TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/16/12

This entry is part 20 of 26 in the series Spoilers 2012: Part 1

TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/16/12

This week, we have spoilers for Once Upon a Time and Supernatural:

Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina

Well, the big finale has aired and they weren’t lying when they said it would change the face of the show next season! Now that magic is back, everyone has their memories, and they are still in Storybrooke, what will happen? Who will return, who will stay, who will leave? Since the show is on hiatus and Comic Con is still a couple of months away, I expect spoilers will be light for the show right now. But hopefully, in a few months, things will start trickling in!

In the meantime, ABC announced the show’s renewal (no surprise) as well as the fact that it will remain on Sunday nights at 8pm (PST).

TVLine has a little post-finale interview with Josh Dallas and Ginnifer Goodwin, where they talk about filming the reunion scene and whether or not their characters will really remember come next season (Hint: They will!).

And for the finale’s ratings, they went up, both in the demos from 3.0 to a 3.3, and in the overall viewers from 8.98 million to 9.66 million. Very nice for the finale and it ranked as the #1 show Sunday night.

Supernatural (Friday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

The Producer’s Preview for 7.22 arrived semi-late last Wednesday, as well as some late setpics. However, the 7.23 Producer Preview came out bright and early on Saturday night. Like the 7.21 Producer’s Preview, it is being narrated by Misha Collins. Rumours are a-flyin’ (Perhaps helped by vague teasing from EW and some speculative-y spoilers from the AE3Con last weekend, which should be taken with a grain of rocksalt, since the writers don’t come back until next week) that his restoration to the regular cast for the show on the CW site is a sign of his return in season eight. In addition, Collins gave an interview to CW Connect, one to USA Today, and one to Bing. There was also an interview with Osric Chau.

Also out, of course, are the CW promo, the usual Canadian promo, and an extra Canadian promo from Space, as well as a sneak peek and the official photos, and an Entertainment Weekly minireview that gives the episode an A- (I’ll be shocked if it’s that good. Happy but shocked – and wondering why they didn’t get their act together sooner). The minreview promises us a “satisfying…bloodbath”. I wish. While the show could use some housecleaning, I doubt they will kill off the characters I really want to see go (and no, I don’t mean Sam, Dean or Castiel). The CW promo is incoherent, but the others are pretty good, at least in terms of explaining what’s going on. I can’t say that what’s going on is all that hot, though. The sneak peek openly identifies the bone of the righteous mortal as some random nun. One could speculate there might be a twist on top of that. However, the bone being sharpened and used by Dean in the official photos looks like the same one in the sneak peek, so I’m guessing there will be no twist. The Impala returns, though.

Finally, ratings for “There Will Be Blood” remained steady in the demo at 0.7/2 and dropped a bit to 1.58 million in audience. This drop was likely due to a sports preemption in Chicago. Once again, the show was second to The Vampire Diaries on the network in the demo, though it lost out slightly in audience to Hart of Dixie‘s season finale. Also, the Live+7 ratings for “The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo” predictably rose from a 0.7 to 1.1, indicating that the stuntcasting of Felicia Day had no noticeable effect on the ratings at all.

We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm, and Supernatural.

About Paula R. Stiles

Paula is not at all paranoid about government conspiracies after six years in EMS, two years in Africa for the Peace Corps, a few summers with the Park Service, and ten years studying the Knights Templar. She's seen governments in action. They couldn't cover up a toy picnic table, let alone evidence of alien visitation. Writes about science for fun, history for money, and zombies for the company. You can read her sober-as-a-judge book about Templars in medieval Spain, Templar Convivencia, on Amazon. You can find her homepage at: http://thesnowleopard.net.

Paula R. StilesTV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/16/12

75 Comments on “TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/16/12”

  1. shamangrrl

    The first Canadian promo looked interesting, with Dean taking charge. Therefor, I assume that the single scene depicted in the promo will be it for Dean. All of the other clips look horrible. I hate to say it, but I’ll be sitting this one out.

    Sigh. I really hope Carver can pull something out of his hat for next season.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Ann Emmess
      Bobby in the car:
      We have a case from “Are You There, God? It’s Me, Dean Winchester” of ghosts in a car who move freely around. And yes, there is also an example in there of someone using an iron light fixture to dissipate a ghost, yet the two girl ghosts freely appear in and disappear from a car. Kripke didn’t catch it. Neither did Manners (who, it must be said, was probably not well by then). And yes, that episode was written by Gamble, though Kripke is on record as stating that he did not care about the continuity of ghost rules between episodes, even though others on the staff complained about the lack of consistency. Hence the rant about, “Can they hear the chanting in Hell?” from “Hollywood Babylon”. What they eventually ended up with was a sort of compromise, where there were rules, but sometimes, the older writers (coughKripkecoughGamble, especiallycoughcough) ignored them for dramatic effect.

      However, if you’re going to do it so repeatedly, and with major plot points hanging on the ghost’s alleged inability to do something in one scene and ability to do something three scenes later, even casual viewers are gonna notice and the plot won’t hang together (Things still need to make sense within your mini-horror story). And there’s really not much a director can do about that.

      Crowley’s summoning:
      Hey, I don’t make the rules. I just notice that this is something the writers did in the same damned episode. And no good writer violates his/her own canon within his/her own individual story.

      As for the lack of canon, secretly, every writer thinks like that. But the smarter and more experienced ones quickly learn that that’s a crappy way to work. I was about to say that working like that means you don’t get more jobs, but really, it’s more that you can’t break in working at that level. Once you do get in, while you usually still have to work your butt off, there are, sadly many niches and backwaters for a writer to settle down and stagnate.

      Also, the fact that most episode writers are coming in from the outside and *don’t* have an encyclopedic knowledge of the show is why there are show bibles, which this show has never had. But really, a lot of this stuff was so basic this week that the writers were violating their own canon, inside the episode itself, let alone what they themselves had written in other episodes.

      My impression of the Edgar storyline is that they needed to take down a Big Bad but not the Big Bad, to show they meant business, in the penultimate episode (kind of the way they took down Bela in 3.15 and Ava in 2.21). So, just like them, he’s gone. It’s possible that the Leviathans won’t all die this week (or even Dick, for that matter), but even if they do, Edgar can always reappear in a nightmare, at worst. Then again, we haven’t seen Ava and Bela recently, so….

      @castiel’scat
      One major thing in the story that has been completely ignored about Dean’s jacket is its colour. In the season one companion, there’s quite a long discussion about how Meg’s second and third appearances involve colourful jackets. The first is yellow, indicating her increasing evil. Then, it’s red, to show that she’s really evil. Note that in season five, when she returns, it’s completely black. The clothing of characters has significance on the show.

      Dean shows up with a red jacket out of nowhere, after an entire season of mental and emotional deterioration, and the showrunner subtext (such as it is) goes something like, “Well, Dad’s old jacket was brown and we had Lee wear a similar jacket a few episodes ago. We liked it, so we gave Dean one.”

      You know, God forbid we care about the little details, anymore.

      @shamangrrl
      Right now, my main hope for this storyline is that it will finally friggin’ end. Kill Dick, kill the Leviathans, and do some kind of dire cliffhanger result of that elimination. But just end your story.

      I have a really bad feeling that Gamble won’t even do that and Carver will be left with a big, unfinished mess to deal with early next season.

      1. anotherjoy

        “Dean shows up with a red jacket out of nowhere, after an entire season of mental and emotional deterioration, and the showrunner subtext (such as it is) goes something like, “Well, Dad’s old jacket was brown and we had Lee wear a similar jacket a few episodes ago. We liked it, so we gave Dean one.””

        I have to be honest, that jacket (combined with Dean’s hair) is pretty much the one good thing to come out of this episode. I know I should care where it came from, and in a better season I might be annoyed that I do not know, but such as this season is, I’ll just skip through the other scenes and focus on the jacket. It’ll all be over soon; just focus on the pretty jacket on the pretty, pretty man. :-D

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          In the interests of full disclosure, when Lee first showed up in “Adventures of Babysitting”, I spent a good deal of my concentration on thinking, “My Lord, Mr. Tracey, you look fine in that jacket!” Somebody in the production department must have noticed that and designed/bought a similar version for Dean to replace the much-mourned Leather Jacket of Saint John.

          Sadly, it probably means that if Tracey ever does return as Lee, we won’t see him in it.

          1. Lani

            Actually, from what I’ve heard and read, the leather jacket was a collaboration between the cloth design team and Jensen Ackles. He had a lot of input in how it looked etc. :)
            So while the writing team may be dolts and not have a reason for the jackets appearance, JA probably does and its appearances from here on out will probably reflect Dean’s mood and temperament. Or not, lol. I’m just hoping.

    2. Ann Emmess

      Two random thoughts as we trudge to the end:

      1) I was struck, last week, that the poor Dick Roman actor really got shafted. He’s from a soap? And fans from then say he was excellently scary?

      I could really see it last ep. That actor’s like Jim Carrey, meaning: his best strength as a performer is in his seamless transition from Father Knows Best to The Shining. (Fred MacMurray was also a champ at this, actually. He made the *best* cads. Look up The Apartment, everybody. (Did you know young Shirley MacLaine was ethereally adorable? Me neither.))

      We’ve all waited out Dick Roman’s persuasive politico mode *just* for the fun of his gonzo tear-your-throat-out mode. And I can see that physically, this actor is a champ. He’s got a whole series of facial tics mapped out — weird eye angles into the camera, stuff like that — to show a full, gradual mental decomposition.

      But the damn SPN team *forgot why they hired this guy* and gave him an entire season of playing the boring political side. I bet he’ll be outstanding this week. But he must be crushed that Dick Roman won’t leave the kind of mark he could have, with more of his best crazy face.

      (And he must not have the range to make political Dick interesting. But if they gave him more of what he does well, he could actually have been a fan favorite instead of Worst. Bossfight. Ever.)

      Thought Two:

      This is really random, but I was idly thinking about how much I like Edgar. And the Alpha Vamp. And Osiris. And Kevin. And the Shintoist Bus Boy. They weren’t all in great scripts or perfectly written, but the actors all gave memorable, widely-liked performances. (Osiris’s script wasn’t his fault.) I hope they try the con circuit.

      And I loved Rufus, one of the first widely fan-favorite PoC recurring characters (not to forget Gordon and Hendrickson.)

      It’s not parity, and I wish it was a lot more like parity, but unless I am forgetting a lot, this season has had the most diverse-and-memorable characters by far. Performances that all fit seamlessly into the SPN “quirky and endearing” aesthetic. (Rick Worthy alone fits it so well — the man’s like a living special effect.)

      And since I blame every general change for the worse on Sera Gamble even though I don’t know who does what, I’ll also credit her with this change for the better. She created Rufus and (like Death) I think she wrote most of his appearances. He’s hers. These other characters and stories were all under her watch.

      Changing the show this much is not an accident, it required some prodding to multiple departments, and I’m at a loss to think who else could be the tipping point. Unless my memory is really off, something good is happening here and I really want it to continue.

      oh, PS to Paula — I wanted to clarify my bet re: Edgar. I know he’s dead for the count now, certainly not back this week. But I think they created a fully intentional out so they can bring him back somehow, like Trickster-Into-Gabriel (yay!) or Nick-into-Hellucifer (boo!) because they do really like Benito the way they obviously liked Rick.

      Unfortunately, that attachment to the performer/performance rather than the character rarely goes well, with Grandpa Shady being the nadir because Mitch Pileggi is a cool dude.

      It generally goes better with the women, actually for sexist reasons — both Marys, Jody, and arguably Ellen are brought back more obviously for the needs of the plot (as in “we need to bring back a mom type”) than for love of the character/actress.

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        @Ann Emmess
        I’m not feelin’ Stuart. Nothing against him, but Evil Generic White Political Dude has been done a million times. This being an election year has not made dragging him out of mothballs any more original (especially since the writers lacked the cojones to tackle the fact that Romney is a Mormon and Obama is black, which is far more religious and racial diversity in a presidential election than we’ve ever had).

        Also, the teeth-gritting grin misses something in the Big Scary Sweepstakes.

        In all honesty, I don’t think this season has any more ethnic parity than the show has ever had, just slightly more Asian characters (Kevin and Sushi Guy should totally form their own Hunter team). If anything, there are fewer recurring women in the past two seasons (At least we’ve got Meg this season, as opposed to the male-dominated seasons five and six finales). As for memorable characters, eh, if you’re talking about Becky, she came from season five. This season has produced no Ellens (Lee has potential, but he needs more onscreen time to develop), no Gordons, no Rufuses, no Megs. The only possible exceptions were Eliot and his tailor, and they’re both dead in the show’s present.

  2. elena

    As much as I’m looking forward to this season being over and done with, I hate that things are winding down with a sort of anticlimactic whimper. Because even if Sera pulls a miracle out of her tush and ties everything together in a satisfyingly neat bow, it really can’t make up for all the missed opportunities and lost potential of the previous 22 episodes. Not to say they were all bad because they obviously weren’t. But taken as a whole, it just feels as if this season was fairly pointless. The Leviathans were a joke, the Butch and Sundance theme was never really explored, Dean’s suicidal depression has mysteriously vanished, Sam’s hallucinations arc did nothing for the character and I think Cas is on his 3rd out of 9 lives. Only Bobby had an actual storyline and as you said, Paula, it only served to deconstruct the character. Hurumph. I’m hoping that, if nothing else, the finale will lay the groundwork for a revitalized show in S8 and leave fans with something to talk about over the summer.

    The promos are pretty disjointed but put together with the photos, it does look like Dean is the one to confront Dick. I’m assuming something goes wrong and the bone won’t work or Dick is expecting Dean or killing Dick has unforeseen repercussions. I’m still crossing my fingers that whatever happens, Dean will play the pivotal role. I can’t see what any of the other Team Free Will members could suddenly do to kill Dick if Dean can’t with the magic bone. The only other scenario I could think of would be the Leviathan lore concerning Michael or Dick chomping on phoenix ash Dean.

    Some random thoughts….I’m curious why Dick kept Kevin around- could there have been more tablets with info the brothers don’t have? Maybe that’s why Sam sounds so upset as Kevin stands in the background during that quick promo scene. I also don’t know why Crowley says his blood is the key. I thought all the ingredients would be equally important. And I’m oddly amused by the thought of ex-diety-turned-pacifist Cas making sandwiches and washing dishes. Heh.

    I’m

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @elena
      Yeah, I can’t say I’m thrilled, either. I’m seeing talk from the usual KoolAid-drinkin’ suspects that this finale will be faaaaabulous and make up for any shortcomings in the season, but no season finale can do that. It’s an impossible expectation. And it’s even more impossible from what we got in 7.17. But yes, since I actually like the show, I would have strongly preferred that they had gotten their act together, however late (i.e. circa 7.20) instead of this mess we’ve got as we roar into the season finale.

      I agree that it does look in the promos that Dean will attack Dick alone (and since they’ve done this amazing plot twist a million times, already, yes, it’s very likely the bone won’t work), but the promos are frequently misleading. So, we’ll see.

      Yeah, I wonder about why Kevin is still alive, too, but I think it may well end up being more about Cute Character Syndrome than anything else. Look at the respective fates of Frank and Charlie. Don’t get me wrong–I like what Osric Chau’s done with the character, but Kevin’s survival even to this point is pretty unrealistic.

      I think Crowley’s being his usual legend in his own mind. This is a guy who sold his soul for a bigger dick, after all.

  3. Ginger

    “Right now, my main hope for this storyline is that it will finally friggin’ end. Kill Dick, kill the Leviathans, and do some kind of dire cliffhanger result of that elimination. But just end your story.

    I have a really bad feeling that Gamble won’t even do that and Carver will be left with a big, unfinished mess to deal with early next season.”

    This mirrors my feelings exactly. Just get the damned season over with, hold a farewell glad-you-are-gone party, and pray to St. Jude to give Carver all kinds of inspiration this summer.

    I somehow think there won’t be much to talk about between Sat and sometime in September; but, hey, I sure am looking forward to Paula’s retro reviews.

  4. Lily

    Hi Paula,
    You could always do a retro review of season 4 and 5. I bet you could come up with some interesting thoughts on your past recaps and where we are now in the storyline.

    Just a thought!
    Thanks for the spoilers!

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Lily
      I haven’t decided yet what I’m going to do. Two thirds of the season is filled up by new episodes, already, so I may just do tie-in reviews to fill the holes. I’ve still got a pile of tie-in stuff to wade through.

  5. Lani

    “Right now, my main hope for this storyline is that it will finally friggin’ end. Kill Dick, kill the Leviathans, and do some kind of dire cliffhanger result of that elimination. But just end your story.”

    Oh yes, please!! What is it you say? Salt and burn it already!

    I’ve been really disappointed with the last few episodes and their sloppiness, not to mention waste of characters and character arcs. Before these last couple I actually had hope for the season and especially for Dean’s story to go somewhere. Now, I just want the season to end so we can start fresh with Carver at the helm in the fall. I’m still clinging to the Dean goggles being passed around though in hopes of something for him in the finale, however foolish it may be to hope.

    Like Ginger and Lily, I’m really looking forward to your retro reviews this summer too, Paula. :)

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Lani
      Oh, did he? Was that something that came out of the Rome con?

      I bet he was likin’ Lee’s jacket, too. Of course, Ian Tracey can rock just about anything in leather. Mick Leary’s black leather jacket from Da Vinci’s Inquest is downright iconic.

      I would love it if they had Dean doing something similar with what they did with Meg in season one, where his clothing reflected an evolution in his character. I know that bts story immediately leaped to my mind when I first saw the pics of Dean in the jacket.

      As for the retro reviews, as you probably all know by now, I’ve reviewed based on theme and current storylines rather than favourites, so there are some goodies left for this summer. In fact, I’ve specifically reserved one fan favourite for the last one.

      Have you all heard the new rumour that SPN might be moving to Wednesdays?

      http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/story/2012-05-16/CW-fall- lineup/55029662/1

      1. Lani

        That’s the word.:) I went to LJ and asked around and someone kindly provided me with the link to a pod cast with Guy Bee where he talks about 7×22 and the leather jacket. Here’s the link: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/mediablvd/2012/05/12/winchester-radio-there-will-be-blood-wspecial-guest-guy-bee

        I haven’t listened yet, but the person I asked got a direct tweet from the Winchester radio people regarding Jensen having input in the jacket and it being custom made for him.

        “In fact, I’ve specifically reserved one fan favourite for the last one.” Awesome! :D Looking forward to it, though I’ll definitely be sad there aren’t any more.

        Hadn’t heard the rumor about SPN moving to Wednesdays. Not sure what I think of that yet. But SPN at 8, before Arrow? Nu uh. Don’t like that at all. 9 has always worked great for me.

  6. Laurie

    This season was torture. I still have hopes that the nun bone will fail for some reason, and Dean will end up somehow the key for righteous reasons, in some twist that surprises everyone.

    I offer this quote from a link in the Wiki Leviathan post:
    “In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong SWORD shall punish leviathan… and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.”

    Dean’s the “Michael Sword.” Such a perfect way to give Dean a small nod in the canon mytharc, utterly wasted. Whoever made these decisions, you suck, and the fans will think that, for as long as the show is remembered.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Lily
      We’re not going to get a Thursday slot again and anyway, when the show had it, Thursdays at 9pm were a death slot. So is Friday at 9pm.

      I’m a wee bit skeptical that they would stick SPN at 8pm and Arrow at 9pm. Seems to me that, traditionally, the reverse would work better.

  7. Ginger

    Teaming up with Green Arrow sounds like a good move, but I’m not too sure about using the show as a lead-in to Arrow. 8:00 is a busy time in my household during the school year — for me to watch live, my whole household schedule will have to change (somehow?) on Wednesdays, if that’s the case.

    It does seems it should be the other way around, but this move makes me even more curious about the J2s having renewed their contract.

    Doesn’t the 9:00 slot allow for more leeway for language and content, or does that not change until 10:00?

      1. Ginger

        Thank the gods. The kids won’t have to be tied to their beds on Wednesday nights, For any PC Internet or government monitors lurking out there — that’s a joke. The 1 and 5 year-old cooperates nicely with the 9:00 p.m. schedule.

    1. Cassieo

      Wednesdays is the only night all week that I can’t watch it live. Figures they would pick that night.

      I don’t know what will be opposite it yet or if all the networks have posted their fall lineups, but I can’t see how any show would affect SPN. Really it has had two of the worse slots on TV so far and mastered them both. And even it they stay at 1.7mil, .7/2 in the ratings, as long as they keep the #2 spot on CW, they will survive. In LA, JP said they expect to get a s9 as well if only a 13 episode final season. Guess they knew that before they hired Carver. Maybe they hope he can get them a 23 episode final s9.

      I’m guessing that’s why SG was eased out. CW just didn’t like the fan complaints and was hesitant about future seasons if she stayed at the helm. I was told she could have remained as a writer, but she decided to make a clean break. THANK GOD FOR THAT!!!! Maybe she can follow Kripke to his new show and help him ruin that one too.

      Don’t mind me, just a bad week and so depressed about Bobby. ARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH!

  8. Cassieo

    I’m late to the party this week, so if I repeat anything already said, I’m sorry.

    I am not expecting the finale to be good, but the promos look like Dean is the leader at the start. And he does get to drive the impala again. He carries the bone and leads the charge against Roman while Sam goes after Kevin…or so it appears. Seems Sam gets into trouble too and who knows who save him this time. Meg seems to be quite an ally from the promos and Crowley after has gives his blood just seems to vanish.

    As for Bobby, I think Paula you will get your wish. In a recent spoiler, it said the show would experience the “emotional departure of a beloved character.” that can only be Bobby. Collins isn’t going anywhere. Not with all the PR he had done for the series this spring. And Beaver has made no noise about his return next season. Yes, he could just be keeping his mouth shut, but Collins is right out there front and center with promos and LOTS of interviews, so I can see the writing on the wall. Really surprised too. Beaver was one actor JA really wanted to keep. Collins will be in s8 frequently. Whether he will be a regular remains to be seen.

    Will be interesting to see who kills Bobby. I’m guessing Gamble’s last jab at JA will be to have him kill Bobby, so the fans can rant on him all summer. Hopefully at least Dean gets Roman, but I’m guessing he falls by the way side again with that too. My guess it will be Sam…wouldn’t be surprised if he pops up a hero in the episode. And of course will look so sympathetic to everything about Bobby.

    On top of that, the whole season has fallen short for me. And with the last chance they have of pulling the season out of the fire left to Gamble, I think it is hopeless. Can’t for the life of me, figure out why she was allowed to write the finale. Was it just because she is the showrunner or because she it leaving? Either way…a bad choice indeed!

  9. Cassieo

    Sad it’s it? A couple of people replied to a tweet of the promo saying the thought it was inappropriate of Gamble to write that, not just because of the disrespect it shows BUT because she is a woman and should be more respectful of her sex. Believe it or not, people replied that they liked the comment, saw noting wrong with it, they would miss Gamble and hoped Carver continued it.

    I think I’m living on another planet.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      The Wednesday night slot is probably the best possible one after the Thursday night slot (and this way, Ginger won’t have to tie her kids to the bed and risk getting reported to DSS). It just wasn’t in the network’s best interests to keep the show on Fridays. Plus, as other networks putting Fringe and Grimm there, even that slot wasn’t especially stable in terms of possible conditions and competition. Better to move it where it can get lots of promotion and a great lead-in with a fresh audience. I think that’s as clear a signal as the network can possibly send that it wants the show to continue well past season eight, ratings permitting.

      As for the Sera Gamble apologists, yeah, they exist, though they’ve largely been drowned out at this point by all the cheering that she’s gone and Carver is coming on board. They’re probably the same folks who used to blather about “In Kripke We Trust.” I was totally for giving Gamble a chance when she first started, but after two seasons, I think we’re beyond that. It’s time to assess and evaluate, and come to the conclusion that a change is needed.

      Either way, a woman just shouldn’t be writing Dean talking about boning nuns. It’s kind of facepalm-y that, on the one hand, she’s writing drippy Destiel and on the other, she seems to be trying to overcompensate with groin-scratching grunting and misogyny. And this stuff always seems to be given to Dean.

      I don’t know why you’re ragging on Carver, though. There’s no evidence so far that he had any input into the season finale, let alone at the level of dialogue.

      I think the separation part really depends on how it turns out. If it puts Dean into a brand new situation with someone who isn’t Sam, I’m okay with that. Also, it may be a way to let Padalecki have some extra time off for the baby.

      1. Cassieo

        I think it is definitely so JP can have more time off. That’s why he’s hoping they go that way. Hence I don’t get the character deaths. Those actors/characters can fill in for Sam when he gone. I don’t see any need to have the boys anti each other again. I guess I just never expected Carver to go that route.

        With a new night and the need for good ratings, why rehash an old plot especially when it’s one the fans hated. That seems like suicide to me.

        But I especially like your idea of Dean working with some one besides Sam. Amen to that.. Don’t see why Sam needs to be in every episode anyway. Not unless they fix his character big time.

        So sad I can’t watch the series live on Wednesday. Don’t see how I can change my schedule either. Darn! Guess I always be late to the party now.

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          Well, for one thing, Carver didn’t go that route. Gamble did. These deaths are occurring in the season finale.

          For another, not all characters generate more storyline. They can be a drag on the plot, instead, if they’ve run out of steam (Exhibit A: the Campbells). I think most sensible fans are bracing for Bobby going to the Great Beyond, seeing as how he’s already dead and rapidly turning into an MOTW. Meg might not make it, but I’m kind of leaning toward Crowley biting it. Meg has been around since near the beginning. And killing Crowley would involve a huge shakeup in Hell, with Meg either becoming Queen of Hell immediately or sparking a civil war. Either way, it’s more drama than Meg dying and Crowley not dying.

          Not sure if Kevin is going to make it, but it’s not as though he’s been around for very long.

  10. castiel'scat

    I think we may be surprised by events. I interpreted Jp’s comments to mean the boys are physically separated at the finale’s end. Maybe someone gets transported to a different dimension … or one of the boys “dies”.

    I expect the nun’s bone not to work. That line sounds awful. I understand someone like Abel ferrara to sexualize a nun for shock value and to establish the terrible societal milieu for ‘The bad lieutenant ‘. I do not understand joking about it. Bad behavior for a women and an out Jew. I guess that’s Dean’s line.

    I am sorry casseio that Bobby is a favorite of yours. It must be awful to see what has been done to him. Ghost Bobby has to die. Possession is bad. Ghost Bobby is not Bobby. I feel certain Bobby will be back. Once cas is OK he is likely guilty enough to fix things.

    My out there prediction for tomorrow – besides Dean saving the day because he is special in so many ways (Phoenix blood, righteous man, .Michael’s sword, Michael’s true vessel, servant of heaven biggest noblest badass on the planet)- this will happen! My out there prediction is that we lose Crowley because he is Gabriel. I know I said this a while back and everyone was too nice to say I am nuts.

    Yeah… Sam’s dumb because of the occasional Burger and Dean is pretty smart in comparison despite burgers everyday. Unless friend is right about dean’s alcohol abuse immunizing him… that makes no sense. I think maybe ja is a master at keeping Dean consistent despite the script.

    I admire Ann emmess for finding the positive although I disagree with her because the good characters were largely diminished by the writing and the great stunt was largely ruined by poor writing.

    Rufus is great. Died for stupid reasons in a stupid episode. If you are going to riff of carpenter’s thing, do it right (example: s1 x-files ICE)! Sheriff mills is also good and underused. For goodness sake the woman has first hand Levi near death experience and survived because of Bobby. She would want to help.

    Mitch pileggi was wasted as was the entire Campbell line. No going back there now. A man all about family would not have treated Dean like that.

    Michael Hogan was great and could have been another season long asset. The man’s acting in bsg is on par with ja. Amazing.

    Marsters is definitely as good as ja. He blew me away as spike. Show wasted him.

    Jewel staite… wasted. Nicholas Lea was good. Jason doehner OK.

    Yes sushi chef and morgue attendant from slice girls were awesome.

    I think I liked qualls and day so much because they managed to create complete characters despite the writing.

    I think my main issue is that the stunt casting, and the genre veneers sg applied do not correct for the poor writing, the lack of a cohesive story and the nonexistent stories for the main characters. I recognize now that Sam’s boring, nonsensical and endless souless/hellpain story was designed to convince those errant Dean girls that he is the bestest and suffered sooo much to save the world. Deans story is a failed relationship, physical and mental abuse 5by loved ones, loss, substance abuse and depression. Sure Dean has always been dark but it seems that these two seasons were cobbled together to show us that he is deficient and weak. Of course ja’s acting transcends this dreck.

    Did sg and ek agree to forever dump on Dean. Or did sg have an axe to grind. I cannot believe anyone thought it would help the show to treat a main character like this. Whatever the reasoning these weird choices to go against any development for either character have contributed to the truly abysmal storytelling in my opinion.

  11. Cassieo

    Yea, the Campbells couldn’t carry a toad let alone an episode, at least not the Campbells TPTB had. But beloved characters like Bobby and Cass could…and did really. I know you don’t like this Bobby, but he used to be very good and the old Bobby can always come back with Carver. Weekend at Bobby’s was very well received and the boys worked about 2 days total for that. Ditto for Deaths Door. And a Bobby/Cass episode would work too. That way the main leads could have more time off and not be shown as being against each other again. Really Beaver and Collins are the only two actors who have a big enough following to carry an episode or two a year. That’s why I don’t understand the deaths of either or both of them.

    As for Meg, Kevin or Crowley, I just don’t see them as ‘beloved’ maybe somewhat fan favs, but they don’t have the following the other two do. I liked Crowley better when he first appeared, but now he doesn’t hold the mystic he once had. I guess killing him could count and others have thought that too, but really the whole hell/heaven plot is old and another civil war? Really? I hoped for something new. Although Meg as Queen of Hell would give Dean a run for his money. They are a lot alike.

    Besides they have been hinting at a ‘something, something’ between Cass and Meg for 2 yrs now. That would seem to be a plot for s8.

    And I think it’s bad to kill a favorite character, like Bobby, bring him back for the fans, only to kill him off again. Really if they wanted him gone, kill him and be done with it. Why bring him back to kill him over again. That is mean and as a Bobby fan, I would have preferred it, if they just left him dead instead of getting everyones hope up that he was back, just to dash them again. If they think the fans were upset the first time, wait till you see what they do after he dies again.

    I know I’m gonna be p*ssed!

  12. Ann Emmess

    They’ll be separated at the finale? Oh man. Hey, I have a question. Most of y’all have a much longer range perspective on this fandom than I do.

    I have:

    1) seen a lot of people who get very upset whenever Sam and Dean separate for any length of time. (If you listen quietly, you can hear them RIGHT NOW. That’s the sound of their heads, exploding.)

    2) noticed that in general, these people tend to be more Sam-allied than Dean-allied. Is that right? Is that a real thing?

    It finally struck me that the reason it is such a crime for them to separate, is that if they separate, Dean will have all the fun. (Fun = fun to play, fun to watch. Not necessarily fun to be the character.) Dean travels in time. Again. And again. Dean goes to the forties. Dean roadtrips with Cas. Dean’s dying in a coma and he’s *still* the main character of the episode.

    And yes, Sam’s got the occasional Samday, but Sam’s most fun day ever wouldn’t even rank in Dean’s top 10. Sam’s 10 most fun days are probably all days he shared equally with Dean. (In the Wild West, and the Titanic-thing, and TV-land…in all of which he still played second banana to Dean)

    Am I on to something? Is this a bigger deal to Sam fans? Do a lot of Dean fans also think it’s a huge deal when they split up? I was just wondering.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @castiel’scat
      Hey! I liked “And Then There Were None”!

      I think we can consider it almost a given that the nun’s femur won’t work, or that something complicating will happen a la “99 Problems”.

      @Cassieo
      They lost me with Bobby near the end of season four and his OOC “Princess” speech. I actively loathed his whiny-cripple storyline in season five. It was an almost-insulting version of much-better storylines in other shows like Jim Byrnes’ turn as Joe Dawson in “Highlander”. Well-acted but very poorly written.

      As for now, Bobby is dead and gone. This is no longer Bobby and Ghost!Bobby is a “good” character with a very short lifespan. As for Castiel magically bringing Bobby back to life…yeah, ’cause that worked so well for Grandpa Shady. This is probably why so many fans are saying that Bobby needs to go, but also, from a story point of view, it is far past time that he moved on. It’s gotten to the point where the writers are ruining even his memory and presence in earlier episodes.

      Crowley is another one whose utility to the plot is fading. Okay, so, he’s King of Hell. And then what? What’s his game plan aside from randomly grabbing more power here and there? Yes, Mark Sheppard is fun, but the character himself seems aimless and is no scarier than the Leviathans.

      Meg still has potential. It makes perfect sense for her to be a temporary ally and then to become an even greater enemy. Plus, she has a clear agenda. She’s a revolutionary and she always needs a cause. It changes things up if she (or someone else) kills Crowley. And she has always been a shadow opponent to Dean – someone who is a great deal like him and shares a very similar background, but who took a different path. Dean eventually questioned his own values and loyalty. Meg did not. Kill Crowley, cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war, I say.

      Kevin could work as a newbie Hunter. People like him and he’s got a Destiny like Sam or Dean. Seriously, show, pair him up with Sushi Chef guy and have them pop into episodes now and then like the Ghostfacers. Speaking of them, I’d like to see the Ghostfacers back. Garth is okay, but God help us if he’s all we’ve got–and they need to lose the Gary Stu angle they keep trying to give him. Charlie…no. Just no. Irredeemable Mary Sue from beginning to end. But Lee can come back any time and he can bring his daughter, as long as Adam Glass isn’t writing her (Have I stressed this enough?). And maybe they could find a way to work Eliot, Ezra and Samuel Colt back in.

      Also, there is no reason whatsoever that we can’t see lots more of Sheriff Mills. Though I have a bad feeling Gamble may kill her on the way out, just out of spite.

      @Ann Emmess
      I think the main problem that certain fans have with separating the brothers is that Dean always does well in non-mytharc situations, while Sam seems to fade whenever he doesn’t have Very Special Problems or a Special Destiny on which to hang his character. This is not being sarcastic. It’s a genuine problem that the writers have long had with Sam that they don’t necessarily need to have. Sam could be doing other things (like taking Bobby’s place) besides being the show’s Designated Heroic Victim, but the two showrunners’ hearts have never been in it.

      Of course, those fan complaints stem from a kind of myopia that conveniently ignores the fact that Sam always ends up with the mytharc. Even when some of it appears to be about Dean, all mytharc roads seem to inevitably lead back to Sam, and the showrunners up to this point have seemed incapable of doing anything else. So, while the character moments and standalones may incline somewhat in Dean’s favour, those don’t balance to anything approaching equality what Sam gets with the mytharc.

      What I’ve gathered from the gazillion SamversusDean fights out there over the years is that the calmer Dean fans just want a 50/50 split in both mytharc and standalone stuff between the brothers, but the Sam fans who complain whenever the brothers are separated, or anything else threatening the status quo occurs, don’t want 50/50 for Sam. They want it all. All Sam All The Time. That both Kripke and Gamble have enabled this attitude because it reflects at least Kripke’s own preferences hasn’t helped.

      But the show can’t survive like that. This isn’t The Mentalist (and even a show like The Mentalist has to broaden out at some point – like, say, Burn Notice – or start to die around season four or so). It needs to give its two leads equal weight. In fact, it would be really nice if they gave the next few seasons a Deancentric mytharc while also broadening out the load to explore the SPNverse and other characters (including stuff for Sam that doesn’t involve his being a victim or the centre of the mytharc). The first angle would be fresh, and the second is something that got strangled as much as possible under Kripke and hacked out to no good result under Gamble.

      1. castiel'scat

        Sorry paula. I have not read back beyond s6 in archive. I will be interested to read your take. I thought it was criminal to lose Rufus and evil Bobby wasn’t well done. I also thought Dean should have shanked grandpa and Dean souls not have gotten wormed and unwormed. I was not on the edge of my seat. Sometimes a rewatch changes my mind.

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          I would have liked to have seen a lot more of wormed-up Dean, since he came off as far more dangerous than any of the others when they were wormed up. But perhaps some allowances had to be made for the fact that everyone except Padalecki was deathly ill with the flu while filming that episode.

          All that aside, I still liked it. I didn’t like that Rufus died (in a long-term sense), but I did see the reason for it in the episode, itself.

          1. castiel'scat

            I agree about wormed up Dean. I do everything on my phone and all sorts of mistakes creep in because I miss them on the small screen. I meant to say he was wormed up and then unwormed too quickly. Wasted opportunity.

            I looked at the Ja article and thought he is positive, likes Carver and feels his input will be respected. He gave no spoilers about the final.

            Yes of course there is probably nothing between them. Whatever was wrong may be affecting performances.

            I like kevin too. Not sure why the sushi chef will jump in without a compelling reason but he was cool. The Shinto aspect regarding spirits would be interesting. I think cabin in the woods summed up the differences in attitude brilliantly.

            There are a lot of good options for Carver to draw on.

          2. Paula R. Stiles

            Well, with the new Japanese spirits showing up, Carver could have some kind of arc about Asian spirits invading/being imported into the U.S. (I say “Asian” because Kevin’s family name indicates he’s an ethnic Chinese from Vietnam not Japanese). With Bobby gone, they could diversify more on their recurring infodump characters again.

            I think Ackles is quite happy to have Carver back. Hasn’t he said that he liked “Point of No Return”?

      2. Cassieo

        Paula,
        You think the nun’s femur won’t work? Cass said it was a good choice, so I would be surprised if it didn’t. And Dick does die tonight…unless Singer is as big a liar as Gamble.

        “As for now, Bobby is dead and gone. This is no longer Bobby and Ghost!Bobby is a “good” character with a very short lifespan. As for Castiel magically bringing Bobby back to life…yeah, ’cause that worked so well for Grandpa Shady. This is probably why so many fans are saying that Bobby needs to go, but also, from a story point of view, it is far past time that he moved on. It’s gotten to the point where the writers are ruining even his memory and presence in earlier episodes.”

        I still like Bobby and with Carver as SR, he can still be useful. Carver would have had a say in what Gamble did for the finale. They HAVE to set up a cliffhanger for s8 and Carver should have had to tell her what he wanted. She seems to have a low opinion of females and those types are very easily manipulated by males, so I have to think Carver did determine the finale.

        As for Grandpa Shady, his return was bad, but that was under Gamble. A Bobby return would not necessarily be the same. And the fans I read say Ghost!Bobby needs to go, not that Bobby does. Many still want him to be restored or find a way to beat the ‘vengeful Ghost’ thing. But again this is Gamble, and I suspect she will have to stick it to all the fans that ousted her, so she will do as much damage to the characters and fans as she can. Again, why would the producers let her do that?

        Crowley is a loss too. He can never be an effect Big Bad any more. So, yes, what good is he. He seems to have something going with Roman, so maybe he does die. I can see him as a ‘beloved fan fav’.

        Meg as a Big Bad now would be difficult to pull off. She has shown too many good qualities with Cass and Dean to be believable as anything but an ally. And yes, she and Dean are a good pair. Love to see an episode with just him and her on the same side.

        Don’t know what will be done with Kevin. He’s a prophet now so unless they can restore him to normal, he is best dead especially with the garrison gone. But ‘beloved’ or ‘fan fav’ is not how I would describe him. You found fans liked him? Guess I missed that.

        I remember last season they talked about 2-3 deaths for the finale and they all turned out to be minor characters. Maybe the “beloved’ is an over exaggeration. Guess we find out is a few hours.

    2. castiel'scat

      Methinks you are onto something. Personally at this point I would like to see Dean with anyone else. Then again I do not watch this show for brotherly moments. Character development is essential but the relationship is off at this point.

      Jp doth protest to much. It makes me think whatever happened affected other working relationships. I certainly feel a strange distance or something off on a lot of their scenes. Whatever this means it should lead to a Dean story finally. Hallelujah!

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        I don’t think Padalecki is lying about his friendship with Ackles (though I do think Collins wants to punch him, sometimes). They’ve been housemates and best men for each other’s weddings. But being friends with someone, even your costar on a show for seven seasons, doesn’t mean the two of you are joined at the hip. Padalecki has always had aspirations to make films and he has never been as attached to the production side of things as Ackles is. And how he has a newborn son, who is a whole new order of priority. These are simple differences in preferences and not a comment on either their characters or how close they really are.

    3. Cassieo

      @Ann Emmess
      That’s an interesting observation. Dean does always do better without Sam and in some episodes like “Time After Time’ and The Born Again Identity’ you can just fast forward through Sam’s parts and not miss a thing. He does get the better scripts because he has the widest range of talents and can really be used in a variety of situations. And Dean-only episodes are the most popular. “The End” was phenomenal.

      That is what Sam-fans get irked about. They think Sam is the reason the world spins. They think every episode should only be about him. The love to see him snub Dean, lie to him, sneak behind his back and just diss authority any way he can because they are mainly youg and immature teens who think their parents and anyone who messes with their fun are jerks. Unfortunately EK and SG, though adults, have the same adolescence mindset and have fed those ideas to those immature fans for 4 years now.

      But that is NOT what made the show. The interactions between the brothers are what made the series and the strong character of Dean is what people liked the most. The series has been mainly about Sam since season four and they have lost a TON of viewers because of it. That is why people don’t like the separations. Sam episode do a lot of damage.

      Fans do have to realize though that the relationship of the brothers needs a LOT of repair…and for me that means finally getting Sam to grow up. To not just say he is sorry for his misdeeds but to really show that he does. To really respect Dean’s advanced experience, to respect all Dean did for him and to stop acting like an immature little kid. No bitching, no more temper tantrums….in other words, to know his limitations. That will really disillusion the Samfans and there would be a lot of screaming about it. But if TPTB stick to it, those obsessive fans would eventually be drowned out and go away. Then the story about both boys could begin again. The one the series was designed for in the first place.

  13. Lily

    Well, CW cancelled the Secret Circle, Ringer, and has given Gossip Girl a final season. It has renewed Hart of Dixie, and Nikita so there were some surprise I had not expected.

    I think SPN has potential of a 9th season, or more.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Gossip Girl only got 11 episodes, so it’ll be gone by January. People are speculating that Nikita is as good as guaranteed a fourth season, as well, due to syndication, but I’m a bit skeptical. It’s bound to die on the vine at 9pm on Fridays. Cue lots of whining from Nikita fans that the addition of Haven makes it a much tougher slot than it ever was for SPN when Nikita gets much lower ratings than even this season. I rolled my eyes when they were complaining about the lack of promotion for Nikita this past season. Yeah, well, that happens when your show opens big to tons of promotion, needs a reboot two months into its existence, and drops half of its audience in its first season.

      1. Cassieo

        Paula, I have never understood the draw of Nikita. It was very bad it’s first season and I just could not understand it being renewed last year. Ditto this year and yes, I heard if a show makes it through 3 years, it’s so close the ~ 80 episodes it needs to be syndicated, they usually will keep it going for its fourth season which is why I was against it being renewed for its third.I also heard that it is making a ton of money for WB internationally and, with WB owning part of CW, it got a special pass. I also read that the CW likes it cause it’s different from its other shows. That is silly…bad is bad no matter what the genre. Ditto for GG. Geez…just dump them already.

        And I NEVER understood why on earth they put it as a lead in for SPN. Yes, it is supposed to have the same demos as SPN, but one is a spy series and one a horror! Absolutely NO similarity is audiences at all same demos or not. I’m guessing they just didn’t have anywhere else to put it, so why keep it at all. And as you say it will so die at the later hour. Haven is a very popular show. I sure wouldn’t miss it for Nikita. I wouldn’t be surprised if the series wasn’t cancelled by midseason.

  14. Ann Emmess

    @ Paula (about how the show’s is unfair to *both* brothers.)

    Yes, totally. I’ve been thinking about that. Maybe there should be a writer’s rule that says:

    Never give all of one story element (like the mytharc/Hero’s Journey, or the comic relief and escapes into fantasy) to only one of your characters.

    It’s okay if one character gets most of it (Harry Potter and heroic moments.)

    But if you are too uneven, fans of other characters will feel unjustly deprived. And they will never, ever forgive you.

    My best example is Xander, in the Buffy fandom. To most people, Xander was the comic relief and a staunch ally. But — again — he was also the “eternally human” one. Nature’s buttmonkey.

    And that made him a powerful, mostly-beloved character. But I’ve sometimes seen fans who genuinely adored Xander the way some fans loved Spike, and they are *still* aggrieved by all of the story elements Xander never got even once over the years. (Willow and Giles had the full set.) They pine for a satisfying hurt-comfort scene. (The eye thing came too late.) They wanted some clear moment of recognition that he was a key force in his universe. And they were perpetually deprived.

    I wouldn’t enjoy watching Jared trying to sell a huge acting challenge like The End. But there are surely ways to send him on a lighter, one-shot adventure. It could be fun, and I wouldn’t begrudge that to his fans. Where’s the harm in sharing a little of Dean’s wealth there?

    And on the flipside, I will never, never understand why the writers, who clearly understand that Jensen is their best and most versatile actor, do not think that his fans will care if they never bother to weave him into the story.

    It’s a bizarre split. There is *no* visible way that it benefits the show, on either side. It’s a very strange way of thinking.

    Calmer fans and more fraught fans:

    I see a difference between immature fans and mature fans. (NOT always the same as older and younger.)

    I have noticed that a lot of immature fans express their wishes for the show with totems: this object symbolizes my deeper wish for (concept), so I *want this object.* They use these as shorthand for feelings, and repeat them over and over.

    Sam fans:
    Bring back Dean’s amulet! (I want you to prove that Dean still loves Sam the best of all.)

    Cas fans:
    Make Dean forgive Cas for the betrayal! Dean screws up too! (Misha is my favorite and I want you to show that he’s just as important as Jared and Jensen.)

    Dean:
    We all want Dean to have a *plot*, any *plot*, but sometimes we drill that down into the symbols of plots gone by — the Michael sword, the Phoenix ash, etc.

    I want those things too! But I like this blog because we don’t *only* talk in symbols. I have been to others that do nothing else. It drives me nuts because it’s such an illogical way to have a conversation.

    1. Cassieo

      @Ann Emmess
      “I wouldn’t enjoy watching Jared trying to sell a huge acting challenge like The End. But there are surely ways to send him on a lighter, one-shot adventure.”

      You answered you own question here. Jared is a nice guy and an good actor that can compliment any show, but a Jensen Ackles he is not and industry people can see that straight away. A number of Ackles scenes have been submitted to the Emmy awards for consideration and nothing of JP’s ever has. Now that doesn’t mean he is a bad actor just not Emmy material. He can have a very successful career in entertainment as long as he pairs himself with the JA’s of the business.

      A lighter episode may or may not work too. I have just seen too many times when JP has just dropped the scene and completely threw me out of the fantasy. I can see that happening in light as well as heavy episodes.

      For me I just can’t see a Sam-only episode as very good…not like all the Dean-only episodes were. Others may feel differently.

    2. Cassieo

      Have to say I’m sorry the season is over just because we all can’t meet here to talk and spec about the series for a while. I really have enjoyed the talks and wish the site had a forum of some kind that we could all meet in. Hopefully, Paula, you will still have the spoiler articles each week, but there won’t be much of them till mid July or so with Comic.com.

      Happy episode tonight everyone. I don’t expect I will like it and I doubt it will be good enough for most critics either. But one good thing is that it’s the end of the EK/SG era. With a new SR and a new time slot, things can only go up from here. So I say GOODBYE SEASON 7 and HELLO SEASON 8! To bigger and better things for the series.

    3. castiel'scat

      I really don’t understand the obsession with the necklace.

      I am clinging to the old plot elements at the moment because yes I want something for Dean and because the current story is toying with them and dangling the possibility in our faces.

      I agree. I just blew threw all of Buffy. I was very impressed with character development. All of the characters were well developed. Everyone had purpose. I was less attracted to xander myself- too ruled by negative emotions at times. He did bring dark willow down. I was shocked by how they never accepted spike and how everyone bit spike turns on her to follow faith! No apologies.
      Character development and Continuity were strong in that show. Bunnies!

      When I look on other sites I am surprised. Any good posts that could evoke interesting discussion get lost with all the harping and fanaticism. Good point… immaturity may have nothing to do with age

  15. castiel'scat

    Ja likes Carver’s episodes and has said he is an excellent writer, or that was the gist. I don’t remember him singling any out. I love that he’s positive and in his interviews. And he always chats up his coworkers rather than himself.

  16. Crowley_Gal

    If they are going to bring in other hunters, I’d love to see them bring back and develop Mackey, the hunter from TBAI. He seemed like a believeable hunter. I don’t know who played him but I really liked the brief glimpse we got.

    Since old friend constantly pop out of the woodwork, why not have a few be from Dean’s solo time. I’d love to learn more about that time. He must have met some good hunters, they couldn’t have all been like Richie.

    I really hope they get rid of Bobby. Not only because I have disliked the way he’s been written since 4.22 but I feel he makes the writers to lazy. If the boys need something translated, Bobby speaks that language, If they need lore, Bobby has just the book.(To bad they didn’t have the nerve to follow through on getting rid of Bobby’s library) If they need a special weapon, Bobby has an endless supply of old friends who just happen to have it. I’d love to see the boys develop their own contacts, like the Shinto priest. He could become the boys consult for archaic rituals. Just because he’s asian doesn’t mean he can only be knowledgeable about Asian spirits. I also kind of like the guy they got as translator from The Slice Girls. I know he was kind of a dick, but I liked the way the boys handled him.

    I agree, no to Charlie. I liked Lee but I want Krissy to have gone off to boarding school. Garth isn’t to bad, but I agree tone him down.

    As for Crowley and Meg, I’d rather lose Meg. Maybe its just RM’s take on the the character but I just don’t see her as menacing. As for a thing between her and Cas. Just no. I want the show to remember that Meg is a demon. I can’t see an angel hooking up with a demon. I’d rather see the boys go against Crowley, who always has an agenda. Meg is coming across as Ruby 3.0

    As for the finale, I don’t have much hope, but it was nice to hear that Jensen actually had something to say about Dean. Let just hope its not revolving around Sam.

    Since JP said that they might get an opportunity for them to do something they didn’t’ get to do, I’ve seen speculation that Sam might be trying to rescue Dean from purgatory, since the writers strike prevented Sam saving Dean from hell. I’m not sure how I feel about that though, because I can’t see it working out to be much different from Dean’s hell story and again its mostly a story about Sam.

    As for what JP said, its not secret that he’s always preferred the boys at odds, he’s said it more than once. I think the article that said they would be at odds was Zap2it, and they like to put their own spin on things. Another article made it sound as if it was a voluntary separation, which i wouldn’t mind. I’ve often thought that the only way Dean would truly discover who he is and what he wants is to get away from everybody and go his own way.

    Even if they do separate, I don’t think it would be more than an episode or two.

  17. Arafel

    Just weighing in on feelings about the brothers being separated. I think that when the writers decided to never address and/or refute, through actual brotherly dialogue, what Sam said and thought about the brothers working relationship and the problems with it in Fallen Idols(AKA give us Dean’s thoughts on it), we’ve had to assume that the writers saw the relationship this way, too-even though, IMO, that was NOT what was shown to us from the series inception.

    That episode, and the writers subsequent failure and refusal to acknowledge that what we’ve actually been shown on the show from early in the series is quite different from what they were trying to tell us of it in that one, was for me the end of the brothers being able to work together in a satisfying(to me) manner. Yes, Dean had at times been over-protective of Sam, IMO-and how not, through John drilling into him since early childhood, the prime directive of watching over and protecting Sam to the exclusion of everything and everyone else, including Dean, himself-but overly-controlling or bossy-no-not IMO-it’s Sam who’s been shown to be that and more John-like in that regard. And Dean is the better leader because of his being more willing to listen and consider others’ viewpoints. But, it’s my feeling that the writers don’t want Dean to be the singular leader of the two; they want the brothers to be “equals” in this.

    Well, my feeling on that is that even in a partnership of just two, someone has to have the last word, at some point, and that person is the leader, and there can only be one. If they really want Sam to lead, than IMO, they would have to separate the brothers, IMO. Jensen has always brought too much to his character in that regard for them to try and deny it-but try, they have and will continue to do, I suppose, if 7.22 was any indication. Personally, though, I felt that even there, Dean, as usual, more allowed Sam to implement his plan to try and talk with the Alpha Vamp after having heard him(Sam) out in the car, before entering the house. Also, personally speaking, *I* would much rather have seen Dean’s plan of going in there “machetes blazing” put into action, than what we got-which kind of only worked out because they offed Edgar in the end, and had little to do with Sam’s plan and desire to “talk it out”.

  18. Ginger

    JA interview, which says he’s directing 8.01 (SPN’s 150th episode).

    “We don’t get a very long break — it’s about two and a half months,” Ackles explained. “I actually have to go back early because I’m going to direct the first episode [of Supernatural]. My break is even a littler shorter, but we try to make the most of it. It’s not optimal, but as I always say, it’s a good problem to have!”

    http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/jensen-ackles-drops-hints-about-supernaturals-season-7-finale-2012185#ixzz1vFfd69RX

    1. Cassieo

      Jensen Ackles is directing the first episode filmed, not necessarily the premier. Just like in past years.

      1. Ginger

        Oh, yeah, that’s probably what it means. I actually hope it’s like that, because if not, JA may have a light role in 8.01.

        1. Ann Emmess

          I think it probably will be Jensen on ep 150. No director would appreciate that honor more than he. Or get such ink for it.

          You would imagine the first ep under Carver will be huge in scope, so maybe it will be 151 or 152 instead; Jensen was a lot shakier on his second try than the first. But I bet they’ve tried hard to figure out if they can possibly pull it off.

          1. Cassieo

            @Ann Emmess

            The first episode will be written by Carver and direct by Singer. The two Co-Showrunners will be front and center for this premier.

            As for JA’s directing, both of his episodes were directed wonderfully. His second episode was actually more involved for him than the first, but he script was awful, hence the bad reviews. No one said JA’s direct was not as good as the first. All the cast and crew worked well with what they had.

  19. Cassieo

    Well Bobby’s dead… And I really liked he did beat the vengeful spirit. And you will NEVER convince me he didn’t, Paula! He got it together and agreed the flask should be burnt. Gee anyone think he is in Purgatory? I do. Guess he’s not done with the show yet. Anyone think he gets out with Dean and Cas next season? I do.

    Ha..Dean and Cass and Bobby in Purgatory. Now that I like! At least Dean has his leather jacket. Those nasty monsters better not rip it up either. And Dean did get to kill Roman. Who is now also in Purgatory with them. This has a lot of possibilities.

    As for Sam, he had no business telling Dean to shut up. That was just plain rude! Hope he has no episodes next season. Geez…I hope they don’t have any of just him. Hope the give him a LOT of time off for his kid. Hehehe

    Guess we were all wrong about Crowley having now place to go in the series. I really liked him this time. Almost like the old Crowley again! And Meg…gee I feel very sorry for her. She really did a good job for the group. I hope Cas can save her.

    Cass…hehehe…I don’t think he is so ‘crazy’ any more…if he ever was. And I’m glad Dean has at least begun to forgive him.

    Gosh…I guess I liked the end….and I really don’t think all that was SG’s ideas! I see Carver and Ackles hand in this.

    I know one thing…I will be home for the premier. I will just have to get a sub for that night!

  20. Cassieo

    Oh Geez…I just thought…what happens to the impala now. I really don’t like Sam with it. And didn’t Meg drive her GREAT!!!! Really I think they all will be back…hopefully the first eppie of S8!

  21. castiel'scat

    Better than I expected. Definitely rushed. Bobby completely loosing it/flask burning arc should have had more time. Naked cas covered in bees didn’t work. Glad Dean was in charge. Glad he winced at that line. Loved the double boning of Dick. Expected there to be many dicks. Expected Dean to end up in purgatory. Glad cas is with him. Meg is a badass Levi killer. Crowley is the master. I bow to his dastardly mastery. Sg left her boy all alone, falling apart as we speak. Oh oh.. Sam makes very bad decisions when Dean is away.

    OMG! Castiel actually acknowledged his need for me. PURRRRRrrrrrrrr

  22. Ginger

    I would say a typical SG episode, but I do think it was left to where Carver could do a lot of things with it next season.

    What really showed up was that Bobby should have been left dead with Death’s Door. His whole GhostBobby story went nowhere, and that was pretty evident tonight…not to mention he was again tripp’ all over the country either with or without the flask. Since he told the boys they had it, I’m not sure on that point.

    Dean ended up, after all, not having a story all season.

    I guess archangels don’t protect prophets anymore. Dammit, SG, you were there in S4. 4.18…look it up. Or maybe all angels are dead. I’m not sure on that point either.

    And why did Crowley want the prophet? I’m not sure about that either.

    And Meg is gone, but probably not really. I am happy at the possibility that Crowley is the nemesis next year and not Meg. And why was she helping the boys with the Levi after she knew Crowley was back? I’m not clear on that point either.

    Cas has yet another transformation…at least it looks like he’s not so Fruit Loop at this moment. What that transformation is, I’m not sure, but I did like his and Dean’s scenes together. Loved the line, “He was your boyfriend first.”

    Cas can still transport, but he can’t transport Dean out of Purgatory?

    Anyway, looking forward to your recap, Paula. I’m glad this season is over. Although I thought it was a pretty typical SG script…sagging in the middle, rushed, and sloppy in all areas but the crude jokes and young, virgin girl stuff (exactly what was with the Polly character?), it did leave me looking forward to what Carver can do with it beginning with 8.01. It’s been a while since a finale has done that for me. I just hope Carver gives Dean a story next year, ’cause he sure as hell didn’t have one again this year.

  23. Ann Emmess

    I’m excited for a lot of the things that were set up. Otherwise, it was a combination of surprisingly good (Kevin, Cas once he redeemed, Meg and Crowley, Dean had nice moments) and aggravatingly awful. (Polly. And the maid. OMG Polly and the maid. WHY would you bring that much misogyny and victimization to your last episode, SERA? There was nothing redemptive, nothing heroic — every second of both of those stories made my flesh crawl.) Also, I eat crow for thinking we would see more of Dick’s actual horror-acting range. Le sigh.

    I did think, during the Carry On clipshow which is getting tired anyway: All of these clips are from FOUR EPISODES.

    But I’m psyched with the next set-up. Assuming they don’t shortshrift the idea like they did with God Cas, they’ve left a lot of room to play with things. Sam could rescue Kevin, Adam, maybe Meg (At first I thought Kevin was going to be Sam’s travel buddy, but he’s a goal instead.) Telling stories in Purgatory with Dean and Cas could be awesome — the nice monsters are in there too, not just the rematches.

    If they go wrong, they’ll go wrong, but I’m more excited about the potential here than going several seasons back.

  24. castiel'scat

    Yes casseio. For cas it was still all about Dean. He needed Dean to forgive or at the very least play a board game with him. He was very attuned to Dean’s moods all along. I think he will be better now too.

    Really like your idea that Bobby is in purgatory. It is pretty clear cas will resurrect. I still hate they killed him and put that @#$! Storyline on us. Do you think john and mary are there since apparently they are not in heaven.

    1. Cassieo

      @castiel’scat

      We could see a lot of the dead in Purgatory. Rufus for one and who knows how many they can resurrect from there. I think the Ghost!Bobby thing was for two purposes, one to put more stress and angst on fans SG thinks angst = drama. And to have him in Purgatory to help get Dean out. Yes Cass is there, but they made such a big deal about opening the door the first time, I have to think Cas just can’t beam them out. How Carver will do it will be interesting. I hope he doesn’t take too many episodes to get it done either. 1 or 2 is enough for me.

      And I don’t know where John and Mary are…could be there. JDM did say he would come back if asked. Imagine Dean and his dad together again.

      What about Grandpa Shady….he certainly never was in heaven. Did the series ever tell us how he got back to earth to begin with?

      The next few months will be filled with all kinds of spec on this stuff. I’m just glad it’s centered on Dean not Sam. Sam, except for telling Dean to shut up (that was so BAAAAD) …really had a small part in this again. So not SG… and so much Carver and Ackles!

  25. castiel'scat

    I imagine that there is more word of God and knowledge is power, especially in this new deangeled universe. Crowley is smart to want kevin.

    Sam doesn’t know Meg was taken and has never spoken about Adam. I think he’s on clean up crew and then will work on rescuing Dean. I hate to think of who he will get in bed with. Maybe ash can open purgatory.

    Good thing Dean is such a badass. Maybe his Phoenix blood will be handy in purgatory.

    It leaves a lot of open doors to exciting possibilities.

    1. Cassieo

      @castiel’scat

      “I think he’s on clean up crew and then will work on rescuing Dean. I hate to think of who he will get in bed with.”

      Haha…My thoughts exactly. I really hope they have him fair better that when Dean went to hell. But this is Carver now, not Gamble, so really we might see a much better Sam here. This would be a good time for Sam to start to show some signs of maturity. He diffinely needs a character re-vamp.

  26. Lani

    I agree with @Ann Emmes about being psyched with the set-up for next season. The episode itself had several rough patches, but it did set up next season much better than last year by far.

    Castiel and Dean in Purgatory opens up so many possibilities in terms of big bads returning too! Azazel in true form making a come back! Lilith…eh, but still kinda neat. And not just them, but also Mary and John who were said to be missing from Heaven back in S5. That actually really excites me because I love Samantha Smith’s Mary and her scenes with JA even more! And even the possibility of the Witness who were raised back in 4.02 and those characters making a comeback…lol, okay maybe getting a little ahead of myself. But seriously, that was a nice set-up for the return of old characters without actually bringing them back from the dead. I suspect Carver influenced that and I must say I approve.

    Also it looks like Dean and Sam may be separated for a lengthy amount of time. Sam will hopefully finally start maturing and growing and becoming a full fledged character and not one I could care less about. And he’s not entirely alone. He has Jody Mills, Garth, Lee and his daughter (and I am one who thinks she could be much better under a different writer and direction so I’m hoping :) ), Mackey is still out there, and Kevin, Crowley, and Meg are about too. There actually a lot of story possibilities there for both brothers…and hopefully Carver will explore Dean’s numerous and deep supernatural ties and finally answer the question of why he should keep hunting.

    That’s the one thing (aside from Bobby) in the episode that really drove me crazy. Dean had no storyline the whole season!! He DID get to kill Levi Big Boss Roman so that was cool. Hee, loved how Dean and Cas tricked him too! That was a Dean plan to the core.

    Looking forward to your review, Paula.

  27. Lily

    Dean in Purgatory is all kinds of awesome!! Talk about story potential. Did Crawley, tell Sam, paraphrasing here, “you always wanted to be alone so here you are now. Baby was so awesome to see, although I do wish Dean was driving. I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but Meg was awesome too. Hope she will be back!

    I’m so looking forward to your review Paula!!

  28. castiel'scat

    So I am not the only nut job. Ardeospina
    threw out Crowley being the trickster in

    her lets speculate article for survival of the fittest on wfb:
    LET’S SPECULATE: “SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST” Saturday, 19 May 2012 00:06 | Last Updated on Saturday, 19 May 2012 00:12 | Writte by Ardeospina |

    I did get a weird vibe when he was taunting Sam about being all alone. And he was altogether too much in the know about the effects of using a God weapon. Something Crowley wouldn’t know first hand. It would also explain why he took kevin. He’s been altogether too helpful in my opinion.

    In the comments section of this article someone mentioned Crowley calling Dean God’s tool. I missed this.

  29. AFriendOfAFriend

    What can I say. I really liked the season finale. I let others point out the flaws, I can just say I liked it. I really liked it despite plot flaws and rushed storytelling.

    And I think there are endless amazing possibilities for the writers to go storywise. Dean and Cas in purgatory. Lots of monsters there the Winchesters killed that could want “revenge”, but also both Dean and Cas would be able to face their “own” monsters there. Dean has been thinking about himself being a monster for a long while so maybe purgatory for him could mean cleansing (if I remember correctly in christian belief purgatory is a place to be cleansed of all your sins so the soul/you can go to heaven – that sounds like Dean much? I think so. Cas as well. – SPN purgatory doesn’t come off as that place though, but you never know…) Dean and Cas could work through their guilt issues. But there are also endless opportunities to have guest appearances of “beloved” characters or even loved ones of the Winchester brothers. The people Dean could meet and that could be re-introdcued in some way – even if it’s just for a few scenes in a few epis – are endless. Rufus, Bobby, Lenore and also if angels go there when they die a whole lot of angels as well. And then of course Mary and John Winchester since both of them weren’t in heaven.

    I’m curious on how long this separation of Sam and Dean will last. I don’t like them being separated but for character development it’s pretty amazing and I love that finally Dean seems to be center of the myth-arc right now. At the moment I feel like this will/should take at least almost half a season to re-unite the boys. If the boys are re-united in 8.02 as many assume I’d feel like the whole being zapped to purgatory I feel so bad for poor Sam. He really has no idea where Dean has gone or if he even is still alive.

    I mean for all we know it looks like Dick Roman/Head Levi took Castiel and Dean with him, but let’s just speculate for a second, couldn’t it also be that Dean and Castiel in some way died during that confrontation. Think about it, both Castiel and Dean not only think of themselves as monsters, both have been monsters. Cas was taken over by Levis and Dean was a vamp and has the phoenix ash in his blood. I guess they didn’t really die, but the idea just popped into my head.

    @Casiel’scat: Interesting ieda. Crowley as the trickster. I def thought he was way too helpful as well, so there goes that. Anyway, poor Sam and poor Dean.

    Hell, I’m fucking excited for season 8. I think it could be an amzing season and honestly this set up leaves endless cool story options that could be explored in not just an 8th but more seasons if it’s done right.

  30. AFriendOfAFriend

    Oops the third part should read like this:

    I’m curious on how long this separation of Sam and Dean will last. I don’t like them being separated but for character development it’s pretty amazing and I love that finally Dean seems to be center of the myth-arc right now. At the moment I feel like this will/should take at least almost half a season to re-unite the boys. If the boys are re-united in 8.02 as many assume I’d feel like the whole being zapped to purgatory to be kind of useless, because it’s been too short and I also hope that we get some more glimpses into purgatory and won’t start with Cas and Dean crawling out of purgatory in 8.01 like Dean did in 4.01 and then it says 1 year later or something like this. I also hope Sam won’t find himself a Ruby 3.0 to bust Dean out (that is if he figures out where Dean has gone to).

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