHY Arrow and his opponent decided to sword fight barechested in the snow? I don’t want to watch it, but that scene in the commercial just gave me the giggles.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Kewl. Hot springs are always nice.

      As I recall, Ollie is fighting Ra’s al Ghul on a mountaintop and it’s some “Asian” custom thing-y to do that particular style bare-chested. I don’t know much more than that. I’ve sort of been watching less and less since they killed off Sara and decided to go whole-hog with Laurel becoming Black Canary. Katie Cassidy is not the least bit convincing as Laurel, let alone as one of the most badass female characters in comics history. It’s a shame, but it says a lot about where the showrunners’ heads are at.

      1. evave2

        I told my husband what you said about Ra’s al Ghul demanding it. He said well they look less masculine than Putin bare-chested on his horse. We had a good giggle about that at dinner tonight.

  3. evave2

    Oh, so the other dude demanded it. But that doesn’t explain why Ollie did it. It just looked so ridiculous.

    i gotta say one thing about Grant Gustin, he sure looks like he’s enjoying himself. He puts on The Flash suit and he doesn’t look embarrassed. That’s why I could not be an actor. I have too high an embarrassment kick.

  4. Alycat

    Hey – I made this observation on another site that I thought I’d like your input/insight on. I’ve been doing rewatch of Seasons 3, 4 and 5 and I noticed (to me anyway) that it seems like earlier on that the show took greater advantage of the time it was allotted within an episode. I likened it to dismounting a roller coaster at the end of the ride. Nowadays I find myself watching the clock, seeing that there are 15 minutes left (not counting commercials) with 3 plot threads that still have to be tied up and yet still here we are plodding along. Afterwhich I come to the conclusion, mental calculation not withstanding, that in those remaining 7 odd minutes the episode will more than likely be resolved in a predictable (oftentimes) unimaginative way, as if the writer got bored, leaving 2 or 3 minutes for Sam and Dean. What happened to the rollercoaster? Granted not every episode in the past was like that but truly how many of these newer season episodes leave you guessing? Of course it might help if they didn’t keep using werewolves and vampires over and over again, ad nauseum. I have to admit the DemonDean MOC arc is nicely fitting the bill (when they deem it important enough to show as opposed to we the viewer picking up when Jensen is purposely playing Dean “off”) and Crowley/Rowena have me a bit curious. Plus the whole Cas/Hanna returning the vessel was unexpected – Ok, Hell – maybe I’m referencing more the MOTW format per ep? Long story short, without trying to explain my reasoning this early in the A.M…. I just find that instead of – Wow! That was one wild ride!!! I notice the commercial breaks more, like Act 1, 2, 3 and 4 instead of it being one fluid story for me to enjoy. It just baffles me how an episode like The End or What Is and Never Shall Be or the one about the Siren or the one where Crowley laments that he’s hunted and ‘they ate my tailor!!!’ or even the episode where Pamela dies… can be so damn jam packed compared to most episodes I see today. Am I making ANY sense whatsoever here??? No? Just me then. Ok, I’ll shut up now. 😉

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      I think what you’re thinking of is the editing. It was much, much more frenetic. I didn’t always like it. I often felt that just as we started to sink into a scene properly, we’d zip on to the next one. Felt like chasing a puppy on a sugar high.

      I’ll grant you about the overuse of some monsters. The whole thing with the vampires needs a stronger through-line and werewolves never worked on this show.

      Part of the problem is that the Nepotism Duo have terrible pacing and they do about four episodes a year. But then, Sera Gamble’s solo scripts tended to fall part completely in the third act. So, I think we just traded in older problems for new ones.

  5. evave2

    I don’t think I agree with you; but I do agree that some earlier seasons the show did move at breakneck pace.

    I have made much in my mind of them having 42 minutes a week to tell their story, but I think Supernatural does 2-3 minutes of “previouslies” so they are not even doing 42 minutes.

    I am rewatching season 4 (on TNT) the past week or so and I am just overwhelmed how dislikable unlikable Sam is.

    I also am shocked that Kripke thought the audience did not “know” what Ruby was up to. HE WAS DIRECTING HER TO SMIRK ALL THE TIME. Gah.

    I got a question too: I know the original theory was for Dean/Michael and Sam/Lucifer to jump into the pit together. I get that Sam was able to throw off Lucifer for a short while due to Lucifer beating the crap out of Dean and planning to kill Dean. So Sam “remembered” his brother’s love for him and threw off Lucifer. HOW could Dean have thrown off Michael? I just don’t get it. PLEASE if anybody knows what the original plan was PLEASE tell me.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Strangely enough, some of the strongest and most popular episodes have clocked in under forty minutes. With credits.

      Kripke never said anything about how Dean would “resist” Michael. I suspect the original plan was for Sam to remember and throw both himself and Dean/Michael into the Pit.

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        For some reason, some people’s comments are appearing in our email inbox rather than on the WordPress site as comments:

        “veverka@windstream.net

        11:43 AM (7 hours ago)

        to me
        —- Innsmouth Free Press wrote:

        OH so Sam Saves The Day. Ok.

        I finally watched When the Levee Breaks and Lucifer Rising on DVD just because both shows pissed me off so much I wanted to listen to the commentary.

        Sera Gamble talking about how Sam “suffered” as he was murdering the nurse made me gag.
        Then Kripke said, hey at the end of the episode the boys are back together and Sam apologizes so all is well…as the credits rolled nearly made me throw up in my mouth.

        I KNOW I have discussed how Sam and Dean look at each other as Lucifer is Rising. Sam lowers his head and has trouble meeting Dean’s eyes and then says I’m sorry with his head screwed a little sideways. Dean is just looking at him. Oh, yeah, the boys are back together. Kripke, I never want to come to your family for Christmas or Thanksgiving. It appears to me that he thinks saying “I’m sorry” is enough to heal any and all family wounds.

        Because THAT was where Dean should’ve smacked Sam. Of course, they had to get out of there (and wasn’t it odd that Dean was pulling on Sam and Sam was standing here saying, He’s Coming”?) and because Dean was practical he didn’t smack Sam.

        Today I am going to watch Sympathy for the Devil (I don’t know if it has commentary yet, I will check as soon as I finish this comment) to find out what the Show thought was going on. But watching Sam get hit in the face by the rotary phone NEVER gets old.”

  6. hermitme

    Happy New Year everyone!

    I do think that the original plan was for both Dean/Michael and Sam/Lucifer to fall in the pit, but it may be that both would have done so together, thus making them both heroes. Unfortunately, I think idiot Gamble came up with the soulless Sam story so Dean was kicked out of the mytharc to justify Sam being rescued without his soul. Idiot move but whatever.

    I do feel part of the pacing problem started with Kim Manners getting sick and not being able to guide the show like he used to in the earlier seasons. Heaven knows Kripke had no sense of timing and I also feel that once Kim wasn’t able to be the show’s mentor, Kripke just lost interest leaving Gamble to take over. Her JP obsession really dragged the show down.

    These days, I don’t think Carver cares about what’s going on and the writers don’t seem to have any sense of good story telling at a good pace. I read somewhere, or heard, that Glass was the lead writer heading the writing room, which explains the show’s inability to be able to write for 3 characters and keep the storylines consistent and unified.

    Sadly I feel that Kim was truly the genius behind SPN and the show couldn’t capture the same imagination it had then. Not to say the show didn’t have problems back then, it did, especially with Kripke’s obsession in trying to make Sam the biggest Marty Stu on the history of television. But I think Manners kept that in check as best he could.

    But at least in the earlier seasons we had more than vampires, werewolves, demons and angels. It seems that’s all we had since season 4. Meh. The show has lost quality and sadly, by the show’s insistence that everything that happens must happen to Sam and if it happens to Dean it’s only to give Sam another story, the show and the writers limit themselves, which is why it’s been so redundant.

    Granted purgatory was a fantastic idea and unique, but that was dropped in favor of another version of what’s wrong with Sam. Demon Dean was another brilliant idea, along with the MoC and Cain, but again, it’s not being used and Demon Dean lasted barely 3 episodes whereas if it was Sam, I’m sure Sam would still be a demon with Dean angstying.

    Now that the second season is upon us, I read that the MoC will last maybe another 3 episodes at best, and then I won’t be surprised if the rest of the season is spent not on fillers, like Dean’s stories have been wasted on, but focused on whatever will be wrong with Sam, again.

      1. hermit

        So he says, but I’m not sure exactly how or what he knows. We know Cain will be back in either episode 13 or 14 so I’m guessing he’s there to take care of the MoC. I don’t see it lasting beyond those episodes and weren’t we told this would be the year of Deanmon? 3 episodes is hardly what I consider a year. I don’t think Misha knows enough for me to really take his words as gospel. I will take them like I take JP’s, with a grain of salt.

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          I don’t see any reason for Collins to lie about that, not least because he’s talking about the season mytharc, which ought to have gotten started by now. Further, Cole is returning not long after Cain and there really is no reason for him to do that if Dean doesn’t still have the MoC.

          There is also no reason to believe the MoC will go to Sam. Sam hasn’t had a supernatural storyline in about a season now and there’s nothing on the horizon for him in that category, either.

          It’s easy to be bitter, but bitterness does not increase one’s predictive capacities. What it does do is decrease one’s enjoyment of the show and harsh other fans’ mellow. For example, people have been predicting the MoC would be written out or transferred to Sam since “First Born.” It’s been a season, now. Why not just admit that nobody really knows what’s going to happen next, sit back, and enjoy the damned ride?

          1. Paula R. Stiles

            And this one:

            “hermit

            6:31 PM (30 minutes ago)

            to me
            Because I had faith in this show in season 8 when Carver took over, and it has since been stepped on, mutilated, and laughed out of existence. The season isn’t over so I have no reason to believe that the MoC will stay Dean’s. No I don’t have predictive capacities, and neither does anyone else, but I’m also going by this show’s history, especially under Carver, and so far, I’ve been far from impressed with his handling of Dean’s stories, considering how he handled both purgatory and Demon Dean.

            Be as it may, I will see how your faith in the show plays out. Considering how season 8 started with a Dean story and ended being all about Sam, and this season again started with Dean and I do feel that it will end being all about Sam, again. Season 9 started with Sam and ended with Dean. So, Carver seems to take turns and it’s usually what’s wrong with Sam after Dean has his 2 episodes of glory. Season 8 purgatory, then the trials. Season 9 Sam’s neverending angel story then a couple of episodes of the MoC before Dean was killed and turned to demon. Season 10, 3 episodes of DemonDean, and now what? I don’t have your faith in Carver, he’s shown over and over that Dean isn’t the character he is interested in and none of the writers seem to be either.

            We’ll see. But I don’t feel like being Pollyanna and seeing only what I want to see. I can only see what the show shows me, and so far, I have no reason to feel Dean will get his story like Sam or Cas do. Dean never does.”

          2. Paula R. Stiles

            It doesn’t have a damned thing to do with “faith” and everything to do with finding it very annoying when somebody comes up while you’re enjoying something and says, “It’s all gonna suck in the end, you know, so you should stop watching.” Thanks, but I’ll decide when I’m done with this show.

            Sam’s angel story lasted half a season. Then it became about Gadriel. Sam whinging about Dean being “mean” to Gadriel didn’t make a whole lot of sense, but it also didn’t make that storyline Sam’s again, either. That was the last time Sam got a Sam Done Come Back Wrong storyline. This year, guess who got that one?

            I don’t agree that Carver is anti-Dean. In fact, I think he is, by far, the most pro-Dean of the three showrunners/head writers we’ve had. But he also has to follow a franchise and it’s very, very hard to persuade a nervous network and studio who have an established, profitable product on their hands to agree to let you monkey with it, regardless of your title. And even if you do, there’s no guarantee what you do will work.

            What we’ve seen over the past two-and-change seasons are increasingly extended and significant Dean storylines. No, Purgatory wasn’t strictly a mytharc, but you know what? Neither were Samelia or Samekiel (the difference being that Purgatory was received a lot better than either of those two storylines). Whereas, the MoC is basically the only mytharc game in town right now. For that reason alone, I don’t see it disappearing any time soon. If it did, they’d *really* be up a creek with no mytharc paddle. It’s not as though the audience is enthusiastically responding to Castiel’s subplot with Hannah or Crowley’s with his evil Mum.

            As for Pollyanna, the “Glad Game” has diddly-squat with seeing only what you want to see. It’s about seeing a positive thing in even the worst situation. People tend to forget that the title character of that book has a very hard life and playing her Glad Game is about the only way she can get through it all without jumping off a bridge. It’s no more self-delusional than Dean choosing to enjoy great sex and a good steak, despite what the MoC is doing to him.

      2. hermit

        Besides, who is to say that the MoC will stay Dean’s? From the history of this show, it may well be transferred to either Cas or Sam, which this show is notorious for doing, giving Dean’s stories to other characters so that Dean can concentrate on angstying, worrying and babysitting Sam.

  7. Alycat22

    Paula – I think (hope) you are correct about the MOC being with us until season’s end. I am more than curious as to where the Hell they are taking this and I agree let’s all buckle up and enjoy the ride. I’m just praying this coaster doesn’t derail by then and that Show carries over the MOC into next year…making it a permanent aspect of Dean. Did I read somewhere correctly that Cole is to be in 5 episodes in total? He’s been in 3 now, right? Where do you think they are taking his character??? Any ideas???

  8. Alycat22

    Paula I read an interesting post by Sugarhi15 in response to the article about Season 10 written by Elle2. Sugarhi15 basically did a “as I see it” – her, not me (tho I agree with a lot of it) review of Season 8, 9 and 10 and how they all tie together and what she thinks Carver is trying to accomplish. It’s very well thought out and articulated. She even spells out the reasons behind Sam not looking for Dean that may help those that thought it so OOC understand it better. She goes to great lengths to try to gain insight on both brothers. Its an awesome read!

  9. Alycat22

    Oops sorry! That article/response post is over on The Winchester Family Business site!!! What’s up with this posting difficulty lately?

  10. evave2

    Ok I read the precis for Hunter’s Game or whatever 10.10 is and I get the general outrage about Claire “plotting” against Dean.

    She’s going to find out what the entire Angel Army in Season 9 found out: nobody gets between Dean and Castiel.
    So Castiel won’t be helping her.

    I gathered nobody was sympathetic to her issues. I get that. I do. But she was a street kid who found one person who gave her a “home” and it didn’t matter to her that he was a pig. I know she is a ton and a half of bad road here. But she cared for Randy.

    AND watching The Things We Left Behind again I have a different take on what happened to Randy: IF when the Loan Shark Posse began to attack Dean Randy had run and stayed out of it, he would not have died. He was out of his chair and amidst the rest of the Posse. I don’t “know” that he was involved, I only “know” that he wasn’t running away from the fight. To me, he was part of the fight. BUT I don’t blame Claire for being upset, Randy may have been a thin reed, but he felt like her shelter. Castiel? The guy who KILLED her father and destroyed her family? She’ll never give one hoot about him. Sam? Was a guy who was friends with the guy who KILLED her father and destroyed her family. She may not know Dean’s importance to Castiel (what does she remember from the minutes she was Castiel’s vessel?) or she may and hate Dean for that alone.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      The problem is that Claire knew for a fact that Randy had sold her to be raped in order to pay his debt. When she came downstairs and said, “Randy,” with a bitter look, and he just looked down, she knew. That’s why, when they got in the car, she hugged Castiel. He was all she had left. She knew Randy had betrayed her.

      But that’s a big problem with Claire–she doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for someone of her age and gender, in her situation.

      As for why Randy ended up dead, yeah, he was pretty obviously either attacking Dean or, at the very least, making no move whatsoever to help him. He was facing Dean when he was killed, which means he wasn’t running away. So, at the very least, he was just sitting there, watching the show, as we saw him doing when Dean was being beaten.

      If I’m supposed to sympathize with a dirtbag like Randy, then I expect him to be held to the same standards as his killer. And in that respect, he comes off miserably.

      1. evave2

        I just don’t expect a kid to act like a reasonable person. I agree with everything you said that she is hard to take but I guess I have lower expectations.

        I really appreciate Roark Cirtchlow and his choice to wear those glasses. Those glasses were just perfect as was his name “Randy” (as Dean said, she’s hanging out with a guy named Randy, that’s all we need to know). That guy was so sleazy. he was WONDERFUL.

        She’s a kid, she knew he sold her out, but once he was dead she would only think about the fact he gave her dinner at a table in a dining room. I’m sure she’ll tell Castiel that Dean was awful, and Castiel will say everything you said, and she’d respond, Randy didn’t have a choice. She’ll excuse it all. She’ll say I OFFERED to rob the store. It was MY idea, it was my buddy not RANDY who gave me the gun.

        I don’t see how Claire could help Castiel with his grace problem. Is it that they might rekindle the “grace remaining in a vessel” from the Season 9 search for Gadreel? Well, that could work. Hey, maybe that’s why Claire is a bitch, that little bit of grace is like an itchy WORM inside.

        Because any part of Castiel’s grace is equal to the whole? I wonder WHY they never had Castiel power up on Dean’s soul power, as a vessel wasn’t his soul supposed to be like a super reactor? Well, it could happen.

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          I think it’s extremely dangerous not to expect moral behavior from kids and that stupid theory about how teens are essentially little sociopaths until–ping!–they turn 18 and magically grow up, is pernicious to the extreme. Yes, I know it’s supposed to be more complicated than that, but that’s what it really boils down to.

          There are developmental milestones, and teens (God bless ’em) are young and dumb and lacking in experience, but that is not the same thing as expecting Lord of the Flies behavior from children and teenagers as normal.

          I also think it’s very problematical for Claire. While I’m not overly thrilled by the way the show characterized Claire in this past episode, I do think the intent is that Claire is not damaged because she’s a stroppy teen but because almost all of the adults in her life have failed her, except for her father, who died (and Dean, who basically unhitched her from a very ugly situation), and that the angel who possessed her father (and her) is largely responsible for it. The show wasn’t exactly subtle about making Castiel responsible for a great deal of Claire’s bad situation.

          Claire’s reaction at the very end is over the top and the idea that she would blame Dean is a bit ludicrous. When she comes downstairs, she’s furious with Randy and might have hit him if Dean hadn’t told Castiel to get out of there. She makes *no* attempt to beg Castiel and the brothers to take Randy with them. This is a guy she was previously willing to commit robbery to save up to that point. She knows full well that once they leave, her would-be rapist and his gang would do quite-horrible and probably fatal things to Randy, yet not a peep in his defense. Instead, out in the car, she huddles in the arms of the angel wearing her father.

          There’s also the Gus Macrae (Lonesome Dove) Factor to consider here. When a guy rolls in like John Wayne and slaughters her rapist/would-be rapist in the process of helping her “father” rescue her, an impressionable young woman from a hard knocks life is apt to find that wildly romantic. That he’s nuts and a friend of her “daddy”–and totally not interested (therefore “safe”)–would just add to it. It’s like that line from “Casablanca”: “I like to think you killed a man. It’s the romantic in me.”

          That’s probably way too dark for the CW, but you never know. The show’s synopses have not always been what you’d call accurate.

          No arguments about Critchlow, though. There’s something decidedly creepy about the way Randy just sits there in the chair, watching every development closely with this wide-eyed, owlish look, yet making absolutely no move to help Claire–or Dean. Nice acting touch there.

          I’m not sure why they haven’t had Castiel try to power up on Dean or Sam’s soul, aside from Carver’s aversion to using season six/seven canon, but it’s possible it’s far too dangerous. Castiel did say that if he did it wrong with Bobby, Bobby could go nuclear. And if I’m right about archangel vessels having much more “nuclear” fuel than ordinary vessels or non-vessel humans (as we presume Bobby was), tapping Dean, or even Sam (who would have been drained a bit since Lucifer’s possession, the Trials, and Gadriel’s possession), could blow up half the planet.

          But you’re probably right that Claire will be a big key in Castiel getting his old grace back.

  11. evave2

    I am splitting this up because I know I run-on.

    I also think that the “stupidest idea EVER” will be Castiel negotiating with Metatron to help Dean. Castiel would not go to Metatron (he dissuaded Hannah from making a deal with Metatron) re his grace problem; but for Dean, as Metatron said, Dean is Castiel reason for everything.

    Castiel is willing to go to any lengths for Dean.

    I read Tiki and CastielsCat on IMDB and agree with them re the whole isseu. But again. I DO feel sympathy for Claire. She has been fucked over royally by The Good Guys. I think the best Castiel can do for her is find her mom (and I hope Amelia is not dead because I think she might’ve been killed by demons) or find out what happened to her mom and restore that family to her. And give them money to live on. Because Claire was right, he was sorry because he was guilty, not because he was SORRY. He’d do everything all over again. For Dean.

  12. evave2

    Paula, did you get my response to your midnight missive? It did not show up as “awaiting moderation” and so I emailed you privately.

    I don’t think it was too long so it not being here surprised me. Unless I forgot to hit “submit.” I HAVE been known to do that.

  13. evave2

    Wow, that was gone in the ETHER then.

    I think Claire’s relationship with Randy was complicated. I think she wanted away from him, but didn’t want him dead. You are right that Claire did not try to get Randy to come with them, that was his house.

    My kids were really irritating to me in just the way Claire is irritating, and that actually makes me look at her fondly.

    I think Claire “might” (speculation only) release Metatron because he’ll promise to kill Dean. Of course, he’ll probably just run away.

    I read some speculation that Dylan Baker (?) from last season’s Boys’ Home story might be back. I wonder if somebody tries to make Dean younger to BEFORE he had the Mark (maybe they find a friendly witch again?) only he goes back to, say, last time he felt safe (at Sonny’s) and then Claire gets a crush on Dean. And I also would like if Dean didn’t remember anything of the time between NOW and THEN so he was the same kid.
    Well, I doubt it anybody is taking suggestions from me, but I like the ideas.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Your original version is up. This is your email version, which is slightly different:

      “My kids were both rather irritating in their teens, early twenties so I look on Claire with some actual nostalgia. I think it is complicated what she felt when she saw Randy actually dead.

      When she was kicking Loan Shark Rapist she looked feral to me. She is one wild little child.

      I am speculating: she’ll let Metatron out of the Bunker Dungeon because he’ll promise to kill Dean.
      But then he will run away; or he’ll try to kill Dean and fail (or succeed, depending how you look at it).

      The episode About A Boy is being speculated to be about a deaged Dean. I wonder if it is true if Dean will have his current memories. I remember young, unspoiled Dean rather fondly (I mentioned this to my husband and he asked if I think he’ll be rehymenated again. Whatta guy!)
      and might he date Claire? Wouldn’t that be a kick in the pants? And if Cole shows up and meets child-ish Dean I think THAT will be the icing on the cake.

      Oh, I watched Sympathy for the Devil TWICE yesterday just because it never gets old, seeing Sam hit in the face with a rotary phone. Husband suddenly commented, seeing as how Sam had already been hit with the toilet plunger, if somebody was subtextually saying Sam was a poopyhead (well, I would use the other word but don’t know if there are filters for THAT WORD).”

  14. evave2

    Oh oh I just thought about my speculation re “young” Dean and Claire? Can you just SEE Castiel if horndog Dean was cruising on Claire? That would make an episode worth PAYING for.

  15. AlyCat22

    Wow this boards been quiet lately… Snow I hope u r wrong about the ep About a Boy being about a de-aged Dean! I don’t think the world is ready for all those frantic ticked off Sam fans and the resulting riots. As far as the next episode coming up, I have mixed feelings. I for one hope and pray that Claire is the last teen aged character they subject us to for awhile. I also hope they wrap her storyline up quickly. No offense meant to the actress, she did a fine job and all I’m just not looking forward to the exploration of Cas as a dad plot. Especially when the MOC is on the table. You know – I think, for me anyway, these mini hiatus’s are worse that the break in between each season. At least then you can put it out of your mind! Fingers crossed mid season return will have been worth the wait!

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Actually, that was Eva’s theory. Can’t say I’m too wild about it, either (was not a fan of “The Curious Case of Dean Winchester”), but I’ll wait and see what happens.

  16. AlyCat22

    Paula did you get my last comment? One minute it was in moderation, the next it just vanished. Hopefully the sites not still having issues…

  17. AlyCat22

    Paula – I was just rewatching The End. Just wanted to call out something funny in one of the scenes in case it was overlooked. In the clip where Zach is showing Dean the newspaper so that he sees how bad it gets, in typical Ben Edlund style, upper left hand corner it reads: Real Estate Gets Real. With entire cities vacant, overwrought with Croatian Virus, thousands of homes destroyed by torrential hurricanes, tornadoes and tsunamis – if you can afford to buy, now is the time. p32. Ha! I can’t believe I never paused to read the paper as many times as I’ve watched this one!!! Oh, but I did learn to hoard toilet paper… 🙂

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