TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/09/12

This entry is part 19 of 26 in the series Spoilers 2012: Part 1

This week, we have spoilers for Once Upon a Time and Supernatural:

Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina

SpoilerTV has the ABC press release up for the episode “A Land Without Magic”:

“EMMA AND REGINA MUST TEAM TOGETHER IN ORDER TO SAVE HENRY’S LIFE, AND PRINCE CHARMING TRIES TO ESCAPE FROM THE EVIL QUEEN’S CLUTCHES TO REUNITE WITH A FALLEN SNOW WHITE, ON ABC’S ONCE UPON A TIME“:

“Jamie Dornan Guest Stars as Huntsman; Emilie de Ravin (Lost) Guest Stars as Belle; Kristin Bauer (True Blood) Guest Stars as Maleficent; Sebastian Stan (“Gossip Girl,” Captain America: The First Avenger) Guest Stars as Jefferson.

“‘A Land Without Magic’ – Emma and Regina team together in order to find a way to save Henry’s life. Meanwhile, in the fairytale land that was, Prince Charming attempts to escape from the Evil Queen’s clutches in order to reunite with Snow White who, unbeknownst to him, has already taken a bite of the Queen’s poison apple, on Once Upon a Time, SUNDAY, MAY 13 (8:00-9:01 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

Once Upon a Time stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Robert Carlyle as Rumpelstiltskin/Mr. Gold, Lana Parrilla as Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David, Eion Bailey as August, Jared Gilmore as Henry Mills and Raphael Sbarge as Jiminy Cricket/Archie Hopper.

“Guest starring are Lee Arenberg as Leroy/Grumpy, David Anders as Dr. Whale, Jamie Dornan as Sheriff Graham/Huntsman, Keegan Connor Tracy as Mother Superior/Blue Fairy, Meghan Ory as Ruby/Red Riding Hood, Kristin Bauer as Maleficent, Beverley Elliott as Granny, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Gabe Khouth as Mr. Clark/Sneezy, Michael Coleman as Happy, Jarod Joseph as Billy, Sebastian Stan as Jefferson, Ingrid Torrance as Severe Nurse, and Charles Zuckerman as Black Knight No. 1.

“‘A Land Without Magic’ was written by Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz and directed by Dean White.”

They also have the promotional photos up for “A Land Without Magic”. I’m guessing the scene of Regina and Dr. Whale in the hospital, looking like they are being blown back, has something to do with Emma waking Henry up.

And here’s the promo for the episode, on YouTube.

Jennifer Morrison had an interview with TV Guide, where she teased whether or not Emma would believe by the end of the season. I thought this quote was very interesting:

“Morrison says that the cliff-hanger will leave fans wondering what the show will even be like next season. ‘It’s so massive and so game-changing,’ she says. ‘I mean that in the best way. I read the season finale and went, Oh my God! What is going to happen?!‘ While Morrison notes that the core characters and brand of storytelling will remain intact, ‘thematically, there is going to be such a drastic shift that it will be a whole new adventure’ in Season 2.”

I’m now kind of wondering if they are all going to be somehow transported to fairytale land, and the next season will be set there. If you go by Jennifer’s hints, and what looks like something happening in the street in Storybrooke, with Mary Margaret and David, it could be. Hmmm….

Kristin at E! Online had an interesting little tidbit:

StorybrookeMirror: Have any more Once Upon a Time spoilers up your sleeve?
“Mirror, mirror on Twitter, prepare for the return of another guest star! OK, that didn’t really rhyme, but we tried. A guest star we previously only met in the fairy-tale world will be returning before season’s end and this time, we’ll be meeting their Storybrooke counterpart as well. Warning: Prepare yourselves for a pretty big twist.”

I’m not quite sure who this could be.

Ausiello at TVLine had this to say about the Sheriff/Huntsman’s return in the finale:

Question: What are the details about Sheriff Graham/the Huntsman’s return to Once Upon a Time? Please say it somehow, magically involves him getting to see Emma again. I haven’t missed a character so much since Logan Echolls left my television screen. – Robin
Ausiello: The odds would seem to favor Jamie Dornan returning as the Huntsman and not Graham since the former is alive and the latter is not. But considering what OUAT co-creator Eddy Kitsis just told TVLine’s Matt Mitovich, I’m not so sure that’s the case. Asked about the circumstances surrounding Dornan’s comeback, Kitsis teased, “I can say that it is one my favorite reveals of the entire year, and to spoil it would be so heartbreaking.” And how important was it to have Dornan back as…whomever? Says Kitsis, “We moved heaven and earth to get that man from London. Or, we put him on a plane.”

Creators Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz will be having a Facebook chat with fans Wednesday, May 9 from 3:00-4:00 p.m., ET/12 noon-1:00 p.m., PT. You can find the details on ABC’s media site.

Finally, the ratings are in, and the show remained the same in the demos at 3.0, but slipped a bit in overall viewers to 8.98 million, down from last week’s 9.20 million. There is still no official word from ABC that the show has been renewed, but I can’t imagine it being canceled. We should find out for sure on May 15, 2012, when ABC has their upfronts.

Supernatural (Friday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

The obvious big news is that the show has won an early renewal, along with The Vampire Diaries and 90210, for an eighth season. Due to their ratings, both Supernatural and The Vampire Diaries were considered shoo-ins for a renewal, barring other factors like cast contracts or a complete change in direction by the network. New network head, Mark Pedowitz, has repeatedly said that he is a fan of both shows. While network heads say a lot of things that don’t affect renewals, it appears to be the case, here, since both shows are doing so well for the network that the casts of both seemed confident of getting another season.

As for 90210, while its demos have rested on the border between those shows that were doing well and those that were doing poorly for most of the season, and its audience numbers have been uninspiring, it has remained steady while early front runners have sunk to the bottom this spring. Therefore, while its renewal is not really a surprise, the fact that it’s the only early drama renewal aside from the two obvious successes means that all five of the network’s other dramas are in jeopardy – yes, even Gossip Girl. I keep seeing that show declared as a lock for a final, 13-episode season, but no one can come up with any public reason for the network to do that aside from nostalgia. Pedowitz is going to have to weigh that nostalgia, and possible revenue from extra episodes on Netflix and in syndication, against the show’s abysmal ratings all season. And with the show finally dropping to a 0.4, as well as a few weeks’ worth of sub-million audience, the network may well decide to save fresher shows with slightly higher ratings, like Hart of Dixie and The Secret Circle (which could just be moved to Fridays in front of Supernatural, as a fellow dark fantasy show), instead.

A corrective note: Last week, I reported the 7.23 synopsis as being for 7.22. What can I say? This extra episode business is confusing me.

Speaking of extra episodes, a rumour spread at the Rio Con that the show is getting 24 episodes for next season. Jim Michaels, who may or may not have been the source of the rumour, said he was expecting to hear the show would get a 23-episode order, instead. He also refuted a rumour that he had said at the con that Misha Collins would definitely be in season eight and also insisted that a tweet allegedly from him about Jeffrey Dean Morgan being in 7.23 had been forged. The first episode of season eight will be the show’s 150th. If it the show makes it to ten seasons, it could reach 200 episodes, as well.

Promos for 7.22 came out early this week, so we have almost a full gamut of official photos, CW promo, Canadian promo, and sneak peek. We’re only missing the Producer’s Preview, though we do now have the one for last week (It was done by Misha Collins, this time), as well as a late sneak peek and Canadian promo.

While it is, of course, impossible to say at this juncture how things will go in either 7.22 or 7.23, the official spoilers seem to be leaning toward making us think Bobby will do something horrible to Dean – like rip out one of his ribs. We have seen Bobby do things with his flask without Dean looking, implying he can teleport objects. The synopsis talked about Bobby trying out a new and dangerous “trick”. The sneak peek has him skipping right over the bone of the “righteous mortal” to the blood of the fallen in his infodump to Dean, as if he already knows where to get the bone. And even though we can now see him, he still haunts Dean almost exclusively. We even get Stalker Ghost!Bobby poses in the official photos, lurking behind Dean. Bobby is becoming increasingly obsessed about killing Dick. In the clip, he breaks a mirror with Dean’s reflection, scaring Dean. Just how far might he go in hurting Dean if he decides Dean is that righteous mortal?

There is a new interview up with Misha Collins. Not a lot of spoilers, but he teases about being in season eight, as well as a possible reconciliation with Dean by the end of this season.

Supernatural has been nominated for a Leo in the category of Best Visual Effects (the Canadian version of the Emmy).

Finally, ratings for “Reading is Fundamental” remained steady in the demo at 0.7/2 and went up a bit more to 1.660 million in audience (Looks like the renewal notice, as expected, created some extra buzz). For the third week in a row, the show was second to The Vampire Diaries on the network in both the demo and audience by a clear margin. Also, the Live+7 ratings came back for “Of Grave Importance”, with the same-night 0.7 once again going up to 1.1.

We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm, and Supernatural.

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IFPTV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/09/12

64 Comments on “TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/09/12”

  1. Crowley_Gal

    Thanks for the round up Paula.

    Unfortunately, with the amount of times the show has pulled the bait and switch, even if Bobby has been haunting Dean exclusively doesn’t mean that the dangerous things he tries will be against Dean.

    At this point I’ll be somewhat happy if the bone comes from anyone but Sam. Although considering that the show has made it a point of saying just how “light” same feels because he’s absolved himself of all guilt and responsibility and good Sam is because he was willing to forgive Cas, it wouldn’t surprise me to see it spun this way.

    I’ve been noticing the lack of Dean screen time in the last few episode, I get why with JP, but why so light on Dean?

    Although I like that we are getting to see Crowley again. I missed the weasel.

  2. castiel'scat

    I have seen people use this argument, saying it has to be Sam. Hrumph. A homicidal sociopath feels no guilt. Its part of Sam’s hubris to not be guilty, and he was raised not to feel responsible. I will be so angry… we have been told repeatedly that Dean is the righteous man by Biblical standards and SOH and TMV/MS… He has been mocked for being a saint. He has never been demon possessed. In my opinion he is the moral center of the show. WTF SG!

    Interesting take paula that in the promo Bobby does not focus on the bone because he knows who it is.

  3. AFriendOfAFriend

    I’m really looking forward to these last 2 episodes (talking about my never ending hope for Dean to be front and center of the episodes) and it’s really kind of bugging me a bit that I won’t be able to watch 7×22 before sunday night. But on the other hand it’s not that bad, because I’ll get some first hand “Supernatural” experience. :) I’m going to be at AECON 3. :) Yeah, but that doesn’t belong here… Just needed to share my excitement!

    I can only agree with all of you. Why the lack of Dean screen time? No clue. Why all the Dean hate? No clue either! Hell, I will never understand Dean hate. I think most of these people hating on Dean really just don’t “get” Dean (maybe because they are focusing their attention on other characters f.e. Castiel) because they don’t get the subtext, and don’t recognize any of those subtle things Jensen Ackles so perfectly delivers that make you get a strong sense of what Dean is feeling and why. And to make it short, Dean is not in a good place. NOT AT ALL.

    I agree with you Paula, Bobby seems to be haunting Dean more exclusively and what he is doing to Dean is more than creepy and scary. Wrong on so many levels. Nope this has nothing to do with Bobby the friendly helpful ghost. Poor Dean. He looks beyond freaked out and scared to the bone in that latest promo. Pretty sure there is no way around burning that damn flask. I mean how is Dean even doing this? How much more can he take before completely losing it? I really don’t know how he can pull himnself together so much (even though you can see he’s barely hanging on and balancing much closer to the edge each day) and still sort of “function” (the drinking as a coping mechanism aside, I mean in the end the drinking shows he really isn’t functioning or dealing). The only thing that keeps him going at this point seems to be defeating the Leviathans and even while doing this he’s just going through the motions (or am I seeing this wrong?)

    Ugh, I’m horrible at finding the right words today and to explain all the things in my head, so I’m just going to stop right here :)

  4. shamangrrl

    I’m just hoping they don’t ruin Crowley. His last few appearances on the show have been lackluster, as with Meg. Regarding Bobby, on the one hand I don’t see the writers turning such a “beloved” character so evil by making him hurt Dean, but then again, everyone else has betrayed Dean several times over and brought about physical pain, so why not add Bobby to the list? I mean, so far he hasn’t actually beaten Dean to a pulp, so why should he be any different than anyone else?

    Yeah, Bobby is going to try to rip Dean apart, isn’t he.

  5. Ginger

    The promo pictures for the finale are up. One picture has Dean/Sam cooking the recipe, and the bone is in a bowl Dean is standing behind. The other has Dean pulling the bone out of his jacket. Dean looks fit as a fiddle in both. I think we can forget about Dean being the righteous man, the drinking storyline, and the depression beyond what Dean has had for years and years (maybe since he was 4 years old). Let’s see, were there any other storylines that he may have had? Oh, gaslighting by Bobby. No pix of Bobby, so I can’t say if that one is dropped or not.

    Cas is there to help, looking no better or worse than he was in 7.21. He’s making sandwiches. Wanna bet Sam, in their newly found ‘understanding’ called him?

    Meg is there killing a Levi, but not Edgar or Dick.

    Maybe some encouraging spoiler will come out next week.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Oh, for ****’s sake. Since when are the promotional photos ever *not* misleading? Ever?

      If Castiel is there to help, there is your deus ex machina right there–Dean could be cut in half in 7.22 and still be perfectly fine in 7.23 if Castiel is there to heal him.

      Also, Meg isn’t killing a Leviathan. She’s just doing the usual splash-and-hack.

      1. castiel'scat

        Hi paula! Not sure what is going on but I have verb unable to post since last night tobthis thread or the previous review. There were glitches with website last night. I tried to post last night and today and I keep getting duplicate message notice.????? I hope this goes through.
        My words are not really important but thought you should know.
        OK… rib bone was probably too loaded and too dainty…. yep, with cas there it can still be Dean.
        Over on wtb wild speculation that dick is not true head of Leviathan … maybe Edgar is… crazy fun! I am sure there are things we will not see coming.

  6. Sunny

    So reading for the Once Upon A Time finale! It’s so nice to see Emma finally get proactive about stuff, and I too think they’ll be shipped to the fairytale world for S2. That would be awesome I think, especially since Emma would be all wtf lol.

    SPN; I don’t know what to say about ghost!Bobby except wtf. I mean I know he’s going vengeful but seriously, if he hurts Dean I hope they fry that flask until it’s crispy. I honestly wonder what they plan to do with him. Like will he be sent on his way or will he do something horrible, then suddenly be redeemed? He was whiny before but now he’s just unbelievable.

    *crosses fingers* C’mon reconciliation with Dean!

    Also I was surprised to hear about 90210. Most of the people who talk about it say it’s horrible now. GG too.

  7. Cassieo

    Thanks Paula for the round up. I am less worried about Bobby hurting Dean as I am about Bobby hurting his own chances at Roman. And I’m sure you know by now that the bone was not from Dean. The photo stills for 7.23 are out and it is a long bone the boys sharpen into the implement Dean has under his jacket in the TV Guide photo. In fact, that photo is one the CW released for 7.23.

    I don’t think Dean was scared by Bobby just apprehensive and that’s to be expected. No one has any experience with ghost going dark. In the producer’s promo, Singer talks about it and we see Sam is not against Bobby while Dean is still for trying to make it work and couldn’t care less about lore. Yes…finally a strong Dean again. They even had Dean ranting at Sam for changing his mind. I really wish TPTB would get the boys on the same page. Drama doesn’t always have to be conflict. Gamble has a lot to learn.

    And I LIKE that Dean is carrying the bone and all the photos look like Sam, Meg and Cas are following Dean! Yes…. I just hope whatever the cliffhanger about Cas and Bobby is, it doesn’t involve the brothers doing anything to either of them! I’d like a not-stresed hiatus this season. Especially with Carver on border next year.

  8. Cassieo

    I’m sorry. Typo in my last post. The sentence should read ‘…and we see Sam is now against Bobby…”

  9. Marisol

    I am disappointed that Dean does not appear to be the righteous man the prophesy was talking about but then again he is the one with the bone in his jacket so he is the one who is designated to kill the leviathan, unless he fails and Sam or Meg or Bobby, or the third extra on the right (lol), has to pick it up and finish Dick off instead. If Dean does end up killing Dick, then I am happy. I would rather see him kill the monster than provide the bone and be out of service. Besides, they just said the mortal had to be righteous, not the “Righteous Man”, so I wasn’t really expecting it to be Dean, and besides, he has never been proven to be mortal, so that put him out of the running right there.

    I am beginning to think that with the rumors of resets, the two characters who find themselves in an unexpected place are Sam and Dean who are somehow transported to some alternate reality where most of this season, and maybe last season, never happened. At this point, I am thinking that that might not be such a bad idea. But there are two episodes left and those two can still bring any Dean storyline to a conclusion. I don’t know, anything that gives Dean some kind of power role that is completed is okay by me.

  10. Arafel

    I’ve given up on specing. Just curious to see what they’ll do now. My one hope is that Dean will have a larger, more pro-active part in the finale and in taking out Dick than he’s had in the last two finales…*finger crossed*…

    Thanks for the spoilers, Paula and Heather.

  11. AFriendOfAFriend

    @Marisol:
    That is actually a possibility I never thought about before; that Sam and Dean are the ones who end up in a very unexpected place, maybe an alternate reality. I hope though that this is not the case. There are other ways to bring fan faves back without going there. To me this would actually be kind of a worst case scenario… :/ But of course that’s just the way I feel about it. I knwo a lot of fans seem to sympathize with the reset – all was a dream option. I hate that idea, because it’s a cheap way out and it would make the last 2 season completely useless…

    Anyway, the idea is still interesting though. What I have been thinking about now is, maybe the unexpected place is not a physical place but like an emotional place. Maybe Sam and Dean end up in a very unexpected emotional place by the end of the season. I mean Gamble teased that Sam and Dean will be very close by the end of the season, actually closer than they’ve ever been before. So maybe the unexpected place is an emotional one??? Like maybe they defeat the Levis and don’t tip off another problem as big as the Levis. Maybe they’ve get some time to breath, regroup and figure out how to deal with new Cas and Bobby.

    1. castiel'scat

      I thought the Edgar – Roman switcheroo was an interesting cog in the works. I don’t think Crowley is in bed with the Leviathan.

      1. Cassieo

        That site goes out for the widest speculation! I don’t see what difference it would make if Edgar and Roman were switched. There are only two episodes left.

        As for Crowley, he would be of more interest. I could see him in with the levies, or at least some of them. Or maybe the alpha vamp. Just can’t see him sitting by this whole time doing nothing.

        1. castiel'scat

          The stone says to kill the head and the herd will die. If the boys go all out against Roman or the newest Roman and he is not the head, they could be in trouble.
          Yeah… pretty wild stuff in the comment Sometimes.

          1. Paula R. Stiles

            It’s entirely possible that Dick is not the real head of the Leviathans and that another one, like Edgar, is. There’s even a conversation between the brothers a few episodes back about how Dick could have a dozen impersonators, which would explain why he appears to be everywhere and yet, is hard to track.

          2. Cassieo

            That’s interesting and I don’t remember that conversation between the boys but I can see why Roman would have clones of himself. First, as you said Paula, to be in more places at the same time, but also to throw off would be assassins especially if killing him would kill all the leviathans. That I could see. That would make in more difficult for the boys to find the real Roman.

            But if Edgar were the real head that would make Roman a ‘dummie’ or ‘puppet’ and most of those are very weak and indecisive. They don’t come across as a charismatic psychopath like Roman does. So I can’t see that kind of switch but I can see the multiple Romans. That would be a good twist.

        2. castiel'scat

          I think some surprise when they try to kill dick is likely. I find it hard to believe the boys are really double crossed by alpha since they show it in the promo. If there is a Crowley surprise it is that he is not which he seems to be. I am very interested in what ghost Bobby will pull now that paula has introduced the bone stealing twist. He is sooo out of control.

          1. Paula R. Stiles

            Hey, nobody said it would be the Alpha successfully double-crossing the brothers. It could be them double-crossing him. Or Edgar double-crossing…somebody.

  12. anotherjoy

    Thanks for the SPN spoilers, Paula. This season has been so increasing frustrating to me that I’m down to pretty much two points of purely pessimistic speculation (or really suspicion, rather):

    1) I suspect Dean will not be featured any more in the last two episodes than he has been in the last three. Apparently when everyone was mum on spoilers for Dean earlier it was because there was actually nothing to talk about. I get the feeling someone in charge somewhere is adamant about not following through on any significant Dean threads this season.

    2) I’m beginning to suspect, based on the comment about two characters finding themselves in an unexpected place, coupled with Jensen and Jared’s earlier comments in their interest in a reset or going back somehow, that the season finale will end in a reset of some sort that conveniently gives back to Carver all the options thhat would have had if he’d taken over directly from Kripke. Which makes me wonder why I should even bother watching at all. I’m just seeing very little in the way of hopeful character development for either of the leads in the next two episodes. For Jared that’s completely understandable. For Jensen that’s completely baffling.

    I just want to get back to the point where I can trust the showrunners and writers to take the story somewhere satisfying. Or anywhere at all, really. (*cue end of obsessive, whiny rant*)

  13. Sunny

    Ooh interesting reset speculation. I also don’t know how I feel about it. On the one hand it might be nice to reset back to before everything was in the crapper, yet Sam and Dean keep all their memories from the past 2 seasons I suppose. It would be a convenient way for Bobby to come back. I get the feeling they want him back and realize killing him was a major goof. And Cas would perhaps be back to BAMF and nerdy. But on the other hand, yeah it would render the last 2 seasons obsolete but well, they have pretty much been that way anyway. Only a handful of episodes each season have been good. So I don’t know…

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      I think a reset is a horrible idea. I haven’t ever seen a single reset that worked. They are the ultimate sloppy retcon. They *always* permanently disrupt the show’s continuity and utterly destroy the idea of any risk to the characters or audience commitment to the show. I sincerely hope that Gamble and her merry crew do not hit upon this final insult before they go.

  14. castiel'scat

    Actually I was starting to think they will say that the sg years were the alternate universe. At some point in 5 an angel (Michael, Gabriel??? ) created the alternate universe to teach Dean a lesson.
    Reboots are problematic; however, there has been no worthwhile character development and this would correct the errant tossing of cannon. I have noticed that the last two years have pushed Dean’s major buttons repeatedly.

    1. castiel'scat

      This would also potentially correct Dean being stripped of mytharc significance in 5 as well as the swan song debacle.

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        You guys do realise that we would then end up at the end of “Swan Song”, with Super Awesome Sammy Stu saving the world and Dean still driving the car, don’t you?

        A reset would be a very, very bad idea.

        1. castiel'scat

          Not if an alternate universe was created after point of no return to show Dean that saying no to Michael would be a disaster. Then none of the nasty ever happened. Not saying I want this. I want s6-7 to have been good and s 5 to have utilized Dean better.

          1. Paula R. Stiles

            How likely do you really think it would be that they would reset all the way back into the middle of Kripke’s last season? Especially since they could simply continue on from what they have now and still do something positive with Dean’s character?

          2. Cassieo

            I think a reset would be a bad idea. They would never go all the way back to s5 and never reset SS..that would make EK look bad and he wouldn’t allow that. And with Carver coming on board all of SG’s errors will be corrected anyway. That said, I do want to see some of the fan favs that SG killed off returned, but not by a magical reset.

            I want the special snowflake *GONE*!!!! Forever!!!!

        2. anotherjoy

          I agree with every single one of your points about a reset. My problem is that I’ve been watching (and reading the recaps when i just couldn’t bear to watch anymore) SG & company turn every possible interesting development this show could have possibly had into the absolutely worst ideas ever executed on the SPN screen. [/hyperbole] I would be appalled but not the least bit surprise if SG et. al. were exactly “clever” enough to have her coup de grace be rendering the last two seasons of the viewers’ (well, THIS viewer’s) suffering completely pointless. As well as anything that we might be hoping to happen in the next two episodes. (Sorry, more pessimistic whining.)

  15. castiel'scat

    Unlikely but better than tossing them into an alternate universe to course correct for sg mess. Lets hope the next to episodes rock with Dean covered in blood and goo.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      The problem with resetting back to just after “Point of No Return” is that Carver would not have a clean slate. We’d still be in the middle of the Apocalypse. Lucifer would still be topside. They’d still have to figure out how to take him down. Again. With the risk that a lot of fans wouldn’t want to have to rewatch that, or liked what we got the first time. So, I don’t see them ever resetting back that far.

      1. Cassieo

        YIPES!! No more Lucy, Michael, Adam, cage, pit ever! I lived through that once, I DON’T want to do it again!!

  16. castiel'scat

    I agree actually. I just find it interesting to play devil’s advocate. I truly hope we love the next two episodes and have plenty of excitement and anticipation for 8.

  17. Marisol

    I would rather the next two episodes come up with some kind of brilliant solution to all the dangling storylines, than have everything reset. Resets are lazy and dangerous, I agree, and don’t want one. It just seems that a reset idea is not outside of the realm of possiblity comsidering some of the other writing choices that have been made.

    Of course, the reset could also just be Bobby and Castiel finding themselves in the unexpected place of being alive and back to normal.

    1. Cassieo

      Now that’s a good idea. Not reset the whole world just certain parts. Last season’s Eureka did something similar. It had all the main cast back in time and returned to their own time, but will a few changes. Some people that had severe illnesses were cured, their positions in the town were slightly altered, one was now married, and one who had been engaged was estranged to her fiancé. But all the major, world altering stuff remained.

      I gave the writers some options for new plots but keep all the fav characters the same. Maybe that would work for SPN?

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        I absolutely hated the Eureka reset. It really killed my interest in the show. One major problem with any reset is that it totally confuses any viewer who hasn’t seen and obsessed over every single episode of a show, and that kind of viewer is decidedly in the minority. Another major problem is that it reduces any viewer commitment to the storyline. If the storyline can simply be retconned out of existence, why bother to get invested in any of it? Both of those things occurred for me with Eureka’s reset.

  18. castiel'scat

    According to ew Prometheus issue (may18):

    Season 7″s deeply satisfying kicker finds the Winchester boys diving into a show down with flesh-hungry demob dick Roman that ends in a visceral bloodbath. With the emotional departure of a beloved character and a dark cliffhanger, supernatural grips as well as spooks. A-.

    I was surprisingly OK with the Buffy reset when dawn was introduced even though I was no fan of dawn.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Another reset I couldn’t stand. I hated Dawn. Of course, the show was already losing me with the silly Riley plot. Ironically, I quite like that actor on Necessary Roughness (Dear Lord, he’s aged well).

      1. castiel'scat

        Ohhh Riley was awful. I loved willow in love with tara but did not like tara. All in all he was very successful introducing new characters to a tight knit group. Although I hated cordi on angel I thought she was OK on Buffy. Oz was great. love love love Anya and spike. Hated dawn.

  19. Cassieo

    What ‘bone stealing twist’? I missed that one. And I don’t think anyone double-crosses the boys, but I guess they can always try. As for Crowley, he is just to coy about giving the boys his blood for me. He was dying to get rid of Roman earlier in the season and now he wants to play games with the only weapon that will kill him? Nope, he’s up to no good.

    As for Bobby, he isn’t completely gone yet, but there are two photos were he is lurking behind Dean and then it appears Dean suddenly get all happy after very seriously reading the prophets translation. I hope he isn’t trying some mid-meld with Dean. That would irk me big time.

    And what’s ‘ew Prometheus’? According to other spoilers, 2 fan favs are in jeopardy, but no one is supposed to die. Everyone is assuming that’s Cas and Bobby.

  20. castiel'scat

    Bye bye Edgar? Interesting that they can copy vampires. Hopefully they can’t copy Crowley. No one appears to be considering the bone. Expected Bobby to possess at some point but not to go on a long-term Walkabout. Is he still focused on the weapon or does he want to throw dick around some more? Will Bobby free Crowley? The alpha was great. What’s with all the hurt feelings amongst demons and monsters lately? … see you next season… hmmm… they should be afraid of Bobby. I don’t think jp weathers the character flip flops as well as ja. Felt kinda blah overall. Was the Eve shout out a clue? Will the weapon fail and Roman will ho to eat Dean and die at the first bite?
    The ew recapper also called dick a demon so he might not understand whatever he/she saw.

  21. Cassieo

    Okay. Well the episode wasn’t bad, but it didn’t live up to expectations for me either. To bad the boys didn’t work better with Bobby, but maybe they join up next week. Seems Bobby is after Roman on his own now. Crowley is Roman’s captive, though not for long, Kevin is still with Roman and still no ‘bone’. Maybe Crowley knows what/where it is. At least Edgar is dead, though I liked him better than Roman.

    One good thing…impala’s back next week. Too bad they waited until the last episode to bring her back. Another of Gamble’s crappy ideas.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      I gotta be honest. I thought this was a pretty horrible episode, possibly the worst all season. And I hate to put the final nail in the coffin before I’ve seen the entire season, but unless next week has a huge turnaround, I’m leaning toward this being the worst season of the show by a country mile.

          1. Cassieo

            Nope, Roman doesn’t do a thing for me and I’m really tired of the ‘dick’ jokes. I’m thinking I would have liked the Edgar/Roman switch now. But that kind of plot twist is way outside the scope of this writing group.

      1. castiel'scat

        It was pretty dull and Bleh as I said before. I sadly have already called 7 to be worse than 6. I was thinking the same thing afterwards, we already knew the gist of the purgatory plot And cas’ culpability. We were with Dean… it wasn’t a good idea. The head Sam episode was awful but with Lovecraft and Bobby’s monster friend saying cas was worse than Crowley… I was on the edge of my seat.
        6 had better episodes overall and even many of the mytharc episodes were good motw.
        I saw a rehash of the season synopsis below the finale synopsis on one site. Dean’s season plot was the secret he was carrying that could tear the boys apart. Way back I thought it can’t be amy..
        Please no not amy but goshdarnit it is. How f……. lame is that. It is looking unlikely that he is hiding anything else!
        Sigh.

  22. Cassieo

    Ha! Glad you said that because I was thinking I was just to hyped up and that’s why it didn’t do much for me. I wouldn’t say it was the worst one, but for being the second to the last, it just seemed blah. Very slow and not well balanced. Did like some of Bee’s camera angles. but they really didn’t accomplish much at all. And I didn’t get why the child was brought into the whole thing. Was that another of the silly saves they do, like Sam and his save at the hospital. I really thought that was silly in here.

    And the “See you next season’? So how long did they know they were being renewed? That was funny, but did belong there.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      I can’t really blame Bee for this. It’s not his fault there was almost no action. And he doesn’t write the lines. And he does have some sweet camera angles. But this episode was just an incoherent mess.

  23. castiel'scat

    If I were Roman and the head of the Leviathan I would make sure that I had the prophet’s DNA in my Rolodex.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Oh, but some people can’t be copied, remember? They’re superspecial! [eyeroll]

      The best I’m hoping for at this point is that it’s left on such a cliffhanger that Carver can just come in next season and start off with the brothers suddenly realising the Leviathans are just like Eve and using Dean’s blood to whack Dick.

      1. castiel'scat

        I think they can copy the look just not that special creative spark. I definitely think they left it open for Dean’s blood!

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          Yeah, but Leveeta had no problems hacking into all the brothers’ info. And somebody tracked down Frank.

          I don’t buy the specialness. It came out of nowhere. I also don’t think the show did nearly as much with a monster that can copy you as it could have.

          1. castiel'scat

            No question that the only thing lamer than the Leviathan is the writing this season. Can’t sleep; watching Buffy 7.

  24. Marisol

    Wow, this episode was so mediocre. No intensity at all, no sense of urgency eading into the finale. Such a disappointment, and the last episode doesn’t look like it will add any pep to the mediocrity. At this point I don’t see how they can pull it all together in the finale and save this season.

    I actually enjoyed the first part of this season, but it is as though the show runners and writers lost heart and interest halfway through and we are seeing the results of their disinterest in the last half. What a bummer.

    I am looking forward to the Fall, the influx of new blood and ideas, and a much better season.

  25. Lily

    I thought last night’s episode was interesting. I enjoyed the Alpha Vamp, but I thought this episode really didn’t utilize him as well as they did in season 6. He was by far the scariest character they had in last season.

    Edgar should have been cast as Roman since he really is a menacing character.

    My hope is the finale will surprise us, in a good way. I definitely agree about the reset. I think the show needs to move forward and hopefully Carver can clean up the mess SG made in the past two seasons.

    I look forward to your review Paula!

  26. AFriendOfAFriend

    Guuuuys, I’m back home from AECON 3. :) I know it doesn’t belong here, but it was soooo awesome to meet Misha, Jim, Mark, Mark and Matt and talk to them; they are so nice and down to earth. Sorry, I’ll stop now, I’m just still really excited.

    I think I should propbably post this comment when Paula has written her review, because this “thread” won’t be used anymore then, but I couldn’t wait.

    So, I watched the episode really late last night when I got home from the con and I’m sure I didn’t even get a good 30% of the episode, because I was still in a haze of the con and extremely exhausted and tired. So, I’ll def be watching it again today with clear eyes and ears. One thing I kept thinking about though was the Levis and food their food supply and Dean’s drinking. I know this might sound weird, but in a strange way I feel like both storylines could be connected.

    So, the Levis use the food to dumb people down (by the way what more can they take away from poor Dean at this point,[even though he has Bobby and Cas back in some kind] first Cas, then the Impala, then Bobby and now even Dean’s beloved pie; shame on you) and make them more compliant. I feel like Dean’s drinking storyline could be connected with that. In the way like even if Dean’s drinking a hell of a whole lot he’s not dumbed down by it like all the other people are via the food (I’m not saying it’s making him more intelligent, in fact if they head this way “Dean’s drinking is a good thing in the end” [I’ll explain that later) it’s quite troubling, because what a message would it send out….

    Also I found that they seemed to be very specific that it’s just about the food and not the drinks, but maybe that were just my Dean goggles again that didn’t let me see anything else. So, here’s my theory.

    What if Dean’s drinking actually is “a good thing” in the way that if a Levi would bite him that the alcohol in his blood (+ the phoenix ash) would be kind of poisonous to them. Just like the syrup in the food is poisonous for the vampires. I know it’s a bit weird, but what do you think? Possible idea? I mean after all the episode is called “Survival of the Fittest”…

    1. castiel'scat

      Glad you had fun. I have never been to one. Fun idea about the drinking making him immune to the additive. It didn’t help with turdunken did it? There is a Stephen king short story (I think it’s called the 10 o’clock people) where the only folks able to see infiltrating aliens are the smokers, hence all the non smoking legislation.
      That said they seem to have been hammering that the boys are slower. Sam is especially stupid and he eats health food as well as road food?? Maybe Phoenix ash protects Dean.
      Survival of the fittest… of course the Levi think that is them. Question: is it really???

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