TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 8/24/11

This entry is part 8 of 26 in the series Spoilers 2011: Part 2

This week, we have spoilers for upcoming show Once Upon a Time (which we will start reviewing this fall), and returning veterans Doctor Who and Supernatural. We’ll also start reviewing Doctor Who again when it comes back from hiatus on August 27:

Doctor Who (Saturday nights, 9pm, BBC America)
By Heather S. Vina

Doctor Who is back this weekend, yay! Back on Saturday, August 27, with the episode “Let’s Kill Hitler”, it will run for another 6 episodes before ending again for the season on October 1st.

As to when it will be back again…there have been some different stories about that. We do know that Matt Smith is signed for another 14 episodes (a full season of 13 episodes, plus a Christmas episode) and we do know that the BBC ordered another full season of 14 episodes (again, a Christmas episode and a full season). But there have been different stories about when these episodes will air. One report had them breaking up the season, so that half of it would air in 2012 and half of it would air in 2013, which was, quite frankly, upsetting for a lot of fans to hear, me included.

But today, an interview with Steven Moffat was released by The Daily Beast (Beware of minor spoilers for the rest of season 6!) that tells a different story. When he’s asked if the reports about budget cuts at the BBC are the reason for the decision not to air the full season 7 in 2012, Moffat had this to say: “Absolute nonsense. First of all, we are airing in 2012. The only thing that’s happening is that we’re moving a bit later…There’s lots of reasons for that that will become clear quite soon…It is certainly not a reduced episode count. Do you think the BBC would really let that happen? With an average audience of 10 million? Doctor Who’s international profile is huge. It’s never been more successful. You’re not going to reduce a show like this. The opposite is going to happen, in fact.”

Which leads one to wonder: What does he mean about the “opposite” happening? Could the BBC actually be doing more episodes than 14? For me, that would be awesome, as more Matt Smith as Eleven is a good thing! But considering Steven Moffat has said he’s quite busy with both Doctor Who and Sherlock, I’m not quite sure how that would work.

Regardless, for this Doctor Who fan, Moffat stating that we will be getting a full season in 2012 is very good news, indeed!

Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 9pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina

This show doesn’t begin airing until October 23 on ABC, but there are already spoilers coming out for it!

From an article with Danielle Turchiano, the LA Times Examiner TV Insider, producers Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz stated that the show would be focusing on fairy tales as a way of showing “hope.” “For us, that’s what a fairytale is. It’s that ability to think your life will get better. It’s why you buy a lottery ticket – because if you win, you get to tell your boss that you’re quitting and you get to move to Paris, and that’s Cinderella, right? One day, she’s sweeping up and the next, she’s going to the ball. Adam and I just wanted to write about something hopeful that, for one hour a week, you put everything aside and you have that feeling.”

Though the show features Snow White and her Prince Charming, with other characters like Red Riding Hood and her Grandmother, the Dwarves, and Gepetto and Pinocchio, with villains the Evil Queen (from Snow White’s fairy tale) and Rumpelstilskin, other fairy tale characters will be making appearances later on. In Episode 4, Cinderella (played by Jessy Schram, who was recently on Falling Skies) and her Prince (played by Tim Phillipps, who appeared on Neighbours) will be making their appearance, and they’ve already filmed their wedding. I’m guessing said wedding will be in the past in Fairy Tale Land, since no one in the present seems to be with the people they love.

Matt Webb Mitovich and Megan Masters at TVLine have an article about the show, with Q&As from the TCA Press Tour.

I saw the pilot at Comic-Con and it was a good first episode, with a lot of interesting characters played by good-to-great actors. My biggest concern is how long they can sustain the mystery of the show before it gets old and frustrating. The whole premise is built on these characters having no memories of who they are and living unhappy lives as a result of the Evil Queen’s curse. You can only sustain that premise so long before viewers get frustrated that no progress is being made in giving these characters some happiness. David Anders (Alias) has been cast as a love interest for Snow White’s alter ego. But how rootable is a romance with Snow White, really, when the viewer knows that her true love and husband is lying comatose in the hospital, only, she doesn’t know it?

The writers and producers are going to have to tread very carefully with this, lest the premise wears out its welcome and the viewers get frustrated and turn off the show.

Supernatural (Friday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

At the end of last Friday’s episode, lo and behold, we finally got a new promo for season seven (which returns on September 23 at 9pm). Then we got an extended version yesterday. I had a feeling we would, as I was seeing new promos for every other show on the CW throughout the episode. The short version has a lot of Castiel being scary and Sam being beaten up. The title cards say, “Kiss Your Cass Goodbye” (A lot of people were not thrilled by the diminutive “Cass”). The first exchange is Castiel saying, “You should be thankful for my mercy” in voiceover. Then Dean says to Castiel, “Cas, this isn’t you. Who are you?” and Castiel says, “I’m God.”

The first two images are blood dripping on the floor and Sam falling to his hands and knees, apparently with a bloody nose. The next bit is the exchange between Dean and Castiel. There are brief shots of Sam gasping for air, Death standing in someone’s living room and Crowley (perhaps in the same room) standing in a crucifixion pose that may or may not be death throes, as he grimaces and pushes out with his fists. In one hand, he’s holding a glass of whiskey.

Then we see Dean punching a policeman in the face with a saltgun, Sam being dragged up to the ceiling by a noose made out of a ceiling lamp chain, and a short sequence showing Castiel lying down bloody and getting up, looking dazed and beaten, in what looks like a kid’s room or a birthday party. Then the last shot is of Castiel outside, from below, blocking out the sun, saying in voiceover, “The Castiel you know is gone.”

The extended version begins with a short sequence of Castiel knocking down a priest at the Lady of Serenity Church. Outside, the sign says, “BELIEVE IN GOD. HE WALKS AMONG US.” In voiceover, Castiel is saying, “Be thankful for my mercy. If you rise up, I will strike you down.” The exchange between Dean and Castiel is split up and used as bookends for the promo. There’s some new dialogue of Castiel saying, “The Castiel you knew is gone.” The title cards read, “In Cass We Fear.” In a montage, Sam is falling down, a bloodied Castiel is apparently being struck by lightning, Bobby and the brothers do a ritual in his library, and there’s a slightly extended bit of Castiel waking up in the child’s room/birthday party. I find myself wondering if, in addition to eating up the souls from Purgatory, Castiel has been possessed by God, or perhaps just a god, since pagan gods in the SPNverse are a type of monster.

We also have new titles for episodes. 7.06 will be “Slash Fiction” and will feature the introduction of a recurring character, “Frank”, who will be a “mad computer genius”. It makes me think that if they really wanted a character like that still around, they shouldn’t have killed Ash off (Though some of the fan speculation that it could be a play on “Dr. Frank-n-furter” from Rocky Horror Picture Show is amusing). Either way, with the life expectancy of the recurring characters these days, I don’t think I’ll be getting too attached. 7.07 will be “All in the Family”, 7.08 will be “The Mentalists” and 7.09 will be “Season Seven, Time for a Wedding!”. All of these titles sound really stupid.

We got a new video interview from Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki, in which Ackles was asked straight-out what Dean’s role in the new season would be and did some dancing around the answer worthy of the ballerina from Black Swan. Padalecki even waded in to help. One interesting thing is that Ackles, in response, first said, “Well, I don’t think it’s just Dean’s story…” and moved on to briefly reference the brothers being “back together”, and Sam’s “dealing with more of a personal issue than Dean would” in his storyline of hellpain, before talking about the uberplot. Which makes it sound an awful lot like the uberplot is Dean’s story. In answer to a question about whether Bobby was the only one who would be getting any romantic action, Padalecki seemed to forget all about season six (and the Jessica dream in season five) and said the last time he’d gotten any, Sam opened the last seal. Meanwhile, Ackles said that they had just filmed a scene (so, this is probably in 7.04, which is apparently an MOTW ep) where Dean hits on a bartender who responds positively, causing Dean to reflect that it’s been a while. About Castiel, Padalecki said that the brothers would have to deal with not having an angel to rely on, but Ackles also said that Misha Collins “isn’t totally gone…His character has definitely taken some big hits and will continue to take some hits.”

There were more on-set photos from 7.04 (This time of a nightshoot in which a “demon” menaces a woman and Sam rescues her, while Dean gets grabbed from behind by another(?) “demon”) and a behind-the-scenes pic of Padalecki and Charisma Carpenter for 7.05. If the demon guy who’s grabbing Dean looks familiar, that’s because it’s Faran Tahir from Warehouse 13 and some on the SpoilerTV discussion thread are claiming the character’s name is “Osiris“. As in, the Egyptian god of the dead. The actress is Emilie Ullerup, who played Ashley on Sanctuary. According to IMDB (which is not necessarily reliable), she plays a character named “Mia”.

7.05 started filming on August 21. Phil Sgriccia is directing it. Carpenter has been tweeting a lot from the set, though not much that’s spoilery. Mainly that the character has to chant a lot of Romanian (Ackles commiserated with her by talking about having to shout two pages of Latin. I’m guessing that’s from season five’s “Swap Meat”). Plus, it seems the duck pond is filling up. Quickly.

Guy Bee tweeted a Sam photo from the editing room for 7.03.

The CW put up some promo cards for its show schedule. Interesting note – while most of the shows had pictures of the top-billed characters, Supernatural (which had a photo of Dean) was one of the three (out of ten) that had a picture of the most popular non-top-billed character, instead.

Interviews continue to leak out from Comic-Con. Here is one for Jensen Ackles and one for Misha Collins. Not particularly spoilery, but they do speak to character motivations.

In yet another of her non-spoilers, Ask Kristin apparently tried to stir up trouble (and hits) by hinting that Lisa and Ben would never been seen again and that Castiel would be gone after 7.02. I’m pretty sure Kristin has been predicting we’d never seen Lisa and Ben since, oh, 6.02, so read with a few saltgun shells at hand. Ausiello provided a similar non-spoiler that Mark Sheppard would be returning to the show early in the season (Ya don’t say).

Meanwhile, Matt Roush took a bit of a slap at Supernatural, but considering his ideas of must-see TV are Fringe and Lost (I’d sooner watch paint dry for both), and he ignores the U.S. (well, Canadian, really) version of Being Human‘s rocky start (only approaching Supernatural on a good day in its last few episodes), or that plenty of fans had issues with the middle seasons of Battlestar Galactica, I can’t say I think much of his taste in shows. Though I will agree with him that Farscape ended too soon.

TVmerch has had ordering links up for the 2012 calendars for a week or so, but now, it also has cover images. Calendars will come out October 3 and are available for preorder.

Finally, the ratings for last Friday’s repeat of “Mommy Dearest”, were another 0.4/1 and 990 thousand viewers. Steady as she goes.

We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event and Supernatural.


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IFPTV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 8/24/11

25 Comments on “TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 8/24/11”

  1. Ginger

    “Which makes it sound an awful lot like the uberplot is Dean’s story.”

    At the risk of missing something important about a certain special snowflake, I hope you’re right. At this point, I really don’t care if Dean is part of the uberplot or not. I just want him to be in character and used in the show, and for me the Jensen/Jared interview seemed to indicate that he would be. I can live with the walks through Sam’s head, as half the fandom wants to see that and they are welcome to it, if I get the old Dean back.

    The Jensen Comic Con interview was interesting, in that Jensen’s idea of Dean’s character this season seemed far removed from the ‘soul searching’ thing Sera talked about at Comic Con. Since I tend to give a lot of weight to what Jensen says and none to what SG says, I am going to go with that and put on record, for the first time in a very long while, that S7 may turn out to be okay.

  2. shamangrrl

    I actually watched the interview with Jensen and Jared, hoping for something positive. Besides Jensen being a professional, I didn’t really get anything out of the interview. I know it’s still early times with regard to the episodes written/filmed, but there should be some sense of the overall theme for the season – and I didn’t get that. At all. It still seems to be and undefined, amorphous mess. The guys have really become side characters in their own story, which sucks.

  3. elena

    Thanks for the spoiler summary, Paula. The promos had some really interesting scenes- I’m thinking you might be right about a “god” being inside Cas. Misha also seemed kind of coy in that vid interview when he talked about it too. Maybe this “god” soul takes over Jimmy’s body: it’d be a way to keep fans guessing if Cas was still alive or not while keeping Misha on the show.

    Just ran across this zap2it article on the new promo:

    Seems like mostly the same stuff but there was something about how Sam was in hell a hundred years (is that all? I would have thought Sera would insist on a hundred million at least, lol) and how Jared plans to approach portraying the worst suffering EVAR. Sad- I remember Kripke saying that Dean had been in the worst POW camp and now, his time in Hell has not only been pretty much forgotten, it’s the equivalent to a Graceland tour How nice. I really, really resent the the show runners’s decison to take away one of the few remaining unique storylines Dean had left and hand it over to Sam, again. What is it with these people? Are they so jealous of Dean’s popularity? Because I just can’t wrap my head around constantly pushing the less popular character front and center, while treating such a valuable show commodity as shabbily as they have Dean. And the irony is that their strategy keeps backfiring: Sam’s storylines haven’t done him any favors and fans still adore Dean. Maybe they should try something drastic, like,oh, I don’t know- have Sam do some soul searching, decide to be a good brother, spend the season worrying about Dean, and trying to really solidify their relationship? If that’s been enough storyline for Dean, it should be enough for Sam too. And it’d do more to win over a lot of fans than all the limp Sam in the world.

  4. Rosa

    “I would have thought Sera would insist on a hundred million at least, lol) and how Jared plans to approach portraying the worst suffering EVAR.”

    Well, this sounds awful and redundant! How is it possible that SG and JP (yes, I partly blame him too for this mess the show has become, there are rumors…) can use another characters story from previous seasons this way and try to make everything bigger and worse etc… pathetic!!!

    Oh, and thanks for your summary, Paula. I am not optimistic!

  5. Kay

    Heather, thanks for the Once Upon a Time spoilers. Based on yours and other reviews, I’ll be watching it this Fall, though it wasn’t on my original list. It sounds really interesting so far, and I too hope they can sustain the interest. It could prove quite the contrast with GRIMM in how we view fairy tales.

    Paula, I am not much into SPN spoilers these days, they all sound extremely boring to me. But I did watch the J&J video, and the primary thing I got out of that is that Jensen seems angry, dissatisfied and irritated with the show and its direction. He actually grimaced when asked about Dean’s storyline. There is no longer the enthusiasm he had at the beginning of Season 6.

  6. Mystiquedoff

    I hope your theory that Dean’s storyline is the uberplot, Paula. Because I’m tired of all the poor widdle Sammy crap. He’s the show’s piñata; that is so redundant.

    If I continue watching SPN, it’s really because I want to see whether Dean can keep his friendship with Cas – the ONE thing that Dean has had to himself. He’s not even Bobby’s favorite anymore because Sam is the “better hunter” apparently.

  7. Lugilla Brown

    Here’s another thing that makes me crazed. Dean kept his promise to Sam and went to find Lisa and live that apple pie life even though it all but destroyed him. He was only there because Sam asked him, not because it was what he needed or wanted.

    Sam on the other hand didn’t let Dean’s body even get cold before he was off with Ruby and heading down that path of good intentions,forgeting everything Dean told him just minutes before he died. He did it because it was what he wanted and desired and couldn’t be bothered with what Dean asked of him.

    Oh that’s right, Dean didn’t make Sam pinky swear, showing once again how someone who is book smart is really dumb as a bag of hammers.

  8. Marisol

    I saw the interview too, and actually I thought they were amused at the question. Jared Padalecki did outright laugh at it. I thought Ackles handled his answer well and I didn’t see any dissatisfaction or irritation in his answer, just patience for a question he probably can’t answer for whatever reason. That’s what I saw. I am just glad that it appears they are well aware of the Dean outcry and that’s a good thing. Maybe they will do something about it this season.

    I do agree with you Paula that just maybe, this time, ever hopeful, Dean has the uberplot. Just seeing Dean be the alpha guy again and some follow through with any of his cool plotlines would make me happy.

  9. Ginger

    One thing that concerns me about a possible Dean story this season is that there is nothing coming from set reports about Jensen, unless it is to say he is not on set.

    7.01 and 7.02 are Cas heavy and set up the story for the season. 7.03 is totally Sam-centric, and in 7.04 Sam rushes in to save the damsel in distress.

    Sure, Jensen’s picture is on the promo card, but the CW pimped him like that last year. His picture was all over the place, but Dean had no role at all in the season.

    1. Paula R. Stiles


      This is not true. A set report from 7.01 described a scene in which the brothers and Bobby break into a house. Dean goes ahead of them and ties up the elderly couple who live there. He, Sam and Bobby do a ritual in which they call Death. Once Death arrives, Dean offers him junk food. There’s quite a bit of Dean in there and, as before, we see Dean being the person who interacts with Death.

      Also, while Sam had the Sambot plot (and little else), Dean was involved in every one of last season’s plots and subplots, even having one completely to himself (Lisa and Ben). And the Big Bad turned out to be All About Dean. That the season was poorly paced and dropped a lot of those storylines, while failing to build up what turned out to be the season plot at all well, does not mean that Dean was on the sidelines or not involved in the season.

  10. Ginger

    Yes, 7.01 included all three characters summoning Death and something about Sam’s blood being used in the ritual. That doesn’t really tell me much, though, as it could be setting up the storyline for what’s going on with Cas, or for who the big bad is this season, or it could simply be a chance to have Dean acting as comic relief to Death. I fully expect the two brothers to have equal screen time again this season, as I’ve found SG to be very fair in that respect.

    As far as Dean being involved in the plots and sub-plots of S6, I just saw that as pimping Dean to keep the Dean fans baited by thinking somehow Dean was involved in the story. It seemed that something was brought up every third or fourth episode suggesting that Dean was going to have a role to play in the story, and then it was just dropped. I’m not going to address the Lisa/Ben crap, except to say that, yes, that was Dean’s story and it lasted 2.5 episodes total. Thank God, since it was so awfully boring and the kid was annoying as Hell.

    As I said in my earlier post, Dean doesn’t have to be involved in the uber-plot, have character development, or be a part of any story at all. All I want from this season is for Dean to be in character and running and gunning. The Jensen/Jared interview seemed to indicate that that’s what Jensen has in mind to bring to the screen. If that happens, I will be a happy camper, because I’m going to be FF’g all of Sam’s mind-walking right off my screen anyway.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      This does not equate to Dean having no storylines or not being in a lot of the season. He did have storylines and he was in a lot of last season. “No storylines” and “bad storylines” are two different problems that require different solutions. I’d caution fans pushing too hard for a storyline–any storyline–for Dean, when their concerns are far more specific.

      And I don’t really see the sudden love for Sam’s plots. They’re nothing to write home about, either. What he got last season was frankly terrible. Pretty unpopular, to boot.

      I think the main problems are that Dean frequently gets storylines where he is portrayed as special…and then these are dropped. Meanwhile, Sam gets storylines where we are Told he is special, to the point of it being shoved down our throats, but we are never Shown it. So, Sam’s storylines, even though they aren’t dropped, implode under the weight of their own pretentiousness and Sam is stuck in a rut that makes him more and more unpopular with each season. This results in frustration for fans of *both* characters, as well as general fans of the show.

      The writers need to start thinking outside the box and mixing things up a little (Season two shows me they used to know how to do that). Dean doesn’t need any new storylines. He needs his current “special” storylines played out to their logical conclusions. If that means his character arc is the uberplot, okay. Sam, meanwhile, does need new material that challenges him and forces him to confront his faults so that he can work through them and overcome them. If the show did both, I bet Sam would be a lot more popular by the end of the season and fans would feel less frustrated with him because Dean wasn’t getting shortchanged.

      I think the writers have built up a logjam of “special features” for Dean and unadmirable traits for Sam that they need to spend at least the next season or so burning off. If they did that, we would have an indefinite amount of satisfying story left to watch.

  11. Ginger

    Oh, Paula, your critical analysis skills are impeccable. What we have here, I think, is critical analysis versus pragmatism. Based on what we’ve seen the last couple of seasons, and especially in S6, I don’t think SG is capable of critical analysis, nor has the disposition to change what SHE wants even though she knows it did not work. Maybe if her browser would block all SPN fanfiction….

    Anyway, I basically agree with what you are saying re: develop and conclude some of Dean’s numerous dropped ‘suggested’ storylines and get new material for Sam. Not much hope there, I think, but if they do nothing else, I hope that they get away from the childish character ‘parallelism’ they are so fond of these days.

    P.S. S2 is the season that really got me hooked on the show. That was a good season.

  12. Cassioe

    Dean needs his own story and one that doesn’t not equate to him following Sam around to clean up his messes. I swear them minute Dean goes, OMG SAMMY, becasue of his mind issues, I’m gone. That is just too much for me.

    Quite frankly I would be happy if Dean’s story tuned out to be NOT cleaning up after Sam. Let him deal with his own mess for a while and I am just as tired of Sam and his mind-melt this year as I was last year and this year hasn’t even started yet.

    I did watch the interviews and it seem Jared was talking the most and again it was all about him. As you pointed out JA only talked about the ‘brothers’ being back again and not much else. He didn’t even mention his directing job. I’m begining to think he is not allow to promote himself or Dean and if JP and TPTB think that will quench the Dean/Jensen popularity over Sam/Jared, they really should be in another business. Fans are not stupid and these folks need to wake up.

    Glad Bobby’s getting married again, though does anyone know who it is? I’m hoping it’s his neighbor, she was neat. Or the Sheriff would be cool too. That would be a boon to all hunters.

    If they just tone down the JP love TPTB seem have for him and keep from giving him parts that are way out of his comfort zone, s7 maybe viewable. Really they should stick to more roles like they had the last 4 episodes of last year. Bobby should become a BIG regular and that would help deminish others on stage time.

    And I agree with @rosa…JP is also to blame for what has happened given the ‘rumors’ about him.

  13. Ginger

    Is Bobby really getting married? Is that the wedding episode? If so, are they going to bring on a female as a recurring or regular cast member once again, or is Bobby marrying the Sheriff and she’s going to get killed off?

    On first glance, I’m not liking the sound of this at all. It’s just more of the same soap s*** as last year, although I didn’t mind Marci or the Sheriff too much. Oh, well, we are dealing with SG. Actually, I liked Marci better than the Sheriff.

  14. LAF

    Paula, I find myself coming back here regularly to see your perspective. I feel sad and let down by the show, and you help me gain hope.

    Can you answer a question: are The Powers aware of this undertow of anger from Dean fans? I hear alot about the Cas fans, but to me, it’s the Dean fans that can sink the ship.

    From questions, I think the media is getting it – at least they do when every single comment on their site is complaints on the treatment of Dean. But what about the people who can make a difference. Do they know? Does it really matter?

  15. madcap

    “Dean doesn’t need any new storylines. He needs his current “special” storylines played out to their logical conclusions. If that means his character arc is the uberplot, okay. Sam, meanwhile, does need new material that challenges him and forces him to confront his faults so that he can work through them and overcome them. ”

    I agree with this except for one thing. I don’t think TPTB actually realize that Sam has any faults. His falls are invariably presented as the failing of others, primarily Dean. They didn’t realize how special he was, how strong he was, what a leader he was, what a victim he is, how awesome his demon-given powers he had and blah, blah, blah.

    So the show’s fallback is always on others i.e. Dean, having to learn lessons about Sam’s awesomeness while Sam gets to worry about how no one understands his awesomeness. The completely fail to see how self-absorbed and unlikable that makes Sam. Especially when there are no reciprocal lessons for Sam on how awesome Dean is.

    Audiences always go for the underdog. I think TPTB think that is Sam but in point of fact, it is Dean because he doesn’t get all the narrative pimping and coddling.

  16. Manto

    Thanks for the spoilers Paula and Heather!

    @Paula: I didn’t like the titles for the new promos. They sounded to me a lot like they were saying “in your face, nyah, nyah” (I don’t know how else to express it or if there is a word for it). And still, no individual promo for Dean. I wish I could say I was surprised but given that he had no storyline left at the end of the season (I don’t mean all the dropped ones of seasons past, just for season 6) there is no need for one to show the viewer his journey in season 6. It’s a little sad actually.

    I wish I could read the subtext of JA’s interview alongside JP the same as you. To me, it only reads as deflection. But I sure hope it pans out the way you say.

    As for the three new titles: I don’t know what to make of “All in the family”, “Season 7, time for a wedding” sounds like a meta episode to me (I hope I’m proven wrong) and “The mentalists” sounds like it’ll be the one with the town full of psychics. I agree the sound rather stupid. Gone are the days when the titles were clever and from rock songs….

    Despite my complaints I’m starting to feel cautiously optimistic about the new season and I don’t even know why. But nonetheless I’m braced for a rather abrupt landing. 🙂

  17. Arafel

    It is so good to be able to come to a place where every one of my misgvings about what has happened to this show in the last 2 seasons are so well understood and shared. I find myself nodding in agreement with so many here and have little else to say except that IA with your thoughts on how to bring the show back on track, Paula-and elena, madcap, and Ginger, especially, have pretty much said it all for me, too. I’m not really looking that forward to the first 5 or so episodes from the spoilers we’ve gotten, but I’m still open to being surprised-even though I just can’t hope or expect to be because of the Sam, Sam, Sam direction that the writers have taken since mid S5. S7 is the make or break season for me as regards watching the show anymore, at all, whether it’s renewed or not. Even Jensen Ackles’ acting cannot overcome the all-around staleness that I saw in too much of S6; and by all the indications we’ve gotten from Ms. Gamble so far, she seems to want to just continue on down that road. I’ll try and give her this season,if I can hang in there w/o getting too disgusted(DVRing, because I, too, despise Sam’s stolen-from-Dean, back-from-hell-with-the-worst-PTSD-ever storyline so much that the FF button will be put to use a ton, I fear). Thanks to you and to most of the commenters here for all the shared insights.

  18. Paula R. Stiles

    I think the main reason why folks aren’t thrilled about this triangle is that Dean having to choose between Sam and Castiel isn’t terribly different from Sookie having to choose between Bill and Eric, or Elena having to choose between Stefan and Damon, or even Buffy between Angel and Spike. And we all know how that ends up for the female protag–Blahsville.

    The main difference is a big irony–this has got to be the gayest gay triangle that ever gayed in a horror series (and it’s mostly unintentional by the writers, though the actors sure know what they’re doing). The horror genre is not usually what you’d call “progressive”, though it has its moments, but the potential for subversion is always there. And the triangle between Dean, Sam and Castiel makes stuff like “Brokeback Mountain” and even “My Own Private Idaho” look heteronormative in comparison, because in those stories, you still have a woman at one of the points. Here, it’s all men.

  19. Ginger

    “this has got to be the gayest gay triangle that ever gayed in a horror series…”

    That’s funny. You made me smile.

    BTW, I gave up on Tru Blood this season. The writers changed Eric’s character the same way SPN writers changed Dean. And, once again, the witch was made into a supernatural powerhouse. Been there, done that once; not again.

  20. Manto

    Paula: “And we all know how that ends up for the female protag–Blahsville.”

    Sorry for being dense, but I don’t understand this. Could you maybe explain it a bit? I haven’t seen the other shows you mentioned…

    1. Paula R. Stiles


      Basically, the female protag either turns into a raging Mary Sue who has to get rescued all the time (Sookie in True Blood) or gets usurped in her own storyline by the boyfriends (Elena, and even Buffy). Either way, she becomes not really someone that women want to watch, beyond the fantasy of having two men at your beck and call (and why is it we always have to choose?).

  21. Manto

    Thanks for explaining! I see… Hmm… Not really sure how they can make Dean a damsel-in-distress character. He has become far too strong and larger than life with all those Dean-is-special tidbits throughout the series. As for the second, isn’t that what they already have done, only in a manner much worse? They just drop his storylines (or conclude them very inorganically) and then gift-wrap them for the other character.

  22. Ginger

    @ Manto: I’ll just expand on what Paula said by saying that in S6 Dean was ‘hard turned’ into being the feminine element in the triangle, being literally labeled ‘pretty’ and ‘delicate,’ carrying the baby around, in addition to adding all the characteristics associated with the feminine…all the emo’ing over family, acting the part of Ellen’s concerned ‘girlfriend’ in that one episode…that sort of thing.

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