TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 10/24/12

This entry is part 17 of 26 in the series Spoilers 2012: Part 2

This week, we have our news and spoilers about upcoming books and DVDs, Once Upon a Time and Supernatural.

Horrific Reads, Bloody Off the Press
By Nathaniel Katz

Somehow I don’t think I’ll be surprising anyone when I say that the first week of October ramps up steadily when it comes to horror until it reaches genuine landslide proportions just before Halloween. Luckily for the average horror reader’s enjoyment, albeit not for their free time or bank account, more than a few of these new releases look quite interesting.

Fittingly enough, the first of wave to arrive – coming out on Tuesday the 23rd, this column’s day of writing – is Michael West’s Spook House, the blurb of which ties the novel right into Halloween. By the week’s end, we’ll not only have gotten quite a bit closer to that date, but will have ventured far into horror’s strange territory. Todd Keisling led us over the boundaries of reality in A Life Transparent; now, in The Liminal Man, he sets down beyond to roost. It’s home and safety that are sought in Matthew Costello’s Home, a sequel to Vacation in which neither the horror nor the desperation do a great deal of letting up.

The short story, though, is the form in which the week’s main attractions have decided to come. The single most exciting collection seems to me to be Elizabeth Bear’s Shoggoths in Bloom and Other Stories, which would be essential if it had the Hugo-winning Lovecraftian title tale alone. Then there’s David’s Peak’s Glowing in the Dark, a slim volume packed with versatile, varied and cutting tales. Robert Shearman’s array of awards (including a World Fantasy Award and a Shirley Jackson Award) seems to promise that his stories will be with our genre for quite some time. If there is any doubt of that, his brilliantly titled collection Remember Why You Fear Me should keep us there, whether it does so by reacquainting us with long-loved stories or by introducing new readers to Shearman’s dark strengths.

But, when it comes to the release that packs the most succulent dread between its covers, the 23rd Mammoth Book of Best New Horror may prove unbeatable. Fans of Weird fiction might want to make particular note of tales by Mark Samuels and Simon Strantzas within it.

Finally, those enamored with the strangest of stories may be interested to note some Ex Occidente volumes with fall release dates. Derek John’s The Aesthete Hagiographer, William Charlton’s Canapes for the Daughter of Chaos, and Mark Valentine’s At Dusk are all costly-but-intriguing. When it comes to Ex Occidente titles, it seems fair to assume fabulously crafted volumes with even better prose within.

Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina

ABC released the synopsis for the episode, “Child of the Moon,” the episode featuring Ruby/Red Riding Hood.


“Annabeth Gish Guest Stars as Anita.

“‘Child of the Moon’ – Ruby’s fear about turning into a wolf during the first curse-free Storybrooke full moon is confirmed when one of the town’s residents is viciously murdered, and Ruby is the prime suspect; Decker – AKA King George – threatens to expose David as a shepherd, not a prince, and not fit to run the town as Sheriff; and Leroy stumbles upon some treasure in the Storybrooke mine that could help bring Mary Margaret and Emma back into our world. Meanwhile, in the fairytale land that was, Red Riding Hood finds a kindred spirit in Anita (Annabeth Gish), a charismatic and mysterious leader of a pack of humans who, like Red, turn out to be wolves, on Once Upon a Time, SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

Once Upon a Time stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Lana Parrilla as Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Jared S. Gilmore as Henry Mills, Meghan Ory as Red Riding Hood/Ruby, and Robert Carlyle as Rumpelstiltskin/Mr. Gold.

“Guest starring are Lee Arenberg as Leroy/Grumpy, Keegan Connor Tracy as Mother Superior/Blue Fairy, Beverley Elliott as Granny, Alan Dale as Spencer/King George, Sarah Bolger as Aurora, David-Paul Grove as Doc, Faustino Di Bauda as Sleepy, Jeffrey Kaiser as Dopey, Michael Coleman as Happy, Mig Macario as Bashful, Jarod Joseph as Billy, Annabeth Gish as Anita, Ben Hollingsworth as Quinn, Jason Cermak as Black Knight No. 1 and Chad Riley as Black Knight No. 2.

“‘Child of the Moon’ was written by Ian Goldberg & Andrew Chambliss and directed by Anthony Hemingway.”

The show made the cover of EW this week and it’s a very lovely cover, indeed! Nice article inside, as well. The EW site posted a snippet of one of the interviews with Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz, where in they spoke about whom they would like to see on the show. You can read it here. You can see the cover and a brief overview of the articles inside here. And here are some portraits EW did of the stars.

Adam Horowitz announced on his twitter the titles of some upcoming episodes: “ep 8 ‘into the deep’ ep 9 ‘queen of hearts.'”

This coming week’s episode is “The Doctor,” which features Dr. Whale, who looks like he is going to end up being Dr. Frankenstein.

You can see the promotional photos for the episode at the Spoiler TV site. And you can find the promo on YouTube here.

TV Line had a few things up this week. First, Ausiello had this spoiler up for his chat.

Question: Can I have some Once Upon A Time scoop, please? – Angie

Ausiello: Someone gets punched out this Sunday – and I can already hear viewers cheer.”

They also have up promotional pictures for the episode, “Tallahassee,” which reveals some of Emma’s past. And our mysterious man from the opening scene in the season opener, “Broken,” is in a photo with her, as a passenger in the VW Bug she owns. Which means this is PRE-Storybrooke! And we know she was arrested before Henry’s birth. Could he be the reason that she is getting arrested?

The final ratings are out for the show and it went up in the coveted demos, which is a very good thing! It received a 3.3/8 in the demos, and 9.89 million viewers.

Supernatural (Wednesday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

Tonight’s episode is the experimental found footage episode, “Bitten.” The usual promotion is up for it. We’ve got the CW promo, the Canadian promo, and the sneak peek. The writers have compared this to recent found footage film, Chronicle, but this reminds me a lot more of genre granddaddy, The Last Broadcast, from 1998. The glowing-eyes-over-the-shoulder-framed-by-evergreens is a direct rip from the latter, which was set largely in the Pine Barrens and involved people being ripped to pieces by an unseen monster.

This one is supposed to be Sam’nDean-lite. This has not thrilled a lot of fans. I can already see from the promos that the three kids who are the episode’s “heroes” are going to annoy the bejeezus out of me, which doesn’t thrill me. On the flip side, I really liked The Last Broadcast and I try not to pre-judge episodes, so we’ll see.

Misha Collins has been doing lots of interviews this week, as well as doing a con in Edmonton. Spoilers essentially boil down to the return of Castiel in 8.07 when he finally escapes from Purgatory. Kevin and his mom will also return in the same episode with a plan to build a demon bomb against Crowley. I sure hope said plan involves a whole lot of humility from Kevin, especially, since I am all full up on his being an arrogant little jackass who chokes in the clutch and his mother didn’t do much better.

It seems Castiel will deal with being manipulated by unknown forces without either he or the brothers knowing (Naomi and her group of angels, perhaps). Dean will feel guilty about leaving Castiel behind in Purgatory, but won’t actually remember what really went down. Castiel and Sam will grow somewhat closer (Big whoop. They always promise this and never deliver). And Castiel’s quest for not-quite-redemption will initially put him in line with the brothers, but create trouble down the line.

We’ve got episode synopses and information up. First, there’s the official synopsis for 8.06:

“GARTH RETURNS TO HELP SAM AND DEAN ON A CASE – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) investigate a murder and find Garth (guest star DJ Qualls) is already on the case. Dean is not happy to learn that Garth has assumed Bobby’s duties, but Garth points out that both Sam and Dean have been missing for the last year and someone needed to do it. They guys discover an ‘avenging ghost’ is responsible for the murders and they need to find the source before the killings starts again. Tim Andrew directed the episode written by Adam Glass (#806).”

I’m not the least bit impressed by this description. For one thing, Garth was previously the Hunter who was so incompetent that Bobby once asked him, “How are you even still alive?” And he’s going to replace Bobby? Don’t think so. For another, even though it’s obvious from previous Garth episodes’ set-ups that Garth will be asking for help in the guise of “helping” the brothers, I find the idea of him even pretending to help annoying. Can’t we find a different shtick for this character? And that’s not even getting into the way Glass has failed to impress over the past two seasons.

More interesting are the official photos for the episode, which include Garth in fringe and a zombie Civil War soldier. Garth’s car is looking a bit sad these days.

Martin (from “Sam, Interrupted”) will return in 8.09, “Citizen Fang.” He’s finally out of the hospital. I like Martin. Not so sure about the spoilers that he won’t be thrilled about Benny and may side with Sam on that against Dean, when they suspect Benny of some vampire-like murders in his town and Dean defends him. It could be good conflict and it could also suck. So to speak. Ty Olsson has been tweeting a good bit about Benny and it sounds as though there will be plenty of the character this season. I know. I’m shocked, too. [/sarcasm]

8.11 will involve a guy who’s a bit too into a “medieval-style game.” I roll my eyes and brace myself for yet more medievalesque nonsense along the lines of “Like a Virgin”‘s dragons.

Ad Age has an article up about Supernatural‘s escape from Fridays. The show’s ad rates continue to be low ($35,123 dollars), but the move definitely reflects increased confidence and expectations from the network.

Finally, the ratings for “Heartache” remained high with the same demo of 1.0/3 from last week and a slight drop to 2.13 million in audience. Meanwhile, its lead-in, Arrow, kept its 1.3/4 from its first week and picked up a full season order as a result.

We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm and Supernatural.

If you like these spoilers, please help continue our site by making a donation, buying one of our fiction issues, or buying one of our books: Fraterfamilias, Historical Lovecraft, Future Lovecraft, and our Gothic horror anthology, Candle in the Attic Window. You can also buy Paula’s non-fiction book on medieval Spanish history, Templar Convivencia.


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IFPTV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 10/24/12

78 Comments on “TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 10/24/12”

  1. shamangrrl

    I know it’s just episode descriptions, but there seem to be a lot of filler episodes coming up. The only ones I’m excited about are 8×05 and 8×07. I also liked Martin, but based on the write-up for 8×09, I’m not thrilled. Of course, I’ll wait and see, but I’m not waiting with bated breath.

    I really want more of the Purgatory backstory for Dean. And I’d actually like some interesting backstory for Sam. The way Sam is being written and portrayed is annoying, and I’d like to get more information so I can decide whether to write the story off completely or not. And did I hear something about Frank coming back? Really? How about inventing some *new* characters to continue with the series? What’s up with all these uninteresting old holdovers, or (as with tonight) dead characters we couldn’t give a damn about (and if we do, too bad. They’re already dead).

    Whatever. I’m still excited about Dean, Purgatory, Benny and Castiel.

    1. MeMeMe

      I had a similar thought reading this, for me a lot of the spoilers past ep 5 are not remotely exiting or enticing. Obviously the episodes may be better than they sound, fingers crossed.

  2. Ginger

    I pretty much agree with your view on the upcoming episodes, Paula.

    I really liked Martin, and I’m glad to see him return to the show. He and Dean had a good relationship, so I don’t know what to think about him teaming up against Dean. We’ll see.

    I’m not even going to talk about Garth, except to say that I’m disappointed that Carver is continuing with this stupid character — or characters if Frank and Charlie should return. I want no reminders of SG’s pathetic view of this show and I certainly think Carver should and could come up with something better than Garth.
    But we do have mama’s boy Kevin and his mother this season, so maybe he can’t.

    I confess that my opinion of Carver has slipped about halfway down the ladder these days. It’s a damned good thing Jensen is on this show and that there is the expectation that we will see more of Dean and Benny.

    I’ll watch tonight, but realistically, this one comes from Adam Glass. It can’t be much.

  3. castiel'scat

    Thanks paula.
    I thinks it’s interesting that Carver has really taken the hard road in season 8. By that I mean that the two most anticipated outcomes of the season 7 finale have not come to pass. Sam did not save Dean and castiel and Dean did not spend their time in purgatory bonding. Then Carver twists the knife in regarding expectations. Not only does Sam not save Dean, he doesn’t even try. He replaces his family with a dog like he did as a child, his happiest heavenly moment via DSOTM. Not only do Dean and castiel not bond in purgatory, castiel abandons Dean and hides from him and Dean leaves purgatory without him.
    I know most of the hand wringing has been regarding Sam but all three have been written in unexpected ways. Maybe the important point for Carver is where the three characters end up and not so much where they have been. Of course I expect to see more purgatory, I am referring more to the divisive aspects of seasons 1-7. Here we think Sam thinks of Sam first and Dean has been robbed of a story. Over there they want Dean to do horrible things because the only way Sam will look good is in comparison to a Dean that does worse. Depending on where you look cas is a tool for Dean, a dick, a sidekick, a beloved character. So maybe Carver is planning to shock us out of these notions and reset the trio as three complex, flawed, heroic characters that will ultimately do more good than anything else.
    I am jonesing for blood brothers and the cas episodes but Bitten sounds pretty cool to me. We will get to see the brothers within the found footage which is a neutral POV. This may be very illuminating. I am unfamiliar with the comparative film you mention paula. Is it found footage or a werewolf tale? I actually thought that cannibal Holocaust was the first found footage movie (I don’t recommend it). Aside from chronicle, I thought Home Movie used the both the ff and classic horror genres very well.

  4. Ginger

    Sorry, but I forgot to bring up one point that has been bugging me. It has not escaped my attention that Cas dumped Dean in Purgatory without a word and under the excuse of ‘protecting’ him from the Leviathian. This is nothing different than Sam not bothering to find out where Dean was under the excuse of he had no idea where Dean was or even if he was alive. In fact, I think it’s worse than Sam, because Cas could have at least said, “We have to separate,” before winging out and he had no idea whether Dean could or would survive that first night, let alone for a whole year, on his own.

    The point I’m making is, because we have been told that Dean feels guilty about, but doesn’t remember, leaving Cas in Purgatory, he is very protective of him. This, once again, gives the appearance of dumping on Dean. I may be premature in my reasoning, but I’m getting pissed off with Dean dumping. I was hoping that was something Carver would discontinue, too.

    Carina MacKenzie with Zap2It has an interview up with Jared where he explains why Sam didn’t look for Dean. It’s actually a good interview by Jared, if you overlook Carina’s gushing Sam fangirling. Here’s the link:

    1. Cassieo

      Listened to that interview and yeah, the fangirling was sick but I didn’t really think JP had much to say about Sam than we already knew and all of that really isn’t true. Sam had plenty of people he could turn too, all mentioned on this site before, and he could also have done one of his ‘location’ spells to find where Dean was. He also has all the spells to summon Crowley if he wanted too. He has done it before!

      She did a better interview with JA, but no spoilers at all. He does talk a lot about his directing episode this year though.

  5. Cassieo

    Thanks Paula. For a change I have seen all those spoilers. YAY! Usually I’m way behind.

    As for tonight’s episode, have to wait and see how it works out. “Weekend at Bobby’s” was very Dean’nSam lite and it was very good. Course Jim Beaver is a superb actor that can carry an episode, or series, on his on. These three are very new to acting.

    As for Martin’s return, I have always liked Jon Greis, and if Martin is the same as in 2010, it could be fun. If they let Sam use him to betray Dean again, I will be very disappointed in Carver.

    Being as Sam didn’t even bother to care or worry about his brother at all and now is acting like he doesn’t even want to be in the same car with him, I really don’t think he as any right to judge who Dean hangs with. At least Benny helped Dean in Purgatory no matter how bad he was then or now while Sam did nothing. So for me, it’s none of Sam’s business. Ditto with him recruiting Cass to spy on Dean too. If this is Carvers idea of correcting Sam’s problems, he is way off base.

    All the episodes till after November sweeps will be fillers. We won’t see much of any worth until the mid-season finale. Funny, wasn’t it Carver who said he doesn’t like wasting episodes and then have to cram a whole season’s arc into a few. Wonder if he ever writes down what he says. LOL

    Don’t don’t know if you’ve seen Carina’s latest Sam honorarium. She swoons over him while JP says nothing new about when he will get his act together, or even *if* he will get his act together, so, for me, it was a waste of video film to watch. Until Sam gets with the program, he is in no interest in the show for me. He did say that Sam will not be going off to college, though he didn’t say why.

    I will be at Chicon this weekend, so if I hear any spoilers I can post them here if it’s okay with you.

    Hope to read your next review soon.

  6. castiel'scat

    I think we will find that MOTW without any ties to the mytharc will relate to character development. Heartache did.

  7. shamangrrl

    I tried, but I just can’t watch anymore of thie episode. It’s horrible.

    You guys will let me know if I missed something, right?


  8. Cassieo

    OMG. This is horrible. The camera jumping around is making me motion sick! I can’t watch it any more. Need LOOOOONG commercials

  9. Cassieo

    The filming was HORRIBLE! I made it to the end, but only because of the commercials. I can’t deal with that. That’s what turned me off from “River.” It gives me a headache and it stirs up my motion sickness. Didn’t like that at all. That is one that I will NEVER re-watch.

    I really feel sorry for those three actors. They were so thrilled to be on the series and then to get that episode…so sad. They really did a good job, but on Twitter the comments were mainly negative. And the bulk of the complains was the jumping camera. Who was that director? Gees…didn’t he know he was overdoing it?
    Did they have to do that so much? And who films everything they do?

    Really I can’t believe Carver okay-ed that. The ending…really I thought was could just drop the ‘Amy’ issue but it keeps coming up over and over. At least this time the boys agreed. Dean especially was very pensive about it. Guess he was thinking of Benny at that point. She does deserve a chance to see if she can work out a life and she was billed as a recurring character, so I guess will see her again.

    Next week Benny is back and yes, he’s a veggie vamp so another monster that is trying to work out his problems. Seems he’s not such a bad guy after all…if the promo it true. Dean should just give him the cure and end his problems.

    I’m sure the rest of you faired better with the cameras. Maybe you have a better perspective of this one.

      1. Cassieo

        Okay. I really had trouble watching it. My head is starting to clear. Yes…the characters were terrible. As for the acting, this is one where you can’t blame the actor.actresses with how horrible the script and directing was so. Adam Glass out did himself this time. Really was Carver having a mental break down when he okayed this?

        Anyway here’s the promo for next week. I’m thinking this was the only good part of the hour.

  10. castiel'scat

    I really enjoyed the episode. It sucked me in and whoa Dean was looking mighty fine, even double fisting the burgers (still think there has to be a clue there).
    I do not think Sam got that Dean had already made the decision to give her a chance before he even spoke. And I did not need to see the trailer for next week to know Benny is not feeding on humans.
    Our neutral POV tells us that the brotherly bond is highly dysfunctional, and they are relating to each other as life partners not brothers. I don’t think it is going to go back to its former status quo.
    The other thing that stands out to me is Dean’s new philosophy ; I think it has to be more than knowing Benny. At least it hints to Dean strongly relating to weregirl’s point of view.
    There was also a hint that weregirl could become a hunter. Interesting situation considering Benny is hunting in the next episode.
    Finally Sam is going to look pretty hypocritical if he slams Dean about Benny next week after cutting weregirl some slack. It is not as if werewolves are more able than vampires to resist the urge. In fact I would think it was much harder for werewolves since they seem to kill based on their human reaction to people; ie. Anger, jealousy, competition. Besides Sam knows full well a number of non killing vamps, including his brother who avoided feeding. Finally knowing Dean and his moral code as well as he must, any monster that Dean vouches for must practically be a saint unless proven otherwise.
    I have to point out again that we had another monster ripping out and chowing on hearts. The question is, does this heart motif carry beyond the obvious metaphors and provide literal clues to one of the central mysteries.
    Also did anyone see the new castiel spoilers that indicate castiel has a “new” ability to put people in others heads. So paula may get lots of head people!
    Week 3 of Arrow and more shirtless exercise interludes. Puts me in a good place …

    1. Cassieo

      Didn’t the moving cameras bother you?

      Dean was fine as always. And yes..he is eating enough to make up for his year of no burgers. Sam needs to shave. That shadow paired with the hair was too much. I’d rather have the sideburns back.

      And I’m not sure what Dean was thinking at the end when he was so pensive, but based on Dean’s moral code, he of course wouldn’t hunt her. She hadn’t killed any human and the only monster she killed was really bad. I fine it interesting that Sam was going after her and then changed when he saw Dean thinking. Don’t know what that is supposed to mean, but anything Sam doesn’t have to hunt is fine with him.

      I didn’t see that new spoiler but I would appreciate a post.

  11. Ginger

    I was bored out of my mind for the first 15 minutes. I really couldn’t understand anything that was said because I was distracted by the jumping camera. Entirely too much of that and exceedingly distracting.

    About 30 minutes into the episode, I became interested. I liked the different take on a werewolf, and there were some twists that I didn’t see coming.

    I didn’t care for the ending at all. Perhaps because my head hurt from being hit with Benny anvils repeatedly, or maybe because I’ve had it with sympathetic monsters, or maybe because she reminded me of Lucky the dog. I didn’t know the actress was billed as recurring. Does this show really have to adopt every damned supporting actor into the Winchester family?

    Once again, the Winchesters were made to look stupid in favor of the support cast. They don’t notice they are being filmed for a couple of days non-stop? Sam isn’t such a computer geek after all — that is Charlie and Brian. And Dean must have left his spidey senses in Purgatory, I guess. One thing I did like was Growly Dean. I like Growly Dean. Small pleasures, I guess, in an episode that I won’t be watching again (and I absolutely loved Ghostfacers).

    And no, castiel’s cat. I haven’t seen the spoilers about Castiel’s new ability, but then I don’t read Misha interviews. I forgot Arrow was on, and I was going to give it another chance this week (didn’t like it last week).

  12. castiel'scat

    Misha Collins talks about Castiel’s post-Purgatory … Examttp:// misha-collins-on-castiel-s-post-purgator y-supernatural-life

    I hope the links work… I have a hard time copying links with my phone.

    Camera doesn’t bother me. I loved the River. Sure not all of the episodes were great but wow, towards the end…

    Okay… I did not love the acting of the kids. They were normal dumb kids. I did not see them as smarter than the Winchesters. I rather enjoyed the way Dean and Sam would pop up. Dean and Sam were trying to investigate, obviously in between a lot of brotherly angst carrying over from the last car conversation. Sam is rusty and dean was preoccupied. It would have been nice for them to catch dean doing some intense interrogating. The girl was kind of boring, especially to be reoccurring; couldn’t they have gotten the spit-fire from the canceled teen witch show?

    I guess I was willing to cut it some slack because they were trying something outside the box. Found footage rarely works well. I say this as someone that has seen a lot. It’s hard enough to establish characters that we care about using conventional story telling tricks. In a way I prefer this to tiger mommy- kevin and that auction really annoyed me after that premiere.
    Also Dean was the smart one. They were following the body trail. Why would they notice average kids in a crowd of them? Missing channing was a bigger oversight in my book.
    I felt it gave me a lot of information about the brothers, which I have already touched on.

    1. Cassieo

      Thanks. The link has a space that shouldn’t be there, but I got it to work. It should be: if anyone is interested.

      It was interesting to see hear that Cas; powers are diminished after he get’s out of Purgatory but they do come back, plus his new ability which I can’t imagine what he would do with that. Wonder if he means he can swap bodies with other angels or demons or remove angels or demons from their hosts. Guess we’ll have to wait to see how this will work and what benefit it will have for the mytharc.

      Also noticed he said ‘others’ will try to *align* themselves with Cas, not *manipulate* Cas. Maybe ‘manipulation’ was a wrong word they used before. Still is all post-Purgatory so apparently Benny isn’t a part of that.

      He also did confirm that Cas and Sam will interact, but not how much or what they interact about. If Cas is feeling he needs to redeem himself for betraying Dean then I can’t see him doing anything like spying on Dean for Sam. I really hope Cas doesn’t betray Dean a second time. Whether Cas likes Benny or not, Benny helped Dean in Purgatory while Cas abandoned him and the reason doesn’t matter. He was not there for Dean and Benny was. So Cas also has no right to judge Dean regarding Benny. Benny is none of Cas’ business either.

      Sam will betray Dean again, that’s already known, but I hope Cas doesn’t help him. To be honest, I am liking Carver less and less and it’s only been 4 eppies.

      As for the boys angst, I read it as Dean is still pissed at Sam for not even trying to look for Dean, abandoning Kevin, and letting people die cause Sam was a selfish jerk. That is not supposed to change for a while and that’s good. Sam has it coming. And Sam is rusty and Dean did not strike me as pre-occupied at all…just hunting a monster with Sam bitching the whole time. I’d be annoyed at that myself.

      And yes, right now the boys are not brothers at all, just traveling companions at best.(Though why Dean would ever trust Sam to have his back right now is totally illogical especially when Dean just came from a ‘war zone’ and knows first hand how important it is to be able to count on your partner.)

      Anyway that is what we are supposed to see…again because of what Sam did. We are supposed to see Sam redeem himself and win Dean’s trust back so they can be brothers again, but from the hint of more betrayal on Sam’s part, I’m wondering if that is what Carver is doing at all. Sam redeeming himself and winning his brothers trust and love back, would show maturity in the character as well as some growth. (That would also help Dean decide how he wants Benny to fit into the picture now.) More betrayal is no different then Sam has done for the past 7 year…also no maturity and no growth.

      If Sam is trying to redeem himself, it would explain Sam’s about face re: going after Kate. He first thought of hunting her because he assumed Dean would want to, and then quickly changed his tune when he saw Dean’s pensive mood….even mouthing Dean’s own philosophy from last season.. i.e. if they haven’t killed an innocent, the boys leave them alone.

      Whichever or whatever it is, they need to decide which and get on with it. Either Sam wants to be with his brother in the family business or he doesn’t. And Benny is none of Sam’s business for reasons which I have stated before. Really they need to stop with the subtlety and start defining what it is they are doing. To me, this just seems like another stall in the series to waste time.

      1. Ginger

        I am of the opinion that Carver has no intention of Cas redeeming himself for betraying Dean. I think the object is that Cas is trying to redeem himself for all the mistakes he made — teaming up with Crowley for power, arrogance, killing all his angel brothers and sisters, mass murdering humans, playing God, as well as betraying the Winchesters. He’ll also be the tool to introduce the new angels, and how much of a role they have in the season, I don’t know.

        I also don’t think it is Carver’s idea that Sam needs redeeming. I think the object is for Sam to find out he is a hunter, or maybe that he cannot have a ‘normal life’ anymore than Dean could.

        I also don’t think Dean’s PTSD is the story. Actually, I think we’ve pretty much seen that part of the story, other than Dean being more of a hardened hunter than he has ever been in the past(fits in with the ‘maturity’ theme this year). Rather, I think Dean is going to come to terms with his dark side — the idea that all he is is a ‘killer’…or something like that. Who the hell knows after these past two episodes.

        Obviously, Carver is of the opinion that all characters, one offs, recurring, previouslies, as well as the Winchesters should be fully developed characters…or maybe it is just more interesting to him and the other writers to write characters other than the Sam and Dean. I would mind that, if the characters are interesting. I do find Benny interesting, but not Kevin, Mommy, these teenagers, or Garth. I did like Martin, but I can’t address him yet, because we don’t know how it will be depicted.

        I’m sure we’ll get to the real Sam and Dean story eventually, but I can’t help but feel this episode was the totally wasted 23rd episode, just like Time for a Wedding last year. Why spend money on an extra season episode, if that extra one is wasted on support charactters?

        I am getting a strong feeling that the Winchesters have become boring characters for these writers to write. We know that we’ve got two Benny episodes coming up, a couple of Cas ones, Amelia has to be developed somewhere along the line (or why else is she in the season). We know that we have Garth and Kevin and Mommy coming up, and something has to be done to further Crowley as a big evil (because he’s just a snarky bad guy right now).

        Yeah, I’m getting more disappointed, but I am looking forward to next week. That one will have more Dean/Benny stuff.

        1. Cassieo

          Sorry, I didn’t mean to give the impression that Dean was the only thing Cas wanted redemption for. Yes, he has a lot to make up for, but his friendship with Dean has always been depicted as important to both Dean and Cas and as Dean is one of the main leads, it would be imperative for Cas to get along with him…and for Dean to accept him back into the hunters group. So yes, he has to make peace with Dean also.

          Cas made if very apparent lest season that was an issue for him. So him now going against Dean about Benny with Sam, is not a good way to go about it. Now we don’t know that is what Cas and Sam have in mind, but it is what most assume and if Carver goes that route, he is NOT developing or maturing any characters. Characters grow and mature when the accept responsibility for their actions and *learn* from them…i.e. they don’t keep repeating the same mistake over and over.

          As far as new characters, they need to return the old dependable ones before they try creating new ones. Ones that are already accepted by the fans. Otherwise they are just spinning their wheels in the dark and end up with Kevins, Mama Trans, and Kates.
          I’ll reserve judgement on Martin when I see how they handle him. I liked him in 2010, but that doesn’t mean they won’t destroy him this season.

      2. Kay

        “Castiel and Sam will grow somewhat closer (Big whoop. They always promise this and never deliver).”

        While TVOvermind came out and said this (without mentioning Dean and Cas at ALL), the actual video footage of Misha discussing this in the LAExaminer video didn’t really say this. Obviously Cas will not have interacted at all with Sam before he gets out of Purgatory. Once he is hunting with the Winchesters, of course there will be scenes of Cas with both Sam and Dean together and separately. I wouldn’t yet assume that Cas and Sam will grow close together, but perhaps they will grow CLOSER than they have been in the past couple of seasons. Especially if the end game beyond this season is to have all three of them hunting as part of Team Free Will.

  13. castiel'scat

    Is anyone else wondering why we are getting all of these episodes focusing on the monsters point of view:
    Heartache. Bitten. Blood brothers. Citizen fang.

    1. Cassieo

      It’s not something new for me. It goes all the way back to Madison, the werewolf love of Sam. Bitten just seems a re-hash of Heart but this time the wolf lived and is, like Madison, trying to not be a monster.

      It was a trait of season 1 and for me just another point to show they are repeating the season. Benny as a veggie vamp is another repeat from an earlier season “Bloodlust” i.e.Lenora and her gang. I really don’t think it had any purpose other than that.

    2. Ann Emmess

      On IMDB, someone brought up that all of this extra monster action may go towards Carver getting rid of the demons completely.

      I don’t think that’s quite it — I think closing Hell will be the series finale — but it’s an intriguing thought.

      What I notice is that we are developing a much larger character class of monsters who successfully go without killing. SPN has always been very, very harsh with its standards on that. That’s why very few fans put together that Dean has literally never killed a monster who didn’t kill — there have only ever been five or six in all of the show. (Half of them were cute kids and babies, which makes it harder to put together.) The Rugaru, for instance dearly wanted to live without killing, but SPN provoked him to the point where that was impossible. Madison didn’t want to kill, but she had to die because she had to kill. Lenore went 200 years without killing, but they still put her down at her request when Eve corrupted her. Etc. Really impossible standards.

      But I think that one place Carver is clearly going, is opening up a much wider scope of monsters who can companionably interact with the guys as something other than vicious prey. Benny, obviously. Kate may show up again. Oh, hell — isn’t Dean supposed to get a love interest this year? That better not be Kate, but I’m sure it won’t be. However, I’m also certain that Dean’s love interest can’t be human (because Dean is so far from human) and that means she would have to be one of these new get-along-with monsters.

      Before this ep, we knew that vampires could coexist with humans. We also knew that werewolves COULD NOT. Ironclad canon. Now that canon is overturned. We have only ever met murderous shapeshifters, but from what we have learned their urge to kill may be made, not born. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we meet a good one of them, too. Dean let the skinwalker go out of mercy because he protected his family above himself and left peaceably. There could definitely be skinwalkers who do live within a loving family.

      So, that’s what I think is going on. Changing things up for more recurring characters with powers who are not demons and angels, since those character types are almost completely tapped out. When Crowley goes, what else can they possibly do with demons? It’s unlikely that the new angels will completely revitalize their stories and still be angels. So I think we’re going to see more good and morally indifferent yet non-killing monsters.

  14. AFriendOfAFriend

    Okay. Watched the epi. Can’t understand all the fangirling about it on tumblr. I watched it. I think it was okay. The only reason why I “liked” it was all the subtext, in which I founf my personal theory THAT THE HEART PLAYS AND IMPORTANT PART THIS SEASON only gotten stronger. (I talked about it on here before I think, the HEART and perception of letting go and partial Benny possession.) If that wouldn’t have been the case I probably would have thrown up, because I think the acting was pretty underwhelming.

    Anyway, there were a few lines that def need to be “discussed” or thought about. One being: “Hit the books and feed the monster.” I think that one said far more than the obvious nod to have dinner.

    Also, the spoilers regarding Cas and his new ability, ties in nicely with my own theory of what went down in purgatory, what changed Dean and why he might have or might not have let go of Cas at the same time. It also ties in pretty nicely with perception and inception, which this new ability sure sounds like inception.

    Here’s my theory on that:

    The way I see it we will not only get all the amazing things that deal with PERCEPTION but literally INCEPTION (Cas can put people into other people’s heads) as well.
    That goes to follow at some point there would be EXTRACTION as well, right?

    I get that this is a little far fetched in speculation, but some details could fit. In short:

    PERCEPTION: Dean doesn’t know what happened when Cas (in his opinion) “let go” of his hand while it seems (to the viewer) like Dean (Benny taking over) was the one letting go. This leads nicely to

    INCEPTION: Benny manipulated/clouded Dean’s memory of that event. He inserted a false “perception” of what went down. Maybe consciously, maybe without wanting it, because maybe that’s how it works when you take a monster soul inside of you. I actually think the action alone: Dean taking Benny counts as “inception” in my book. Dean embracing his inner monster as well as Benny as a “person”.
    So, this inception thing – at least in the movie is closely connected with the last part, which is

    EXTRACTION: in a way this already happened. Namely, when Dean cut Benny out of his forearm. This makes one monster leave his body, but not the “mental” one he embraced in purgatory. I could imagine that this will also be a story for Dean in season 8, letting go of this inner monster or at least integrate this part of his personality in a healthy manner.

    And then I want to comment on the seemingly large number of “filler” episodes. 8×03 wasn’t a filler episode at all and neither was 8×04 (even though it was Winchester light) There was tons of subtext that tells you a whole lot about what might be going on or lying ahead of Dean, so if those “filler” episodes continue to be that way I have no problem with them at all, because they really ren’t filler but character development.

    As for one special upcoming episode, where I feared it might be an episode where Charlie makes a comeback (*throws up* I hated her), I atcually think this could also be a pretty amazing episode, because I realized now which movie they are referencing in the title. I kind of only recognized it since I watched said movie yesterday and couldn’t shake the feeling of being “reminded” of themes within SPN in season 8 so far.

    So. This movie – if they just slighty things reference it – then this episode will be a killer and all about loss and perception and mental stability and what is normal and what is insane and what is happening only inside your head and what it means “letting go” and ALL the feels.

    The movie I’m talking about is “LARS AND THE REAL GIRL”. Are you getting the hint? There is an upcoming episode on SPN that’s called “LARP AND THE REAL GIRL”. Oh god… I can’t dive into theorizing right now and I also won’t have much time to formulate a theory or pose some questions or speculate what we might get in that episode right now, but if you read a recap of the movie r something you might get ideas of your own. It’s not a widely known film I guess, more an independent movie, but Ryan Gosling stars in it and he’s basically amazing in every single movie I ever saw him in and this one is no difference.

    1. castiel'scat

      FRIEND, as always I agree with a lot of what you say and really enjoy thinking about the rest.
      I knew the reference was Lars and the real girl. I haven’t seen it yet. With SG the titles might have no thematic connection to events. I think Carver is probably more thoughtful. Of course I can see Charlie larping as well as Becky. I will move sweet Ryan to the top of my Netflix queue… then we can talk! By the way did you see Drive. He was awesome in that … loved it.
      At any rate I agree that the MOTW episodes have been hitting character issues hard, and that is what I enjoyed about both. And of course I noticed HEARTS, HEARTLESS, HEART RIPPING …
      Did I not call it last week? I am so intrigued about the continued first person monster viewpoint. In this episode we heard it through their eyes even. Dean was so affected … it has to be more than friendship with Benny right? Do you think it’s because he and Benny shared everything during their shared body days? I feel that blood brothers and tension with Sam is going to show Dean being very loyal to Benny. I missed the line about feeding the monster… sound was all over the place in this episode. I really want to know the extent of the changes in Dean. Obviously he was human enough to use the portal.
      Frankly I hated inception ; I also gated memento. But I take your point. I think that both cas and Dean have been manipulated regarding memories. Maybe Benny too. The manipulation may be separate from the false allies for cas (presume angels). What entity could manipulate an angels perception and behavior. I am thinking something is in cas and Dean saw it before he let go because he was scared.
      Humans and angels do not belong in purgatory. Who knows what being there does. Who knows if there is something there worse than Leviathan. I know more crazy talk.
      But yes, all the head action could be very interesting. I can’t imagine how this might play out.
      I do think that the show will fundamentally change in 9-10. The brotherly bond is dysfunctional. It’s Canon now.

  15. Lily

    This episode was so out there. Nothing like Ghostfacers, which I was not a big fan of either. I hadn’t read anything about the episode so I was confused at first,which turned into a huge annoyance. I found Dean’s attitude a bit strange since I know he believes a monster is a monster, but this whole Benny thing and purgatory has clearly changed him. I’m not really sure where this season is going, but I hope it picks up soon. Right now I’m only finding bits and pieces to hold on to which I hope will change. Thanks for the spoiler Paula

  16. Ginger

    I gave the episode a quick pass through again this morning. My vote is cast officially as probably the worst episode of SPN ever.

    I think this little ‘experiment’ was a huge mistake for the show. New night, good lead in, and if I were to have tuned into this for the first time, I’d never be back. I also think this episode will mean lower viewership for 8.05, which is supposed to a strong episode and one I’m looking forward to.

    1. Deenort

      The camera work didn’t bother me that much, although I’m not in love with shaky camera work and who carries cameras around with them all the time? But what a bunch of idiots! “I’m a golden god”, indeed. I was hoping that they’d all disappear by the middle of the episode. Unfortunately, I didn’t catch the last couple of minutes, so I didn’t realise that the girl made it out. Groan! I’ve no desire to see her again. Also, I kept waiting for Dean & Sam to catch the students when they were secretly filming them. It just seems like the kind of thing that Dean, especially, would notice.
      I’m all for shows trying something different, but this did not work. There must have been a better way they could have made the parallels to Benny that involved Sam & Dean appearing for more than a few minutes.

  17. Laurie

    It sounds to me as though Carver is injecting some Being Human into SPN as an excuse to keep writing that monster style morality.

    I can get behind it for a character or two, like Benny, Lenore, Cas and Crowley when he’s working for the boys, but I don’t like retconning an entire 8 years of SPN so we can get a monster Hunter mash up aka Being Human. I don’t watch for ethical dilemmas.

    1. Cassieo

      For me monster style morality is not new. It was used a lot in the earlier season as I mentioned in my previous post. We aren’t used to seeing it because of the mess EK and SG made of the series the last 4 years. But Carver is recycling back to s1 with some things and more into the monsters was something they did then. I have no problem with that if it’s done right, but clearly some of the writing staff needs more direction in that area. This is something Carver is usually good at, so I have to wonder what happened with “Bitten.” Is he leading the writers ot is it someone else? I was under the impression that he was also still working on BH, and if so, that would explain some of the errors that are slipping pass him

  18. Cassieo

    The titles for episodes 8.12 are out. 8.12 is “Out Of Time“ air January 23, 2013 and 8.13 is called “Everyone Hates.” No air date was given for it.

  19. castiel'scat

    I think they are hitting the monster pov really hard. It seems to me to be more to it than a callback to s1 (where monsters were nasty not sympathetic) or 2 (where sympathetic monsters were used as tools for Sam’s mytharc development, and to show Sam as the nice one. I also can’t help but think that Carver’s reasons for doing this extend beyond developing a new character like Benny or his involvement in being human. I mean despite owing Benny, Dean just spent a year slaughtering monsters. Logic would dictate he would be more inclined to shoot first, question later. Unless Benny is a very very important person to Dean, I think we are being shown that Dean has reacted to purgatory in a surprising way for personal reasons. I think there is a lot we don’t know. There is so much exposition to Benny’s story that this hammering seems unnecessary. So color me curious.
    And again, there are plenty of monsters that don’t emphasize hearts. Combined with ep2 dialogue: heart, blood, family, bloodlines… this is all being emphasized.
    This goes beyond liking monsters. This is subtext. Color me curious again.
    Finally, I don’t think the plan is to repair the brothers relationship. Having a neutral pov observing the brothers was not an excuse for stupid gay jokes; it was an opportunity to show that going back to the dysfunctional brotherly bond days of yore is really not an option. Part of having them each mature is for the relationship to fundamentally change. We have seen that Sam’s behavior in the year off confounded Dean. Next week we get to see Sam confounded, and trailers suggest Sam will handle his emotions poorly… and continue to clash with Dean over Benny if the spoilers for Citizen Fang are true. Personally I don’t understand the discussion that Dean was such a hypocrite last night. Clearly they are setting Sam up to be the hypocrite if he has problems with Benny considering how he is always willing to let pretty lady monsters go free. I am also a bit intrigued by how Sam and Martin were buddies all if a sudden. Wasn’t Dean the one pushing the hunt in Sam interrupted, because of family obligations? It makes me think that Sam and Martin may have had a lot if time to bond during Sam’s year off… hmmm…

    1. Cassieo

      According to the spoilers that were given over the summer, the brothers relationship is supposed to be repaired, at the same time Sam is supposed to mature so that the bond can be repaired. That is the main reason the showrunner was replaced. She kept them apart and that’s not what fans want. I can’t see how Dean could ever accept Sam back, but as they are still hunting together, I’m guessing that is still the main directive for the series.

      As for Dean as a hypocrite that could have only come from a Sam site, cause they are the only ones who want to see Dean as the problem. It must be hard for them to see Sam for what he real is with no subtlety about it this time. Maybe that part of the show has not been made clear enough for them! Course, the will deny Sam’s faults no matter how much the show brings them to light. I can see them still trying to defend him, but they are really going to have to reach for it now. Of course, I for one, am not sure the special snowflake is really dead yet. I can’t see how Sam can ever be exonerate for what he has done, but I still remember that SG was the only one that left and more than her supported Sam’s special snowflake status.

    2. AFriendOfAFriend

      Agreeing with you. 🙂 I think there is a lot more to all those little nods. Can’t help but think that maybe I wasn’t wrong with the assumption that the HEART will play an important part this season or it some kind of key this element back wehn we got the first overall season 8 promo sometime in august. Remember when I saw that stylized heart in the end? Well, I think now there is def substance to that assumption with the focus on “ripping out hearts”, “eating hearts”, “losing your heart”, “acting heartless” or “having too much heart” or your “heart always was in the right place”.

      No one can convince me otherwise. 😛

      I also personally think that Carver is doing a really amazing job so far. All the episodes add up and lead to something. I wasn’t a big fan of the kids this week but if you ingore that you’ve got tons of intersting subtext and I personally cannot understand how so many are pissed off about Carver. All I’ve seen so far is intersting character development, a cool new character, brother conflicts, PURGATOY and Cas. Sorry, but I love all of it.

      And the CHCH promo is killer! So much better than the one from the CW. DEANNNNNN and his AXE. 🙂 And Benny. And CAAAAS. 3 times badass in purgatory! Also I love the sneak peek. I love when the brothers so openly clash and I couldn’t help but think that Sam was also tha pissed off because he honestly really thought – well up until now it kind of was like that – personal??? Dean you have no personal life that doesn’t revolve around me. LOL. Sammy, your brother has changed, deal with it like a grwon up. LOL.

      Also, it was kind of the same when he called Dean out on eating two burgers. WTF?! Is Dean really eating for two thought? Feeding himself and his inner monster (“feed the monster” was a pretty obivous direction at himself) or is he having a second burger for his best friend Cas, who loved Burgers as well. And in my personal headcnaon btw not because of his vessel but because of Dean.

      Can’t wait for next weeks episode. I need more purgatory. I need more benny interaction. I need more brutal/badass Dean. 🙂

      1. Lani


        Thank you so much for pointing out the subtext, especially in last week’s episode when I was bored to death within ten minutes. Love, love, love what you see and it makes me so very excited! Especially for this week’s episode. 😀 More Purgatory! Dean!!! Benny!!! Cas!!!

        Also, I agree with you and everyone else that in the the sneak peak it was very satisfying to see Dean tell Sam off. It reminded me of the moment in “The Mentalist” from last season (one of the very select few episodes I’ve re-watched the whole way through) when Dean called Sam out on his behavior. I’m all for more of that! Maybe Sam will finally buy a clue and mature.

  20. Ginger

    It looks like Carver has something for everyone during sweeps week. The CW released it’s Nov sweeps schedule and the line-up for SPN is:

    It looks like Carver is throwing the kitchen sink at the November sweeps this year. After this one comes a little of everyone:

    Oct 31: “Blood Brothers”: Sam meets Benny and at least one Purgatory flashback with Cas.

    Nov. 7th: “Southern Comfort” with Garth and an avenging ghost.

    Nov. 14th: “A Little Slice of Kevin”: Kevin and Mommy made a demon bomb to use against Crowley and Cas returns.

    Nov. 21: Thanksgiving week – No SPN.

    Info from:

  21. crowley_gal

    I’ve been looking forward to Blood Brother since we first got the spoilers for it. I really want to know more about Benny.

    The preview clip was great and I loved Dean putting Sam in his place.

    1. Ginger

      I’ve been looking forward to this one, too, along with Citizen Kane.

      I think the writers are setting Dean up for a fall with lines like, “I’m the one with the mojo…” But, on my, I do like DickDean.

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        Despite really disliking “Bitten,” I’m fine with the idea of there being “good” monsters. I think both Kripke and Gamble flagrantly cheated by giving us “sympathetic” monsters who couldn’t control themselves and had to be put down, smarmy demons who complained about “racism” whenever the brothers didn’t fall for their lies and manipulation, Sam’s mechanical and external storylines that always let him off the hook, and the insistence that Dean was “human” when he was clearly a denizen of the supernatural world. Is the changeover to *some* monsters being “nice” abrupt? Yeah. But it’s a new showrunner and he didn’t have a chance to do this before.

        I think “new” Dean (who is basically an older version of season one Dean) is hilarious and spot-on. The “Did you have a stroke?” speech was both mean and funny, and Ackles seems to be having boatloads of fun. In story terms, I also think it works a lot better for Dean to push back hard whenever Sam is being pissy, the way he did in season one. Dean always caving in and/or being wrong compared to Sammy Stu was a bad habit the writers fell into. It was boring. Let’s hope they won’t do it again.

        1. Cassieo

          I was SOOOOOO happy when I heard Dean tell Sam off! I loved when he didn’t tell Sam squat and just left him standing there. I hope it continues but, if the synopsis is true, it doesn’t. It seems Dean gets in over his head and has to call Sam for help. Seems the writers forgot that Dean spent a whole year in Purgatory and never needed Sam once. Now he’s back on earth and can’t seem to hunt without him.

          I’m assuming they did this to get a reason to have Benny and Sam meet, but did they have to egrade Dean in the process? I could think of many ways to introduce Benny to Sam without taking any macho away from Dean. Yeah….shades of SG!

          1. Paula R. Stiles

            You’re sweating a *synopsis*? How many times has this show portrayed an episode as Samcentric or Pro-Sam, when it turned out the opposite? How about “Heartache”?

          2. Cassieo

            Yeah.. your right. I hope that is bad writing on CW’s part.

            It’s just been sooooo good to see the old Dean back. Been waiting for 4 yrs and now that he’s here, I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. Legacy of EK and SG. I just don’t trust showrunners

          3. Paula R. Stiles

            I hear ya. If it helps, so far, Carver’s worked out pretty much the way I expected him to. His one real weakness is that he tends to have flabby, experimental second acts of his seasons. The good news is that some of those experiments work out really well, while others are just slow burners building up to a killer multi-episode season ender. And the rest tend to be quietly dropped.

        2. Ginger

          Let’s hope this ‘new’ Dean, this DickDean that I like, is Carver’s idea of ‘mature’ Dean and that he sticks around. If this Dean is going to be the permanent Dean (prayer circle), it will be interesting to see how Carver changes Sam to react to Dean or if Sam remains Pissy Sam for humor’s sake. Boy howdy, I can see the boards filled with ‘mean Dean’ while you and I laugh our heads off because I, too, think scenes like this, where Sam is left speechless in the middle of his tizzy fit, are hilarious.

          I’ll have to wait and see what happens and how it happens before I voice an opinion on the ‘good monsters’ comment. If Carver wants to expand the cast and leaves Benny ‘good’ so he can be recurring, then I’m on-board with that. Benny is an interesting, believeable, mature, well-acted character that fits nicely into the SPNverse. I am not okay with Garth, who is an idiot and shouldn’t be alive.

          I’m really excited about Martin coming back. I liked his character in Sam, Interrupted, and I really liked his and Dean’s scenes together. I’m curious to see what Carver does with him in the upcoming episode. If he remains a believeable character, I’d be okay with him sticking around as a hunter. I thought Jon Gries did an excellent job with Martin’s character.

          I’m surprised that there has been no word yet on Rick Worthy coming back this season. I wouldn’t mind seeing the alpha vamp again.

          All obnoxious teenagers, though, can go away. I was disappointed to see that Kevin and Mommy didn’t blow themselves up with their demon bomb in the 8.09 stills.

          Oh, and yes — more Dean welding sweet Purgatory. Purgatory can stay.

  22. castiel'scat

    Okay… poor wording on my part. What I mean is that the relationship isn’t going to be repaired/restored to status quo. It is going to change/metamorphose into something new and mature. I really love that Dean is laying his feelings out there now and Sam is…in or out… yup… Sam looks like is about to have a stroke.
    Dean was pretty coddly with Sam in 1- he was always complimenting Sam on his smarts and hunt skills, like a generous mentor wanting to build confidence. I imagine Dean has never told Sam exactly how he feels except for the random angsty outburst. Dean is hammering in how he feels and unequivocal that Sam doesn’t need to know everything. I am dying for next week.

    FRIEND!!!!! I Totally spaced about the beating heart!!!! Kinda funny since I ran away with it oh so long ago.
    Yes yes yes! So much with hearts. So much with Dean’s eating, CHANGE of HEART, and his uberDEANness. My heart cannot take much more…

  23. Ginger

    One thing I noticed in Bitten was that Robbie Thompson made comment on Dean saying ‘awesome.’ He did the same thing in Time After Time when Eliot Ness and Ezra commented on Dean using that word. I thought that was a cute touch.

    One other thing I liked…and this will drive Paula crazy….but I liked the ‘office relationship’ comments. I’m sorry, Paula, but I find those funny (still love Crowley’s “…care for a fag and a chat” line. I’ve got several gay/lesbian friends that I’ve known for years, and no one makes funnier gay jokes than they do.

    Ha! I deserve a gold star. I found two good things to say about Bitten.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      My main problem with the gay jokes is that they’ve become increasingly West Coast and unrealistic. By this, I mean that I live in the Bible Belt and in the more homophobic areas of the country, they simply would not immediately say, “These guys are partners and close friends. They must be gay.” They’d never see that and they would be offended by anyone making that connection *because* they would see it as just two partners or even twig right off that they were brothers. Which makes it that much more ludicrous to have everybody and his idiot brother making these jokes in every region of the country, especially when Sam and Dean are brothers, have grown up together (which gives them a perfectly legitimate reason to live in each other’s back pockets), and *aren’t* sexually interested.

      Homophobia is like sexism and racism. The most common form is where the person simply acts as if “those” people are invisible when not specifically brought to his/her attention–out of sight, out of mind.

      1. Ginger

        I live in the Deep South, too, and you’re right. They are more likely to tell you about the history of Jimmy Ray’s illness than acknowledge something like homosexuality or dare discuss it. I don’t even remember where Bitten was supposed to have taken place, but I don’t think it was in the South.

        I have noticed, though, that the whole show has taken a turn to the West Coast tone and reconciled myself to the loss of ‘rural back roads of America’ show that I started with. We’re now into more big cities, Rufus’ cabin is looks like a stage set agains a GCI forest, more upscale diners, more current cultural jokes, more political references, totally FBI suit costumes, less rock music, no dump bars that I can even recall recently, no blues playing in the background, no pool tables. The writers are writing in a setting they have zero experience with and, apparently, don’t care to learn.

        I hope Carvers second act isn’t any slower or flabbier or experimental as Bitten was.

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          I’m pretty sure “Bitten” wasn’t set in the South, either. But there have been other places where characters have assumed the brothers were gay and I was like, “Huh?” The staff at the hotel in “Playthings” especially stand out. My grandparents were from Connecticut (where that episode is set) and that culture? Nobody would assume two guys together were gay unless they were really stereotypical. It’s just not the first thing that leaps to mind in most places unless you’re fitting certain definitions of what they consider effeminacy. And neither brother fits those definitions.

          I’m pretty sure we’ve had a recent honkytonk bar. I think it was 8.03.

          There was also quite a lot of rock in the season premiere. I believe it was three songs.

          1. Ginger

            I do agree with you about the gay jokes in this particular episode. I do find them funny as a general rule and I smiled at them in this episode, but they were out of place here. This whole season has clearly established that Sam and Dean are most definitely NOT a committed couple, so they become just another thing wrong with this episode.

            To Sam, Dean represents everything he does not want. Sam found true happiness (or so he thinks) for the first time in his life while Dean was MIA, and he has put Dean on notice that as soon as this case is over, he’s leaving Dean.

            Sam leaving Dean is Dean’s worst nightmare (S1 Devil’s Trap), so Dean’s not going to think or talk about it. Yeah, his hurt is slipping out in the little jabs he’s taking at Sam, but Dean’s not going to deal with it until something forces him to, or knocks him upside his pretty little head.

            Spending a lunch hour talking about their year apart enough to make teenagers who don’t know them at all think they are an item (as stated in this episode)? I’m not buying that happened. Robbie Thompson screwed this whole episode up on every level and Carver let him get by with it.

      2. Ann Emmess

        @ Paula: “Homophobia is like sexism and racism. The most common form is where the person simply acts as if “those” people are invisible when not specifically brought to his/her attention.”

        That is an outstanding characterization of a phenomenon I have seen but couldn’t put my finger on. I haven’t lived directly in that environment for a long time, but I still come across it online a lot, against many groups. I totally agree that it makes a lot of the remarks about the guys read extremely false. There’s a level of reality about any sort of difference, what it’s like to live with it and how other people would react to it, that Supernatural has never been able to penetrate. Not the worst show for it, not the best.

        The “those people” attitude online — especially when someone throws it around in a direct reply to one of those alien people while pretending they’re not there — makes my jaw drop and my blood boil, because it’s so outstandingly rude and dehumanizing while barely lifting a finger. I always wonder if the people who take it that far understand how monstrous they’re being, or if they somehow think it’s non-confrontational. I think it’s used as a passive-aggressive distancing technique and a way to circle the wagons (“unfortunately you’re here, but if we pretend you’re not and tear apart “those people”, then hopefully you’ll get the message and go away.”)

        I also think the writers now show more than a little “those people” attitude towards rural, blue collar, conservative nowadays, which always makes me wonder who was steering the Good Ship Rural Blue Collar before. I assume Kripke, but as we’ve discussed before I also wonder if Kim Manners was involved — it’s clearly someone who’s gone now. The writers keep up the trappings now, but something important about the spirit got lost along the way.

        1. castiel'scat

          Can you elaborate on what you have seen. I have been popping by imbd this season and was pretty surprised by the rage that Dean might have been closeted because of his upbringing and/or his relationship with castiel has opened for him the possibility of a romantic relationship with a man. The show has left Dean’s sexuality open as soon as the profound bond was introduced – through dialogue, staging and most important to me, the actor’s performances. I think season 7 ‘s performance by JA is best understood by seeing him as absolutely heart broken.
          For me the gay jokes within the show only work if they convey some subtext. I usually hate the jokes about the brothers except for the wincest slash references and in Bitten because I think it emphasized that the brotherly relationship has to change to be workable. Brothers that are work partners shouldn’t be perceived as a couple with extended third party observation.
          I usually think any comments about Castiel/Dean work within the show on many levels. They underscore the strength of their profound bond. They emphasize that the bond is obvious to any and all observers as well as its uniqueness. And of course they hint at it’s fundamental passion whether it speaks to a human’s response to a heavenly entity or Dean’s human response to the humanized Castiel.
          As badass as Dean is he fulfilled a feminine role within his family and is extraordinarily caring of others in general for a violent character. Even post-purgatory he is caring for Benny and tried to console Kevin more than once, albeit roughly.

          1. MeMeMe

            The thing is I don’t think they would be thought of as a couple in real life, most of this is a nod and a wink to slash fans and nothing more.

        2. Ann Emmess

          I think the outcry you saw is pretty on-point with anything else I’ve seen. Same song, different verse. That was an exceptionally fierce discussion, though.

          When it comes to arguing whether Dean, say, could be gay, there’s a contingent who believe that it’s important to be hyper-vigilant to protect his straightness, especially since admitting to even one questionable experience would make the character at least bi, and then it’s all over. That’s where the absolute refusal to acknowledge ambiguity in the text comes from, I think. IME you mainly get this attitude from people in cultural majorities, because if you’re in a cultural minority you can’t enforce this attitude anyway.

          This isn’t my area, but the entire academic practice of “queering the text” exists because scholars began to read supposedly straight texts in more ambiguous ways, questioning the assumptions of straightness and other cultural-majority projections. My experience as a slash reader seems similar. From my point of view, I don’t care if the writers assume that Dean is straight. There’s no perfect TRVTH about a fictional character’s life. What’s more, the writers are certainly dedicated to muddying the waters there themselves, and even if all the gay jokes are written from a frat-boy mindset it’s still there for anyone else to interpret, play with, buy into.

          Plus there are the deeper, probably unconsidered issues like Dean canonically taking on his mother’s role after her death. Ty Olsson says Dean and Benny’s relationship “goes to a deeper level most people don’t experience in their lives.” Does that make “the real Dean” queer? No. But there is no “real Dean”, so it’s not that much of a victory. Does it mean a queer reading of his character is possible? More so than for many characters, which is why he’s so popular for it.

          The cultural policing attitude seems to be that if enough people will say that a queer reading is wrong, it will be proven wrong to the world and go away like bad science. For me, I have to smile at this because no one else can own my interpretation any more than I can own theirs.

          The “those people” phenomenon is not the same thing. I truly can’t imagine behaving this way, yet people who otherwise seem to be decent will do it, so I assume there’s more going on with it than I can understand. Maybe a difference in beliefs about the right way to shun people.

          The phenomenon looks exactly like this, issue changed to protect the guilty:
          A: I enjoy talking about Sam, and I’m doing it right now.
          B, in direct reply to A: OMG I hate people who talk about Sam! I wish those people would just disappear and go take their nasty Sam talk to their own nasty places!

          I don’t know what to make of it. It’s as if B is not able, or willing, to take on board the understanding that “those people” are in the room, in the conversation. I find it incredibly ugly, but also deeply strange.

          1. castiel'scat

            Sigh… I remember reading in the NYT years ago about the tendency to be liberal having a genetic component. Not liberal as in politics per se, but liberal in thinking. The article didn’t explain the concept very well and truly I forget what the scientific basis was. However I thought about it a lot, and focused on the “us” and “them” mindset. I can see being open with differences in others having some basis in genetics. Look at religious fanatics for instance, they do not represent the religion, they represent a narrow and aggressively protective subset that will happily resort to violence for minor infractions against accepted doctrine. They throw out universal moral code against murder to punish an infraction against their personal beliefs, because they cannot tolerate anyone acting or thinking differently than they do.

            Yeah. Funny analogy! I abhor Sam. I still try to understand him which is why I read other sites and viewpoints. My problem remains, and often I like the character less because his fans seem to often rewrite Canon to make Sam look better (domestic dean was sam’s last wish/dean looked for sam/dean was not out of contact/dean was hunting/dean was not happy with normal/Dean was the only one that cared about Sam’s soul and died to get it back!!!) and fervently wish for Dean to really mess up. I mean seriously! How does Benny being more evil than Lucifer and Ruby combined make Sam look good? How does Sam killing Benny make up for Amy? Amy was killing and it didn’t matter to Dean that she was killing bad men (just like he didn’t care the prison ghost was offing inmates ); Sam is the one that comes off wrong any way you slice it and he killed FAMILY before she killed. But I try to see good in him and I tried to get s6-7.

            I fervently wish Sam would behave with nobility and think of others.

            I do this devils advocate thought process a lot. I did it with destial and changed my mind (maybe not surprising since I have handcars lot of gay close friends, men and women ). I did it in 2008 when I was surprised by how upset I was with hilary’s loss and worried I might be racist. I am not I think although black men can intimidate me because if a childhood sexual assault . Every doctor I have is black and I trust them with my life and well being. My whole life I have made sure to be friends with the lone foreign student in grade school and the one black girl (sadly) in high school was my best friend; I was really pissed to hear people referring to her as Oreo which makes no sense since she grew up exactly the way they did. Again I was lucky in that I had a black babysitter as an infant who cared for me all day long and I apparently preferred her to my mom who dropped out of her PhD tract as a result. So nurture is a big factor too, as always. But the tendency to what to understand the other perspective, and to accept differences is what might be genetically based. HA- I married a political opposite and once we stopped yelling (just me actually, half Italian and fiesty) it was interesting to find that he really believed pro-choice rhetoric was liberal semantics and not a passionate belief in a women’s fundamental rights. He is not sexist but he is Catholic and he does think that one can’t ignore life.

            I really surprised myself with destial since I came around 180 on my thinking (I am 100% on board). Jensen’s performance convinced me that he feels deep love. Moreso after the hug.. he had to tell cas he needed him, and he meant something to him regardless of whether it was safe to stand around yammering. And yeah the recent TO interviews are interesting because the wording he uses does suggest romantic pairings (third wheel?), and that he and castiel are in competition for Dean’s affections. He does seem to be in conflict with what he is… very interesting.
            Anyhow, I was really proud to “know” you and paula since you were both vocal in expressing the alternative viewpoint even if you don’t espouse it yourselves.

          2. Ann Emmess

            If you’re interested, take a look at writings on the “authoritarian mindset” vs. whatever term they use to oppose it. It’s related to but different than conservative/liberal. The idea is that authoritarians tend to feel most comfortable in a black and white world and nuance may distress them; I’m very much the opposite and always want more nuance and possibilities; rigid yes-or-no tends to freak me out. The two ways of thinking permeate everything. Really interesting stuff.

            You’ve been assimilated to Destiel! Hee. If you want to dip a toe in the fanfic pond, lemme know at emmessann, at yahoo dot c-o-m. I’ll hook you up. 🙂

            Outside of the slash hobby, I think it’s hard to see that that emotional connection like you’ve picked up is usually what gets a person started — that’s not really intuitively obvious. But I think it is so. I think that might be how the actors find themselves surprisingly okay with oddness from fans — they’re portraying love, and the fact that someone might look at them funny while they do it doesn’t stop them from feeling their craft the best they can.

  24. Kay

    A few spoilers came out so far from the Chicago Con.

    Misha is filming episode 10 till this Wednesday, (Oct. 31), but he is off for the rest of the year, and doesn’t know yet when he will be back to finish his arc. He should have at least 2 or 3 more episodes left to do, if not more. This will please fans who don’t like him. This also means that Cas being manipulated by angels, and that storyline must come to a head by Episode 10.

    DJ Qualls will be back in the new year to film a more mytharc episode, where we’ll find out some of his backstory. This will please those who like Garth and not please those who can’t stand him.

    Jared had a line in Episode 5 that he changed. Later, Singer made him record the original line during ADR. This is a line from Sam to a computer?

    Jensen was told to act in a different way by a new director and told that person that Dean wouldn’t act that way, that he, Jensen, is very familiar with Dean after 150+ episodes.

    No spoiler, but a Jared, Jensen, Misha wrestling in Jensen’s room during the Toronto con and ensuing Jensen’s rug burn story came out during this con and is pretty funny.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Ah, interesting. I wouldn’t sweat the lack of Castiel. They’re not writing that far ahead of the production and Collins just became a daddy. He’s probably just getting a little time off for that. I’m sure he’ll be back for more than a couple of episodes in the second half.

      Did anyone see the 8.07 promos? Looks like Kevin has the tablet back, and both he and Mama Tran look a bit chastened. It’s just Sam with them in the pics. I’m all for Dean throwing up his hands and leaving them to Sam. Let them all work out their bad character karma together.

      1. Lani

        Yep. Not sure what to make of em. Also, this part from the Huffington Post didn’t sit right: “Dean (Jensen Ackles) certainly seems concerned for his angelic buddy in the photos, but Collins also pointed out that the elder Winchester “doesn’t know the whole story [about what happened to Castiel in Purgatory], and I think that he also feels some guilt about what happened. And Dean deals with guilt in a very childish manner.””

        Uh huh…Dean has been feeling guilty about anything and everything for a long, long time. Why would this particular instance with Cas make Dean act childish? That just doesn’t sit right with me. Probably because it makes me immediately wary of Dean bashing, which I have a feeling will double hit Dean in this episode between Cas being back and whatever is going on with Sam at that point after he knows about Benny. =/

        1. Kay

          I’m not sweating the lack of Castiel at all. He is supposed to be in at least 8 episodes, so he’ll be back. Probably in more than 8. Plus he has a two-year-oldand a newborn, so he deserves time off. Anyway, Misha said that he is happy with how Cas is being written, consistently. Misha also explained in his Meet and Greet that Dean loves Cas (in a platonic way, obviously!!!) and that the writers and Jensen are pretty aware of this. I think this was to reassure fans who have been burnt by the past two seasons.

          Paula, the 8.07 pictures do show a somewhat chastened Kevin and Mom. I also wondered if Sam is the one to interact more with them. I think that would be quite okay, give Jared scenes to interact with their characters. There were a couple of lines in 8.02, where Sam seemed to “get them” and empathize with them, while Dean was preoccupied with a lot of stuff.

          Lani, I took the Dean acts out his guilt in a childish manner to mean that he becomes overprotective. That’s Dean’s trademark, overprotective of those he loves and taking all guilt to himself. Hasn’t he been like that with Sam always?

          Rachel Miner said that she hasn’t heard anything about Meg coming back yet.

    2. Ginger

      I don’t know how I feel about these spoilers. It sounds like someone (Carver maybe) is keeping tight control over what he wants and how it wants it to come off (i.e., having Jared change a line back to the original). It also sounds like Jensen has no qualm in throwing his weight around, at least with new directors. Interesting, from such a team player, or maybe it wasn’t a big deal.

      I’m sorry to see that Kevin and Mommy didn’t blow themselves up making the demon bomb.

      I’m sorry to hear that Garth is being given an even bigger part as a support character. Frankly, I don’t give a rat’s ass about Garth’s backstory.

      I have no worries that Misha won’t play a big part in the last half of the season.

      My enthusiasm for Carver’s showrunning continues to wane, but isn’t low enough to call him a failure yet. I was hoping he would have a remarkable season, but I guess I’m now expecting it to just be better than the SG years. I’m still reeling from the fact that he put up something as bad as Bitten and that it was put up so early in the season, and to hear that Garth is on the rise is disheartening.

      1. Kay

        “It sounds like someone (Carver maybe) is keeping tight control over what he wants and how it wants it to come off (i.e., having Jared change a line back to the original). It also sounds like Jensen has no qualm in throwing his weight around, at least with new directors. Interesting, from such a team player, or maybe it wasn’t a big deal.”

        It didn’t sound all that different from before, IMO. The writers have always kept a tight control over dialogue. Misha was discussing this at Comic Con 2012. Others have also said this in the past. The one notable time dialogue change was brought up was in 7.17, during the Cas-Dean “remembering” scene and how they conferred with Singer because they were laughing so hard trying to say the dialogue. Plus Jared’s changed dialogue was in an Edlund episode, and he may have felt that changing the dialogue took something away from the scene. It was Singer who asked Jared to record the original dialogue, so I don’t know if it’s Carver.

        As for Jensen “throwing his weight around”, I had a completely different take. It’s up to the actors to a large extent in reminding new directors (when the writers are far away in LA) to maintain continuity of character in a show over seven seasons long. I wish other actors would do this too, instead of just relying on the script page in front of them, what the director said, and then going home. Jensen has done this a lot in the past; he is very protective of his character. This is nothing new.

  25. Lani

    @Kay: “I took the Dean acts out his guilt in a childish manner to mean that he becomes overprotective. That’s Dean’s trademark, overprotective of those he loves and taking all guilt to himself. Hasn’t he been like that with Sam always?”

    You’re quite right! Why didn’t I think of that? Doh! Thanks for reminding me. I feel much better now. 🙂 And really can’t wait until the new episode! 😀

    Also, the Fangasm report from Jensen’s M&G in Chicago is up.

    Jensen is such a delight! I love the insight he gives fans into Dean’s character as well into the acting world and Jensen’s own experience.

  26. AFriendOfAFriend

    Frankly. This Garth spoiler makes me want to throw up. I was fine with never seeing him again, but including him in the myth arc even? Sorry, but no. Just no.

    Since I’ll never be able to like this, I’ll just ignore it and think about the interesting things and spoilers that came out of ChiCon and all the other great spoilers we got so far. 🙂

    Oh and @Lani: Glad I could infect you with some excitement via my readings of the episodes. 🙂

  27. AFriendOfAFriend

    Anyone in for new crazy speculations of mine? No? Gonna post them anyways, okay? 🙂

    Suddenly a wild scenario appears… Thoughts on Castiel and him being manipulated.

    What if Castiel being manipulated has something to do with Cas being unable to use certain angel powers of his – especially when it comes down to him helping the Winchesters? This would “fix” the problem of Cas being too powerful and the “easy solution” for Sam and Dean whenever they fail to do certain things. If he gets cut off when wanting to use his powers in regard to humans (especially the Winchesters) – ultimately acting in terms of “Free Will” – could be interpreted as Cas being “taught a lesson”/making him remember what an angel was supposed to be (which would also tie in nicely with the theme of self-discovery and self-realization/coming to terms with who/what you are, struggling with the truth and then embracing that new self (sort of enlightened) image to integrate it in your self in a healthy manner) and what they were “made” for. I have been thinking about this especially after looking at the promo pics for 8×07 – where it seems as if Castiel seemed to be quite exhausted after smiting whatever it is he seems to smite there (Maybe he needs longer to regenerate because of his stint in purgatory?), hurting and almost powerless – and reading the account of someone, who was able to catch SPN filming a scene involving Cas lying on the floor bleeding, the Winchesters worriedly asking him if he’s okay and the appearance of Samandriel/Alfie.

    Misha said that Cas overall had all his powers and also discovers new powers. Putting people in other people’s heads for example…

    Now this is another thought I’ve been having. If Cas has this ability. Either it’s something very unique or special and sets him further apart from all other angels (“Too much heart was always Castiel’s problem.”) OR since he only discovers he has that ability now (and doesn’t know all other angels had that ability all along and knew about him not knowing) making this the perfect tool for manipulation, doesn’t it? And it also provides the perfect tool to mess with Cas’ perception, which is a key element this season. I mean – Cas doesn’t remember how he escaped purgatory… Maybe that in fact has nothing to do with having some kind of amnesia (again) but has something to do with the angels using their powers (of putting people in other people’s head = inception) on Cas (who only just discovers this ability) and cloud his memories this way (and make him forget how he escaped purgatory = extraction) to get him back into their family? Wasn’t it said that Cas is gravitating towards home more this season? Which would be interesting to know in more than one way. What/Where is home for Castiel? Is it heaven? Is it earth? Is it being with Dean (and Sam)?
    We’ve been assuming that the angels will play a significant role in terms of manipulation all along, wouldn’t this scenario/theory fit perfect with that assumption?

    Also, I think this would fit nicely with what is going on with Sam and Dean as well. I mean them coming to terms with who they are (struggling with their darker side or whatever).

    So what could it be that each of the three of them has to realize about themselves in order to change or grow or re-integrate the surpressed parts/desires of their personality

    He came back with a sense of purpose (seemingly knowing who he is what he stands for) and embracing the dark side of his personality and brutality. He’s here to “drive down crazy street with his brother riding shotgun hunting things that go bump in the night”. He would need to ask himself at some point what is this sort of clarity worth when you realize that it’s turning you into a “monster”, one of the things you hunt?

    His struggle will probably be highlighted by his relationship and the realization about what/who Benny really is, showing Dean that he himself has become a “monster”.

    He is back with a sense of clarity as well. He knows he doesn’t want to hunt. He wants a normal life. Or at least that’s what he thinks right now. Maybe for him it is realizing that the normalcy he wants so badly in this apple pie life sort of way just isn’t for him either, but not with having something horrible happening to Amelia. I assume that Sam’s self realization will be about him finally coming to terms with that he is a hunter as well. He might not be like Dean, but he is a hunter and that is something he always struggled with. For Sam it would be the struggle between wanting a normal life/being a hunter and maybe finding a middle way that works for him. After all – especially this season – the lines between black and white have never been blurrier. If there is no ultimate white (the angels acted like douchebags on multiple occasions) there is also no ultimate black (Lenore, Benny, Dr. Vysiak, etc.) but really only a multitude of grey.

    For Cas it’s a little different, or at least it’s harder to make assumptions about his storyline because we haven’t seen him back topside. So we don’t know if he knows his purpose as well. But if he knows; what will it be? Warrior of god or angel with too much heart?
    Either way Cas sort of starts “fresh”, his mind is clean – especially the “how I escaped purgatory”-part.
    Now, since both Winchesters struggle with who they are/embracing their surpressed parts of personality, why wouldn’t Cas as well? His struggle will be the decision between heaven (the angels, who might manipulate him to make him come with them / Inception/Extraction/Mind Control) or earth (The Winchesters). Going back to what he was supposed to be (soldier of god) or what he chose to be out of Free Will (an angel with too much heart).

    1. castiel'scat

      I like your ideas between the three all learning to embrace or recognize an aspect (aspects ) of themselves that they previously have chosen to ignore or hide from. So with Dean, clearly he has embraced his darkside; he is feeding the monster. He embraces through his love of the hunt (killing, bloodshed and torture). He also literally embraces a monster through his relationship with Benny. So he has become a new type of hunter, one that embraces the grey and realizes that as a hunter he is not so different from many of the things he hunts. (This in itself is so interesting that think it has to be more than Benny…). Although these two truths are not necessarily mutually exclusive, they do make me think about his renewed purpose (for hunting? ) and clarity (regarding who deserves hunting?); if so then why is purgatory pure; how has he embraced the grey while missing the black and white. Per the premiere, once Dean has found the road (plan) he knows where he is going (what to do).
      In contrast, Sam seems lost. He drove aimlessly without map or plan, stopped by accident, and perhaps since nothing supernatural happened, believes he found peace in normal. He appears to resent Dean bringing the supernatural back. He will have to decide whether his purpose is hunting without a personal (demon blood, apocalyptic destiny, cleaning up TFW’s post-apocalyptic mess) stake in it. He will also have to learn to accept, respect and love Dean who is anti-normal. Clearly Benny will be a catalyst for changes in Sam.
      Cas in purgatory washing in the river terrified of the Leviathan that caused him to betray Dean, kill innocents and decimate the heavenly host. Was he afraid to hug Dean and love Dean because he fears losing his reason again. He did it all for Dean. Lets say angels are supposed to be purity of intent, purity of spirit. They weren’t monsters until humanity entered the picture. They slowly became corrupted by human emotions. Lucifer by pride of course. Uriel by wrath. Michael by vengeance. Zachariah by all three! Castiel by love.
      Castiel needs to acknowledge what he did and why. If he truly embraces his fear and understands it, he will choose Dean.

      Regarding perception and manipulation … and OK, inception. I think it has to be more simple. Samandiriel is the angel of imagination and visualization. Samandiriel is the angel who feels castiel’s problem is that he had too much heart. I sensed a little attitude about dean in their auction house exchange. If castiel is being manipulated, it makes sense that it would be him. Maybe he is trying to help castiel regain clarity and perspective. He thinks he’s lost his powers and bleeds. He feels weak, exhausted. He himself becomes able to play with perceptions- perhaps so he can feel what it’s like to be Dean. He is perhaps being shown what humanity is… and perhaps Dean will gain more knowledge of what it means to be angelic. The idea that all will learn their place and purpose. Of course I hope castiel choses Dean et al.
      These are my thoughts regarding possibilities that you bring up.
      We also learn that castiel thinks he has allies but they in fact are not. My guess is that someone wants castiel manipulated to stymie Dean. It may not be the same angel doing the manipulation. From s4-5 I learned that the angels at the top lie to those at the bottom if they think it will further their cause.
      Sooo excited for blood brothers!

    2. castiel'scat

      Ohhh… to add to our heart/monster quotes:

      “Once you have a human heart, it’s almost impossible to control the monster inside”-

      1. AFriendOfAFriend

        YES!!!! I bet there will be tons more throughout the season and no one can convince me otherwise that the heart is the key this season. 😛

        1. AFriendOfAFriend

          Obviously I meant no one can convince me that the the heart is NOT the key element this season.

  28. Ginger

    I can’t remember if it was mentioned that the People’s Choice Award nominations are open now. Supernatural is eligible for four categories:

    Favorite Network TV Drama: You have to vote for at least one that is listed, then under “other”, Supernatural can be added.

    Favorite Sci-Fi/Fantasy TV Show

    Favorite TV Dramatic Actor: Both Jared and Jensen are listed

    Favorite TV Fan Following: SPN Family is listed

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