TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/11/12

This entry is part 15 of 26 in the series Spoilers 2012: Part 1

Being Human had its season finale this week. Season three should return next January. Lost Girl also had its season one finale, but Syfy decided to go immediately into the show’s 22-episode season two (which just ended in Canada). So, we’ll get more Lost Girl at least until the week before Memorial Day and we’ll continue reviewing it, as well.

This week, we have spoilers for Once Upon a Time and Supernatural:

Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina

A little light on the spoilers this week, maybe because of the show’s hiatus. The show will return on April 22!

The new press release is out for the episode, “The Stranger”, which airs on April 29:


“‘The Stranger’ – August promises to enlighten Emma and take her on a journey that will show her how she can beat Regina, and possibly take custody of Henry; and with Mary Margaret returning to work, Regina puts a plan in motion to seduce David. Meanwhile, in the fairytale land that was, with the Evil Queen’s curse about to strike, Geppetto agrees to a plan that will save Snow White and Prince Charming’s daughter, but with a proviso that could also save his own son, on Once Upon a Time, SUNDAY, APRIL 29 (8:00-9:01 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

Once Upon a Time stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Robert Carlyle as Rumpelstiltskin/Mr. Gold, Lana Parrilla as Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David, Eion Bailey as August, Jared Gilmore as Henry Mills, and Raphael Sbarge as Jiminy Cricket/Archie Hopper.

Guest starring are Tony Amendola as Marco/Geppetto, Keegan Connor Tracy as Mother Superior/Blue Fairy, Jakob Davies as Pinocchio, Rick Dobran as Raskind, and Isaiah Lehtinen as Gordie.

“‘The Stranger’ was written by Ian Goldberg & Andrew Chambliss and directed by Gwyneth Horder-Payton.”

It is sounding like August could be Pinocchio and I’ve seen it speculated that he could also be the boy who found Emma. In the first episode, we saw that Pinocchio was already a real boy and the cupboard could only take one person, which was why neither of her parents could go with her, once Emma was born. So, unless Gepetto had Pinocchio changed back into a puppet, in the hopes he could sneak him in and that Pinocchio would turn real once he was transported to the real world, I’m not sure how Pinocchio would have made it to the real world and escaped the curse.

I still hope that August is Baelfire, if only because it would be more compelling to me. Gepetto isn’t a main character like Rump is and, quite frankly, once Pinocchio and Gepetto are reunited, their story is done. There’s still so much more drama to play out with what happened to Rump, how that affected him and how it affected Baelfire, as well as their relationship, that it seems as if there is more story to tell if August is Baelfire, than there is if he is Pinocchio.

Anyways. SpoilerTV has up pictures for this episode. Looks like David is a wee bit repulsed by Regina’s attempted seduction of him. The less said about that storyline for me, the better! I’m all for Emma getting custody of Henry though!

TV Guide had up an article called “An Open Letter to Once Upon A Time: Let Snow and Charming Be Together Already.” Jane Espenson, Ginnifer Goodwin and Josh Dallas all have some quotes in there, and Jane pulls out the old Moonlighting quote, which just makes me lose all respect for anyone who does that. Because, really, that show had huge backstage problems with two actors who couldn’t stand each other. And yet, every writer uses it as an excuse to not get a couple together. To which I say: A good writer would be able to figure it out, so if you’re already claiming you can’t do something because some other show couldn’t do it, maybe you aren’t as good a writer as you think you are.

And finally, TV Guide‘s annual “Fan Favorites” issue came out. Lana Parrilla’s Regina won for “Favorite Villain” and the show won for “Favorite New Show”.

Supernatural (Friday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

Since it’s still in the first half of the hellatus and the week after Easter, spoilers remain a weak tea (The show returns on April 20th. This week’s repeat is “Slash Fiction”). First up, Supernatural won “Favorite Horror Series” in the aforementioned “Fan Favorites” issue of TV Guide (due out today). The article is not terribly spoilery and the Supernatural section appears to have been written before the news about Gamble stepping down last week. But there are some nice photos, with Padalecki and Ackles on the cover.

The synopsis for 7.20 (“The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo”) is up:

“FELICIA DAY (THE GUILD, EUREKA) GUEST STARS – Dick Roman (James Patrick Stuart) acquires Frank’s hard drive that contains sensitive information about the Winchesters and gives it to an unsuspecting brilliant hacker named Charlie (guest star Day) telling her she has 48 hours to crack the firewall or she is fired. Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) are tipped off that Dick has the hard drive and race to get to Charlie before she breaks the code. Meanwhile, Bobby (Jim Beaver) tries to help the brothers, but his rage towards Dick for killing him starts to get in the way. John MacCarthy directed the episode written by Robbie Thompson (#720).”

Author S.E. Hinton (The Outsiders, Rumble Fish, Tex) visited the set. She’s been a big fan for years and last visited during the filming of “Yellow Fever”. She tweeted about it during her stay, and also took some photos of herself with various cast and crew. Samantha Smith also tweeted an old photo of pre-series John and Mary.

A couple of other photos got fans all excited. One that Jim Michaels tweeted of Hinton posing with Robert Singer and Jerry Wanek’s nephew showed them standing in front of the Liéferinxe painting from “Lucifer Rising“. Michaels claimed it was “a very old set not in use,” but the set was different (darker paneling and two lamps on either side of the painting) than it has ever appeared on the show, and both Hinton and the nephew’s visits were this past week. Guy Bee, who was directing last week, also tweeted a pic of the same painting, with the caption “Angel Light”. Some evangelicals equate Leviathan with the Devil, making Michael the destroyer of Leviathan. Don’t forget that behind-the-scenes photos (all of the above come from the filming of 7.22) also showed the Impala in the house. And actor Kevin Kase tweeted a pic of himself, posing with Padalecki and Ackles. It sounds as though he plays a Leviathan or demon, backing up Hinton’s vague spoiler that the episode has quite a lot of action.

Finally, Good Friday ratings for the repeat of “Shut Up, Dr. Phil” were meh, with a 0.3/1 in the demo and 820 thousand in audience. The show is still in no danger, ratings-wise, though.

So, speculation: I know we talked at length in the comments last week about a return of Michael. Keep in mind that this is only one possibility and that, even if Michael comes back, he may not be played by Jensen Ackles. It’s also possible that Ghost!Bobby will save the day (if he doesn’t go ghost!bonkers, first), that Sam will somehow save the day, that the Leviathans will appear to be triumphant in the cliffhanger at the end of the season, that the brothers will make some kind of deal with Crowley, or that Castiel and/or Meg might even step up and have a crack at world-saving. It’s too early to tell, though I’m leaning against Ghost!Bobby, if only because the things they say in the synopses this season have generally not been the really important mytharc stuff. Which means that Ghost!Bobby’s info may be hiding something about another character (It’s usually Dean) in 7.20.

We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm, and Supernatural.


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IFPTV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/11/12

52 Comments on “TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/11/12”

  1. Crowley_Gal

    According to Jake Abel’s Twitter he’s headed to Vancouver. I really hope its for Percy Jackson and not Supernatural. I have no desire to see Adam again.

  2. Ginger

    I really have no idea where they are going with this season, so I’m just hoping that Carver had some input into the finale to set himself up nicely for S8. Am I remembering correctly that Singer said Dick would be taken care of this season, though? That could still leave Edgar around leading the rest of the Levi, which I wouldn’t mind at all. Edgar is much scarier than corporate slimball Roman.

    If the Impala returning means some of Dean’s old character is returning, then I’ll be more than excited. If not, then ‘ho hum,’ just more audience manipulation…but I sure do welcome a leather coat back on the guy.

    You know, I think I’m jealous of S.E. Hinton. Yeah, I am. Color me green, the lucky gal.

    1. Cassieo

      Oh…I forgot to mention. I thought I read where both Roman and the leviathan stories would wrap this season. Some were from Robert Singer, and he seems reliable, and some were from Gamble, and she is not reliable. Once I heard Carver was taking over it seemed that that would make sense so he could have a clean slate to start rebuilding the series next year.

      I didn’t read anything about Adam returning, but if it was from Gamble I wouldn’t put much stock into it. She really doesn’t like giving out spoilers.

  3. elena

    Thanks, ladies.

    Wow, it’s like a barren SPN spoiler desert these days, isn’t it? I miss the old days- at least we had sides to dissect and speculate over.

    I’m not sure what sort of sensitive info Frank would have on the Winchesters, considering all the info the Leviathans probably downloaded from Cas’ noggin’. And what was Frank doing with that sort of disc anyways? Insurance? Paranoid info gathering?

    I hope rageful Ghost!Bobby means just that- Bobby starting to become an angry spirit and nothing more. Although, since Dean still has the flask in those 6.22 photos, Bobby might be around for the finale. I’m preparing myself for the possibility of Bobby becoming incarnate again at some point.

    Jake Abel just tweeted “Goodbye Albuturkey, hello Vancougar.” According to IMDB, filming on the Percy Jackson sequel starts on the 16th in Vancouver, which would give him time to possibly film some SPN beforehand.

    On a purely shallow note, I was just looking again at those photos of Dean in his new leather jacket and that boy looks mighty fine!

    1. Ginger

      Agree they aren’t doing much to build momentum, are they.

      If Jake Abel comes back for anything more than a cameo, I will seriously puke. I know some fans want that dangling chat wrapped up, but I hate that character and have since he was first introduced. I can live through a cameo to send him back to Heaven, but anything more than that and I’ll turn off the TV.

      Yum, yum. Dean and leather coats. Yes! More, please.

  4. Heather S. Vina

    The latest synopsis for Supernatural is out:

    “CASTIEL AWAKENS FROM HIS COMATOSE STATE — Meg (guest star Rachel Miner) calls Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Sam (Jared Padalecki) and tells them Castiel (guest star Misha Collins) is awake and talking. Meanwhile, a teenager named Kevin (guest star Osric Chau) gets hit by a bolt of lightening and is turned into a reluctant prophet. Sam and Dean believe Kevin holds the key to defeating the Leviathans but must fight off two Archangels who want him for their own purposes. The episode was written and directed by Ben Edlund (#721).”

    Bringing up Archangels does seem to give more credence to the Michael theories, but I do fear that Jake Abel could be going up to film an episode. Hopefully it’s NOT to take away story from Jensen again, but maybe just to make a cameo being freed and returned to Heaven while Dean deals with Michael as he should have in season 5.

  5. anotherjoy

    “Bringing up Archangels does seem to give more credence to the Michael theories, but I do fear that Jake Abel could be going up to film an episode. Hopefully it’s NOT to take away story from Jensen again, but maybe just to make a cameo being freed and returned to Heaven while Dean deals with Michael as he should have in season 5.”

    It seems to me that those two options — Jake Abel as Michael’s meatsuit vs. Jake Abel as Adam only — hinge almost exclusively on who is actually writing the episode. I’m still holding out hope it’s Jeremy Carver. I’m much more likely to handle anything he throws at me as the beginning of his story direction than a parting shot from Gamble or a ghostly reappearance by Kripke.

  6. Paula R. Stiles

    Some pics of Felicia Day are also out. Man, they really frumped her up:

    It’s entirely possible that he is filming the new Percy Jackson film. He has a couple of projects going on right now and his time must be very limited.

    It’s a logical progression, though, if he is doing some filming for SPN. If Michael is to return, and Ackles isn’t to be run ragged with doubling against himself so late in the season, Abel has to play him, initially. There has to be a period of seduction, however short, before Dean says yes, and I can’t see Dean saying yes until he’s established that Adam has been released and sent to Heaven. Funny how Dean is the only one who gives a crap about Adam and Adam’s fate, when he never liked the kid.

    It’s possible that Abel will do a quick cameo, along the lines of Mark Pellegrino’s Nickifer in “Swan Song”, that paves the way for Ackles to play Michael, perhaps in the very last scene of 7.23 as the cliffhanger.

    @Heather S. Vina
    Well, it does seem to lend credence to the idea that Michael is coming back. On the other hand, any synopsis writer who doesn’t know the difference between “comatose” and “catatonic” (what Castiel really is at the moment) may well not know the difference between “archangel” and “angel”. They’ve gotten things wrong before.

    I bet Castiel’s sudden recovery is directly connected to the appearance of these (arch)angels.

    Not feelin’ the whole prophet angle. At all. Much as I like Rob Benedict, I never cared for the idea of prophets and was equally unimpressed by Chuck and Leah (well, until the latter turned out to be the Whore of Babylon!). Besides, if this kid is a prophet, all he’s really there to do is record what the brothers do to stop the Leviathans. He has no power of his own. Just another bystander.

    There a few options, some better than others. Abel could be up there to film the Percy sequel and not SPN at all. He could be up there to film an entire episode of Michael, either rampaging around the planet or taunting Dean in dreams. Michael could be in Sam or Castiel’s memories. Or Abel could be there to play a cameo of MichaelAdam as a transition to DeanMichael. If Dean does say yes, we could end up with that transitional moment being the cliffhanger, or it could be that Dean says yes, Michael pulps Dick, and then Team Free Will has to deal with Michael in his true vessel as the cliffie. Or Dick might get the drop on Michael. It’s too early to tell.

    I do agree that a good bit depends on who writes it, not least because of what Carver just did with Sally and even with Nora. Not to get too spoilery for “Being Human”, but it could turn out that, after an initial freak-out over it, Dean could end up with a very different attitude from Sam and, paradoxically, learn to love having an archangel inside him.

  7. Ginger

    I’m not feeling the dragon girl, the prophet, the re-introduction of the angel storyline, or the Michael thing. It’s all sounding like another re-do of Sam’s story given to Dean to play this time. I shouldn’t have got my hopes up, as SG has done nothing but tell fanfic or re-do stories.

    I don’t watch Being Human, so I read your recap to see if there was perhaps hope in there in case Jeremy Carver wrote SPN’s finale. It didn’t sound like a very good finale to me, so I didn’t get any hope out of it for the SPN finale.

    If they do go with Michael possessing Dean, it just continues the theme of the story that I am getting in that humans are pathetically weak and need supernatural assistance to accomplish anything. That wouldn’t surprise me either, since the brothers haven’t been all that heroic this season and have needed help in what little killing they have managed. Basically, I prefer Dean remain human, especially since Sam has been pretty much ruined as a character by all his supernatural storylines.

    These spoilers are living me pretty meh about the next five episodes and even S8. My last remaining hope is that Carver can do something original and put some sparkle back into the show.

  8. Marisol

    Didn’t Gamble say in an early season interview that we would be seeing Adam sometime this season?

  9. Cassieo

    Thanks Paula for the round up.

    The last episode for SPN started filming last Monday and takes 8 days usually. They don’t work on Sunday so if Abel is up there this weekend he’d be there when they are filming SPN. I really hope he in NOT involved in the finale but there are all kinds of rumors that the ‘new’ SPN will be what fans have wanted to see for a while. They are going to ‘reincarnate’ all kinds of Dead folk that fans want back. Jim Beaver, Misha Collins and more.

    Graham Yost gave an interview this week about Justified, and he was asked if Jim Beaver would be back as the new sheriff in the next season. He said they would have to see what his schedule for SPN would be like first. Also Beaver has been tweeting to fans in words that really seem like he will be in s8.

    Also is seems Misha mentioned in a Q&A at a convention that he didn’t get involved in the pilot season this year so that he would be available for SPN in s8.

    I hope this is true and they also bring back Rufus and Ellen. And I don’t care how they do it. With Carver on board, I think it will be creative and original no matter what he does.

    As for Michael, I REALLY hope they aren’t going there. Now with the appearance of these archangels I’m hoping that means no Michael.

    I did some research on line and most religions say “god” has to kill the leviathan. Only one text mentioned archangels killing it and then it was either Michael and Gabriel. I have been trying to find out where Speight Jr is doing becasue with this possible re-animation od dead things, maybe he will be one of the angels that returns.

    Also there were 7 archangels originally, Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Selaphiel, Jegudiel, and Barachiel. Lucifer isn’t considered among them but the show stated he was one. Michael is in the pit with Lucy and 3 others are dead, for right now. That leaves three that could appear looking for Cas. And that is only if SPN decides to follow the text, which it hasn’t so far. There are more options than Michael, so I hope they leave him and Adam in the cage. Really I can’t deal with another brothers shattered wall.

  10. Laurie

    Wow. Every spoiler for the end of the season is repulsive to me. What the heck are they doing? You’re right, Kripke better not be writing it, like Cameron ruined Dark Angel because he didn’t even know where they had taken the story.

    I can’t help but note that the spoilers and sitings of Dean are very few and far between, as we end the season. Very familiar, if they’re giving Dean the backseat in the finale again. I don’t even care, as long as Dean’s on the screen in the Impala by the end. They can have the rest of their crapfest angel/Leviathan arc.

    I’ll wait for S8 and Carver’s brand of Deanus-interruptus.

  11. Ginger

    She either said we would or that it was possible. If I remember correctly, it was something to the effect that they had not forgotten about Adam.

  12. Ginger

    Soory, the above post should have been a reply to Marisol (and I thought I had hit the reply button).

    Yes, Laurie, I’m finding them repulsive, too. I’ve decided to be pragmatic about it and just view it as anything that will make Dean as ‘special’ as the other characters will have to do. Then I’m going to hope that Carver can do something with S8.

    Re: “there are all kinds of rumors that the ‘new’ SPN will be what fans have wanted to see for a while. They are going to ‘reincarnate’ all kinds of Dead folk that fans want back. Jim Beaver, Misha Collins and more.”

    I’m beyond done with the dead brought back to life. Personally, I’d rather see new stories with new characters and leave all the dead resting in peace. Instead of Ellen, make a role with that Ezra actress. Instead of Bobby, give us an older recurring hunter character the likes of Rufus or some of John’s old acquaintenances. Send the angels back to Heaven — the trickster was fine, but not fine as Gabriel. Balty served his purpose, and I never had an emotional investment in him anyway. As the man said, “Move on, for God’s sake!)

  13. Sunny

    Thanks for the spoilers, guys!

    In regards to Once Upon A Time; ugh if they keep dragging out Snow and Charming, and I can’t even voice how beyond tired of Regina I am. I swear if the good guys don’t start to win something soon I’m gonna explode. Regina already gets on my last nerve and I hate how the show keeps trying to make her sympathetic. She’s horrible, end of story.

    The Ghost!Bobby thing amuses me but not in a good way. I just find it kinda funny how some people were saying “Death’s Door” was this magical/emotional hour of television and such a wonderful good-bye for Bobby…and yet there Bobby is rambling on. Might even ramble on into S8. Which basically makes Death’s Door a total waste of time, and nothing more than a ploy to drum up more emotion/angst. Sometimes I don’t mind when tv shows do that but in this case by the time they got to the episode I didn’t care anymore. And I figured Bobby would be back in some form because while Gamble probably enjoyed killing him off, she also knows the fans like him and I don’t think she was honestly willing to get rid of anyone forever except for Castiel. It’s really a shame though because like Sam, I used to love Bobby and always sort of worried about him. But now I just wish they’d either let him go for good or just bring him back already. Enough waffling.

    I’m enjoying the Michael speculation but I don’t want Jake Abel back as him. I just want to see how Jensen would play Michael at least once. Also I’m really wondering what the “big bad” is gonna be for S8 if the Leviathans are taken care of in the finale. As someone who really enjoyed the show more once the angels arrived for everyone to play off of, I wouldn’t mind more angel stuff. Especially if it keeps Castiel around. At the very least they could answer what the hell is going on up in Heaven after that smackdown Godstiel delivered.

  14. Paula R. Stiles

    I can live with a redo of the angels storyline if it ends better than that crap they had in “Swan Song”. But the stuff with the kid prophet? Not feelin’ that so much.

    Last season’s finale of “Being Human” was better. This season, I think they peaked a little early with “Dream Reaper” and the Scott plot.

    As far as humans being weak in the SPNverse, I think that ship sailed years ago. Would it be nice if Dean, as a human, killed Dick? Sure. But where’s the buildup? Where are any references to the phoenix ash in Dean’s blood? Where is there anything besides the superlame “revelation” a dozen episodes ago that borax gives Leviathans sunburn?

    If the show isn’t going to give humans the necessary, everyday tools to win, then bring on DeanMichael and the dancing girls, and go all Ten Commandments on Dick’s oily ass.

    They can always bring back Lee. Ian Tracey is Vancouver-based. Yes, I am throwing some loud hints the writers’ way.

    Yeah, she said that both seasons. She also said that Kali and the Alpha Vamp would be back. Haven’t seen hide nor hair of them, either.

    Shooting ends the 18th, which is next Wednesday.

    Those are just rumours. The only reliable spoilers so far are that Jim Beaver is filming (apparently in his Ghost!Bobby clothes) and that Misha Collins is also on set. And that Jake Abel is in town.

    I don’t want them to reincarnate craploads of people, let alone do a reset, unless there is a *heavy* price to pay. I’m talking Dean-went-down-to-crossroads heavy.

    Graham Yost is unlikely to know anything about what’s going on with SPN, since Justified is done for the season and even the SPN writers don’t know yet what will be going next season because they don’t have official word there will be a next season.

    I’ll take Michael over Lucifer coming back, in any form, any day of the week. If I had to suffer with Fauxifer all damned season, I think I’m entitled to some DeanMichael in compensation.

    Michael is the big monster-killer of JudaeoChristian lore. He has a lot of different dragon-leviathan-Satan-killing stories about him. Keep in mind that Michael and God are conflated in some sects.

    It would be stupid at this point to have any new archangels pop up. Where the hell were they during the Apocalypse/War in Heaven? I don’t think the writers could ever explain that properly, so they should just stick with the four they’ve got. Two are dead; two are in the Cage (not the Pit). Just have Michael kill Lucifer and bust out, and problem solved.

    There are enough hints that Dean is front and centre the rest of the season that Dean fans shouldn’t be concerned. Anyway, the crickets are chirping even louder when it comes to Sam’s storyline these days.

    I could see Ghost!Bobby coming a mile away the moment they started dragging out “Death’s Door”. I kept hoping they wouldn’t step in that particular cow flop, but some writers, they just gotta go rompin’ through a plotfield without looking ahead. That was a major reason I was so unmoved by that episodes. It felt so manipulative, pretty much the way most of Bobby’s arc has been all season. I don’t like being manipulated like that. It’s meanspirited and shallow writing.

    While it’s a possibility he will have a more major role, I doubt MichaelAdam will be back for more than a cameo. I do know that I have zero interest in Michael if anyone but Ackles plays him. The character was obviously created with the idea that Ackles would eventually play him. Fans want Dean to wear Michael not the other way around. Any other actor’s gonna be underwhelming in contrast.

  15. Caroline C

    You guys have got me all excited and fired up about the possibility of Michael!Dean, but unfortunately I don’t think the current writers would be able to do it justice if they did go that route. I live in hope that they prove me wrong.

    I know some people aren’t too happy about it, but I like the idea of bringing the angel storyline back to tie into the leviathan plot, assuming this is what the spoilers mean – who knows! For me the appearance of the leviathan as the Big Bads of the season felt really forced and in some way detached from previous Big Bads across the series as a whole, precisely because they lacked a biblical connection (I mean within the context of the show so far) which has been a consistent thread, right back to YED in season 1. So it makes sense to embed the leviathan back into the wider SPN-verse mythology. So long as they keep the humans (especially Dean please) front and centre of the action I think it could be good.

    Not sure what to think about Ghost!Bobby still being about in the season finale, if he goes all vengeful spirit it could be fun, but I hope he doesn’t end up being the one that kills Dick Roman. I also hate the idea of Bobby-the-friendly-ghost so if he has to stick around for season 8, just bring him back properly already!

    I would really like to know who wrote the season finale – does anyone know why they still haven’t released that info (or have I just missed it somewhere?)

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      The Leviathans have turned out to be a huge disappointment. They can be redeemed as villains, but the show needs to start off that redemption by getting rid of Dick Roman. The “Dick’ jokes are childish and annoying, and Dick himself is possibly the most underwhelming Big Bad the show has ever had, even taking into consideration Child Lilith. The guy is not even remotely scary.

      The problem with Bobby on the whole is that he has no more storyline. That’s kinda what happens when you give a character an extended and bathetic swan song that you drag out over two episodes, and then kill him off. He’s been dead for eight episodes. In that time, everyone (with the exception of Dean) has become reconciled to that fact. The Hunters all know he is dead. If he comes back as a ghost–good or bad–they won’t accept him. If he’s resurrected, he will always get the side-eye.

      The show never really dealt with this in Dean’s resurrection (as it absolutely should have), but being dead for months on end has got to be a creepy deal for the traumatised people who hunt supernatural creatures–most of them undead-or-ex-humans of some variety–for a living. After all the brouhaha and handwringing over Sam having a few powers and a little demon blood in his body, nobody so much as flinched at the fact that his brother had been underground (and reputedly revived by an angel) for four months. That was totally handwaved, but you can only handwave something that blatant once. No way can the show get away with having Bobby just go back to business as usual when everybody knows that Bobby has been…you know…dead.

      It has not been reported who wrote the season finale, just that its title is now “Survival of the Fittest” and Bob Singer is the director. It’s usually the showrunner who writes the season finale and, considering they’ve already said Gamble is stepping down, you’d think there’d be no issues about releasing that she’s writing it. Which leads to inevitable speculation that Carver is coming in earlier than implied and that he wrote the season finale. Just because it was reported at a certain point doesn’t mean that the report preceded the changing of the guard behind the scenes. They often wait until something like that is a done deal before reporting it.

      If Carver is writing the season finale (and this is purely speculative based on the possibility that he might be), I think it would be almost a given that Dean says yes to Michael. And it is entirely possible that Dean *could* stipulate a general resurrection of loved ones as a condition of saying yes. I really think he’s that Monkey’s-Paw crazy right now. If that happens, though, regardless of who is doing this season’s finale, I’m reasonably sure, based on Carver’s track record with “Being Human”, that some disastrous reaction would occur early next season. For example, Dean might end up in partial control, but with Michael permanently inside him, and the constant jockeying for position drives them both insane. Or, Dean can’t just use angel powers–in fact, must avoid using any non-human powers–because every time he tries, Michael would try to grab control back from him. It’s even possible that Dean would find he *likes* Michael’s powers (Dean seems to enjoy superpowers, as long as they’re temporary) and finds he has to resist the urge to use them (with dire consequences if he gives in).

      Those of you who watch “Being Human” (and read my BH reviews) can see that this speculation comes from the way Carver and his wife have dealt with similar themes on that show. So, this is not just fantasy spinning. Carver really, really, *really* likes to hedge in great powers with hideous consequences. He is also quite fond of dual personalities (Two of the housemates have literal dual personalities and the third has a metaphorical one. I won’t say which is which, as that would be spoilery for at least two).

  16. Ginger

    For me this is a case of burned once, BEWARD. Swan Song and a whiny JakeAbelMichael and Sam/Lucifer with daddy issues was nothing but terrible. Yet, Paula, you are giving me hope that IF Carver writes DeanMichael, and we all know JA would be awesome, perhaps the curse of the show always doing worse with a do-over character and/or storyline might be broken.

    Couldn’t agree more about Dick Roman being not scary at all. Corporate America may be the most popular bad guy around these days, but it is not horror show scary, and neither is Dick. Besides, throwing out his name once in a while does not build terror or suspense, or even eminent showdown tension.

    Yep, so many problems with bringing Bobby back, and if those problems aren’t dealt with, then there sure will be a lot of fan snarking going on about that. (I’ll probably be the worst of them.)

    It almost seems that Carver has to be writing the finale, doesn’t it? I’ve hoped ever since the showrunner news came out. Sure hope I am not disappointed.

  17. Cassieo

    Paula, I don’t mind Michael coming back as long as it is on Dean’s terms and that he works FOR Dean… not take him over. If Michael!Adam comes back, again as long as he bows to Dean’s plan, I’m fine with it. I am so tired of Dean being upstaged that, with SG still in charge, I can see her doing it all over again. Kind of like her own swan song to her Sam-fans. I want to see Dean REALLY kick some ass and at this point I don’t care who it is…Roman, Crowley, Meg, ANYONE. And I want to see Sam shut his pie-hole and follow his brother….just once!

    As for as people coming back, if it is done creatively I don’t have a problem with it. But I’m talking an original idea that has never been done before. Not the ‘shower’ seen in Dallas or some dream someone had. I really think Carver can do that. If not him Edlund could, but getting back characters that fans liked, even if they only crop up 1 or 2 episodes a year, will mean a lot to fans. At least they know their favorites are not dead.

    And Ginger, like you everyone has one character they want back…and for each it’s different. I love Bobby and Rufus and have no problem with Cass as long as he helps the boys, but doesn’t solve the whole thing for them.

    It’s interesting Paula that you also consider Luci an archangel because in all the stuff I’ve read he is not mentioned as one of the 7 archangels. I always considered him one too. And the series does as well but where we are getting that from I can’t find anywhere on line.

    As for the archangels that we have seen in the series 3 are dead, Raphael, Uriel and Gabriel, Michael and Luci are in the cage (sorry for calling it the pit) so that leaves only two or three (if Luci really isn’t an archangel) that could show up….and there are no definitive names they are given. And yes, where they were doing the War we don’t know but I guess it’s possible they were fighting on a different front or just plain hiding from Godstiel since he decided to kill anything with wings. Maybe now that he is no longer powerful, they have come to take him back to pay for his crimes. I could buy that. If that’s the case, I can see Cass coming out of his trance (or whatever they are calling it) real fast.

    As for Yost knowing anything about the series, I really think TPTB already have been told they have a s8, hence Beaver would know it too, and Collins. So Beaver could have told Yost he would have to see what SPN was doing before he agreed to be on the series again. I believe they start filming the new season of Justified in early to late fall. And if Collins avoided the pilot season for SPN, I don’t think his agent would have allowed that if he didn’t know work for Collins was in the bag.

    It really is strange that the have not released who is writing the finale. If it was Carver, with all the great accolades WB has been getting for bring him on, why not say its him? And why not release that info when they announced he was taking over?

    If it’s Gamble or Kripke, I can see them keeping it quite. No one wants to see either of them do anymore writing for the show.

  18. Cassieo

    Ooops I forgot, I love BH and have watched both seasons…started as soon as I heard Carver with behind it. I know who you are calling dual personalities, but I don’t get the third one as metaphorical. If you can explain without doing any harm to the other two, I would appreciate it.

  19. castiel'scat

    Great spec as always. Didn’t chuck get visions before things happened. He was able to provide Dean valuable Intel ( and to comment that Dean was acting out of the story by showing up in swan song) he also saw things that happened away from the boys (Crowley getting the colt)
    I can totally see Dean thinking a prophet can provide valuable Intel about what the Leviathan are up to and how to kill them.

    The angelic return is something I have suspected for a while… lets face it between cas and fauxifer that story was not dropped. I agree that it makes little sense to reintroduce Michael and not have Dean agree to host him. Of course we are all biased here. It will depend on the vision guiding these final episodes. Hopefully the change-up was in part to address lost fans and recognizes that writing Dean out of the story was a mistake and constantly hammering Sam’s specialness is a big mistake and boring.
    Having deanmichael prevailing over evil will be a karmic redux of the apocalypse of sorts. It won’t erase the last two years, however it will set 8 on a righteous path.

    I like the idea of special Dean. Having powers is a believable source of angst for him. I also see him wanting to resurrect people whose deaths he believes are his fault. If the angels could reverse the Titanic sinking then erase all memories of the new timeline they could erase the icky ‘you’re dead’ factor from a few resurrections.

    Who knows. It’s a brand new something.

  20. Marisol

    If Bobby turns out to be the Dick destroyer, then that will make two finales in a row where the brothers are just bystanders and not power participants in their own show. I certainly hope they don’t go that route, because I for one need some major heroic Dean happening to redeem the last three seasons of Dean’s dropped plots (sorry, I never think in terms of wanting Sam to do anything of importance.) Though I have enjoyed this season a lot, for me there really hasn’t been any real depth to the action or meat on the angst bone. It’s all been a little too episodic, which I know can change with the last few episodes, but as it stands now, there is been no solid thread through the center from beginning to end yet.

    I don’t know how it works, but it seems that it would make sense for Carver to write the finale as it will be the stepping stone, at least partially, to whatever plans he has for next season. I am assuming that he came to the table with a plan, and that being involved a little in the finale would only benefit the show and its future. I can only hope, and hope he delivers everything we all want him to. Poor man, he has a lot of expectations to live up to.

  21. Paula R. Stiles

    You mean “BEWARE”, right?

    I don’t know how this season will turn out. Even if Carver does write the season finale, he’ll have to deal with somebody else’s season mytharc. So, it pays to be cautious. As far as Bobby is concerned, even if he comes back fully alive, I can see Carver providing him with many consequences that would make him regret it. Again, that’s how Carver rolls.

    The names of the seven archangels change with different sources. Lucifer is often considered an archangel, as well, presumably because archangels are high-ranking angels and he would need a high rank before his fall to explain his ability to lead a rebellion in Heaven.

    The reason why mass-resurrections of characters without a reset has not been done is because it’s so chaotic. They wouldn’t have lives that they could just step back into. It would be a mini-version of “The 4400” and those characters’ stories would overshadow Sam and Dean’s.

    The show has always said there were only four archangels (going with a traditional idea that there are four especially holy archangels), whether stated outright or by inference. Do we really want to wish for yet more silly retconning and adding of more archangels at this point? We’d never get rid of the threat of the Apocalypse, then, because yet another archangel could just pop up and want to get it all going, again.

    Yost has no inside information. He is the showrunner of an entirely different show who has talked to a recurring guest star of his who also happens to work on SPN. Not only is it unlikely that the showrunners (even if they knew for a fact they were renewed) would tell the guest stars before the network made an announcement, Beaver is *not* so unprofessional as to tell Yost anything. And Yost would be hesitant to jump the gun of another network’s show. He might have to work with those people, someday.

    In other words, Yost has no inside information. Everybody and their mother is assuming that SPN will be renewed, based on its ratings and the happy noises from the network. It therefore makes sense that Yost would take that into consideration. It does not mean he has any inside information, whatsoever.

    I would assume they haven’t released the script author’s info because it’s a big spoiler. If it’s Carver, it doesn’t take much inference about where he’d go in terms of story. Obviously, they want to keep quiet whoever is doing it because they want it to be a surprise.

    The metaphorical person is the one with the dark past who seems nice (even wishy-washy) now, but used to be really vicious, whose dark side keeps coming out to play.

    Yeah, the show is probably using this kid prophet as a cheap way of getting the brothers some info on how to defeat Dick–seeing as how the writers took away all of the means in which they could figure it out on their own.

    I’d rather not see a reset. In my experience, nothing kills my interest faster. If there is a reset, it makes it pointless to try to guess about the story or get invested in it because, if the writers go somewhere they don’t like, they’ll just completely change it around.

    It’s possible that Dean will maintain some kind of control over Michael. They do need some checks on Michael that would explain why he doesn’t just restart the Apocalypse, anyway.

    I think there’s a lot of dissatisfaction because the season should have started gearing up by now and it’s been tooling along with less-than-satisfactory MOTWs the past few episodes. Even the one with Sam in the hospital was not particularly mytharc-y, and the curse episode had some Leviathan stuff sideswipe the MOTW, without a lot of movement on either front. Fans are beginning to wonder when the show intends to get this party started.

    Carver does have a tall order to fill, but it’s only rock’nroll–err, I mean, television. So, it’s not impossible.

  22. Lily

    I’m really worried about Dean if Carver follows a “Sally duality”. You know what this has done to Sally, and Dean might like it for a while,but I think this will ultimately cost him a great deal. I’m not fond of bringing back the dead. If Dean where to bring back anyone, it would be his parents. Now do we really think that is going to happen? Please God do not bring back Jo. She was by far the most annoying character. I do think Dean might help those not at rest gain some peace because I think Sally might be trying to do just that. But to resurrect everyone in the SPN universe lost, where does it start and where does it end? Not a good idea at all. I can see Bobby because Gamble made a stupid mistake and it might be undone, but that’s as far as it goes.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      If they actually thought it through, it could be a very interesting dilemma for Dean–whom would he resurrect, if he could? Ash and Pam are happy. Mary and John are MIA. Jo appears to be happy and Ellen probably is, too. Grandpa Shady appears to have been in Hell (because Crowley could resurrect him). GS’s botched resurrection and the general issues with demons would probably give Dean pause in bringing back anyone who had gone to Hell, on top of the fact that a lot of the people he misses most were deeply unhappy on earth and are happier wherever they are now. And resurrections in the show have always resulted in dire consequences. Always. I absolutely include the brothers as prime examples of Death’s complaints about their disrupting the natural order.

      I’m not sure the fans rooting for Bobby to return alive would be doing so five or ten episodes later, if he came back like GS. After the first glow of being alive again…then what? He came back to help the brothers. That’s nice. But as a fully realised character, he ought to have more goals than just being the brothers’ pocket deus ex machina. Otherwise, don’t bring him back.

  23. Arafel

    So much goodness in the comments here…

    “I could see Ghost!Bobby coming a mile away the moment they started dragging out “Death’s Door”. I kept hoping they wouldn’t step in that particular cow flop, but some writers, they just gotta go rompin’ through a plotfield without looking ahead. That was a major reason I was so unmoved by that episodes. It felt so manipulative, pretty much the way most of Bobby’s arc has been all season. I don’t like being manipulated like that. It’s meanspirited and shallow writing.

    While it’s a possibility he will have a more major role, I doubt MichaelAdam will be back for more than a cameo. I do know that I have zero interest in Michael if anyone but Ackles plays him. The character was obviously created with the idea that Ackles would eventually play him. Fans want Dean to wear Michael not the other way around. Any other actor’s gonna be underwhelming in contrast.”

    Thank you. So much, Paula. 🙂

    “Having deanmichael prevailing over evil will be a karmic redux of the apocalypse of sorts. It won’t erase the last two years, however it will set 8 on a righteous path.”

    So true.

    “If Carver is writing the season finale (and this is purely speculative based on the possibility that he might be), I think it would be almost a given that Dean says yes to Michael. And it is entirely possible that Dean *could* stipulate a general resurrection of loved ones as a condition of saying yes. I really think he’s that Monkey’s-Paw crazy right now.”

    I’m hoping REALLY hard that Carver had a say in the finale. As for this, it is probably the only way that I think I could or would accept a newly corporeal Bobby. Otherwise, Bobby or no, the character should just move on already, IMO.

    I love it. So much.-when Jensen Ackles gets to play “other” than human on this show; and I would love to see him play the Archangel Michael especially after reading that he advised Matt Cohen on how to portray the archangel in The Song Remains the Same. All I could think while watching that scene was “I can’t WAIT! to see Dean/Michael…” *sigh*…

    Thanks for the spoilers again, ladies.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      It is possible that the writers want Ghost!Bobby’s stubborness about moving on to show that someone is in Dean’s corner, for once. Which would be great, since Dean doesn’t trust anyone because everyone always seems to end up turning on him *and* dying on him. But I have a few problems with it. First is that the show keeps Telling us that Bobby’s devotion is for both Dean and Sam, while Showing us that it’s for Dean. This has the effect of diluting Bobby’s sacrifice for Dean while simultaneously making Bobby look like a jerk who talks about loving Sam, yet never shows any real love for him. I can sort of live with that, since Sam has had quite a lot of love and attention in the show. Sure, much of it was self-centred (like Ruby’s obsessive girlfriending), but he’s always had Dean in his corner, as well as positive love from maternal figures like Ghost!Mary and Missouri, and lovers like Jess, Sarah and Madison. And Bobby fawned over him while he was still alive. But I don’t see how it makes Ghost!Bobby’s obsession with Saving Dean an unalloyed Good, either. The one being in this show who doesn’t eventually reject, leave, or turn creepy on him is a ghostly stalker? Fabulous! [/sarcasm]

      Another problem is that John already did this and it just messed Dean up even more. People dying for Dean is not what he needs. It’s certainly not what he wants. People treating him with love and consideration while he’s alive is what he needs. Waiting until they die to treat him well is too late. I get that he is seriously messed up and rejects overt affection due to his upbringing, but that doesn’t make treating him like a mangy cur all right.

      And third is that Ghost!Bobby’s gaslighting isn’t doing Dean any good. In fact, it’s driving Dean insane. I don’t see any improvements on that front should Dean (or even Dean and Sam) find out Bobby really is attached to his flask. That just means that Dean doesn’t even have the bitter consolation of knowing Bobby is in a better place (because people who die on Dean’s behalf always seem to go to Heaven). It means he has to go through all that salting and burning again before Bobby goes rabid and turns into a vengeful spirit. I’m not sure his heart can take that.

      1. Ginger

        Exactly, Paula. All of these reasons are why I’m not excited about GhostBobby’s possible future on the show. I’m not saying it couldn’t work, but if Bobby remains a ghost, it completely changes Bobby’s character from surrogate Winchester father to Dean’s ghost, cutting Sam out of the mix completely. If Bobby is miraculously resurrected, then the viewers still know that he chose to stick around because he loved Dean and not ‘his boys.’

        I’ve always felt that he did like Dean the best and that Sam was in the mix because he was Dean’s brother. But the show went to great lengths to tell us that he loved Sam equally; yet this season, it is decidedly only Dean that carts him around in his jacket pocket and only Dean that has ‘seen’ him. If he remains as GhostBobby, then he can only be Dean’s ghost helper unless, Dean sometimes passes the flask to Sam to cart around in his jacket pocket so that he can be an opportune helper when Sam needs him — which would be just weird.

        There is the possibility that this is because in S8, when GhostBobby turns rabid, that Sam will have to step up and do the salting and burning, because Dean just can’t do it — which equals another loss for Dean and completely wipes out any emotional impact Death’s Door was supposed to have.

        I just don’t see how GhostBobby could choose to move on by himself. Ghosts always have to have help, don’t they? There was Molly in Road Kill that somehow managed to walk into the light on her own (which leaves me totally confused now about whether or not a ghost can just call up to the skies and say “I’ve changed my mind now.”), and that still leaves the audience believing that Bobby only loved Dean. Same thing if Bobby is magically resurrected — in death he only loved Dean.

        As you say, it just seems like any option available for Bobby’s character equals bad news for Dean.

        1. Paula R. Stiles

          I think it’s just as well, in some respects, that Bobby is not focused on Sam, since Sam has been portrayed as almost cold about Bobby’s death since “Death’s Door”. In that episode, he is genuinely and greatly distressed by Bobby’s imminent demise, but even then, he’s talking about how they have to be realistic about Bobby’s chances, while Dean is in near-hysterical denial. I’m guessing the intent, afterward, was to portray Sam as emotionally distancing himself from Bobby’s death because he already had his hands full dealing with Fauxifer (and if Fauxifer hadn’t been such a damp squib, it might have worked better). It’s possible that Sam’s response post-Bobby-mortem derives from the fact that he’s not the one being haunted. So, of course, he doesn’t feel any such presence unless he’s around Dean, and it’s easy to attribute that to folie a deux involving Dean’s crazy being catching.

          What I find interesting about “Party On, Garth” is that the show brings in outside observer, Garth, who takes an opposite view from Sam’s (that Bobby’s ghost *is* still around), yet comes to the same conclusion as Sam–that Bobby needs to move on. So, Dean’s position is given due consideration (and ultimately proven correct), while at the same time being shown as a highly dysfunctional response. The writers could have made it a true vindication moment of Dean’s instincts that would also reestablish him as sane. Instead, he’s both right and nuts (a little like Frank, who is superparanoid about Leviathans in his Velveeta, yet no more sane for being proven right). Curious that they didn’t take that obvious chance to short-circuit Dean’s “crazy” storyline.

          There are a few instances of ghosts who “moved on”, apparently on their own–notably, Molly and John. However, John seemed to believe his time was limited (so, perhaps, he had a Reaper whispering in his ear) and had already passed on to Hell (He happened to be escaping from it). And the light, for Molly, could easily be explained as the manifestation of the Reaper, who didn’t *have* to appear in humanoid form. Molly was held captive by a ghost who really didn’t want to move on, so she may well have been unable to go to her Reaper until she was freed. Once she realised she was dead, she was ready and the Reaper simply showed up to take her hand. I don’t think that ghosts can move out of the earthly realm without help from a psychopomp like a Reaper or a Hunter (the latter facilitating things by severing the ghost’s last ties to the earth).

          1. Ginger

            I wondered why the show would reveal to the audience that Dean’s instincts were right, yet not have Dean know that. You make good points with regard to that — showing Dean as correct, but still dysfunctional — and that seems to be the only incredible explanation. Yet, or perhaps it depends on how the Bobby storyline ends, it still leaves the audience feeling that Bobby loves only Dean and Sam is just Dean’s sidekick. More than that, though, in Party On, Garth, I did have a ‘feeling’ that they were beginning to short-circuit Dean’s nuts storyline. I don’t know why, but I did — maybe just because they always cut Dean’s story off at the knees.

            Then, again, it could come from the promo pix where Dean is looking at the flask, like he is realizing that Bobby is, in fact, attached to it — feeling those instincts of his. What were those pictures from? 7.20?

            Good explanation on Molly and John. John did seem like he had only a short time. I always assumed to had escaped Hell and was on his way to Heaven; therefore, the reaper could have been whispering in his ear. Do reapers come when a person dies, and then show up again when the soul escapes Hell and they are bound for Heaven or Hell again? Or do reapers only show up when it is the real deal death? Not important to ponder, I suppose.

            Anyway, thanks for the great response.

          2. Paula R. Stiles

            Since demons don’t get Reapers (that we’ve ever heard) when they escape Hell, I’m guessing that John didn’t get one after he escaped, either. If they did get Reapers, wouldn’t there be tons of Reapers there when the devil’s gate opened?

            The pictures of Dean looking at the flask are from 7.22. We have pictures of Ghost!Bobby in 7.23 (Dean is apparently not there. We don’t know how that happens). Ghost!Bobby is mentioned in 7.20 trying to help the brothers and it’s *possible* (though not confirmed) that they see him in this next episode.

            It’s too early to tell why the writers chose to prove Dean right, while also showing him as seriously not coping with Bobby’s death, but I’m guessing it’s because they need a reason to keep Ghost!Bobby around once he’s revealed to the brothers (if that happens in 7.19). Once Sam realises Bobby is attached to that flask, he’s going to want to torch that thing and lay Bobby to rest, no matter what. And if Dean isn’t willing to do that and release Bobby, then that would *really* be crazy.

            I have seen people speculate that Ghost!Bobby will somehow kill Dick (which might give at least Dean a reason not to exorcise Bobby). I am really skeptical about that, though, since there’s never been a single bit of evidence to indicate that ghosts can kill Leviathans, any more than ghosts can kill demons or angels.

  24. Cassieo

    In the promo for the next episode…BOTH boys see Bobby in the haunted house. Maybe they are going to use the house as the reason they see Bobby now and not before. Is that what the series has done before…No. but since when has this show be consistent. And why didn’t Bobby give Dean a sign? Again to create tension because that is what everyone wanted to see. They are just trying to drag out the reunion a few weeks longer. And another synopsis says that Bobby tries to help ‘the boys’ get Roman. He is visible to both of them. It isn’t just Dean.

    As for Bobby’s haunting Dean and not Sam, Bobby, in both the series and the books, loves both boys, but Dean has always been his favorite. That has been stated in the show itself. But he is not haunting Dean, he is around Dean because Dean is carrying the flask. If Sam chose to keep a momentum of Bobby, Bobby would be around him too. Bobby meant much more to Dean than Sam, that is also from the show, so having Dean keep a memento fits in with past facts. The fact that SG had Dean keep the flask is just her way of degrading him again, pointing to his drinking. Hopefully that will end with Carver. In fact, I’m hoping he will end all the degradation of all the authoritative characters in the show. Stop calling Bobby, Rufus and John bad too.

    And yes, Sam is coming across as a very cold fish in this whole thing and I’m assuming that is to show more angst in the storyline and once again have the brothers at odds. To silly Sam fans, they are going to think Sam is the rational one. To me he is the cold one, not rational and not a part of this family at all. Like every time they show Sam as selfish, inconsiderate etc. they don’t realize how that makes him look. They think it drums up some kind of sympathy for him but only to a few silly Sam fans. The majority of the viewers are completely turned off by it. That is NOT what you should see from a co-lead in a series. That is very poor planning and character development from the showrunner.

    As for Bobby coming back…whether Gamble error in killing Bobby or bringing him back was the idea all along, Bobby can be restored by any way the show decides to do it. Has there been any precedence set before in the series for this? No…but then the boys have gone in areas that no other hunter will ever go in. How many hunters have died and come back? How many hunters have ever been in heaven and returned? How many hunters have ever gone back in time? None that we know of. We are supposed to think that these ‘special’ things only happen to the brothers because they are ‘special’ people which is why we follow them in the show. Hence we can expect special things to happen around and to them that we have not seen before and can expect a special way Bobby will be returned to human form…if that’s where they are going with this.

    As for ghosts moving on…many theories are out there about ghosts moving on that the writers can draw from. In some instances, ghost have unfinished business that is keeping them earth-bound and it is not always vengeful…in some instances it’s just concern for someone they love. Once that is taken care of, they move on and a reaper may not be involved. Carver in BH has a door that appears when a ghost is ready to move on. The only thing that is consistent is the bright light that everyone sees. The same light Molly saw and she wasn’t a vengeful ghost even after years of being caught in that loop. She was concerned about her husband. Once she saw he was okay, she moved on herself.

    On SPN hunters can ‘force’ the issue if a ghost is vengeful, but we don’t know how many ghosts are NOT vengeful so never draw the interest of a hunter and just move on once their issue is resolved. I am sure that while Bobby is very angry at Roman for killing him, he is equally concerned that his boys don’t end up the same way. And Bobby is a survivor…his stubbornness at staying even with the risks is supposed to be an indication of his love the boys.

    I guess the show’s cannon to this point isn’t an issue for me keeping Bobby from being restored. The writers can come up with new canon to fill the bill. Whether that canon will be believable remains to be seen.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Once more with feeling – it is *not* confirmed in the promo for next week that both brothers see Bobby. Look at it again because these promos can be very deceptive. We have a shot of the brothers looking down and Dean saying, “Bobby?” while Sam looks befuddled. Then we have a different shot, a closeup, of Bobby saying, “You can *see* me?” We never see the three of them in the same shot. Obviously, the promo is cut in such a way as to imply that the brothers both see Bobby, but, for all we know, those two shots could be in completely different scenes. And we also do not have anything one way or the other from Sam indicating that Sam sees Bobby, even if Dean does (or thinks he does). Bobby could be talking to someone else, like the female guest star or another ghost, for all we know. Case in point–the last episode, when it appeared in the end that Dean saw Ghost!Bobby and was talking to him…but it turned out he was talking to the flask and didn’t see Ghost!Bobby at all.

      So, is it a distinct possibility? Sure. Is it confirmed? Definitely not.

      Nor does the synopsis ever say that either of the brothers, let alone both, can see Bobby in 7.20. He can help them without their seeing him. In fact, it hasn’t actually been confirmed that Bobby is the one moving the objects around Dean. The assumption is there, but nothing Bobby has said or done has yet confirmed it. In fact, the premise of the house in 7.19 appears to be that ghosts can be made visible to living humans. Outside of the house, Ghost!Bobby wouldn’t be visible to the brothers, anymore, even if they do see him in there.

      Bobby is definitely haunting Dean and not Sam. At least two times that Sam was there, things moved around Dean that Dean noticed. They could easily have been done in a way to affect Sam, but they didn’t. Ergo, Sam’s not the one being haunted.

      Sam trying for being rational is not automatically a sign that he’s a jerk. Just because they handled the Fauxifer plot badly doesn’t mean that Sam didn’t want to believe Bobby was around. Hence, Sam talking about the Ouija board and the EMF meter. He did try to find out if Bobby was there.

      Ghost mythology for other shows is irrelevant. At this point, SPN has a very well-established ghost mythology. Ghosts move on with a Reaper or they stay behind, attaching themselves to something. Molly was being held back and tortured by another ghost. That was her attachment and his attachment was his bones. The brothers theorised that, once they released her from slavery to the other ghost and she “let go” (having finally realised she was dead), the natural process would kick back into gear and she’d move on.

      But Bobby’s already ditched his Reaper, so he’s in vengeful spirit territory, now. Not a single spirit who has deliberately refused to go with a Reaper has been shown to move on voluntarily. And Tessa never said a thing to Dean that indicated he could move on once he decided his family was okay. In fact, she emphatically stated that ghosts who don’t move on can’t leave once they ditch their Reaper (to the kid in “Death Takes a Holiday”). The Reapers don’t screw around and they don’t like their time being wasted, so if you ditch one (as Bobby did), they’re not too worked up about coming back for you. And if they don’t come back for you, you have no way of going anywhere. In fact, this is inherent in the idea that ghosts are restricted to a specific area around their remains. If they could just “move on”, they wouldn’t be trapped like that. And if Bobby were willing to let go, he’d have done it after he wrote down the numbers on Sam’s hand.

      As for “special things” happening, Bobby is not either Sam or Dean. I’d argue, also, that most of the shifting about has been Dean, with Sam tagging along or being rescued by Dean. So, it’s really Dean who does the shamanic roaming from region to region. But keeping Bobby around as a ghost would be cruel and bringing him back alive would be pointless. Gamble burned that bridge right to the waterline. He has no personal story to return to. It’s over, done.

      The set photos of Bobby in 7.23 are here:

  25. Cassieo

    Where are there pictures of Ghost!Bobby from 7.23? The last photos I saw were of Day wielding a sword. The last BTS photos were from 7.22 at a gas station.

  26. Ginger

    New promo for the old hunter girlfriend episode 7.19 at WFB that pointedly shows Bobby attached to the flask and both Sam and Dean are in the scene (Looks like Sam is completely fix). From the scene in the promo, it doesn’t look like the old girlfriend will be that big of a deal in the episode.

    For what its worth, these writers wrote Route 666, which I thought had wonderful brother interactions, but was a terrible story. Shut Up, Dr. Phil, IMO, was a showcase for the Buffy alum. Slice Girls, I thought, was okay. The director on this one has only done Time for a Wedding.

  27. elena

    Clip for 7.19:

    It was great to see the brothers back to solving their own cases without having Bobby to use as a convenient crutch. I’d hated how these two experienced and highly competent professionals had started to take a back seat to Super Hunter Bobby, almost like they were his apprentices. It’s a big part of the reason I think Bobby’s outstayed his time on the show and needs to move on. But unfortunately, I have to agree with those who suspect he’ll be coming back permanently. I wouldn’t be surprised if the writers end up twisting past canon into a pretzel to explain his return simply because they’re too in love with their Gary Stu character to let him go.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      While those episodes had their charms, I really hated the writing on them. The female characters were especially poor, being written alternately bitchy, stupid, and uptight. Not particularly looking forward to the female hunter in this one.

      I saw that last night. Jeez, is Bobby a whiner! I have no idea why they chose to make him that way in later seasons. He wasn’t like that prior to “Dream a Little Dream of Me” and at least in that one, he had a reason.

      I’m still not wild about this storyline. So far, yet again, instead of actually, oh, I dunno, *resolving* a plotline, they’re just cross-cutting to a new one. This is a classic bad soap-opera tactic. The show needs to knock it off with the bad soap opera writing.

      Also, there’s nothing heart-warming about gaslighting. This is like one of those old films where the guy treats the girl like utter crap, but we’re supposed to believe she should keep trying to love him because it’s sooo haaarrrd for him to lurve. Barf. Dean’s well-rid of Bobby–or he *would* be if Bobby would just bugger off and move on, already.

      Can’t say I’m wild about the idea of Bobby coming back to hold the brothers’ hands, either, or that we’ve still got Bobby talking to both brothers while it’s obvious he’s focused on Dean. If they’re going to tie in Dean’s alcoholism with Bobby’s haunting, the writers need to make that connection more explicit than Dean Show that contradicts the Sam’nDean Tell.

  28. castiel'scat

    The trailer made me think their angle is not Dean is special (Bobby talking to both boys) but in fact Dean is weak. Sam handled Bobby’s death like a man despite fauxifer. Dean is less than normal and drinking more than normal. Stop it sg and company. Sam s…s. thank goodness there is hope for the future. Not sure if one can still remain hopeful this season.
    So 7.19 may simply be the boys learn about Bobby, and Dean is/is not (?) Better.

    Reboots generally do not work. However the J’s want some corpses back. One or two resurrections is easier to stomach than ” its all a dream” or a global mindwipe…
    Speaking of angel, he was gorgeous in early Buffy but way understated. In s2 now. Loved how the scooby gang gelled immediately. Love love love spike. His love for drusilla is so tender.

  29. Caroline C

    I agree with @elena about the redundancy of Super Hunter Bobby, when the brothers have proved more than capable of doing their own research both in the past and currently. This got so bad that even my long suffering boyfriend had taken to yelling at the TV about it – and believe me it takes a lot to get him riled up about anything!

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      What would work best is if they brought back some of the living people from previous episodes (Sheriff Mills, Lee and his daughter, Meg, people from way back like Missouri or Sarah, or even Tamara) and let the dead stay dead.

      @Caroline C
      I hate that they turned Bobby into a Gary Stu. Truth be told, season one John (before he showed up) was a Gary Stu, too. As much as I love to see the brothers be such experienced hunters after seven seasons, there is a huge difference between battle hardened and SuperHunter. It’s hard to relate to the latter and I think Bobby has passed into that territory. He didn’t used to be like that (or, maybe, he just didn’t overstay his welcome each season), but he’s definitely there now.

      1. Ginger

        Honestly, I’d rather see new characters developed, rather than Meg (who I think is getting stale), Sarah and Tamara (neither of which I thought were particularly good actresses, or Krissy (the teenage mutant Superhunter. Sheriff Mills and Lee would be great.

        I say that with the caveat that developing new characters would depend on if the CW only has plans for S8 and then wrapping up the show or whether or not they are considering extending it for a year or two. The 2Js have contracts through S8, as I understand it.

        I just think they can do better than worn out characters like Meg and Bobby, and certainly better than the characters they have brought in this season…*Frank* cough *Garth* cough and gag *Krissy* gag…and I’m expecting teenage prophet boy Kevin to be no better than these.

        And no Crowley mentioned in the synopsis for the finale…*frown*.

        I’m thinking this season is pretty much a wash and have will continue to harbor high hopes for S8.

  30. castiel'scat

    Agreed although am afraid Bobby 2.0 is a given. Missouri was mean to Dean. Mills is a nice example of someone they helped who is now becoming involved in hunting. If they hadn’t killed colonel tight in slash fiction he would have been a great addition.

  31. Sherry

    Finale spoilers TVline

    What to Expect | The episode is titled “Survival of the Fittest,” and it will take truly the best to save mankind. In order to stop the final phase of Dick Roman’s plan, Dean and Sam team with some old and new friends, including Castiel, Meg, Bobby and newcomer Kevin the prophet. As the two sides engage in a mind game to try to outsmart each other, expect plenty of surprise twists and a cliffhanger ending that leaves two fan faves in a very unexpected place.

  32. AFriendofAFriend

    Why do I get the feeling that the finale somehow won’t involve Michael!Dean but SuperGhost!Bobby and to ArchangelPromotedCastiel…

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Normally, I’d suggest new characters, but considering the dodgy nature of some of the more recent new characters, I’m hesitant to do more than suggest ones who have been fan favourites in the past.

      I wasn’t too thrilled with what they did with Hogan, either, especially since I liked his character at the end. Gamble really has a hair trigger with the character deaths–always has. And I’ve never liked it. I think gratuitously killing off characters instead of developing them is just lazy writing.

      Dean looks wiped in the stills.

      I am skeptical that the TV Line “spoilers” are any more than spec off what we have, already. We even had some set photos today of Rachel Miner and the Impala.

      Bobby? Maybe. He’s in the episode. Archangel Castiel? That would be a come-down from last season’s cliffhanger, so probably not.

      Don’t be too sure that the writers have decided not to do DeanMichael. We still have five episodes left and synopses (which have confirmed we will get archangels) up through 7.21. Not a huge amount of info there. Plus, the showrunners have been known to spoiler or even foiler in another direction when fans speculate too close to a big reveal.

      1. Cassieo

        Yes, I’ve noticed that too…even lie a little. But I guess that’s okay. Never used to be for me. But now I don’t really care which way the series goes. I’m pinning all my hopes on s8 and Carver.

        Funny, I never used to do spoilers and still don’t with any other show. I started with SPN becasue I was so tired of being so dissapointed with the episodes. I used to wait with baited brethe for each one, replaying the previous week’s episode or two, over and over and then I would end up *so* disillusioned once the episode aired. I thought if I knew what to expect it would be better or even could decide not to watch at all. Silly me…I thought they were honest about them. LOL

        Now it really doesn’t matter. I watch for JA and if the episode is good, that’s icing on the cake.

  33. Cassieo

    “We even had some set photos today of Rachel Miner and the Impala”

    I’ve looked all over, Paula. May I ask where you found these?

    1. Ginger

      Winchester Family Business has them posted now. Left hand side of the web page.

      Nothing special about the pictures, but bringing Carver on-board and seeing the Impala finally back is the first hope I’ve had in a long time. Maybe Dean will get his mojo back now that Baby’s back.

  34. AFriendofAFriend

    I guess I just have to wait and see. I’ll just hope for a Michael!Dean. Simply because I would LOVE to see Jensen play Michael. 🙂

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