TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/25/12

This entry is part 17 of 26 in the series Spoilers 2012: Part 1

This week, we have spoilers for Once Upon a Time and Supernatural:

Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina

A lot of interviews came out, talking about who August is (All spoilers point to Pinocchio, especially since Baelfire is out) and the finale. You can find the Hollywood Reporter interview with Jane Espenson here. The TV Guide one is here. the E! one here, and Jane Espenson teases about the finale in EW’s spoiler room here.

Not really a lot of spoilers, per se, just a lot of “OMG, this is HUGE” talk from Jane.

Spoiler TV has HQ photos up for the episode “An Apple Red As Blood” here.

E! Online has a spoiler up about a death occurring in the last 3 episodes of the season. I have no idea who that one is!

Nelsonhere: Please, give me some good scoop on Once Upon a Time! Will we see Belle again?
“Yes, you will. And here’s even better scoop: Someone completely majorly shocking will die in the last three episodes of the season. It’s the kind of death you can’t imagine could possibly stick!”

They also have a spoiler up regarding the synopsis line talking about Henry begging Emma not to leave town:

Amy: Got any more Once Upon a Time scoop?
“We see a lot of magic on Once but the most powerful is true love. Consulting producer Jane Espenson explains that the one person that Emma truly loves is Henry, so why in an upcoming episode might she be leaving Storybrooke and Henry behind? ‘It would take a lot to make her do that,’ Espenson explains. ‘The important thing to her in this town is Henry. If Emma decided to do anything drastic then it would be because she felt it was in Henry’s best interests.’”

Honestly, I think if Emma considered seriously leaving town and leaving Henry behind, that would kill the character for me. I just don’t buy that she would seriously leave Henry, not now, not knowing what she knows about Regina. Maybe if it’s a ploy or part of a larger scheme, I could see it, but the one thing that they have left with Emma is her love for Henry. They’ve taken away her ability to tell when someone is lying; they’ve neutered her when she goes up against Regina so Regina will always win. If they have her seriously think about leaving Henry in Regina’s hands, that’s too much. Hopefully, they won’t do that!

The promo for the next episode, “The Stranger”, is up on Youtube here.

And finally, ratings were up this week. The demos were 3.0 (up from 2.8/8 for the last new episode) and 9.080 million viewers (previous week was 8.36). Those were nice jumps, considering the show has been hovering at the 2.8/.9 mark for the past few new episodes!

Supernatural (Friday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

There was a producer’s preview up for 7.19 last week (The one for 7.20 will probably be up later today). In addition, we saw a few interviews with Jim Beaver. Beaver was cagey, saying he though Bobby would be in the show through the end of the season (already confirmed by set photos) and possibly into season eight. Keep in mind that the storyline for season eight has not even been broken, yet, let alone blocked out (because there has been on official confirmation that the show will get a season eight), and that Beaver is very unlikely to spoil how Ghost!Bobby ends up at the end of the season. So, take it with a hunk of rock salt.

Beaver also essentially confirms that Ghost!Bobby will turn pretty rabid at some point and that his focus will be very self-centred rather than altruistically inclined toward the brothers. As you all know, I am not at all thrilled by the way they’ve brought Bobby back and I don’t like Ghost!Bobby at all. The last listed interview sums up why – the idea of trying to handwave plotholes as just ghost powers being “inconsistent” and “unreliable” is stupid. Nothing before on the show (and we have seen the ghost’s point of view a few times, now) has ever indicated that ghost powers are either inconsistent or unreliable once the spirit learns them. Or even that hard to gain. They’re just difficult to master without going eventually bonkers.

Also, if they killed off Castiel and Bobby because they were dei ex machina, why do we now have Ghost!Bobby the super-duper deus ex machina?! I mean, can’t a character be effective without being supersomething? This makes me think more and more that it is a very good thing we’re getting a new showrunner.

The official synopsis for 7.22 is now up:

“SAM AND DEAN SEEK OUT AN ALPHA – In order to defeat Dick Roman (guest star James Patrick Stuart) and the Leviathans, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) must locate three key items. Castiel (Misha Collins) helps with one but for the last objects, the Winchesters must face two of their strongest opponents – an Alpha (guest star Rick Worthy) and Crowley (guest star Mark Sheppard). Meanwhile, Bobby (guest star Jim Beaver) tries out a new ghost trick that ends up being very dangerous. Guy Bee directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb & Daniel Loflin (#721).”

Not sure how to take this one, since the main word that comes to mind is “overcrowded”. “Two Minutes to Midnight” was this crowded and it ended up being horrendously rushed. Which is too bad because Bee is generally a good director and I like Rick Worthy. I just wish his sinister Alpha weren’t crammed into an episode with Crowley, Ghost!Bobby and Dick. Also, the “three key items” thing sounds like the kind of Dungeons&Dragons plotting that we got in Worthy’s last appearance, “Family Matters”. Dabb and Loflin, well…they’re variable. They’ve done some good stuff and they’ve done some pretty bad stuff. Hard to say if they’ll rise to the challenge of a mytharc-heavy penultimate episode.

As for what new trick Ghost!Bobby will try, I’m guessing he’ll try to possess one of the brothers, probably Dean. Do I think he will be able to possess Dean? I sure hope not, but I wouldn’t put it past this show to try it and take away yet one more thing that has been unique to Dean.

Not feelin’ Crowley one way or the other. If he’s a craven weasel like this season and season five, great. If he’s King Toad like last season, bleah, no. He works best when he’s squirming with someone’s foot on his neck.

I’ve seen people suggest that blood will be the key (the title and all). It could be or it could be something really random. At this point, ripping off Demon Knight would be a step up for the writers.

Note that there is no mention of the archangels in this one, even though Kevin the Prophet is supposed to be in the last three episodes. No mention of any personal arcs for Sam and Dean, either. Sam doesn’t surprise me. Jared Padalecki really had his hands full during the filming of 7.21 and 7.22. Dean, well…they’ve hidden things before about him. Let’s hope they’re hiding things now, because if the last four episodes become All About Ghost!Bobby, it could be a mighty dull end of the season.

The CW promo for 7.20 is up, as is a clip and an uncharacteristically uninformative Canadian promo. The CW promo is very Felicia Day-centric and pretty stupid. Don’t get me wrong. I liked the show, Chuck. But that spy spoof tone does not fit Supernatural. I’m also not wowed by how the brothers barely show up or that what the promo seems determined to demonstrate is that Day’s character, Charlie, is: 1. a lesbian and 2. going to have to try to seduce Dick Roman at some point. Who cares about her sexual orientation, especially since Dick is a Leviathan and hardly interested in human sex? Was the fact that Guy in “Season Seven, Time for a Wedding!” was pretty obviously gay so important that it had to be underlined in the promo? No. And it wasn’t. So, why, for the second episode in a row, is the show so obsessed with having the big thing we know about a female recurring character, above all else, be related to her sexuality? That bothers me. A lot. Sure, it’s nice to have GLBT characters on the show, but we women are more than who we bang or like to bang.

The clip is more promising. Sure, it’s cringy humour of the type they overloaded on in “The French Mistake”, but Dean gets some funny lines and Day fields it well. Fingers crossed the episode is more like the clip than the promos.

Airport pics of Misha Collins and James Patrick Stuart leaving Vancouver after the end of filming 7.23 pretty much confirmed that Castiel and Dick are both in the season finale – in case anyone was truly in doubt. Still no word on the season finale synopsis and it’s not confirmed who is the writer of it.

Filming for season seven wrapped on the 20th.

Finally, ratings for “Of Grave Importance”, the first new episode in a few weeks, were a solid 0.7/2 and 1.570 million. To put that in perspective – the show was second to The Vampire Diaries (which barely topped a 1.0 and two million) on the network in both the demo and audience.

We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm, and Supernatural.

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IFPTV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/25/12

59 Comments on “TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/25/12”

  1. Ginger

    Here’s a link to an interesting article in the New York Times about the shifting viewing habits in televions:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/business/media/tv-viewers-are-missing-in-action.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1#

    Basically, this is the interesting part:

    “Another explanation behind the steep decline in network shows is the way networks now parcel out episodes of their more popular offerings. Around March, they begin inserting strings of repeat, which, more than ever, viewers avoid. Jay Sures, a partner in the United Talent Agency, said his company’s research found that “the disruption of the ordered pattern of episodes is a big issue.”

    Viewers can go weeks without seeing a new episode of a favorite like the comedy “Modern Family,” he noted, and they do not know when a new episode will be shown. Last week a new episode of “Modern Family” scored the lowest rating of the season.

    At the same time, viewers who scheduled the show on a “season’s pass” on a DVR will learn later that they have a new episode to watch — and when they do, they will not be watching something else on live television. And that, many television executives say, may indicate a fundamental shift in how viewers consume television programming. They no longer watch nearly as much of it while it is broadcast.”

    I know I am sick to death of all these long breaks between new episodes, so I’m glad that is getting some press. Although the CW isn’t mentioned, I think SPN is holding their viewing numbers pretty well when considering the various avenues viewers are using these days.

    No, none of the spoilers are enticing me, yes, I’m afraid it’s going to be all about GhostBobby.

    Another thing I hope Carver does is put a stop to the stupid editing of flipping back and forth between a couple of stories being told to the point that there is only one minute or less shown of each scene. I’ve noticed that a lot this season, and I don’t like it.

    I’m also afraid this Fri’s episode is going to have the brothers in the background again.

  2. castiel'scat

    Thanks for the spoilers and spec.

    Hey. Demon Knight was solid… and heads and tails above bordello of blood.

    I truly hope Bobby does not possess Dean. I would say no way except he is now supercharged… so?
    Bobby may just be able to slow dick down or steal something rather than totally save the day. Beaver does make it clear that Bobby was behind all of the saves. I guess I will finally stop kicking that bucket around. (Still hoping I will like the end days. Flummoxed as to why Carver would jump onto a sinking ship. He must have some love for the show and thinks he can save it)

    It looks like Day got Flirty with the security guard to gain access to Dick’s office not dick.

  3. shamangrrl

    I love Felicia Day, Dean is adorable in the clip – but I probably won’t watch this one live. Bobby grinds everything to a halt, even in the clips, and Dick… Well, he’s not exactly inspiring me toward anything other than sleep. But Felicia Day (adorable!), Dean (adorable!). So, yeah for that, I guess?

    1. Ginger

      I don’t know who Felicia Day is, and don’t really care one way or the other. Even if she is a lesbian, one would think that she knows how to flirt with a girl…and flirting is flirting, isn’t it, so why does she have to be coached? She looks ‘challenged’ and faux cutesy to me. But, I do agree that Dean is adorable in the coaching scene.

      1. castiel'scat

        Day was the ingenue in Dr horrible ‘s singalong blog. She created and stars in the web series the guild.

  4. Sherry

    CW Official Summary for 7.23

    SAM AND DEAN STORM SUCROCORP TO TAKE DOWN DICK ROMAN — Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Sam (Jared Padalecki) prepare for battle with Dick Roman (guest star James Patrick Stuart). Dick’s in the final phase of his plan and the Winchesters must team up with Castiel (guest star Misha Collins), Bobby (guest star Jim Beaver), Meg (guest star Rachel Miner) and Kevin (guest star Osric Chau), the prophet, to stop him. However, Dick is one of the smartest enemies they’ve ever faced so it’s a mind game to see who can keep the upper hand. Robert Singer directed the episode written by Sera Gamble (#7.23)

    1. Ginger

      “…the Winchesters must team up with Castiel (guest star Misha Collins), Bobby (guest star Jim Beaver), Meg (guest star Rachel Miner) and Kevin (guest star Osric Chau), the prophet, to stop him.”

      The Winchesters “MUST TEAM UP”…Looks like all the supernatural help is there for our two measly humans…and it sounds like another crowded episode that will pay homage to all the fan favorites (*cough, cough*) as SG takes her leave.

      Wait a minute. Where’s Crowley? I’d rather see Crowley take part in bringing Roman down, than I would stale Meg.

    2. Heather S. Vina

      Thanks, Sherry!

      Wow, that sounds boring. Really really boring. And Gamble is writing it. Gamble, who couldn’t even balance the characters she had in her last episode, and who has a few more added in this one to boot. Oy. At this point, I think this season is just a write off and all we can do is hope that the cliffhanger will at least be interesting enough to give us something to talk about for next season.

  5. Sunny

    I’m dying for the Once Upon A Time finale! DYING. I swear if Regina doesn’t get something I will be jumping through my tv screen and beating her lol.

    As for SPN I’m excited to see the Alpha vampire again and hope he has more than one scene. I think he would have made a good S7 villain, and they could have played with him still having a connection to Dean. But that would have been interesting.

    I’ve only seen Felicia Day in Dollhouse and Buffy and neither time did she make any sort of impression on me. So if liking her a lot is related to enjoying this episode I’ll probably be bored. I’m still wondering what could Frank possibly have on the Winchesters that Dick wouldn’t already know.

    And ugh to Gamble writing the finale. Though at least this time Sam is fine so Dean shouldn’t be only emoting when it comes to him. I just always worry about him and Castiel when she’s directly behind the wheel. Especially since there has been so much talk about a cliffhanger, though something tells me it’s totally Bobby related. I wish the weeks would go fast so this season can just be over. I just wanna skip to the Age of Carver to see how he handles things.

    1. Heather S. Vina

      Sunny, I know, I seriously need Regina to get some kind of punishment or something, in this season finale, because I am so darn tired of her always WINNING! I still think that scene in the promos showing the town coming after her, is going to be a dream or nightmare. But regardless, she needs to pay in some way and she needs to lose, period. Enough is enough!

      1. Sunny

        Me too. I hate how they have changed Emma just to make Regina look better/smarter. I’m like where is the girl who was chasing bail jumpers and cutting down trees with chainsaws? I want that girl back! It’s so frustrating to see Regina do evil in the fairy tale world and then again in the real world, and never get so much as a slap on the wrist. I think they should kill her off in the finale, even if she comes back next season. At least that would be some kinda justice for a little while.

  6. AFriendofAFriend

    I don’t know what to make of all the official episode descriptions anymore. They all seem very “big-picture-pure-focused-on-the-main-plot” written. There’s nothing you can really take from them and in a way I have to admit that I kind of like it, because I’m assuming/hoping that all the episodes (or at least the last 2) will have some twists. And that they are hiding those really interesting infos, not giving them away in a description, because otherwise it would ruin the element of surprise. So yeah, I’m still keeping my fingers crossed for a great finale, for a great Dean arc, etc.. I’m such a dreamer, right?! :)
    Even though I’m wondering why they even mentioned archangels in one of the descriptions then. I think it would have been more thrilling if the audience only gotten to know it while watching. Also, for the ordinary SPN fan, you only would have needed to tell about a prophet and the fandom would have guessed about acrhangels on their own, since we know that archangels watch over the prophets.

    The question stays: What archangels? To me it always seemed that in SPN universe there were 4 archangels. Gabriel, Michael, Raphael and Lucifer. I know it has never been said that Lucifer is an archangel, but somehow I always thought he’s considered one, because of his powers and because only 4 angels ever saw god. I assume those were the 4 who did.

    If there are new archangels all of a sudden? Where do they come from? Are they “born” the same time a new prophet is “born”? That would be the only thing making sense, because if not I’d really like to know where they were while there was a civil war in heaven. Did they pull a Loki!Gabriel?

    And, if there are two? Do archangels fight over who gets to protect which prophet? And why do Dean and Sam have to fight those two off? Because they want to re-start the apocalypse?

    So so so many questions inside my head. I’m dizzy.

    Anyway. You all know that I’d love for Michael!Dean to happen, because I just want to see Jensen play that character. I know it would be freaking brilliant + he’d really deserve a cool storyline like that, because he never had one that big up until now.

    As much as I hope we get a glimpse of Michael!Dean at this point I doubt we will get to see that (even though it would be freaking awesome, I mean just imagine such a cliffhanger that would involve Dean, as one of “two fan faves ending up in a very strange place”).
    I think there will be a new archangel. Which is the reason I guess why the prophet is in the season finale, why Sam and Dean take him with them, because quite frankly the prophet is a powerful weapon, since he has an archangel watching over him.

    For the rest of people involved. I’m not surprised (in fact I would have been surprised if they weren’t) that Cas, Bobby and Meg are in the finale as well. How they will be of help? No idea. But still there is heaven (Castiel), hell (Meg) and purgatory (Dean, because phoenix ash and vampire background) in the same team, from each part they need something as we’ve been told in another description. 3 key items they need to take down the leviathans. Maybe they have to scarifice themselves? I really hope that’s not what they aim for, but with the writers you never know….

    A lot of people have a bad feeling in their stomach knowing that Gamble wrote the finale, because she doesn’t seem to be so keen on a big Dean storyline. But then again, I think this season Dean had an equally as good (or bad depeneding on your pov) storyline as Sam. In fact it was a very Dean heavy (which is why I loved it) season. Maybe she’ll surprise us all and the season finale will be great and she says goodbye to SPN with a great episode. She wrote a lot of my favourite episodes over all the seasons (such as Faith, one of my all time faves) and she also wrote “The Born Again Identity” which def is one of my fave episodes of this season. Interesting enough is that actually almost all of my favourite episodes were either written by Carver or Gamble as I realize now. 0.0 That’s not weird at all…

    So, I’m excited for Carver’s take on SPN. Really hoping we will get at least one more season of SPN. I sure as hell would like it to run at least 10 seasons. :) No matter what happens, I know I’ll be there. Right beside Sam and Dean. Or maybe not right beside, but in the backseat of the Impala. Can’t wait for Baby to make a comeback! :)

    1. castiel'scat

      Yes! Dean has grabbed a prophet before to use the archangel as a threat. Great callback. I for not think new archangels are made for each profit… otherwise they wouldn’t have been the oldest angels. Cas said the names of all the prophets are inscribed in angels heads. So they would know who to watch and guard. Does not make sense for there to be two.
      I also hope for a great Dean arc. Yes faith is amazing; sg cowrite it. I thought born again was a mess…. short changed Dean and cas. But mostly sg is a disappointment because seasons 6-7 have been weak. Although at this point I think 6 had better episodes overall. Many of the mobster episodes were strong.

  7. Cassieo

    Thanks for the round up Paula. Well now we know why TPTB keep the writer of the finale under wraps. I have not seen one board happy about her doing the finale except the Sam board. Her final swan song to the series will be ‘Sam the special snowflake’ again. How horrible! Wonder as her last swap at JA will she have Dean passed out drunk from booze and pills so Sam has to lead the group.

    Bet your bones, Sam will kill Roman, just like he killed Grandpa Shady. Can’t say how totally disappointed I am in TPTB. Why, after all the problems she has caused on the show, would they let her write the finale? I’m just at a loss for words.

  8. Paula R. Stiles

    @Ginger
    Actually, the conclusion of that article is the same as the general conclusions about TV viewing–what is killing ratings is not the gaps between new episodes (That’s always been a problem) but that people have other alternatives now and can watch those shows on their own schedules. That issue has been around for a while, with VCRs, but DVRing has made it so easy that it has seriously affected viewing habits. It amuses me that twenty years ago, people worried we were watching too much TV. Now they’re worried we’re not watching enough. But of course, their main worry is *not* about watching a show live, but that viewers who don’t watch a show live usually don’t watch the commercials. And that’s baaaaaaad.

    I agree about the editing (well…obviously, since I keep complaining about it in my reviews). You might get your wish with Carver. My favourite episode of Being Human’s second season was a ‘bottle’ show that was almost completely filmed inside the roommates’ house. Some of those scenes were quite long and well-edited.

    I also agree about the lesbian angle. Lesbians are just girls who like other girls. They’re not a different species. Sheesh.

    @castiel’scat
    I really like Demon Knight (also agree about Bordello of Blood, which was disappointing). It’s a solid and gruesome “And Then There Were None” kind of plot, with some nice “long view” religious horror thrown in. And I’m almost certain the show ripped off its Leviathans plot from DK’s demon backstory. Also, William Sadler was even better as a hero than as a villain like Luther Sloan (BTW, he was also in DeVour. He has a scene with Jensen Ackles).

    About Day and the security guard, yes, in the clip, but in the promo, it’s implied that Dean’s trying to get her to seduce Dick. I agree that she probably isn’t doing that in the episode itself (since Dean would know it’s pointless), but that’s the way the promo spins it.

    Ghost!Bobby is probably behind all the saves, yeah. The papers come from his library and he talks about the address book in 7.17. The beer never gets mentioned past Dean’s recap of it in “Garth”, but that’s probably because they realised afterward that they couldn’t explain it, what with having Bobby be the most challenged ghost, ever, and their trying to explain where the liquid went.

    I noticed that everyone on the show has been conspicuously silent about the mysteriously-appearing devil’s trap on the ceiling in “Repo Man”, even though Jim Michaels claimed at the time that there was something to it.

    No, I don’t want to see Ghost!Bobby possess Dean, either, but his attempting to do so is the very first thing that leaps to mind when the synopsis says he’s going to learn how to do some ghost mojo thing that goes horribly wrong.

    I’m guessing Carver’s coming on board because the network wants to take the show at least through a tenth season. That’s when the network has to re-up its affiliates’ contracts. Also, they did a similar showrunner shakeup with Smallville late in the day and it worked out fine.

    @shamangrrl
    I liked the clip better than the promo. Dean was funny; Day was all right, but not dominating the proceedings. The producer’s preview with the clip of Day’s character doing a little seizure dance in the elevator was not so amusing. I’m not a huge fan of Day’s shtick and it looks as though that’s what they hired her to do–her shtick. I hope, next season, we’ll get more solid casting along the lines of Tracey as Lee and less of the stuntcasting where faded genre faves are shoehorned into versions of their old roles and storylines that don’t really fit the show. That just gets too Abbott and Costello for me.

    Still hate Dick. Not looking forward to more Ghost!Bobby, though if there’s more conflict between Ghost!Bobby and Dean, I am for that.

    @Sherry
    My first response to that synopsis was: “Since when is Dick smart?” He’s been one of the dumbest and most ineffectual Big Bads in the show. The Leviathans have potential. He has none.

    Curious that these synopses mention nothing of what the set visits show in Dean, especially with the archangel stuff. It makes me wonder if his having a new leather jacket after the archangels episode and his fondling Bobby’s flask are part of a twist the synopses are hiding. Let’s hope, because the synopses themselves sound crowded and mediocre.

    And Ginger, I did notice Crowley’s absence in that synopsis. It might tie in with both the Alpha and Crowley being antagonists in the previous episode, which means they’re probably taken down or subdued in some way in that episode. It’s possible that Meg will end up Queen of Hell for season eight. It amuses me that Dean is such a kingmaker that his supernatural allies end up rulers of entire realms, just through allying with him. It reinforces the theory that Dean is the ultimate God of the SPNverse, or at least acting in loco deo.

    @Heather S. Vina
    It’s too early to tell. While the synopses are exceedingly boring, there are some intriguing hints surrounding Dean. We’ll just have to wait and see.

    It’s very annoying, though, that we seem to have so much focus on guest stars over the leads. That’s no way to promote the show.

    @Sunny
    I think every fan of Once besides the die-hard Regina fans (who could watch her club a thousand baby seals for a new fur coat and still find excuses for her) wants to see her go down, bigtime.

    For SPN, the enthusiasm is greatly muted now it’s been confirmed that Gamble is writing the season finale. Probably why they drew it out so long. Just keep in mind that she’s leaving and that, hopefully, massive missteps like what she did with Bobby (and all the yanking around with Sam’s character the past two seasons) will become things of the past next season.

    @AFriendofAFriend
    That’s a good point and I’ve seen a lot of complaints on other boards that the writers essentially ignored the mytharc for filler all season long and are now trying to rush through the mytharc in the last four episodes.

    We don’t know yet if there are two new archangels. If there are, I suppose it’s still possible that one of them could persuade Dean to say yes. But I still think we’re overthinking it and that “two archangels” is simply code for “Michael and Lucifer”.

    Lucifer is definitely an archangel. Gabriel and Michael both confirmed that Lucifer was their brother and when they were talking about killing Lucifer in 5.19, it was confirmed that he could be slain by an archangel’s blade not an angel sword.

    I agree that it’s possible we could end up with a Deancentric finale, though it sounds very crowded, already. Gamble’s biggest problem has been that she has been very disorganised. But I also have a bad feeling we would end up with All About Bobby. Also, her most acclaimed episodes (like “Faith”) have been co-written with other writers. Her solo work is much weaker.

    *If* Dean says yes to Michael this season, I think there are two possible times–1. at the end of 7.21, to one of the archangels, or 2. at the very end of 7.23, as part of the cliffhanger. I think two strong possibilities are that Dean says yes in the way he said, “I’m sorry” to DreamSam in “What Is and What Should Never Be”, in an abrupt way before anyone can change his mind, or in a way where Dick appears to be triumphant and then AngelDean reveals himself and turns the tables.

    @Cassieo
    With Jared Padalecki unavailable for so much and with his head not in the game, I find it very unlikely that Sam will be doing much Big Damn Heroing at the end of this season.

    Ghost!Bobby being a Big Damn Hero, though, is a distinct and dismaying possibility.

    1. Ginger

      The difference between Crowley and Meg to me is that the show has turned Meg into a Ruby1, with her thrust out hip and monotone snark; whereas, even though they have screwed up Crowley’s character, I still see in him an intelligent friend-when-I-have-to-be-fo- my-own purposes villian.

      I am afraid they will kill off Crowley and leave Meg, not because she is the best character or actor, but because she is a female. If they leave her, they need to write her better and Rachel needs to give us some sub-text or subtle undertones to the character. I’m not seeing that in her, which leaves me fairly bored when she’s on-screen.

  9. elena

    “With Jared Padalecki unavailable for so much and with his head not in the game, I find it very unlikely that Sam will be doing much Big Damn Heroing at the end of this season.

    Ghost!Bobby being a Big Damn Hero, though, is a distinct and dismaying possibility”

    It’s pretty ironic, actually- after so many seasons of having the major storyline focused on Sam, when there’s finally an excuse and opportunity to turn the spotlight onto Dean, we have to worry about Bobby. A secondary character upstaging a lead (both leads, actually)….that’s actually pretty mind boggling, if you ask me.

    Unfortunately, I also have the growing suspicion that Bobby will be the BDH. This entire season was pretty Bobbycentric, none of the other characters had a storyline worth beans, he has the most pressing motivation to go after Dick. Even the descriptions for the upcoming episodes all specifically mention ghost!Bobby. Ugh. If I weren’t already so sick of the character, all this attention on Bobby would have done it. Is the show really THAT creatively depleted?

    I just don’t get it. All signs at midseason pointed to Dean as being the one being pushed over the edge; the loss of Bobby being the final blow to send him on a mission to kill Dick. Dean talked about suicide, guest stars taught him to channel his depression/hate, there were neon signs pointed at Dean’s drinking (and not just to draw attention to Bobby’s flask), he was obsessed with finding Dick and then suddenly, it’s like someone pulled the breaks on that storyline. Dean still looks stressed but to me, it’s no more than I’d expect anyone faced with another impending apocalypse and finding out you’re being haunted. Seeing as how Jim Beaver apparently had expected to just be invited back for the finale, I suspect yet another of the show’s infamous yearly “course corrections.” Funny how Dean never seems to benefit from those.

    But in trying to stay upbeat- I guess there’s still a chance Michael will turn up in the finale. Or maybe Dean will be able to function as Michael’s representative? There has to be a reason for the Michael painting, the introduction of the new prophet, and the mention of archangels. I hope that might also be a plotline that would somehow transition into the new season. It seems like kind of a waste to reintroduce the Heaven stuff just for three episodes.

  10. Crowley_Gal

    Unfortunately I also think that Bobby is going to end up being the big hero. He’s had what, 5 separate articles talking about Ghost Bobby. I don’t believe the writers will ever have the nerve to turn ghost Bobby truly rogue.

    With Jim Beavers words that he’s not sure if he’s in season 8 (if there is one) and the tease about two fan favs ending up some place unexpected makes me wonder if Ghost Bobby ends up possessing Cas for his powers and then both ending up in purgatory.

    I wish I had faith that the writers talking about nothing but Ghost Bobby meant they were hiding something but I find usually with this show if they don’t talk about something its because there is nothing to say.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Ginger
      How you feel about Meg is how I feel about Crowley. It really annoyed me when he had Dean by the shorthairs last season and was twitting around with Castiel. Crowley does not work as someone in power. It goes to his head and then he turns into an asshat. Not a fun one, either. Plus, his remodel of Hell was boring. Sure, he was fun in this season’s premiere and the wedding episode, but I cringe every time he’s mentioned in an upcoming spoiler because I’m so sure they’ll revert to pompous asshat with him.

      Personally, I like Meg and Rachel Miner, so I’m not fussed by her return. But even if you hate her, she’s really not in enough of the show for it to be a problem.

      As for the writers keeping her because she’s female, eh, not seeing that as a problem after Annie and Emma and Amy. If they want Meg dead, they’ll just kill her off.

      @elena
      I guess the best I can say is that it’s unlikely that everything, or even all the major stuff, is out there as spoilers. As for Ghost!Bobby becoming a BDH…that’s assuming he doesn’t become a villain. This interview from yesterday has Jim Beaver expressing reservations about Bobby going dark:

      http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2012/04/supernaturals-jim-beaver-will-bobby-become-an-angry-spirit.html

      He can’t really be a BDH if he goes dark.

      @Crowley_Gal
      Jim Beaver really can’t say very much at this point. They only just wrapped up filming for season seven a week ago. On top of the fact that they don’t even have a confirmed, public announcement from the network yet (There’s always an outside chance it could be canceled), they’re about to be switching showrunners. So, Beaver is only being totally honest when he says he doesn’t know what will happen for Bobby in season eight. Because he really doesn’t.

      If it helps, I don’t see how Ghost!Bobby is going to be very effective against demons, angels and a vampire Alpha, or even the Leviathans. Which could get in the way of his becoming a BDH even more effectively than his awful, terrible, no-good ghost rage.

  11. Ginger

    Unfortunately, I agree with elena and Crowley_Girl that it’s going to be all about GhostBobby. To me, that explains why they released the fact that Misha Collins was returning just a few days after Death’s Door aired. It took the attention immediately away from Bobby and the main story of Bobby the BDH. There’s no doubt in my mind that one of the ‘fan favorites’ left hanging will be Bobby, and I think the other one will be Cas, not Dean or Sam.

    It is curious that the synopsis doesn’t mention the archangels when the pictures are out on the Internet, so I guess that is a spark of hope for something.

    ” less of the stuntcasting where faded genre faves are shoehorned into versions of their old roles and storylines that don’t really fit the show.”

    Yes, less of the stuntcasting and less of the episodes time given to those actors and their stories. There’s no investment in their stories. There are other ways to give the 2Js time off if that is the goal, although I think their time on screen this year in most all of the episodes has been minimal. It’s very noticeable when you’re FF’ing through the episodes; and, in many of the episodes, I don’t feel like I’m getting my time’s worth of Sam and Dean.

    I do agree, Paula, that I hope Carver does something with Sam’s character.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      The Bobby storyline is such a careening semi that it’s just not easy to predict whether it will end up in a ditch or on the median, on top of the spring flowers. With the number of fans complaining about it, already, though, I expect it to be resolved permanently, one way or the other, by the end of the season eight premiere, cliffhanger or not.

      Not only am I not invested in the guest stars’ stories, I am also honestly confused at the number of times the show seems to expect me to cheer them on *against* the brothers. It’s one thing to have more characters. It’s another to have those characters against the brothers and insulting them all the time. It’s confusing an offputting. Why would I want to see that? Is this just a case of new(er) writers who want to make the show about their own shiny, new characters instead of the show’s leads?

      Personally, I’d rather Carver focus on Dean, first, seeing as how Dean’s the one who keeps getting shortchanged. But if he could figure out how to make Sam tolerable without turning him into wallpaper, that would be nice, too.

  12. Cassieo

    “With Jared Padalecki unavailable for so much and with his head not in the game, I find it very unlikely that Sam will be doing much Big Damn Heroing at the end of this season.

    Ghost!Bobby being a Big Damn Hero, though, is a distinct and dismaying possibility”

    Do NOT underestimate Gamble! As you have said, her solo episodes are very weak and she has never shown to me that she has the ability for good character development. That’s why she always returns to her favorite, Sam. Him she thinks she understands. And at this point I will take ANY BDH over Sam!

    There is a new interview with Jim Beaver out when he says Bobby’s character is left open to return in s8. Which is just code for, I’m not ganked so will be back but can’t tell you all that yet. So nope, he is not restored, nope, the flask is not burned and yes, he is part of the cliffhanger. Ditto for Cass.

    Besides Gamble has so many silly plots running through her episodes, Bobby’s might not have anything to do with Roman. It might just be his fight against turning evil and his ‘solution’ to it and we don’t find out if it worked or didn’t work till next season when Carver is on board. That might be what Carver asked for. He likes doing dark characters and Jim Beaver is a tremendous actor. It would be fun to see Bobby dark before Dean saves him. And yes, it’s not been done before and while I wouldn’t trust Gamble to do it creatively, I do think Carver can. Besides, if you have read any of Beavers tweets when he isn’t on his guard protecting the finale, it’s apparent he already knows he’s back.

    Cass’s plot has to be redemption so I can see him being the BDH this time. Kevin is a supporting character that probably gets killed at the end. So count on him being hyped up to increase sympathy for him prior to the ganking. That’s Gamble trademark.

    As for supporting characters being the cliffhanger is not uncommon in series, especially when your leads have been in all kinds of peril, even died and always come back. It isn’t going to ‘worry’ fans as much as a supporting characters that everyone likes being in danger. Him/her can be killed permanently. So I can see them doing Cass last year and Bobby this year and who knows whom next year. And yes, Bobby has a lot of fans as does Cass which makes him also fair game.

    I do NOT want Dean possessed by anyone. Dean doesn’t need any supernatural to kill a monster. His intelligence and superior hunting skills is all he needs and if Gamble would acknowledge that Ghost!Bobby, Cass, Meg, and Kevin would not be needed. Sam could even be sidelined and not much would be lost this season. But that isn’t happening this year either.

    I really don’t think any cage involvement will be seen this season. That died in s5 and is long forgotten. You have a religious painting seen which can be in any religious historical building, library, or museum where ancient texts are stored. You still have an angel as a guest star and a villain with biblical connections so searching biblical records for information is not a reach. Trying to open the cage, get Michael!Adam out without freeing Lucifer is. I’m thinking this research is how they find out about the 3 items they need.

    The series is not relaying the levies as a single monster but a species and so a solution would have to be global in nature. I would really like it if the three (or four if Dean’s blood is needed) items turned out to be a black magic potion that Dean has to work because of his aptitude for the dark arts. Also MAYBE that would work in with his Phoenix blood poison. BUT that also gives to much credit to Gamble as she dislikes Dean/Jensen and would NEVER make him the BDH, especially while sidelining the special snowflake.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      I think these are an awful lot of assumptions based on what we have so far. Gamble may be writing the season finale, but she’s not writing the other three episodes.

      As for Sam or Bobby being the BDHs, Padalecki’s involvement is limited, period. That also strongly limits the likelihood of his being a BDH at the end of the season. And Beaver has lied before. As I already said, he’s not going to give away the punchline. Plus, we already know the season ends in a cliffhanger, so a lot of characters may make it to season eight and expire shortly thereafter.

      As for the painting, that’s not just any old angel painting. It’s one they’ve used before in a very specific context about a specific archangel. And it’s been backed up by the fact that the previous episode has archangels in it. Like it or not, there will be angels and archangels in the last few episodes.

      I find it curious no one is mentioning Castiel. With his need for redemption, he’s almost bound to be a BDH. And it’s not as though only one character can be a BDH.

      1. Cassieo

        It’s true Gamble is only writing the last episode, but as showrunner she told the writers of the previous episodes exactly what she wants them to convay with regards to the major arc. They can weave their own story around that however they want.

        And I have alwasy thought Cass would be the BDH this time. It’s just I can’t think of a way that can happen without him dying. That would not be good for fans.

  13. Crowley_Gal

    I have to agree with Cassieo. Jared doesn’t need a lot of screen time to be the BDH. They could easily say that Sam is the key to tying the 3 things together, for example. He’s been to heaven and to hell just like Dean. Both boys don’t have a clear connection to purgatory so its entirely possible that they could make something up as to why Sam is the one even if its an explanation that makes no sense. They’ve done it before.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Once more, with feeling: There is no proof that Sam (not Jared Padalecki) will be the only BDH. He wasn’t the BDH last season and there is no way that Padalecki can field the kind of dream storyline for this season that Sam had last season. Also, in case you forgot, the last episode of last season that Gamble wrote was Deancentric. The last episode of the season was written by Eric Kripke.

      As for Gamble dictating everything the writers should write, have you ever written a script? It’s hard. It takes a while. If Gamble really could do all that, on top of actually taking care of the business of running the show, she probably wouldn’t be stepping down after the end of the season and the season mytharc wouldn’t be half as chaotic as it is.

      If you’re both that convinced that the end of the season is going to suck, then just don’t watch it. Otherwise, please stop pronouncing your worst, unconfirmed fears as gospel truth when there are no spoilers to back up any of it.

  14. Ginger

    There is no arguing that Dean should be the focus, not only because he has been shortchanged, but because Dean is the most interesting character and Jensen is the best actor on the show.

  15. castiel'scat

    Thanks! Devour is going on my Netflix queue. Demon Knight backstory connection… blood is the key… well since JC is out of the mix… whose blood? That is the interesting question.
    I don’t see Sam supplanting Dean in the endgame this time. Dean’s connections to heaven and hell are more meaningful. Sure Sam drank demon blood and was caged with Lucifer. Dean was tortured in hell and was a demon in training. Dean was raised from perdition by an angel (darn show for forgetting the mark in slice girls)! That’s a little more than visiting heaven. Dean is also the vessel for Michael! The servant of heaven! The righteous man! He’s been a monster! He’s fathered a monster! He was a servant of Eve for a short while. He was death! He drank the Phoenix ash. He killed a bloody seraphim! Good lord. If anyone’s blood is key it should be dean’s.

    And yes it is not just any angel painting, it is the iconic Michael painting from the green room. So I think there will be Michael. Hopefully DeanMichael. Michaeladam was so lame.

    My guess, cas wakes up and tells them about the prophet. And finally they are on track to defeat the Leviathan, dragon tattoos notwithstanding. The prophet leads them to the keys. They get the keys with difficulty. The keys are used in the final confrontation. Sam and Dean are mentioned leading the action in all episodes. This is not like s6 when we find that cas was running the show behind the scenes. Of course we expect cas to do something big, probably a sacrifice of sorts. It will be to save someone and not to kill dick. Bobby will try to do something big but he won’t save the day. Maybe he will animate a corpse to be corporeal.
    Why is Meg there? Why did she readily call Dean when cas awakens. This is interesting. I also like Meg. She is different for a demon. Sam and Dean will have pivotal roles. I have no problem with teamwork since the Leviathan are a large threat, many bodies, and difficult to kill.

  16. Sunny

    I have to admit it does kinda amuse me how the excitement at hearing Carver had taken over has been kinda doused with cold water at the fact that Gamble is writing the finale. I think it really shows how most people have felt about her tenure as show-runner. While I am worried about what she’ll do to poor Castiel, I’m also like you mentioned Paula, just sort of going to overlook it and await season eight. I do believe she could pull out anything in the finale and that we’d have to wait the whole summer to know what’s up (which would be annoying) but the good news is, is that after this she’s gone. Carver can come in and fix everything in the S8 premier.

    Is there any word on if Gamble is sticking around as a writer, or if she’s just gone with the show altogether?

  17. Crowley_Gal

    Suzanne Gomez was tweeting about next weeks episode

    Looks like Suzanne Gomez is twitting about 7.21.

    Dean with a hammer is #sexytime #SPN

    Misha’s faces are killing me… #SPN

    Dean doesn’t really have a poker face either (see my earlier tweet). #SPN

    And I can hear all of you going “awww…” in this scene. #SPN

    Dean and Castiel RT @Starshelle: @Chico6 I’m excited! Can you tell us who is involved in that scene? :)

    @Chico6 Is Sam even in this episode? You haven’t mentioned him at all.
    @Lin_Da74 Yes, he has great stuff but I’m trying to find something that isn’t a spoiler for him. You guys won’t like that either.

    @chico6 should we find the lack of any Sam teases telling?
    @onemoremistake No, he’s just with Kevin the prophet a lot and I don’t want to spoil that storyline.

    No, lots of good brother stuff but trying not to spoilRT @EvaMcBain2009: @Chico6 Any good Sam and Dean moments or is it mostly Dean and Cas.

    I think these Winchesters boys need a hug. Seriously. #SPN

    Oh Sammy. Such a sweet sweet boy…Always worried about other people…#SPN

    Tissues, please… #SPN

    It sounds like all the prophet stuff revolves around Sam.

    1. Cassieo

      Let’s hope not, but I can say that @chico6 is as big a Samfan as Zap2it’s reporter is. They travel to Vancouver together a lot.

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        @Ginger
        Well, he’s certainly a large and untapped well in terms of mytharc. I really don’t get why they haven’t had a sustained crack at it sooner.

        @castiel’scat
        I have to warn you that, in script terms, DeVour is a huge mess. Some great ideas. Some good acting. And personally, I liked the ending. But it belonged to a much-less-screwed-up film.

        Yes, Dean is the one with links to all four realms. Also, there was Jake Abel’s tweet about going up to Vancouver. He’s definitely up there for The Host, but he didn’t start tweeting about that project until a couple of days ago. I know people here aren’t really dying to see MichaelAdam again, but if Adam did come back, it would be essentially confirmation that Michael was coming back, too. And Adam would be almost a necessity to bringing back Michael. They could write around Adam offscreen, but it would require some expositional gymnastics.

        I could see Bobby trying to animate a corpse. Of course, we haven’t seen ghosts try it in the past, so it could be there’s a reason why we don’t and Bobby will find it out the hard way.

        @Sunny
        Well, anything she does to Castiel is probably fixable, since he’s an angel. I think the damage is done with Bobby, though.

        Whether or not she comes back depends on whether or not she’s really leaving to develop other projects and how people are feeling about her behind the scenes. Since we don’t know what’s going on, there, it’s really hard to say.

        @Crowley_Gal
        Well, it sounds like the second scene she’s talking about involves Sam and Kevin. But then, I seem to recall a lot of nerd rage beforehand about how “Frontierland” was going to be All About Sam because Sam got to have an expositional scene with Samuel Colt. Keep in mind that Dean is busy reuniting with Castiel. Which would you rather have–Dean and Castiel or Dean having some exposition with Kevin the Token Asian Prophet?

        @Cassieo
        Kinda funny, then, that she had to be prodded even to bother talking about Sam.

  18. Ginger

    Not the place, I know, but I can’t wait for your recap of tonight’s episode, Paula. I honestly can’t say enough BAD about it. There wasn’t one thing in it I liked.

      1. Ginger

        Well, there is one good thing I can say about the episode: Jensen Ackles is absolutely gorgeous and the close-ups of him were yummy.

        I didn’t know Felicia Day, I don’t know why she got an episode of SPN devoted to her this close to the finale, and I hope to never see her again on my TV screen.

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          Felicia Day is the geek boys’ current consolation prize for not getting the Cool Hot Girl. She’s in several things, but I mainly remember her from Eureka. She’s not a bad actress, but I’m not particularly fond of her ubergeek shtick. It plays to the sad truth that computers are still enough of a sausage fest that the men in that field are not very nice to or about women. At all.

  19. Cassieo

    Chico6 doesn’t need any prodding to talk about Sam. Sam is her favorite. Read her articles and follow her tweets.

    As for the episode, it was a let down for me just because it had too much Sam in it. I’m glad Charlie is okay and good thing Bobby was there. Glad he didn’t listen to Sam! And what happened to Dean as the leader? Why is Sam back in charge? I don’t like it when Sam make decisions. That’s when Dean gets tossed to the side.

    Dean also didn’t seem very angry either or obsessed but he did seem worried about Bobby. Looked like Dean was going to Roman to help Bobby and Sam called him off. What does Sam know about about what Dean is doing.

    Also didn’t like Sam telling Dean, “We have to talk.” Sam now wants to kill Bobby and Dean doesn’t. Just last week he was all on Bobby’s side. And Dean wasn’t. Guess Dean’s anti-Bobby doesn’t fit the storyline this week. Don’t need to make Dean look bad this week…just unimportant. At least Dean is now back to Dean at least where Bobby’s concerned.

    Also see Gamble has continued Dean’s drinking even though it has no point to the story. So glad this is Gamble last season with SPN.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Cassieo
      And yet, she had to be prodded.

      I get that you hate Sam and are not fond of Jared Padalecki, but that doesn’t mean the latter part of the season will be Samheavy. Did tonight’s episode look Samheavy to you?

      As for Dean’s drinking, hey, maybe that storyline has been in literally every episode because it’s going somewhere.

      1. Cassieo

        Actually it seemed very Samheavy, That’s why I didn’t like it. You think it was Dean-centric? I didn’t see Dean making a single decision. And if anyone asked a question Sam replied first. I don’t see how that isn’t Samheavy.

        And yes, I don’t like this Sam, at all. I used to but not the way he is now. I’m hoping Carver fixes Sam so I can like him again. And I have nothing against JP. My objection to him was the trailer incident which you said wasn’t accurate. I also . Is that why you think I don’t like him?

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          “Samheavy”?! He was barely freakin’ in it!

          Yes, the episode was All About the Idiot Guest Character Who Should Have Died, but Dean was actually running the sting. Sam wasn’t running anything. So Sam got a few lines in. Big whoop. You can’t expect the show to turn Dean into a Gary Stu and expect it to be good, so yes, Sam needs to get some screentime in each episode, too.

          As for my conclusion that you don’t like Sam, it could be that your posts always have something negative about Sam, even when the discussion isn’t about Sam.

  20. castiel'scat

    Looking forward to the review and comments. I actually liked the episode. It skipped along. The flash forward with the suitcase was clumsy. Day was fine. I thought it was deancentric. He was the lead. He was thinking on his feet. If he is hesitant to toast Bobby immediately it is because he is in general mode and starting to plan the big assault. Angry ghost Bobby focused on dick is an asset, albeit a dangerous one. Without Bobby’s fit of rage the outcome would not have gone their way. Dean seemed very cold, calm and in control. Very big picture oriented. Sam was a mess. Dick was creepy. It was obvious Bobby was going to go postal. He was seething at the end of last week and he still is seething… all episode. He also threw teamwork out the window pretty quickly. Loose cannon.

    I often find weak or bad films likable in some aspect. Will let you know how I like devour. Might be a while. We have a ridiculously long Netflix queue.

    It did not seem like frank had much info, nothing we didn’t already know. Bobby did but we had already guessed that the leviathan had culinary aspirations. Why bother with hacking when you can eat frank and know everything?

    Yes the archaeological sites are making sense. At first I thought it was a key but based on the promo it looks like the clay brick contains a cuneiform tablet. Must be an account of the first Leviathan hunt.
    So I am getting interested. Finally.

  21. Lani

    @castiel’scat:” He was the lead. He was thinking on his feet. If he is hesitant to toast Bobby immediately it is because he is in general mode and starting to plan the big assault. Angry ghost Bobby focused on dick is an asset, albeit a dangerous one. Without Bobby’s fit of rage the outcome would not have gone their way. Dean seemed very cold, calm and in control. Very big picture oriented”

    I really love this perspective of Dean in this episode! It really fits with how Dean was acting this episode for the most part. Dean was definitely the one calling the shots in this episode and even better, I pretty sure the suitcase bomb was his idea. :D Huzzah for SmartDean! Also love your list, castiel’scat, of the supernatural connections and feats Dean has under his belt. Wow, that list is LONG! And they’re all untapped and have been dropped. It just boggles the mind. Come on writers! There is so much material there and hey, it will even open up fresh story possibilities and oh, character growth for Sam. *sighs*

    Overall, I think the episode was better than the promo suggested and it finally kicked the mytharc into gear. Day late dollar short but it finally friggen happened so I’ll take what I can get. It was nice to see the clues, however weak they were, come together to form a grand scheme ala D. Roman’s style. Though I certainly want to know why Bobby wasn’t trying to tell the brothers as soon as he was conscious of being a ghost and capable of doing things that last week he couldn’t do (whatever). That’s a major head desk moment.

    Felicia Day’s character was likable to me but it still grated that so much of the episode was devoted to her. She was certainly written better then a lot the female guest stars this season have been imo like Annie last week. Stupid, yes definitely, but not wholly unlikable for me. She had a brain part of the time.

    And was I the only one getting a little whiplash re: Sam’s character this episode? Sure it was great to see him actually interacting and not being a jerk, but seriously I don’t by the emo act or anything anymore. I guess i can kinda see some carryover via the last scene of the episode last week, but that’s marginal at best.

    Right, I’ll save the rest for your review, Paula. Looking forward to it!

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @castiel’scat
      Chronologically speaking, the archaeological angle is ludicrous since it’s been said throughout the season that the Leviathans have always been in Purgatory since before humans existed or even life in general. Which is a couple of billion years. But maybe they’re claiming one or two got out, here or there, and it’s a record of that.

      @Lani
      I think the bomb was a callback to Dean’s EVP wipe that he did on the Ghostfacers (Come to think of it, if the brothers could have got into Dick’s office, they could have wiped the whole works and problem solved). If this were Mission Impossible, Dean would be Barney, so I think we were meant to believe that Dean created the bomb.

      The time-jumping was a cheap way to generate suspense, though.

  22. AFriendofAFriend

    I have to say that the latest promo for the last 3 episodea got me really excited. I actually think there could be a lot of awesome stuff happening. Sure, maybe it’s going to be a bit crowded since lots of things seem to be happening over those 3 episode, but for some reason I really have a good feeling about the finale now. I can’t even say why I feel that way now… It just happens to be that way. I think Bobby and Castiel and Meg as well will be of help to battle the leviathans, but I don’t think one of those will take them out alone. I’m rooting for Dean for a lot of reason, some of them I pointed out in earlier discussions. I always roor for Dean. Always have. Always will! But especially this season :)
    And for some weir reason, I’m having a good feeling about Dean being the key to defeat the Levis. Still. It’s just my weird feeling, which I don’t where it’s coming from…

    As for Dean’s drinking. I think Paula might be right. We should wait and see, there has to be a reason that it has been in almost every episode of this season (And even if it’s just to show that at the end of the season Dean will have his complete breakdown, at least it would be a completetd storyline, no matter how good or bad it is or what it says about Dean’s mental health and his character). Sure the drinking was there to underline Dean’s state of mind, his grief for Bobby, his grief for Cas, but also Sam. But honestly Dean has been drinking a lot more this season even while Cas and Bobby still were around. And he still is, both are back now, though non of them is in any nocondition that would make poor Dean (and Sam) feel any better. So, I agree, part of his drinking is def coping mechanism, but I think it’s way more than that by now. I don’t know if you can call/consider him an alcoholic (a functioning probably) by now… It doesn’t seem like he has any problems if he doesn’t drink, like shaking and all that stuff. Well, but maybe that is that even if we don’t see him drink on screen, he does and that’s why that’s not happening. But that would mean he would have to be in a haze all the time. He doesn’t seem really drunk to me at all to be honest. Plus: he’s driving most of the time (which by the way is troubling all on its own if Dean really is on a constant alcohol high and what does that say about Sam who lets him drive by the way). But for what I can make out, he just drinks, but there are no consequences. Which is the point why I don’t know where this is meant to lead. If struggling with the drinking (and I don’t mean it as a form of coping mechanism or escapism) from his side would have been shown I guess it would be easier to pin point what it has to do with the storyline. And so I hope that the drinking is part of some plot and storyline and not just to show Dean’s taste for selfdestruction.

    Just a general question, is it really just the booze or is Dean also popping pills? I mean we never saw him do that other times than right after his leg injury. On some boards it sure as hell sounds as if Dean is some pill popping speed junkie (guess they don’t like Dean…). Did I miss that somehow? Because I don’t remember…

    I know it’s not grounded anywhere and there absolutely no hints to it in the story, but I asked myself a few times this season if maybe Dean’s drinking really isn’t there to showcase his grief, but more so to showcase his desire to escape his own head and his thoughts (I mean he’s basically drinking himself to sleep on a daily basis, at least that’s how it sounds judging from what Hallucifer says in TBAI). That he’s drinking to block them out, the voice in his head. And then I was thinking – and yes this is just pure crazy idea spinning without any base from the story told this season – maybe Dean is hearing voices, just like Sam did when he was nuts with Hallucifer. Maybe all of Dean’s experiences of hell and heaven and everything finally came crashing down on him (because at least I think Dean never worked through his issues from back when he was in hell and what he did) and maybe Dean isn’t drinking because he’s grieving or it’s his coping mechanism, but it really is to shut up that voice he hears inside his head (maybe Michael who’s voing him or whatever). That if he didn’t drink he wouldn’t be able to “function” and go off the rails, which would be kind of ironic to think about. Drinking to staying “sane” or more “focused” then when sober and the voices in your head crashing down on you and you’re distracted.

    Okay, I’m pretty sure I failed in trying to explain my idea *sigh*, but anyway. Looking forward for your recap and review Paula! :)

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Dean has offered Sam pills before and Sam has commented on Dean’s usage in other episodes. So, yeah, it’s established that Dean is popping pills. Sam also commented in “Garth” that Dean drinks so much that Sam wasn’t sure Dean could get “high” off booze, anymore. That’s one of the signs of functional alcoholism. An alcoholic can drink a *lot* more than your average person, even past normally lethal levels, and still come out of it with just a nasty hangover. Lower levels that would get an average person drunk might not even affect the alcoholic.

      The problem, for an alcoholic, is that it does affect your body, even if you don’t consciously feel it. It literally pickles your liver, damages your heart and affects your ability to heal, among many other things. It also increases your tendency to get some types of cancer. Also, if you stop drinking for even a day or so, you go into serious withdrawal. The DTs are symptoms of withdrawal, not of overdosing, as many people incorrectly think.

      As for why Dean started drinking and whether he might be hallucinating…they didn’t go into detail about Dean’s reasons, but he started drinking quite heavily in “Yellow Fever” and continued after he got his memories of Hell back near the end of that episode. So, a lot of it was PTSD. However, he also has talked about drinking himself to sleep and that he never sleeps more than four hours or so every other night. *That* started when the angels began regularly invading his dreams, so you can also see both the insomnia and the drinking as defense mechanisms against the angels’ tromping through his head. He essentially had no privacy in seasons four and five, even inside his own dreams.

      Whether or not Dean has hallucinations/is psychotic is more ambiguous and, so, more controversial. I’ve always leaned toward “yes” on that score. There have definitely been cases when he has been psychotic and in some of those cases, it was hinted that this was a regular thing for him. Even as far back as “Dream a Little Dream of Me”, Dream Dean talked about John’s voice being inside Dean’s head, malignantly cutting him down. There was much argument about whether this meant an actual aural hallucination or negative self-talk. But that doesn’t take into account the theory that aural hallucinations like voices *are* negative self-talk so unbearable that it’s projected outward as an actual voice. So, it may well be more of a continuum than a black-and-white duality of voice/self-talk.

      Dean also hallucinated in “Yellow Fever” (as a result of the ghost sickness), had flashbacks to Hell, and began hallucinating a complete person (the shrink) in “Sam, Interrupted” immediately after the brothers entered the hospital, long before Sam had any hallucinations. The Wraith also told Sam that she didn’t “make the crazy” (i.e. create mental disorders out of whole cloth). She only ramped up whatever illness was already there.

      In this season, there were two significant things–Dean knew exactly how to help Sam in dealing with hallucinations in “Hello Cruel World” and Dean talked with inside knowledge about the process of being committed to a mental hospital for an enforced stay in “Repo Man”. Speaking of which, Ben Edlund is writing/directing 7.21, so we may well get some payoff on Dean’s drinking (and the RM story) then. Since that storyline was not the way Sam got himself committed – and we don’t know much about Dean’s “year off”, aside from the way Lisa and Ben treated him as mentally unstable – I’m still going with the theory that Dean was talking about his own hospital stay to Jeffrey. That may even explain Dean’s anger toward Jeffrey later on. He had opened up about something very personal and Jeffrey was playing him all along. Extended stays in a psych hospital usually range from six weeks to three months or so. Permanent committal is pretty rare and difficult to accomplish. You usually have to kill someone. So, a “nice, long stay in an institution of their choice” could easily fit into that missing year and still allow for Dean having a job on construction.

      1. AFriendofAFriend

        Thank you Paula! I really must have forgotten about some of those hints in past episodes and seasons (there was one scene last season that started the pills thing, right? it was in the mannequin, right?) anyway. now that you walked me through every single one of them, I remember though, so thanks for that. :)

        Also, thanks for reminding me of all the times Dean had struggles with his preception of reality. Some I remember very clear, some I completely forgot about. I totally back your opinion and observations there. I think all of those things is why I love Dean as a character so much, he’s got layers and a lot of them.

        I also find your idea that Dean was referring to himself in Repo Man while talking to Jeffrey very interesting. I thought about that possibility before as well, but I didn’t really know if that was just me over-analyzing and reading into it, because I would find it interesting to explore or if it actually had some validation within SPN. Your theory actually makes me really want to know more about what else Dean experienced during that year he was with Lisa and Ben.

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          @AFriendofAFriend
          You’re welcome!

          Yeah, I’m pretty sure it was the Mannequin one. That’s also when Dean refers to shoving things down in “spurts of alcoholism”. Plus, there’s a bit earlier on this season where Sam tries, pretty unsubtly, to get Dean to go to AA by way of interviewing a victim’s sponsor (I think that was “Defending Your Life”). Dean flat-out refuses.

          The “Repo Man” one is controversial because it’s mainly subtext. Dean claims, “It’s happened to friends of mine,” but we don’t know any Hunter who’s ended up in a mental hospital like that. The two we know, Martin and Sam, had different ways of being committed. And Dean’s the resident alcoholic, so the drunk tank sounds like his way of getting committed. Plus, he begins that part of the conversation with a rueful “never tell…never…” that indicates he has first-hand experience with the subject.

          But who knows if they’ll ever go there.

          Speaking of Dean, there’s an odd bit in this week’s promo where we see the angels in front of a big semi and Dean seems to be lying on the ground while the an angel kneels next to him. The really odd thing is that Dean doesn’t look as if he’s fallen. He looks as if he’s just lain down, face up, on the ground, a lot like the way Samifer is lying after he first takes over Sam in “Swan Song” (Yes, I’m incorrigible). It’s possible Sam is lying widdershins to Dean, but it’s very hard to see.

          1. elena

            @Paula- I was also curious why Dean was on the ground like that. I thought, “FinallY! Maybe something’s going on with Dean!” But in looking at these screencaps, it might just be that demon Meg kills. The jacket looks kind of the same. Hope I’m wrong.

            http://hituiwen.livejournal.com/517124.html

          2. Ginger

            It does look like Sam is there with Dean. Right before that one shot is a shot of Meg walking towards that same semi. The semi seems to be moving, and Sam, Dean and the archangels are nowhere around.

  23. castiel'scat

    Yes paula. The archaeological timeline makes little sense if Leviathan were locked up before the dawn of man. That said aren’t Leviathan referenced in the Bible. I just want to be excited.

    I thought Charlie was quirky not dumb.

    YES! The first thing ghostbobby should have done is told them the full Intel on dick. Also evidence ghostbobby is not Bobby.

    In the promo I reckon the suits were angels. Missed Dean on the ground.

    I have wondered before if someone was speaking to Dean as well, a voice in his head; hence one of the reasons ghostbobby disappoints. Paula makes good case for this preceding the cage. Poor Dean.

    I thought Sam was useless in this episode. He looks mire flipped out than earlier this season.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @elena
      Hmm, yeah, I think you’re right that it’s one of the demons that attack Meg in the previous scene. That was so quick that I couldn’t see it in the LQ version of the promo I was watching. And the stills I had seen didn’t catch it, but the guy on the ground has the same body type as the demon Meg stabs. Why does Meg have the Spork, anyway? Dean’s become downright territorial about that thing, so she must have either stolen it or be engaged with the brothers in setting a trap for the angels.

      I’m inclined to agree with those who are saying that Dean in the “Sorry” game scene (“I’m sorry, Dean.” Ha!) is really LuciDean or DeanMichael. They wouldn’t have to bring back Pellegrino and it makes more sense that Castiel would hallucinate the archangels as Dean than as Nick. Castiel feels a huge amount of guilt over betraying Dean.

      If that’s so, I wonder if the relative lack of Jensen Ackles in the previous two episodes is because he’s featured heavily in the last three, even doing double duty as more than one character. I could see that. I just wish they’d written those episodes better.

      Also, that’s Meg being tossed into a wall by what looks like one of the MIB angels.

      @Ginger
      It’s possible that Sam and Dean show up after Meg kills the demons and the angels show up.

      @castiel’scat
      They are, but as primordial beings. It’s possible the show is trying to go back to the old Lovecraftian “things let through from the other side” plot. I so wish Gamble would stop mangling Mythos. If you can’t get it right, don’t do it.

      It’s possible that the tablet actually releases some angels or archangels that had been previously trapped and unknown. DS9 did a similar thing with a prophet and a pagh wraith who were trapped together in an ancient tablet found in a buried city (DS9 liked to do that kind of archaeological stuff. It was fun).

      I thought Charlie was a walking cliche, but more on that in my review.

      I think Ghost!Bobby is already experiencing Ghost Alzheimer’s. That may explain their rationale for why he never brought this stuff before, even with Annie. Or I could just be trying to No Prize this. Either way, that infodump was mighty awkward.

      Whether the show goes with Dean having been hallucinating all along or not, it has hinted for years that Dean is “crazy”. Sam talks in “Sam, Interrupted” about Dean being “half-crazy” even before he went to Hell. While Sam’s hellpain came pretty much out of nowhere in terms of story, Dean has always walked a razor’s edge between sanity and insanity, even if they’ve coded it differently over the years (In early years, for example, he kept being mistaken for a psychopathic serial killer). It’s a large part of why he is a true denizen of the supernatural world and ill at ease in Middle America.

      I’m not going to rag on Sam too much for the rest of this season. Sam’s been a lot less annoying since he shed his hellpain and Jared Padalecki just can’t be expected to bring an Emmy home when he was seriously distracted by baby concerns. The guy had his life priorities straight and that’s a good thing.

      1. Ginger

        After looking at those screencaps elena posted, I agree that the two men on the ground look like demons Meg killed.

        I laughed when you called JA, Mr. Phenetole, in a previous post. One thing I noticed in this episode and the one with Krissy, is that when JA appears to genuinely like who he is playing off of, he gives a very relaxed performance. He did that in his scenes with Felicia Day. That’s with females, of course. When he’s acting off a strong male guest star, like Kurt Fuller, Robert Wisdom, and even D. J. Qualls for the role he’s playing, JA steps right up to it. (Am I making sense?)

        Anyway, I wished they would give him a strong story so we could see him stretch a little bit.

  24. castiel'scat

    I was very disappointed when they did not go lovecraftian with the big bad… although now I see how poorly they would have executed it. So yeah for limp dick!

    I wonder if I like Charlie and Garth because at least they are entertaining and frankly I have not been wowed this season. That said I also like horror comedy which is not to everyone’s taste. I agree it is great to see ja play against people he likes. It is one of the reasons I love cas.

    You have amazing recall paula. Ds9 is a distant blur for me. Whatever the possibilities I am excited. Getting my husband to watch the show finally has been bittersweet since he jabbers nonstop. I completely missed the line: the evil ones require a special sword. I read it in a review or two and there is spec that a sword will figure in and perhaps the tablet refers to this.

    Dean is so layered with his supernatural connections and mental attributes… aside from the psycho killer vibe, it fascinates me how easily he slipped into prison life and movie set life… and excelled.

    I was unable to see the promo on the site I tried. Are you saying deanmichael is cas’ hallucination? Green room photos suggests another wooing.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Ginger
      I think Ackles is like any other actor in that, if he’s having a good time, he’s going to look more relaxed. Even the greatest actors can demonstrate tension or relaxation in a role if you know there are signs to look for. But yes, he does step up to a challenge, too. Maybe the reason why he doesn’t bring the intensity every time is that it would be boring and because it would overshadow the actor who’s supposed to be the focus of that particular scene. That’s one reason why I don’t like actors like Vincent D’Onofrio. They hog every freakin’ scene they’re in, even when it’s totally inappropriate and that (imho) is a sign of limited acting. Ackles doesn’t do that. It’s not that he does nothing in those scenes, just that he doesn’t draw unnecessary attention to himself when he’s not the focus. That’s probably why he has the rep of being a character actor. “Stars” don’t seem to know, or care, how to do that.

      @castiel’scat
      I watched DS9 fairly recently on Spike, so it’s fairly fresh in my memory. Also, I watched most of the episodes more than once at the time. If I could afford the friggin’ hugely expensive DVDs, I’d own all the seasons. DS9 and TOS are easily my favourite Trek series. They’ve aged the best of the five series.

      Try this promo:

      http://spn-party.livejournal.com/32105.html#cutid1

      I missed the sword comment, but I haven’t had a chance to rewatch the episode yet, so I’ll look for it when I do tonight.

  25. castiel'scat

    Thanks. Agreed on ds9. The original series? Yeah I liked it but am absolutely loyal to jean-luc. Never got into voyager or enterprise. They hit it out of the park with ds9. Amazing what some DVDs cost. Friday 13 series finally dropped to acceptable price point so looking forward to that. Check Amazon frequently, sometimes the prices drop for a short time. I got s1-5 supernatural for 15$ each. Lucky.

  26. Cassieo

    @castiel’scat – That’s the first thing I thought of when I saw the tablet. It can’t be old leviathan, but maybe some old human info that the levies need. And good thought on Dean setting the bomb. Interesting that more Sam sites, think he did it. Guess that’s the benefit of not saying in the episode. Everyone can think it was who they liked.

    As for why Bobby never mentioned the maps before, it wasn’t time for the series to start winding down. That’s all. Just wanted to wait till the last few episodes. As for why Dean is on the ground in the promo, he might not be the lead character in the last few episodes. It’s probable more either Cass of Bobby that will be highlighted. And in this episode the archangels are back, so it’s really going to be Cas-centric this time.

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