TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/02/12

This entry is part 18 of 26 in the series Spoilers 2012: Part 1

This week, we have spoilers for Once Upon a Time and Supernatural:

Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina

Not a lot of spoilers out there for the show right now. I’m surprised that ABC still hasn’t released the official synopsis for episode 22, “A Land Without Magic”, which airs May 13, but maybe later on in the week.

There are two promos up for next week’s episode, “An Apple Red As Blood”, here and here. My latest wacky theory? Henry deliberately eats an apple that Regina poisoned for Emma, in a desperate attempt to get Emma to believe by having her have to save him from a poison apple, just like Charming saved Snow White.

And according to a spoiler from Kristin at E! Online, this may happen yet:

Gavin in Port Jefferson, NY: So excited for last few episodes of Once Upon a Time! Anything you can tell us?
“Regina is up to her old apple tricks again, setting her sights on one target in particular. Alas, things don’t go according to plan (do they ever on TV?), and Henry may just end up being collateral damage. We’re sure you’re now asking yourselves, ‘Would Once really kill him off? He’s just a kid!’ We’ll just tell you this: Things are about to get dark.”

I don’t think that they could kill off a child. Granted, this show can be semi-dark, sometimes, but that would be way too much horror for them, especially when, right now, he is the only motivation that Emma has. I could, however, see them put him into a coma like Snow White was in before Charming woke her with a kiss. Either way, I do hope he’s not gone for long, because I really enjoy Jared Gilmore’s Henry.

The ratings for this week were steady from last week in the demos, but increased in the total viewers. The show received a 3.0 (same as last week) and 9.20 million viewers (up from 9.080 million viewers last week).

Supernatural (Friday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

So, we’ve got the CW promo, a first look clip and official photos (The Canadian promo and Producer’s Preview are not yet up for 7.21, though you can find the 7.20 promo here, the Producer’s Preview here, and several spoilery interviews with Felicia Day, including this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, and this one, in which the vapid interviewer immediately assumes that every Supernatural fan is: 1. female and 2. psychotic. Nice. ‘Cause real female genre geeks aren’t really cool, you know).

They don’t actually say a lot that we didn’t know, already, in the 7.21 stuff, aside from the appearance of three new angels, led by a blonde woman (What is up with this show’s thing for blonde, perpetually-irritated women in suits?). The youngest angel (in terms of actors) appears to be on the side of Team Free Will. Prayer circle for him if that’s the case, since Evil Blonde Leader appears to be quite irate with Castiel and smacks him around. There’s a hint in the promo (a flash of white light) that Castiel may end up without his powers, but that’s not certain. Since Castiel is confirmed to be around through the season finale, we can assume he doesn’t die (at least, not permanently) in this episode.

I can understand why they’re angry, since Castiel killed a whole lot of angels while he was Godstiel, not that Raphael held back from killing Castiel’s loyalists, either. If at least one of them is an archangel (and we’re not talking about Michael and Lucifer), I suppose it’s possible that the breaking of the tablet that the brothers find inside the red clay/sandstone block from Iran releases two archangels we’d never heard about before. Which is kinda lame when it comes out of nowhere like this, but not the silliest thing they’ve given us all season.

I’m not entirely sure why this dig was in Iran, since the tablet in the promos looks to be based on the Amarna letters, but I bet this is part of the writers’ less-than-deep understanding of dualism and that system being a central part of Persian Zoroastrianism. That said, Amarna is in Egypt, not Iran, which is a tiny bit far away from Egypt. The tablet appears to be cuneiform on wet clay that was then sun-baked. The difference between drying in the sun and kiln baking is that kiln baking creates pottery that is waterproof and doesn’t crumble, so it’s more durable. But it also can’t be wet, erased and reused, either. Also, bricks are not the same as tablets because they require more coarse material mixed in for greater building strength – in general terms, concrete rather than cement or pottery.

Anyway, the 7.22 synopsis is up:

“SAM AND DEAN STORM SUCROCORP TO TAKE DOWN DICK ROMAN – Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Sam (Jared Padalecki) prepare for battle with Dick Roman (guest star James Patrick Stuart). Dick’s in the final phase of his plan and the Winchesters must team up with Castiel (guest star Misha Collins), Bobby (guest star Jim Beaver), Meg (guest star Rachel Miner) and Kevin (guest star Osric Chau), the prophet, to stop him. However, Dick is one of the smartest enemies they’ve ever faced so it’s a mind game to see who can keep the upper hand. Robert Singer directed the episode written by Sera Gamble (#723).”

I snickered at the idea that Dick is smart, let alone “one of the smartest enemies” the Winchesters have gone up against. Really? ‘Cause I haven’t seen it. He just got outsmarted by them (not to mention Charlie, of all people) last week. As for the rest, that’s a mighty crowded guest star list. There’s no possible way it can work out smoothly, especially since Sera Gamble usually stumbles over logistics of even two or three characters in her scripts.

Also, there was a Supernatural con in Rome. No spoilers came out of it, but a fair amount of wank and rage occurred over Jensen Ackles and Misha Collins daring to say that they found some of the dialogue in 7.17 between Dean and Castiel to be “romantic” and rewrote it. Since Dean’s stuff with Castiel and Meg was about all I liked about that episode, rather than feeling they are not sufficiently PC, I wish they’d rewritten the entire episode. It did seem to confirm the rumours that Ackles is not a huge fan of Gamble’s writing, though, and it makes me wonder if Bob Singer directed all of the Sera Gamble scripts because he was a co-showrunner and not just because Gamble mostly wrote mytharc-heavy stuff in the past couple of years.

Finally, ratings for “The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo” remained steady in the demo at 0.7/2 and went up slightly to 1.61 million in audience. The show was again second to The Vampire Diaries on the network in both the demo and audience.

We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm, and Supernatural.


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IFPTV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/02/12

75 Comments on “TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/02/12”

  1. Ginger

    From Felicia Day interview you mentioned:

    “Joining the male-oriented show “was definitely overwhelming at first,” Felicia admitted. “It was a big blast of testosterone in my face when I walked on that set. It is such a guy set—Jared and Jensen are such guys, in a great way, but I didn’t know how to deal with it.” Felicia centered herself by channeling her “smartass” character, she said..”

    She doesn’t know how to deal with guys? The poor dear. She must have been so scared.

    “I snickered at the idea that Dick is smart, let alone “one of the smartest enemies” the Winchesters have gone up against.”

    Yep, me too, since I find Dick’s plan as dumb as Sam jumping into a badly done CGI hole. If the Levi are insatible human eaters and can’t be killed, then just go kill humans. I’m not seeing the need to make humans complacent so they willing walk into to a slaughter house. Maybe it’s just less messier this way — no need for bibs and all and the cheese spread is easier to apply.

    Frankly, I think this episode will just be about getting the weapon to kill Dick and nothing to do with actually taking down SucroCorp or killing Dick.

    SG gave an interview to TV Guide regarding 7.23, which can be accessed here (courtesy of WFB):

    I agree that the finale looks very crowded. Looks like SG’s ending will be a neutral starting place for Carver, though, with a quick wrap up of the Levi story and nothing more than a Bobby/Cas cliffhanger:

    “…the bond between Sam and Dean will deepen. “After [years] of extreme physical and psychological torture, they finally realize they’re doing the best they can, she [Sera] says. They’re a team, and that’s the place we are happy to get them to again–which is a nice place to leave them.”

    I think that pretty much leaves Carver the opportunity to take the show anywhere he wants to go, which is a good thing. I can mindwipe S6 and S7 and pretend we’re starting over from EK’s big plan.

    “It did seem to confirm the rumours that Ackles is not a huge fan of Gamble’s writing, though..”

    “It did seem to confirm the rumours that Ackles is not a huge fan of Gamble’s writing, though…”

    I watched the JA/Collins panel before the big deal was made about Jensen’s remarks and, honestly, I don’t know where all the big ballyhoo about gender came from. He and Misha were just having fun and responding to the scene a questioneer brought up. Like you, I did get the idea that Jensen has not been all that happy SG’s writing, but also that he wasn’t the only one. My speculation is that Singer has been trying to make it work for everyone this season as best he could — in fact, I think they all were.

    I also think Jensen had anticipated questions of this type and had thought beforehand of how to answer; i.e., the sort-of compliment to SG, which was very diplomatic and professional. He remains a classy guy in my book.

  2. shamangrrl

    SG said “They’re a team, and that’s the place we are happy to get them to again–which is a nice place to leave them.”

    I’d trust that more if I trusted her view of their relationship, which has always seem skewed and fantasy-land to me. I haven’t seen them act team-y or even brotherly in several seasons. I’d love to get back to a place where the brothers seem to actually like each other, as opposed to tolerating each other because of habit and circumstance. But there’s work that needs to be done to get to that point, and I can’t see it happening within the last three episodes. And with regard to Jensen, I don’t know how he remains so professional and gentlemanly in the face of the crap of the past several seasons, nevermind the past two. He’s always come across as a class act, and the joint interview did nothing to change my opinion of that fact.

  3. Lani

    Thanks for the spoiler round-up, Paula. I have to agree that the finale sounds extremely crowded and that SG’s track record is not at all confidence inspiring. That said, if it opens up Season 8 in such a way for Carver to start fresh, I’m all for it.

    “Also, there was a Supernatural con in Rome. No spoilers came out of it, but a fair amount of wank and rage occurred over Jensen Ackles and Misha Collins daring to say that they found some of the dialogue in 7.17 between Dean and Castiel to be “romantic” and rewrote it.”

    What’s also disturbing, and equally telling, is that this is the third major scene re-write this season alone that Jensen, with Jared and Misha’s backing, have confirmed as having been re-written. Prior to this season, I cannot recall every hearing about scenes being re-written with the exception of some ad libs here and there. Though judging by what Jensen said at the con in Rome, he’s been fine tuning Dean’s dialogue and so on for quite some time and that the writers kinda expect him to make some changes. There’s the big one at the end of “Slash Fiction” when Sam storms off in a huff after learning Dean killed Kitsune Amy and there was another scene re-write two episodes later Jensen mentioned at…I think Chicago Con in November. I’ll look for the link.

    I also agree completely with Ginger and shamangrrl that Jensen ever remains the professional and a gentleman despite everything, a real class act and it only makes me respect him more.

    “If at least one of them is an archangel (and we’re not talking about Michael and Lucifer), I suppose it’s possible that the breaking of the tablet that the brothers find inside the red clay/sandstone block from Iran releases two archangels we’d never heard about before. Which is kinda lame when it comes out of nowhere like this, but not the silliest thing they’ve given us all season”

    Nice theory, one I really really hope doesn’t pan out because it is really lame and it doesn’t even make sense. Honestly, I’m guessing that the one possible archangel, the cliche and annoying blonde woman in a suit, may have simply moved up in the ranks and gained more power due to the vacuum left behind. But that’s just me. I am looking forward to Castiel facing the continued repercussions of his actions at the beginning of the season. Its nice for that continuity to be around and being followed up on with Castiel’s return.

    In the link to the spoiler article Ginger gave, I found the picture more interesting than the article itself. What is Dean putting inside his jacket? It looks kinda like a stake or an angel killing blade. Curious. And Dean was also very much in the forefront of the picture too. Again, very interesting. Hopefully a sign of what is to come in regards to Dean’s storyline.

    Sorry for the rambly nature of this comment Paula. Too many thoughts, lol.

    1. Ginger

      Actually, it looked to me like the picture of each of the guys was Photoshopped from some previous episode and put together. That’s why I didn’t get excited about it.

      1. Lani

        @Ginger Yeah, maybe from separate stills but not from previous episodes so much…unless you mean the last two episodes before the finale cause on that point I can agree. Except Dean was still putting something pointy in his new leather jacket so yeah, photo shopped maybe, but the pose definitely not. Or maybe I’m just being too optimistic. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve gotten my hopes up only to be crushed.

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          Just a quick reply, as I can’t answer all your questions right this second:

          I have the TV Guide in question (print copy in front of me) and yeah, they probably are photoshopped because Dean’s figure is much larger than the other two, even allowing for perspective.

          Also, that’s not a unicorn horn. It could be some other kind of horn. Or perhaps a tooth. Which might make sense as Leviathans are supposed to be sea creatures.

  4. Sunny

    I hope they don’t kill off Henry either! So many child actors on shows are written horribly or snippy but he’s always been sort of mellow/normal. Well normal for his situation anyway. I love his character too and I hope he gets to stick around for whenever the curse is broken.

    SPN; I’ve seen some of that wank and seriously, it’s why I only go to basically 2 sites for news or whatever. Here and IMDb. While I personally think all the staring between Dean and Castiel has at times been more romantic than anything that could have been written, it does make me wonder just what was the scene like before they re-wrote it. I too sort of took it as a dig against Gamble; I think he is just as relieved about her leaving as the rest of us. We know he has not liked some of the directions she has taken Dean and I can’t say that I blame him. I don’t mind the crazy!Dean stuff or even the drinking, but even in the past when Dean was dealing with a lot he still cared about people. That is one of the things that made him so interesting/amazing…no matter what he never gave up or stopped caring about the regular people. And he did everything without having to be super speshul too.

    I’ve sorta felt like with these past two seasons, Gamble has tried to take that away from him. I’ve always thought Dean was the best hunter but in S6 he was “rusty” and Soulless!Sam was the most amazing hunter ever. Now in S7 Bobby is said to be/have been the best hunter ever. So yeah if Jensen feels stuff in that scene was OOC I’m inclined to believe him. While I wouldn’t mind more touching moments between Dean and Castiel I wouldn’t be surprised if stuff was so over the top not to be like, sincere, but instead mocking. That’s how jaded I’ve become under Gamble’s rule.

  5. castiel'scat

    Thanks very much for the spoilers and spec.

    Fun note: as I watch Buffy s4 I noticed that George the Leviathan is in episodes beer bad, where he goes caveman, and where the wild things are, where he is the first to touch the orgasm wall.

    Good catch on the exemplar for their tablet. According to the link the amarna tablet is a diplomatic letter in akkadian- the language spoken in Mesopotamia which included modern turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran. So having a similar tablet found in Iran is not so weird.

    Where does the Zoroastrianism come into play?

    Loved the con links. Such a sweetie pie. Spoke volumes about the change up.

    I am going with the flow… Hoping for happy surprises… lalalala (fingers in ears)… OK. Why a fart joke? If the angels are just into tossing around hijinks , sword play, and mild light shows… they are not archangels. Raphael found cas in the same room as chuck and exploded him.

    It looks to me like they break the clay from the suitcase and find a stone tablet. Those quick edit promos are confusing.

    Regarding the TV guide photo, it looks like Dean is putting a horn into his jacket. Hmmm. Ohhhh maybe the tip of a unicorn horn!

    I have no idea where this is leading. How can we, there has been no plot driven momentum. Apparently no ideas beyond wouldn’t it be cool to play on dragon tattoo but make her sweetly ubergeeky and non-threatening. She will be a lesbian outsider with mad hacking skills but sweet. (Apply to every episode) and make Sam wounded to highlight how he suffered to save us as well as making Dean a depressed drunk to show us he is so not Sam. Kill off characters to create the drama otherwise lacking and bring them back damaged for more drama Ugh. Sure some episodes work. Not as many as in 6 if you ask me.

    It is funny. Several sites have tried to Foster speculation. It goes no where and devolves into who has been shafted worse, Dean or Sam. I think the folks that crave the brothers the way they used to be want more sidekick Dean and hero Sam. I want Dean to be explored. I really want Dean to go supernatural. It would force his character to grow and create believable angst. It would be good for Sam not to be special. He could grow up finally. I like Paula’s old idea of making him the new Bobby. I still like cas. It seems they are going idiot-savant with him fine. Bobby is ruined for me (and yes no more idjits and balls) .

  6. Lily


    If it’s a horn, then it might signal the return of Gabriel, but it seems more like a dagger. I was hoping Sera was not writing the finale, but maybe she can come through this time.

    as far as the dialogue this year, I’m not surprised the guys would have a problem with it. I’m glad to hear that the guys speak up and make the changes that ring true for their character.

    Thanks for the spoilers Paula!

  7. Arafel

    Thanks for the spoilers, girls. Count me in with those glad to hear that JA is speaking up concerning the writing of his character. I remember a story he told way back at the first Paley convention about disagreeing with Kim Manners over a scene in S1’s Shadow because he was trying to “protect” his character. I was so happy to hear that then, and I’m even happier to hear he’s still doing it now. No one knows the character better than him, IMO-so Go Jensen! As for the wank and rage-wankers will always find something to wank about. I watched vids from the con-and like last year, the Jensen/Misha panel was the highlight of the Rome con, IMO. In relation to this particular con, I think “The Resume” is destined to be remembered in much the same way as the When Harry Met Sally skit and Jensen’s spontaneous singing of The Weight were. I’m thinking some might just be a bit a jealous/resentful of the attention that JA and MC seem to garner at this con, thus the wank.
    And this year, that wank has kept the wank down about how JP’s people apparently messed up big-time and didn’t let con organizers know that JP didn’t want to do the UK and Germany cons, even after accepting payment for them, according to con organizers. And just yesterday, I read that he’s now cancelled out on the Paris con. Three cons, at the last minute, no matter whose fault it was. Wow. That’s a lot of disappointed fans. And while I’m sure most would likely understand that he just wants to spend time with his new baby, I still would have thought that he would have issued some kind of a public apology/explanation to all those disappointed fans, even though, technically, he doesn’t have to… Anyway, my point being, this fandom lives and breathes wank-not sure if others do it to the same extent, as this is the only fandom I’ve ever been a part of.
    Thanks again for the weekly spoilers.

    1. Paula R. Stiles


      I think that Jared Padalecki probably had the kind of “Whoa, this is exhausting” epiphany that most new parents have. It’s really not predictable how much energy you’re going to have and I can’t say I blame him for trying to cut it too fine. These things happen, especially when you’re planning a year ahead of time.

      And any non-French person who would cancel a trip to Paris just because the actor they wanted to see canceled his appearance is an idiot who deserves to lose their money. Seriously – it’s Paris.

      1. Arafel

        I absolutely agree with you on why he most likely cancelled and completely understand and bear him no ill will at all. But the con-goers all found out about this just this weekend-many after having purchased tickets up to 6 months ago, with their hopes and excitement at seeing him building up all that time-to just have them dashed like that-so suddenly, and in the manner that they learned of it(at his M&G, I believe), had to have hurt and shocked many. And no one even knows why this happened the way it did, at this point. IDK, I just think an explanation as to how and why it happened the way it did, is warranted, and would be the right thing to do for the many undoubtedly disappointed con-goers.

      2. Cassieo

        Someone canceled their trip to Paris because Jared wasn’t at the con? Really! What a goof! Must have money to burn is all I can say.

        And I can see parenting at a VERY trying job, but I just thought they would have hired a nanny of sorts for aid, or had family around till the parents could handle it. If I had had the funds, I certainly would have had help. All my family was too far away.

      3. Ginger

        I don’t think JA was scheduled anyway for the British and Germany cons. Don’t know about Paris. Actually, with the baby just born, I was surprised to see JP in Italy. He just seems like he’s going to be a very hands-on Dad, and that’s great. Now’s the time for the bonding to take place.

  8. Cassieo

    Thanks for the round up Paula. Really surprised that no spoilers were leaked at JIBCon. Too bad.

    As for Ackles and Singer, I think those two are closer regarding the course of the series, than most realize. Maybe RS directing SG’s scripts is so he can correct some of the problems the series is having. And yes, I would have LOVED JA and MC to have rewritten that whole script. They would have done a much better job.

    Never thought the tablet would bring the archangels, that’s an interesting thought. As for the other two angels, I just took them for muscle and ‘throw away’ characters…the ones who bit the dust first. Never thought one was friendly with Cas, but he did have friends in heaven, nice if one proved to be with the evil femme fatale. I wasn’t sorry to see her get it in the promo.

    Didn’t know the tablet was from Iran…missed that one. Wonder if it has any relevance to the story or just a mid-east nation with a lot of ancient lore. Good to know.

    It is Friday yet?

  9. castiel'scat

    Sablegreen has her promo article with lots of photos, clips and spec, on wfb.
    Of interest to me is the spec that Bobby can affect angels in hosts the way he did with dick. She presumes he saves cas from the angel knife (don’t understand why she wouldn’t explode him) deflecting it to her. Interesting and I feel its a good call. Sorry cannot link with my phone.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      If Bobby can affect angels, it’s a bit of a retcon. If human souls are really that powerful, why would they be running from angels whenever they leave their own paradise in Heaven? Seems pretty nonsensical to me.

      They need to write Ghost!Bobby out before Gamble gets any more opportunity to screw up the canon.

      1. castiel'scat

        Preaching to the choir. I am seriously upset with the ghostbobby story. They better have him go nuts and burn the flask. That said I have a feeling the spec is on the money. I can see angels being most powerful outside if hosts… the human form has limitations but enable les them to interact with lesser beings? Now that makes little sense then for Michael to need a host against Lucifer….
        Lalalalala… it bothers me more that archangels appear to be so restrained with the finger snapping.
        Hurray for s8.

    2. Cassieo

      I thought that was an interesting spec too and she does make a good case for it. Who knows if she’s right, but it fits the spoilers we know right now. And it would be an interesting twist. After all the archangels this episode are the MOTW and they are going to lose one way or another.

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        If you guys mean this article:

        There is a huge amount of speculation presented as straight-up fact. I noticed that the word “apparently” doesn’t even appear until halfway down the page.

        We don’t, for example, know that events go in the order the article’s author presents. Nor do we know that these angels are archangels (Has it ever even been shown that archangels can be banished with an angel sigil?). And the spec that Ghost!Bobby might have any influence on the angels, when the author admits he’s not even in the promo material, is right off the chain.

        So, sorry, no, not buying that kind of spec.

        1. castiel'scat

          Always the voice of reason. Disappointed about the unicorn horn…. I like rainbows. I thought it was clear she was speculating, but yeah she is trying to piece together fragments in a way she thinks make sense.

          1. Paula R. Stiles

            I didn’t think it was clear at all. She was mixing known spoilers with speculations based on the photos and promos that she stated as if they were fact, with no distinction.

          2. Paula R. Stiles

            Just a note: I did see the renewal for season eight and, while it’s been a foregone conclusion for a while, I’m still very pleased that it’s been made official.

  10. Cassieo

    i’m sure everyone knows by now that SPN was renewed for a s8. Now the fandom can look forward to a good season with Carver at the helm. Was surprised that he was still going to keep BH though. I would think one show is enough to fill anyone’s plate.

  11. Ginger

    Nice the CW announced early, but the best news is still that SG is gone. I hope Carver remembers who the leads are in the show. Mostly, I’d like to see Dean get a substantial story for once, but I’m sure willing to give Carver a chance and see what he has planned. I hope he shows up at Comic Con this year and gives us some clues.

  12. castiel'scat

    Most of the writing on that site is not as well written and clear as yours. I do not need to read your Bio to know that you attained a high level of academic scholarship. There is a difference between fact (spoiler) and assumptions made with available evidence. I for one prefer your approach. However a lot of people are not trained to think and write that way.
    I thought it was plausible since the synopsis touted Bobby’s new trick and the writers have not been keeping kosher with Canon.
    We will know more tomorrow and hopefully appetites and intellects will be whetted.

  13. Lani

    Don’t know if anyone would be interested but here is an interesting, well thought out and discussed meta on LJ that looks at TFW and how they talk about each other…and the lack thereof of them talking about Dean without him present.

    Its a lot like what you, Paula, have said time and time again in various forms and points out the huge imbalance between the brothers and how its even skewed our views of them.

    Also count me as very happy to hear SPN was renewed for another season and with Carver at the helm! 🙂 Here’s hoping he takes some of the numerous plots and potential Dean has and takes them for a spin.

    In regards to the TV Guide pic, Paula, do you think the picture of Dean/Jensen was completely photoshopped or is there possibility it really is something Dean is stashing in his coat for the big Leviathan hunt? Any theories on where he could have gotten it? Hmmm.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      I don’t claim to be any expert at sussing out photoshopping, but I think it would be pretty difficult to photoshop Dean pulling out that tooth/horn. Also, I’ve never seen that photo before. It looks a bit like the set photos, but not exactly like any of them.

      Oh, the Lieferinxe painting shows up in the Alpha Vamp’s mansion in 7.22:

      Why, thank you.

      In all honesty, I try to stay away from discussing other show sites too much because we’re all just out there trying to give our take on the show and we all get at least some flak for it. Nobody is happy with any one site 100% of the time. I only got into it this time because people were discussing it here and asking for clarification.

      Plus, in the grand scheme of the wank this week about how Jensen Ackles must be a misogynist/homophobic pig for trying to avoid being non-PC or saying overly critical things about his showrunner’s less-than-stellar writing in one scene and Jared Padalecki is a big jerk for wanting to spend more time with his newborn, accidentally making speculation sound like new, spoilery fact just isn’t that big a deal. Not like it’s hurting anyone’s feelings or trying to force the show’s leads up onto a pedestal.

      And as for the other wank, if anyone really thinks Ackles is a homophobe who is suddenly “shocked” to discover he and Misha Collins have been creating one of the better homoerotic friendships on TV, that fan is really naive. A straight female writer trying to write two men with that kind of subtext *can* come across like a female version of a straight male writer writing girl-on-girl porn if she’s not careful. And yes, that would come across as “unmanly”, even to the two guys who have pretty deliberately been using that subtext. Gay men come in all shapes and sizes, and these two just aren’t demonstrative at the best of times, even if there were a prayer either one would ever identify onscreen in his own messy head as “gay”. I mean, Dean is, at best, bisexual not gay, and Castiel is asexual-and/or-likes-Meg.

      Anyhoo, has anyone seen the latest sneak peek? Metatron, eh? I know a few friends who are probably geekgasming over that!

      1. castiel'scat

        I missed the brouhaha … most of what I saw was glee at the perceived sg slam.

        Yes the homoerotic subtext is there and has been for some time. Hence the Meta references to Winchester and destial within episodes. Of course they know and are comfortable with it.

        Bookdal on wfb wrote an interesting assessment of this a while back. (I found it by clicking on her name.. I think she titled it the elephant on the room). Apparently she has a psychiatric/psychological background. She usually us an academic writer; however this piece is more difficult to read because she makes a lot of jokes throughout to lighten the tone. She also touches on how Dean is the truly damaged brother having lost his happy family and childhood at 4 and being denied any choice about his life.

    2. castiel'scat

      Thanks for the link. Very interesting. I am hoping that since MP and his wife are fans and they are in the older demographic they see the issues and dean will finally get some focus. For some reason I think the majority of samgirls are young because of they nature of their inevitable posts when they feel Sam is slighted. I must say I was incensed when I first started poking around on sites because they made it impossible for a reasoned discussion to proceed. A good discussion needs different points of views. I like Sam a lot less as a result.

      It seems incredible to me that tptb have treated such a magnetic character so poorly.

      1. Cassieo

        I was hoping that Mark P would start to go after the older demographics but apparently he is sticking with the CW’s current target of the teen and preteen group. Guess they still feel they aren’t big enough to compete with the big networks and the older viewers. That is never more evident than in the pilots that seem to be in the forefront for pickup. They are all aimed at the young audience. Too bad.

        As for SPN, I’m hoping Dean will be treated now as he was in season 1-3. Those were the years Dean was the leader and Sam the helpful sidekick. At least for a while, I’m hoping that’s what he will do. Don’t know what the Samfans will do but they weren’t so vocal at the beginning. It started when Sam was made into the special snowflake that could get away with anything. When other fans objected, that’s when the trouble started. It was all caused by TPTB and they need to get things back on track. Then maybe everyone will get better with Sam. It’s too bad Manners passed. He was a good balance for the series and I’m guessing if he had lived, the series would have been much better. For one thing he really respected Dean and JA.

        I did read Misha’s interview. Yes, he is talking about Cas in s8 and for the first time he mentioned Cas as a human. That would be the perfect solution and I’m guessing that is where Carver will head with him. I always thought Cas being taught to hunt by Dean would be good.

  14. Cassieo

    I like rainbows too and I never took it as the way the episode would play out. It was just speculation and fun to read.

    Will find out what actually happens tonight.

  15. AFriendofAFriend

    So I’m just going to say three things:

    First: Season 8!!!!! Finally it’s offcial!!!! I couldn’t be happier to hear that. For my taste they are more than welcome to go those 11 seasons JA mentioned at JIBCON, so that he could tell TW to suck it! 🙂

    Second: Short spec. Blood from Hell (Crowley) + Blood from Heaven (Castiel) + Blood from Purgatory (Alpha-Vampire) = Invoking Metatron (who will need a vessel?! (= Dean, who has connection to all three parts)?

    Third: Not just, but also judging from the newest set of pics for 7×22 I believe that Dean will somehow be center of attention at the end of this season. I refuse to believe in anything else as a possibility. 😉

    Anticipation for the episode tonight is killing me and blocking my creative-wild-specualtion-spinning part of my brain, so I’m unable to form more sentence whoch would make sense at this point. 🙂 But seriously, I’m really excited for the upcoming 3 episodes of this season.

    1. castiel'scat

      What the who is metatron? Count me in for Dean as weapon/vessel. Yes. I think he will be front and center too.

      1. Cassieo

        That is the first thing I wondered too. So I looked him up on Google. According to Wikipedia, he is the highest of the angels and serves as the celestial scribe.Still doesn’t explain he even he knew about the levies since they were already in Purgatory by the time the angels were created.

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          Metatron is the only angel in ancient sources who was once a man. He was Enoch, an ancestor of Noah, and arguably the holiest man in the Bible. He was also greatly beloved of God. It’s possible he knew about them for the same reason Joshua was so knowledgeable about God’s plans for the brothers–God told him.

          Anyway, I’d like to believe Dean has some connection to him, but I’m not banking on it. That way, I won’t get my hopes up–again–and have them dashed.

          1. Cassieo

            WOW. That’s more than I could find and how cool Edlund is using him. And sure, why wouldn’t god have told him about the levies.

            If this was the Carver era already, I say, yeah, Dean will be connected to him. It would explain how he could do thinks like look into an angel death and not go blind. But it’s not, so I’m doing what you’re doing and not counting on anything. I shouldn’t be so involved with this series as I am, but I can’t change that.I can limit having my hopes shattered again however.

          2. Paula R. Stiles

            Well, there’s also a “primordial” Metatron, who is the very first angel, ever. I’m guessing that Metatron could be older than the Leviathans. Angelology gets a bit confusing because so many sources do their own spin on it. So, for example, in some sources, Michael is the oldest angel and first created being (“Michael” means “like God”) and in a few Christian sects, he is even the primordial Christ or God, himself (which mashes the Trinity down to one).

            Also, Metatron is the big villain behind it all in “His Dark Materials”, but that’s modern fiction. And he has appeared in an SPN novel, but those aren’t canon. Who knows what the show will try to do with him.

            I’ve seen fan speculation in the past that Dean might be Metatron, but that’s just hopeful spec.

          3. castiel'scat

            Frankly Dean is the only one to fit the bill… and the only human in the bunch. Question sera sera… only 3 episodes until Carver.

          4. Paula R. Stiles

            Sadly, that has not stopped the show from introducing brand-new characters whose stories we are supposed to care about far more than our leads.

  16. erb


    I’ve been very perturbed by certain other sites’ either extremely careless or intentionally malicious misrepresentations of what Jensen and Misha said at the com.

    My thoughts went right along the lines of yours in that I felt it had to be more an issue of them thinking, “this is not the language these particular characters would use to speak to one another” rather than, “oh, no, we can’t let anyone think there is any homoeroticism to their relationship.” Since, come on, haven’t there been plenty of instances of that in previous episodes?

    While I agree Dean is, at best, a bisexual, I think Castiel’s sexuality is harder to define since he is an angel. In his”true” form he would be asexual. But what exactly happens when he takes a vessel? Is his sexuality totally determined by that of his vessel? Is Castiel straight because Jimmy is? Then, if Cas is hosted in a female vessel, will he be straight and responding to men, if she is? Personally, I would find it much more interesting if an angel inhabiting a vessel was omnisexual once it fully integrated with a human body.

    As far as the newest spoiler, I have to say that as a Cas fan, I’m not feeling very encouraged as to what the future holds for him. I hated that the direction the show took in deciding to place him in opposition to the Winchesters and to damage the Dean/Cas bond. I don’t want him dead, crazy, villainous, or all alone. I really don’t want him completely human, either, but I would wait and see how that was handled. Finally, I don’t want his importance to the brothers, Dean especially, to be only about what service he can offer to the brothers.

    Hopefully, the show will surprise me in a happy manner this time around. I’d like to watch, but I certainly won’t if they continue as they have these past two seasons.

  17. castiel'scat

    I could see cas not viewing sexuality the same as humans. Since meeting Dean and siding with him against heaven he has been learning and evolving into something new.

    There dies seem to be something between meg and cas. Maybe they saw each other clearly while engulfed in holy fire. I think he experimented with kissing her because of the pizza man. That said, he loves Dean. Dean is surely his sun and moon. Sure this is partly transference since God disappointed him. If he is becoming more human in his behavior u could see him feeling sexual for Dean.

    Regardless of this spec, I agree that their relationship was interesting from the get go. MC does a great job portraying him. There is a lot of potential in the character.

  18. Crowley_Gal

    I wish I had hope Dean was going to be the key to tie everything together but I’m not holding my breath. I hope that if its not Dean its neither brother.

    But I don’t have much confidence, especially after Chico6 (publicist for the CW) tweeting that there wasn’t much she could say about Sam this episode that wasn’t a spoiler for him.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Eh, well, that doesn’t mean much. Not only has this season promised much on the Sam front and delivered little, but I believe this is the episode where Jared Padalecki took a week off for the birth of his son.

  19. Cassieo

    Hahaha, Really good episode! So like the new Cas and Meg is really with the boys this time. Love it. Looks like they are really going to have a thing between them.

    No question Dean was in charge but this Sam I liked too. And loved Kevin. What a twist with the leviathans showing up. But Edlund is good at that. No matter, the boys already have the translation.

    Meg killed lady nasty angel, cool, and never would have thought the others would have not been angry at Cass. Have to say, maybe this will be a decent finale.

    Here is the promo if you are interested.

    Look forward to you review Paula. Hope everyone enjoyed this as much as I did.

    1. Ginger

      No, I did not enjoy this one. I am beyond ready for this season to end and get on with S8 where perhaps the 2Js will be put back into the lead roles in their own damned show. I do so hope that now the whole team is on-screen…well, Bobby is invisible at the moment…that the Winchesters aren’t left in the Impala eating cotton candy when the…who are they…oh, I remember, the Levi are taken down in the finale.

      1. Lani

        Oh I completely agree with you Ginger! Gah, this episode was…was horrible! Even the major ghost episode focusing on Bobby and Annie wasn’t this bad, imo. Sure it screwed with ghost canon but at least it was semi enjoyable on an entertaining level. This episode…was not. At all.

        The only plus was them finally having a formula to kill the Leviathan and Kevin was all right. Though the intro with him went waaaaay to long!

        Just…*shakes head* despite the issues I’ve had with the past few episodes, this one shockingly took the cake and at the moment, has killed the Meg character for me for good.

        And damn it, why so little Dean???? And what the heck is up with Sam’s characterization again? It feels like there was an abrupt course change set up in the last episode and coming through in this one. =/

        Paula, please reason with me!

        1. Cassieo

          Actually this Sam was much better than last week’s Sam. Last week, for me, Sam was again pushing himself into the forefront, answering questions meant for Dean and making decisions Dean should have made. Sam’s track record with decision making is very poor so he should just follow Dean and do what he can to help without making a mistake again.

          This week he was doing his part that Dean gave him. Protecting the tablet, which he lost, and then getting it back. I thought it was funny that Sam couldn’t catch Kevin till Meg helped him and then he guarded both till Dean got there. Then he did his thing with Kevin till he had the translation. I’m guessing he will not let this one out of his sight.

          Edlund has always done right by Dean for me and I think this ‘Sam” is what you will see in s8. No idea what they will do the next two episodes, and with the last one written by Gamble, I think this good Sam will disappear till next season. But at least for now, Sam was back to normal role in the brother relation.

          As for Dean, he was still way to serious, BUT he is trying to clean up Cas’ mess and yes I think he was very unhappy Cas didn’t want to fight with them. After all, Death told Dean he was responsible for Cas mess so I’d be worried too if one of my major players was backing out. I think Cas was trying in his own way to tell Dean he was sorry, but he cured Sam and now he feels he has done his part. Besides, doesn’t look like regular angels are very effective against leviathans, so maybe he’s right.

          Cas did give him his blood and I’m guessing Cas will be with the boys at the end of the season, and of course his life will be in question. Gamble is building Cas’ new character up so everyone will think he is so sweet and then she will rip him away again. Really surprised they are letting her do that again. There are not supposed to be anymore deaths of fan fav in the series.

    2. castiel'scat

      I liked it. My only complaint cas seemed to connect with everyone but Dean. Maybe that was to convey Dean has not forgiven and that Dean would never let himself be so crazy that he loses sight of the big picture. I dont think he can wrap his head around the fact that cas has no plans to clean up his mess. Cas and meg hiding in a tree…. I liked the prophet – suitably terrified – but they spent far too long establishing the character which had already been established in seconds.
      Yeah the Levi twist was good. Angels are not so helpful I guess. And yeah Dean is the leader and badass. They were so not archangels.

      1. AFriendofAFriend

        I agree. I really liked this episode. Sure it was crowded and I guess everyoen has one scene he/she didn’t like for whatever reasons. I know that I def have to re-watch it 2 more times to completely get it all, but other than that I really, really liked this episode. It was heartbreaking, but it was beautiful as well. If that is possible…

        On a completely seperate note: Guess the person who writes the official descriptions for SPN has officially no knowledge over SPN or medical conditions at all. I mean: Angels = Archangels. Comatose = Catatonic. WTH????!!

        Anyway, on to more interesting things. Right now there are still too many feelings inside of me to write all my thoughts down, so I’m trying my best to make this quick and hopefully understandable for all of you. 🙂

        1. How freaking brilliant is Jensen Ackles’ acting?! I mean, he literally doesn’t have to say a single word, his facial expressions and the look in his eyes, his whole body language, when he’s portraying Dean tell SO MUCH and maybe even more than any dialogue ever was able to say. It really strikes me time and again. His acting is amazing, because he’s that good that it actually doesn’t “feel acted” if you know what I mean. He’s seems to be really living it in that moment and I guess that’s what draws me to Dean as a character and fascinates me so much in Jensen as a person and as an actor.

        I still stand by my theory that I “presented” earlier. I believe Dean will play a significant role in the finale. But even if he doesn’t – which I sure hope won’t happen – I think there at least will have to be a major breakdwon for Dean at the end of this season. We have talked about before that it’s kind of overdue, but I mean, come on, you can see Dean is BARELY holding on. How much more can he take. There is already guilt piled up 15 miles high inside of him for all the people they saw die, people he wasn’t able to save including his own brother, his father and his 2nd father figure Bobby. One is a ghost now. I’m sure Dean feels guilty for that as well. In the way like “if I would have done a better job or if I wasn’t such a fuck up maybe Bobby would have been able to move on and go to heaven and wouldn’t have thought he’d need to stick around for us/me and is stuck being a ghost now, something that we hunt”. And then I there is all this guilt he feels about Cas – yes, I believe that he does feel guilty (On tumblr the majority just hates on Dean’s actions right now and sometimes I think jeeez guys, have we been watching the same show for 7 years? Damn, take a closer look at Dean, he might be a hypocrite at times but he is not what you make him out to be just because he’s unable to say “I’m sorry” or “I forgive you” or “I miss” you straight up. But deep inside Dean is sorry and I think in a way he also forgave Cas, the main problem for him is trusting again), in my opinion you have to be blind and deaf to not recognize that. He was the one who brought him to Sam and no matter how glad he is that Cas fixed his brother and he got Sam back, he’s just as much in despair about seeing Cas the way he is right now as when he saw Sam in that state, because in both scenarios in his view (clouded with guilt and desperation) he has been the one who “brought” that onto them.

        With Sam it was him who got Sam his soul back. Knowing putting his soul back could mean Sam will go insane.

        With Castiel it was him who brought him to save his brother knowing that maybe it would change Castiel as well. Which it did as we can clearly see.

        So he basically replaced one thing feeling guilty about with another one. He got his brother back, but now his best friend has completely lost it and right now to me it seems like Dean is well on his way to lose himself big time.

        And then there is of course the blodne haired lady angel who shoves it right into Dean’s face that “Castiel was lost when he raised you from perdition”. Add one more bucket of guilt to Deans emotional life that currently is a trainwreck and which just seems to be getting worse.

        So, honestly, how much longer can Dean go on like that without really breaking apart? So I say even if Dean isn’t the one to take down Dick Roman (which I refuse to think) there is def going to be his breaking point. What do you think?

        Dear that was long already… I promise to make the rest shorter.

        2. Castiel. What can I say about him. Castiel to me seems weirdly happy. Happier then ever before really. At peace. Almost innocent despite all he has done… Childlike at best, maybe even a bit authistic. Don’t know what to make out of that. And the scene between him and Dean and the “Sorry” game, well there are a lot of things you can take from that scene.

        3. Read a rumor about Jeffrey Dean Morgan being in 7×23. I guess that is a hoax, but if not here’s a nice little theory. It goes with something I read online somewhere as well. I could remember wrong so just take this as really weird idea spinning. That other thing was that Metatron was first human and then became an angel.

        So, just crazy theory. Assuming this. That Metatron was in fact human once and then became an angel and JDM would really be part of 7×23 then I’d like to see him as Metatron. I mean, he was climbed out of hell and then just vanished into thin air. Who knows, maybe he’s an angel???? Also, if that really is true and somehow JDM shows up as Metatron/Angel/John Winchester or whatever in the finale this could be interesting. Especially when recalling that Dick Roman is playing a mindgame with the boys and what could hurt and confuse both boys more then seeing their father again. Whatever he might be.

        Okay, that’s it. I’m pretty sure the JDM being in 7×23 thing is complete bullshit, so just scratch this crazy thinking of mine. I’m going to re-watch the episode now. 🙂

  20. AFriendofAFriend

    Oh yeah. Just one small thing I forgot. Anyone else feels we’re heading towards “The End/2014” world of SPN? Not all puzzle pieces fit, but I would say Dean and Cas both are seem to be heading down that route.

    1. Marisol

      I didn’t see this as path toward The End at all. I would actualy be so disappointed in the show if they even went in that direction. That would mean we would be back to the Sam/Lucifer focus, which we hopefully just finished forever, and the hopelessness of that episode will overwhelm the rest of the series because we know that in The End scenario our heroes lose everything, not just their lives, but the epic battle they fought their whole lives against evil. Who wants to watch that? The PTB would be foolish to follow that route — the fate of the Winchester’s would be spoiled, their battles pointless, not to mention completely depressing, no point in watching the show anymore. So I guess my answer is no, I saw no similarity and am horrified at the thought that they would even consider going there — in a ranty sort of way. Sorry!

      I thought Dean was great here, just responding to the events in a very Dean way. He is tired, and nuts snd doing his best to combat a situation that is crazier than he is. I didn’t understand Cas here as much, he didn’t really make much sense to me and I hope he gets his Cas back before the end of the season. Dean’s reaction to him seemed right. Dean always cleans up his messes and would have a hard time understanding why Cas won’t.

      I thought it was funny that Sam was kind of dumb in this episode. Nice change.

  21. Sunny

    Just thought I’d pop in and add my few cents of which there aren’t many. I didn’t like this episode either, which is a bit odd for me because usually Edlund can do no wrong in my eyes. But I really didn’t like it. Meg Sue killed any enjoyment I could have found from it; though I did like Kevin and hope he survives the finale. I too just want this season to be over. I wish next week was 2 hours so we could just knock it out in one go.

  22. Ann Emmess

    I feel so pathetically grateful, in a “crumbs from the table” kind of way, that — I *guess* — we now have a specific, coherent reason why Dick has been wary of Dean from the beginning? Not Phoenix ash, but the Righteous Man, which actually serves the purpose about equally well. Huh.

    But I’m so trained to expect utter ineptitude — ineptitude that breaks every barrier of logic and common sense — that I’m already half-sick waiting to see how they will mess up something. This. Simple.

    1. castiel'scat

      Yes this does explain dick’s fear of Dean; although how would dick know this if only God and metatron knew it before the keeper of the word. I guess cas knew that the word of God had all answers and was buried in the vault of the earth???

      I have always thought the righteous man was a vague identification, especially since we were told that john could have filled the role, albeit by azazel so perhaps bs. Servant of heaven seems more apt to me. Yeah something for Dean! (of course discussion underway how it can’t be Dean and must also apply to Sam, yada yada).

      It bothered me that the second angel didn’t grab kevin and run. If you have teleportation use it.

      Sam seemed especially limp to me… in a stupid goody two shoes way.

      Dean was so Dean throughout. Badass yet heartbroken.

      Not sure what to make of Meg.

      If it is the blood of the fallen… fallen angel…. leader of fallen humans …. how is the alpha vamp fallen? Wouldn’t Dean be the fallen monster? I know … got those Dean goggles on again.

  23. castiel'scat

    I agree that it hurts dean to see cas that way. I thought he had forgiven him in bai. However both ja and MC don’t see it that way. I do think he’s flummoxed because he needs cas and cannot understand why cas would not feel the need to help them clean this mess. I think the comment about’ caring messing angels up ‘ shows that he doesn’t blame cas. Hester’s comment to him was harsh.

    Ja’s acting is amazing. He is still showing us that Dean is not OK. He will soldier on to get the job done. He is increasingly badass and is likely to become over the top ruthless when the fight is on. I still think Dean will figure strongly in the final. In the TV guide photo he is wielding the weapon (blood soaked rib).

    I personally do not like the scenario that we will end up at the end… that makes it all pointless and their journey pointless. However I can see cas and Dean mindsets being closer to what we saw then. Remember Lucifer is extremely prideful; him saying no matter what you for it will end here is meaningless in that context. He certainly didn’t believe Sam could take control. Also Zachariah showed that to Dean. It might not have been the future- just an alternate universe created by Zachariah to convince Dean to say yes.

  24. Ginger

    I do not believe for one minute that Dean is “the righteous mortal” (it wasn’t ‘righteous man’). I will not be surprised at all if we end up with another badass-free Dean season.

    For the record, both Misha and Jensen has said that Dean does not forgive Cas in S7, so I think Jensen is doing a great job showing that Dean has not forgiven Cas, but still feels deeply for him.

    For the record, I am not happy at all that the Dean/Cas BFF’s have now been given to an unconsecrated ‘thing’ between Cas/Meg. (I guess looks don’t mean anything to Cas.)

    I am also not happy that, once again, they took something unique from Dean (the killing of an angel) and gave that to Meg now.

    I am not happy that I am going to have to endure Meg in S8. I liked her when she had that love/hate sexual tension thing going with Dean. Now I find her boring and stale. I am totally pissed that Dean is working with her.

  25. Cassieo

    We are not going to end up in “The End” scenario. People are picking up that because they see Cas as he was in The End. That Cas was great and I’m glad they brought that one back. But that Cas had no powers and that world had the virus. The myth is all over, gone, finis. That time line was altered. The Lucifer/Michael/cage stuff is over.

    Dean is not the only character that has been called ‘righteous’ in the series. Yes, John was, but JDM is not coming back. And no one is taking a ‘bone’ from Dean. Maybe the ‘bone’ is what he was hiding in his jacket in the TV Guide pic.

    It could also mean Kevin and I can see him not surviving the season. Dean and Sam do. SO while they may not be directly in the kill, they direct it’s happening and get all the parts they need for the kill.

    As for Sam, this Sam is a good Sam. This is the Sam I’d like to see for a while. Just being shotgun for Dean. That is his best role for the brothers. Here’s hoping he stays this way for now. Limp is good. And Sam has no arc now, so here’s hoping he stays this way. At least he isn’t making any more messes for Dean to clean up. And this time his goof, losing the tablet, he cleaned up himself. I can see a time when he would have gone to Dean and said he lost it, and then Dean would have to get it back for him. He, and all the others, just need to do what Dean tells them and nothing else.

    As for Meg, I like her and am glad she is helping the brothers. If she survives into s8, maybe she will be the new big bad.

    Yes, I’d like to see them do it all themselves, but if Dean leads the group, I’ll be happy for now. Next season, things will be different. But cleaning up the rest of this season will involve supernaturals like Meg, Cas, Alpha vamp, Crowley and a ghost.

    By the end of the season, Dean, and supposedly Sam, realizes he has been doing the best he can, and that that is what he has been doing all along. He drops the whole guilt and low self worth image. Gamble stated that in the TV Guide article. Do I believe do believe him. I can see Carver wanting that as his starting off point. And I really have to think Carver told TPTB how he wanted the series to end for him next year.

    It still makes me nervous with Gamble writing it, but there is a possibility she didn’t have complete control over it. If the ‘good’ Sam continues next week, I may start thinking that Gamble didn’t control the season’s end. But if he goes back to what he was in GWTD&DT,(ie, thinking, making decisions and speaking for Dean) I’ll know Gamble has brought her special snowflake back.

    Anyway, just my 2 cent worth.

    1. castiel'scat

      Yes I definitely leaped to the conclusion that the weapon Dean is concealing is a bone … then rib bone… then Dean’s rib which he would survive, especially if cas extracted it.

      I will be mad if they threw us another bone (ha) only to Yank it away so quickly. Ja is also showing us a Dean on the verge… so happy to see badass again.

      I thought they were setting us up to have Crowley as the big bad (Meg’s comments) with the current integrated team fighting him (boys, negative and cas). Meg appears to be the cas equivalent in a demon… loyal and learning to adapt to Winchester inspired changes. They are an odd couple. Cas must see good in her.

  26. Cassieo

    For some reason the second last paragraph was not right. It should read

    By the end of the season, Dean, and supposedly Sam, realizes he has been doing the best he can, and that that is what he has been doing all along. He drops the whole guilt and low self worth image. Gamble stated that in the TV Guide article. Do I believe Gamble, no, but Singer has hinted at something similar and I do believe him. I can see Carver wanting that as his starting off point. And I really have to think Carver told TPTB how he wanted the series to end for him next year.

  27. AFriendofAFriend

    @Marisol: I agree with you in hoping they won’t be going to head towards “The End” exactly the way it was represented in said episode. It would be a pretty hopeless situation. Just like @castiel’scat I always took the futue in “The End” more as an alternate reality, so I don’t think we will be seeing Lucifer again and everything will happen exactly the way Zachariah showed it to Dean, but I think that the mindsets of some of the characters seem to develop in a certain direction that def reminds of their characters in 2014.

    @Ann Emmess and @castiel’scat: I also think that the “Righteous Man/Mortal” (Dean) plays a significant role. I’ve been thinking about it before, I may even mentioned it in the comments to another discussion on here, but I’m not sure… doesn’t matter. I always thought that it applies to Dean more than to Sam. He was “The righteous man who started it and he is the only one who can stop it.” Of course this has been said in regards to defeating Lucifer, but I think why wouldn’t it fit now as well? I would certainly like it to be Dean, but I guess I don’t need to state this again, because everyone on here knows I love Dean and the way Jensen breathes life into this character. And @castiels’cat: I don’t mind the Dean goggles. I’ve been wearing them all season long as well. 🙂 And yes, I love seeing this badass Dean as well.

    @Cassieo: I hope Dean will regain a more positive world view by the end of the season, but I really doubt that all his issues will just vanish into thin air. And to be honest I wouldn’t find that to be very satisfying either. He should be shown working through his issues, but flat out make them disappear from one moment to the other? I don’t know… It would completely change Dean as a character to the point it simply wouldn’t be Dean anymore. It would take away at least 4 seasons of character development and logic Dean acts in. Jensen Ackles said it himself at Jibcon this year that Dean needs the pain and the guilt in his life (and the being the big brother) to validate himself in it and as a person. That is just who he is. If you mean it in the way that Dean should start giving himself credit for the things he achieved and recognize he’s doing the bst he can and lighten up on his self destructive behaviour I’m all with you, but for Dean to completely let go of all his issues would make Dean be out of character for the next season, but that’s just my point of view. 🙂

    Still rooting for Dean to be the key to defeat the Leviathan. I always will. 🙂 Oh, where all this positive thinking comes from?! I wish I knew and could integrate it into my daily life and not just into the speculations about a tv show. Haha. Cause I’m usually a very pessimistic person…

    Looking forward to your review Paula. 🙂 I’m sure you will point out tons of stuff that I didn’t catch on the first or second watch.

  28. Ann Emmess

    Various sites have posted the full legible text Kevin translated. (A search for “bone of the righteous mortal” takes you right to them. Hee.) Two thoughts:

    a) It sounds like there’s a hive mind so if you take out leader Dick, you take out the whole Levi herd. If so, I only care because I wouldn’t mind keeping Edgar. But the writers don’t seem as though they ever really appreciated what they had in that performer.

    b) “Leviathan cannot be slain but by a bone of a righteous mortal, as light and good as the Leviathan are hungry and dark, washed in the three bloods of the fallen”

    I agree now — that won’t be Dean. They just wouldn’t do “righteous mortal” if they meant Righteous Man. It would be a pointless dodge. And on other sites, I see people trying to parse out whether this could possibly be Bobby or John. I don’t see how.

    It actually struck me that I could see a way for the bone to come from Cas (if he becomes mortal, which many people speculate he will, and if the irritating Zen schtick somehow = “light and good.”)

    But at this point, my money’s on Adam. Maybe Michael kept him “light and good” in the cage, for SPN values of light and good. There would be a cutesy symmetry with “Adam’s Rib” since that’s what the bone seems to be, and it would explain the Michael paintings in the Alpha Vamp mansion.

    And it would cut Dean out of the loop entirely. I believe I’ve made my case.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      John and Bobby’s bodies have both been torched and they’ve both been thoroughly deconstructed as “light” or “good” characters. They were mean drunks when they were alive and they didn’t improve with death.

      Castiel is a possibility, but he has a boatload of blood on his hands and a lot of the fandom is still angry with him over that. Also, he took off for parts unknown. If he came back, yes, they could use Jimmy’s rib, but they could also use Dean’s because Castiel could heal him.

      Adam was a traitor and of the worst kind. He betrayed blood family who were in the process of trying to save him when he did it. People tend to forget that. More to the point, his body is almost completely inaccessible. In order to release it, the brothers would have to release Michael and Lucifer, which would entail the brothers having to deal with being vessels all over again. Also, Dean is the only one who even remembers Adam and, finally, Jake Abel’s tweets indicated he didn’t come up to Vancouver in time to film 7.22.

  29. castiel'scat

    That’s what I thought paula (cas performing extraction/healing ) and he is in final episode.

    Righteous mortal vs righteous man… semantics … kevin translated the word and kids are so PC these days…. such a bloody big deal was made of it in s4..
    Aside from the bloodshed in hell, Dean has always thought of others first. He is the most unselfish human on the show. I think being the servant of heaven and the Michael vessel qualifies him as being light and good. Sg hasn’t beaten me down yet.

    Anyhow, Bobby, seriously? He killed his dad and his wife and has shown questionable judgement. John …. also questionable judgement (killed Ellen’s husband so he wouldn’t slow him down).
    Adam seemed spoiled and weak and full of pride and selfishly and disloyal. Sam is an abomination and jumping in the hole did not cleanse him since he came back a stone cold killer and now that he is whole feels no guilt because hey he like suffered a lot.

    What confuses me is the alpha vampire … why are vampires fallen monsters. Also since they showed his Levi meet and greet in the promo I am thinking maybe it is the Levis that will be double crossed. After all a major slice and dice operation interferes with vampires feeding. They appear to be separate from Eve and greedy so I do not see why his agenda would mesh with dick’s. Since dick is the only kill , this lame storyline will be over in two episodes mercifully.

    I have no idea why the alpha has a Michael painting. Perhaps he’s very cultured. The only way I see Michael being released is if God intervenes or if kevin being endangered calls him since he is the surviving archangel of heaven. Yeah both reaches but someone will save kevin since it is God’s will that prophets are protected.

    1. Cassieo

      I don’t get why the alpha vamp has a mansion at all, but it may come from the concept that the man the vamp legend came from was of royalty. And yes, I can see him having religious paintings to look at. At least now we know why it’s in the series again.

      As for the bone, nope I won’t get sucked in again that it’s Dean. Yes, Cas can remove it with no pain and heal him, but no reason that it has to be a rib at all. I didn’t see it in the text as a ‘rib’ just a bone, and teeth, horns, fingernails are all bone too. What Dean is putting under his coat, in the TV Guide photo, if it’s real, is a horn of some kind and a horn is a bone.

      And I don’t think the term ‘mortal’ was just to throw fans off. While ‘mortal’ often refers to humans, it doesn’t have too. It just means something that is subject to death. Now I may be giving to much credit to the writers, but I’m thinking it’s going to be someone who we haven’t met yet. Not a Winchester or a prophet or an angel but someone or something else.

      I don’t see why a vamp is pals with the levis either. But Crowley wanted to be so must be some advantage to it. Course we all know the doublecross doesn’t work because the synopsis for the finale has the boys and all the key players in it. So it’s just another filler to take up time…maybe to give us a MOTW for that episode.

      @AFriendofAFriend – Dean will always feel guilt at anyone who he has lost under his command. That is because he is the most selfless character the show has. Even Cas doesn’t feel guilt for what he did. But Dean needs to understand that his actions were not wrong, he didn’t kill his friends the war did, and if it hadn’t been for him and his friends, many more would have died. He wouldn’t be Dean if he just forgot all about what happened, so no, I didn’t mean that. But all this baggage Gamble/Kripke has saddled him with will be gone. Maybe Gamble is going to try to make amends with the Dean fans for the mess she has made of Dean’s character, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

      1. castiel'scat

        You refer to Dracula or Vlad the Impaler? I guess he was from the rough side of the royal tracks.

        Good catch on the definition of mortal.

        Horns are not bones in the strictest sense. There are structural differences that enable one to differentiate between carved bone, horn and tusk artifacts.
        I was unsure how they differed chemically so I checked wiki, which said that horn was a pointed projection of the skin on the head of various animals, consisting of a covering of horn (keratin and other proteins) surrounding a core of living bone.
        Hard to tell from the photo what Dean is concealing. At least we are starting yo spec. Fun times!

        1. Cassieo

          Yep…love to spec. And with the little amount of research the writers seem to do, I can see them mistaking a bhorn for bone too. And your right a horn is an outgrowth of skin cells.

          As for what Dean is hiding, I’m guessing the photo is real, just not good enough to see what it is. Whatever it is, I’m guessing it’s what the series is calling a ‘bone’ for the spell. As much as I’d like to use your Dean goggles, I’ve been burnt too many times. There’s a saying “Fool me one, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Needless to say, I’ve shamed myself more than once, but no more. I really don’t think Dean will be a BDH till next season.

  30. castiel'scat

    Love the review. Wow, I don’t know how I spaced on the Eve connection. Obviously their angel powers were negated. Yeeesh. You know me I have been screaming Phoenix blood all season.

    Dean bathing in blood and goo….doh… happy…

    Not a demon nor a chomper… Meg clearly knows what Leviathan are… why wouldn’t Sam talk to her about them. It reminds me of how Buffy and the scoobies treated spike… except I really love spike. I only like Meg. Either she is evolving or she is very patient and playing a long con presumably to release Luci. She definitely is smarter and more disciplined than the average demon. She certainly is not acting as crazy or as scary as in s1-2. She was calmer in 5 but yes still a baddy. Despite releasing the hounds, she did have a weird fascination with cas.

    There are a lot of Dean haters. I do not understand it. He is awesome. They clearly do not get subtext. It is driving me bonkers to read that righteous mortal applies to anyone but Dean! Idjits. How many times did we hear that in s 4. Regarding kevin, I thought he was great with him. Very calm, very parental. Commiserating. Obviously he was speaking from experience.

    I think ‘monkeys’ is an angelic term of derision for humanity. Didn’t Uriel use it?

    I think his comment about angels breaking if you try to get them to care. Indicates he has forgiven cas or at least recognizes that he wasn’t human and couldn’t deal with being an individual and the whole free will business. People hate on Dean for always telling cas what to do and what was needed. Fact is that’s the way cas is designed. Dean still hates what he did I am sure. He feels sadness and remorse. I am sure he felt responsible without Hester’s snark. And he feels lonely because for that short time he felt like he could count on cas to always have his back. Now after cas betrayed him he refuses to help clean up the mess. Is he learning not to hold others to his exacting standards.

    Very excited about the bone and blood business. Maybe somehow Dean’s kickass Phoenix blood will figure.

    Cannot wait to see comments. Dying for Friday.

  31. Paula R. Stiles

    I don’t know if they will take a rib from Dean, but it sure sounds like they’re hinting that way. They’re talking about the righteous mortal and Bobby is creepily abusing Dean, while Dean looks scared of him, and there’s the thing in the synopsis about Bobby trying a dangerous new ghost trick…ghosts can reach into people’s chests, they can probably yank out a rib.

    I’m not anticipating a fun end to that relationship.

    1. Cassieo

      Why does everyone think it’s a rib? I read bone. Has it something to do with Adam’s rib? How did fans get on that? Just wondering what I missed.

  32. castiel'scat

    You can lose a rib and survive. Ladies used to remove ribs to have smaller waists. The photo looks like a rib to me. I jumped to that conclusion immediately. But then I also jumped to Dean. Don’t know what rationale others are using.
    Oohh paula….Bobby?!

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