TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/28/12

This entry is part 13 of 26 in the series Spoilers 2012: Part 1

This week, we have spoilers for Once Upon a Time, Doctor Who and Supernatural:

Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina

The promo for the next episode, “The Stable Boy”, is here. So, basically, it seems like the Queen’s evil boils down to something a ten-year-old girl might have done. Okay.

Matt at TVLine had a little tidbit about Rump and his son:

Once Upon a Time | Many of you have asked if and when we will see Rumpelstiltskin’s son again. Well, that moment comes in Episode 19, titled ‘The Return’. As Robert Carlyle told us of the late-April installment, ‘It goes back to the moment he became Rumplestiltskin – and [his son] can’t handle this person his father [has become]. He wants me to give up the power.’ Alas, that is much easier said than done. (Or as Rumpel would say, ‘Things always come with a priiiice.’) ‘He has to be stabbed through the heart to give away that power, so that can never really happen – but something else does,’ Carlyle teases with a (non-maniacal) laugh, adding his own, ‘Dot, dot, dot….’”

Kristin at E!Online revealed that Sebastian Stan, who played the Mad Hatter last Sunday, will be back for two more episodes this season.

Raphael Sbarge (Archie, Jiminiy Cricket) had an interview with Wet Pain. Not a whole lot of spoilers in his interview, really, at all, but there was this interesting tidbit: “Honestly, we know how many episodes they’ve got to finish. So, I’m saying to you, you’re going to see some exciting, and I think, sort of [a] crescendo of Good facing Evil. And we know who’s on what side. And Operation Cobra and all that is essentially sort of taking place. Prepare for an exciting ride.”

I do hope that this means that Good might get in a few wins there at the end!

The biggest spoiler out right now is a set visit where someone saw a scene being filmed between Ginnifer Goodwin’s Mary and Josh Dallas’ David, set in Storybrooke. You can see the pictures here via SpoilerTV. But the spoiler in them is that Mary and David call each other “Charming” and “Snow” before they kiss! You can find the recap of it here. Now, whether this is them being cute and calling each other this as some kind of nickname, or this is real, I don’t know. But it is interesting.

The only thing is that I can’t imagine the show actually allowing them is retaining their memories of their true identities, if only because this show seems determined to drag out this story an interminable amount of time. So, I really don’t know, but, as I was telling a friend of mine who was excited to read these, take with a grain of salt. It could be a dream. It could be real. But I have doubt that the show will actually allow any memory-gaining to stand.

The ratings are out for this week’s episode. The show went up and received a 2.9/8 in the demos (steady from last week) and 8.820 million viewers (up from last week’s 8.69 million viewers).

Doctor Who (Saturday nights, 9pm, BBC America)
By Heather S. Vina

The big news this week is that the official Season 7 trailer is out! Looks good, although not quite as exciting as the one for season 6. I’m not a huge fan of Westerns, so I’m not really excited by that one and Amy looks a little silly. The Doctor looks fun, as usual, and I enjoyed seeing Ben Browder (Farscape, Stargate SG1) making his appearance! Looking forward to his guest shot. I’m more intrigued by the scenes off-world, especially with the Egyptian girl!

SpoilerTV has up the first official photo of the new Companion, played by Jenna Louise Coleman. Pretty generic and you can’t tell much from it. But you really never can with these pictures; they just shoot them in front of the TARDIS.

There’s also an interview up with her on YouTube. She seems nice, so we will see how she works out. No spoilers out, yet, but she seems excited and the interviewer pointed out that she will be the current Companion for the 50th Anniversary, which I had forgotten about. That’s pretty huge, especially if they do succeed in bringing back some of the old Doctors and/or Companions!

As we reported last week, the Official Twitter account for Doctor Who had an interesting comment from Steven Moffat when Jenna Louise Coleman was announced as the Companion last week, regarding the plans for Amy and Rory:

“Amy & Rory will leave in a final encounter with the Weeping Angels in ep 5. Not everyone gets out alive and I mean it this time.”

We’ll see if he really means it or not!

Steven also came out and debunked any rumours about a possible new Doctor Who spinoff and denied that Benedict Cumberbatch (Sherlock) would be making an appearance in the 50th Anniversary special.

Supernatural (Friday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

Not the boatload of spoilers we got last week, but still some nice ones. First up, of course, we have official photos, a CW promo, a Canadian promo, and a clip for 7.18. I’ve been seriously dubious about this episode, but the official photos finally won me over. The combination of Drunk Dean and sharp objects has that effect on me. Dean with a katana? Yes, please! Can I have some more?

It also looks as though Dean will be the primary aggressor with the sharp objects. Who knows? Dean may even get some impromptu alcohol intervention this week, or at least we may get a very worried conversation between a newly-clear-eyed Sam and Garth (who was not exactly unaware of Dean’s brand of crazy during his last appearance). In addition, Julia Rhodes will be guest-starring in the episode. She is listed on IMDB as “Marie McCann” (Take that with the usual IMDB-sized grain of rocksalt) and was a vampire in “Live Free or Twihard”.

Also, the actress who played Sam’s damsel in distress last week was played by Kacey Rohl.

We got some set photos from 7.22, of a gas station in Surrey (Filming of the episode began yesterday). Jared Padalecki was back on set, though there seem to be rumours about that Mark Sheppard and Misha Collins will be back in this episode to give Padalecki an easier schedule. Dean is wearing a leather jacket a lot like Lee Chambers’ in “Adventures in Babysitting” (but it’s not identical, so I guess we don’t need to do any prayer circles for Lee). He’s also fondling what looks like Bobby’s whiskey flask. Hard to say what he’s doing with it, but if it’s still around, I’d say Dean’s drinking will still be a plot point in 7.22, regardless of whether he’s on the wagon or not. No Impala in the shots. Looks as if the brothers are driving the General Lee that week.

A new interview with Jared Padalecki (which he gave after the Bad Boys panel a few weeks back) hinted that Bobby might return in some form, though this seemed more speculation than a real spoiler. Speaking of Bobby, Jim Michaels insisted in a tweet from the 24th that the odd occurrence of the address book that fell off the table on its own was not caused by Bobby’s ghost. Hmmm. Who do you think it could be?

It’s now being reported on IMDB (again with the grain of rocksalt) that the title for 7.23 has changed to “Survival of the Fittest”.

There were some last-minute spoilers last week for 7.17. Some of them upset people. Then the episode came out and some people got really upset. Ah, well. In one interview, Sera Gamble talked about how much fun it was to set an episode in a mental hospital (but not, apparently, enough fun to actually do research about mental hospitals). In another, Bob Singer said that if they have a season eight, it will be less angsty. We shall see.

Finally, the demo for “Out with the Old” dropped to a 0.6/2 and audiences to 1.63 million. I’ve seen a lot of debate about this and the most likely culprits were the basketball game, the premiere of much-anticipated (by everyone but me, anyway) The Hunger Games, and warm weather (also known as ‘Spring’). Though TV by the Numbers BSed a bit about how the drop couldn’t be due to The Hunger Games because the A18-49 demo was slightly higher rather than lower for the night, and the basketball ratings weren’t that high, Supernatural‘s drop did not translate to high ratings for its competitors, either. Fringe dropped 0.2 to a record 0.9 and the Grimm repeat only got a 0.7. Neither show got above three million in audience (Supernatural‘s 1.63 million wasn’t a record low, anyway). ABC’s Primetime: What Would You Do? went up slightly from a 1.5 last week to a 1.6 this week, but its audience was slightly down.

We can’t say for sure what caused the drop, but the prime suspects are more likely to be sports, the weather and a hit movie premiere than fan rejection of the return of Castiel, or even the fact that this episode was rather widely advertised as Samcentric. While this may have caused some drop-off among some online viewers, that is not likely to have been more than a fraction of the audience, let alone the Nielsen audience. Sure, some more people between the ages of 18 and 49 watched on Friday than usual, but that doesn’t mean they were the same people who watch the usual Friday night fare. It’s very possible that the slight increase was due to a large influx of sports fans who normally shun Friday nights, compensating for a large drop in the usual suspects going out on the town and/or to the movies.

It is even possible that the CW put up a much-anticipated episode with a fair bit of promotion against this perfect storm of factors, in hopes of avoiding a huge ratings collapse, and is thanking its lucky stars that Supernatural still got a 0.6 and Nikita didn’t drop back down to a 0.4 (It got a 0.5). We cannot tell one way or the other because we don’t know what the network’s true expectations were or the full lowdown on the audience makeup. Either way, if this is the first time in the season that Supernatural got a 0.6 in the finals (It got one in the overnights about a month ago), it’s still doing okay. It would probably still be okay if it got more 0.6s this spring. Spring is ugly for TV programming and several CW shows are doing a lot worse.

So, speculation: What is dogging Dean’s steps and helping him with his research? Will it show up this week? Does it mean him good or ill? And will it matter when it’s already turning him a little…odd? I mean, does Dean really need to be turned even further from human society and pick up even more supernatural “friends”? And does it connect at all with the Leviathans? This is easily the most intriguing mystery of the season for me.

It appears that Jared Padalecki will still get time off here or there, but not as a big block. It looks as though he got a work week and two weekends off last week, which is not much, but it’s still a lot more than three days. Hard to say how that will affect Sam’s appearances in the latter part of the season (though 7.21 is likely to be pretty Samlite), especially since the brothers are just about down to each other in terms of human allies. It’s possible that 7.17 was intended to be a big hurrah for Sam, to make up for less coverage later in the season. And it could well be we’ll be seeing more of Dean hanging out with a variety of supernatural creatures. He sure doesn’t seem to play well with humans, anymore.

We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm, and Supernatural.

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IFPTV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/28/12

48 Comments on “TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/28/12”

  1. Ginger

    I’ve been leery about this one because Garth, for one, is back, and because Adam Glass wrote it. But, like you, I’ve gotten excited about drunk Dean and sharp objects. Yep, won’t miss that one…and I am curious what the ‘real’ story is going to be.

    Yum, yum, JA is looking good on those 7.22 set pix. Seriously, though, I was glad to see Dean looking at the flask. It looks to me like the drinking or that the mysterious moving objects will be addressed.

    It will be interesting to see what kind of story Sam has now that his problem has been solved (I assume it has). The Sam girls are already crying big foul and no POV (got I get sick of that one).

    Thanks, Paula.

  2. Ginger

    Sorry to continue, but I forgot to mention that I love the leather coat. A leather coat (and I like this one better than the old one) and Dean Winchester = badass hunter.

    What!! Ep. 7.22 and no IMPALA. I’m pissed.

  3. castiel'scat

    Thanks for the info and spec. Whatever criticism can be leveled at tptb for some aspects of supernatural these past seasons, one has to give them kudos for keeping us so in the dark about what is really going on. The last two episodes raised several questions and the ongoing Dean mysteries are intriguing. Yes he appears to be depressed, self medicating with booze etc., and probably slowly going off the rails. A lot of folks took issue with how subdued he seemed in tbai, interpreting it as him not caring enough about Sam or cas. I see him increasingly drawing inside himself at it has been building up all season.

    The invisible friend can’t be a ghost. We haven’t seen any evidence of a temperature drop. I think maybe the ghost hunt in tbai was there to remind us of the classic symptoms of a haunting. So Dean’s secret friend is either himself (interesting idea paula) and he is loosing time or temporarily under someone else’s control (Michael or alternate personality) or he has yet another special friend.

    Sam’s special tale of woe feels like giving the character something to do and is the season’s red Herring. Since the Levi have been so meh after their initial eating spree I am starting to wonder if they are a red Herring too. That there is something bigger and badder under the radar. What exactly did death tell Dean… that it was his responsibility to make things right. Maybe there is more to it than Leviathan. I do not know. They are so dull.

    Its about time they mined the visual style of Japanese horror. Those stringy haired ghostface girls are scary. I don’t mind Garth. The juxtaposition of his style with the Winchester’s is screwball.

    Insomnia doesn’t always lead to psychosis. I was afflicted for months. It gave me severe anxiety, flashes of ocd and I had a nonexistent fuse. I blew up over nothing a lot. Drugs did nothing for the anxiety etc. Eventually that stuff dissipated when I could sleep well again.
    Half an ambien would knock me out but then I would sleep 16 hours and wake IP zombified. So I slept on weekends. Hell on earth.

  4. Sherry

    Episode synopsis for 7.19, “Of Grave Importance”

    AN OLD HUNTER FRIEND RECONNECTS WITH SAM AND DEAN — Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) get a call from Annie Hawkins (guest star Jamie Luner), an old hunter friend, asking for help on a case. When they arrive in town, they find out Annie has disappeared. They trace her last whereabouts to an old abandoned house that is haunted by a powerful ghost. Tim Andrew directed the episode written by Brad Buckner & Eugenie Ross-Leming (#719).

  5. Ginger

    Paula: Alice Jester had an interesting comment to a discussion on Winchester Family Business in response to the dissatisfaction with not enough attention to Sam and his “psychosis” story this season. It’s an interesting theory, and I’d be interested in your comments on it.

    “I’ve had huge issues all season with the focus on character development in general. You know what used to set Supernatural aside from other shows like say a CSI or NCIS? Those shows are procedurals. They focus mainly on story and the character stuff is subtly slipped in between. Supernatural used to be the farthest thing from a procedural and we hung on the mytharc and character issues every week. It’s that baggage that set the tone.

    You know what’s happened since writers like Jeremy Carver and Cathryn Humphris have left? Ones that really got the characters? Yes, they’ve been replaced with writers from now cancelled procedural shows (Adam Glass anyone?). Robert Singer, who’s really the head showrunner now, came from a procedural background as well. Kripke was as far from procedural as you get.

    The problem is, for the last two seasons, Supernatural has taken this “procedural” mentality when building the episodes. I don’t know whose fault that is, the writers, the producers, the editors, the network, but it seems that whatever heart and focus we got on this brotherly relationship has been shortchanged for MOTW action and focusing more on the guys doing their FBI thing. Also, while it looked good on paper, isolating Sam and Dean from the rest of the world has not done this show a service. They aren’t relying on each other, becoming stronger because of their commitment to one another. They’re just going through the motions and coming out the other side. The supporting characters actually used to give depth to their relationship.

    I feel like a Sera Gamble or a Ben Edlund packs so much into their scripts because they don’t trust the other writers to do what they feel should be done every week when it comes to the stories. I do wonder how much was from edited from this episode in terms of sacrificing emotional impact for story. Then again, Eric Kripke used to religiously be in the editing room driving tone. As you can tell, that just doesn’t happen anymore. It’s just all discombobulated. That’s honestly me speculating though. I’m not going off any intel, just my knowledge of the way production used to work.”

    Reading Sherry’s post above, that sure reads like a procedural, doesn’t it?

  6. Paula R. Stiles

    @Ginger
    Eh, while I agree that the pacing is way off, and lacking in decent writers right now, I don’t agree that it’s become more procedural. In fact, I think this season and last season are the least procedural and most serial of the seasons up to this point. Season one was almost completely procedural, as were huge whacks of seasons two and three. Even mytharc episodes like “Home” and “Nightmare” had a strong MOTW element to them.

    Also, the mytharc episodes have hardly been limited to Gamble and Singer. Adam Glass, Dabb and Loflin, Ben Edlund, and even newcomer Robbie Thompson, have written several mytharc episodes. And as for the editing at the script level, yeah, it’s not great, but it hasn’t been great since season five, and Kripke’s been to confirmed to have been in the writers’ room through the end of last season. I agree that somebody was once holding things together better in the past–but I don’t think it was Eric Kripke.

    As for the idea that Sam’s storyline didn’t get enough coverage, it was an unpopular storyline that was done poorly. The solution to such a subplot is to do it better in the first place, not to do more of it badly.

    About the Sam fans…yeah, I saw that one coming weeks ago. Some things you don’t want to bring up because you know there will be screaming once realisation sets in in some quarters. Once it started to become clear that Castiel would heal Sam last week, it also became clear that Sam would be lacking for a plot after that. I think the assumption on both sides was that Sam would somehow take over the Leviathan plot from Dean, but now, the possibility that this may not happen is starting to crop up and people are starting to wonder, “Well, okay, if Sam is now sane and Dean still has the Leviathan plot, what *will* Sam do for the rest of the season?”

    I think that’s a good question. My best guess, since Jared Padalecki really doesn’t have the extra time and energy to put into starting a brand new plot in the last six episodes, is that Sam will back Dean up and even become involved as a sane witness in Dean’s madness storyline. But I don’t think Sam will have his very own storyline again before next season.

    I’ve been saying since season five that a large part of Sam’s problem has been his lack of POV, but honestly, if the best they can do with a Sam POV plot are aimless Fauxifer Follies, I’d rather they didn’t go there. Giving Sam more POV episodes or some of Dean’s greatest hits doesn’t work if the writers refuse to use these methods to take a fresh perspective on Sam and move away from Sammy Stu, and then turn around and yank these storylines away from Dean without even finishing them, only to copy them badly with Sam.

    As for the leather coat, I really liked the old one. And looking back on old episodes, I still miss it. But I also liked the one they gave Lee and this one is similar. So, it’s not a bad replacement at all. Oh, who are we kidding? Jensen Ackles looks hot in leather, period.

    @castiel’scat
    Acute insomnia is different from chronic insomnia. I’ve known a few people who stayed up straight two or three days and it whacked them out. That’s what the show was talking about. Problem is, the show didn’t go with the psychosis angle (which is well-documented) but with the “Insomnia kills you” angle, which is an urban myth, at best.

    I agree that not only Sam’s Hellpain, but even the Leviathans, could be red herrings. I don’t know if they would go flat-out dark with Dean, but it’s a distinct possibility. “Point of No Return” was all about Dean’s decision *not* to say Michael and turned out to be a trial run for Sam saying yes to being Lucifer’s meat. Sam’s breakdown, coming around the same point in the season, may be a similar thing. Also, we didn’t “meet” the real Big Bad (i.e. find out it was probably Castiel) until 6.17/6.18 last season.

    So, yeah, it’s about that time for a showing of cards, though this being a 23-episode season could stretch that timeline a bit.

    I don’t think it’s a ghost, either, or a demon, as that would require the brothers to be OOC stupid about precautions they’ve taken all their lives. But I wouldn’t put it past the writers to ignore that.

    They overdid the Evil Little Girl from Ringu in season one, especially “Bloody Mary”, so I think they wanted to get away from it for a while. It is very creepy, though, and it’s nice to see them have a non-western MOTW actually played by an actor from the appropriate culture, rather than some vapid, white, CW chick.

    @Sherry
    I saw that, yeah. Not at all wowed by that writing team, as I’ve actively disliked all of their entries, which always manage to have some ugly, misogynistic themes (not to thrilled that this week is by Adam Glass, either). Never much liked that actress, either. I was wondering why they’re getting in so many soap actresses of a sudden, but maybe it’s because of all the soaps shutting down and they’re all out there reading for parts? If so, maybe they could get in someone really talented like Maura West or Stacy Haiduk.

    Did any of you see the producer’s preview? Sounds like Garth isn’t long for this world, but it was sweet for Bob Singer to talk about Dean’s “soft spot” for Garth. Awwww. Yeah, Garth is so very dead after this week, I think.

  7. Ginger

    You really think they’re going to kill Garth? I don’t know why, but just watching the producer’s promo and I was already tired of him.

    I actually thought that they were going to give a lot of time to the idiot in the episode, and I noticed him chugging that beer while Dean looked on in surprise. I did notice, though, that Singer said they decided to bring him back ‘one more time,’ so you may be right.

    I think Dean has a soft spot for anyone weak and/or challenged.

    I’m anxious to see how they’re going to introduce the Levi in this episode. At least, I expect that story to be moved forward a little in this episode, since we’re going into the end run.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Ginger
      It’s hard to say, but they do seem to be teasing it. And the pattern is that everyone around the brothers this season, especially anyone connected to Dean, is getting killed off or sent off to Coventry. As for the drinking, maybe Dean’s just surprised that Garth can keep up.

      I snickered at the whole idea that the CW even has regulations about drinking when the underage kids in its other shows (like “Gossip Girl” or “90210″) drink and snort everything they can possibly get their hands on. And the show has booze in almost every episode, anyway. Somebody on LJ suggested creating a shrine to Dean’s liver.

      Dean is downtrodden, himself, so it makes sense that he stands up for others he thinks are outcasts.

      The show has frequently had twists this season in what seemed like otherwise benign MOTWs. And they did show the MOTW being dispatched in the official photos. So, I’m guessing there may well be a lot more to it than the advertised monster. And the episode might turn out to be quite dark.

  8. Ginger

    I’ll be yelling at my TV, “Dean, there is a God,” if he does get killed off. Just the idea of killing off a great character and competent hunter like Rufus, and only letting us have a peek at Lee and Mackey, and having this village idiot be a recurring hunter, is stupid. If he’s around to get killed off, then I’m okay with that. He should have died on his first hunt. Qualls is a good actor; I just don’t like the character.

    Drinking regulations…yeah, the PC police are everywhere. Lord knows we wouldn’t have enough sense to make it through a day without them.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      I was thinking, “Prayer circle for Mackey!” as soon as I saw him last week. That’s about how long I expect characters to last these days on the show, especially if they’re not evil.

  9. Cassieo

    There is a God! Dean is back in leather. Can’t believe thay are bringing out more badass Dean. Most I’ve seen since s3. I just hope they don’t ruin it again.

    The new title for 7.23 is MUCH better than the old one. That one just seem to border on weird juvenile humor.

    The only one, from past contacts, that I can think is helping Dean is Ellen. But I guess it could be someone totally new too. Isn’t there a new prophet in the last 3 episodes? Maybe it’s him. Guess he could be a new friend to the boys.

    I’m done with last week’s episode. You can say enough bad things about it for me. BUT I did like Dean/Cass/Meg trio. If we could keep that for the rest of the season I’d be happy.

    As for the ratings drop…. It *was* listed as Sam-centric and JP even said that in an interview. It has always seemed to me that Sam-centric episodes just don’t do well, so I have to believe at least part of the drop was from that. Also they released so many spoilers this time that some people may have just felt it wasn’t worth watching. If you didn’t like Cass, his return wouldn’t necessarily be a big draw for you. I personally think SG knew if she just did a Sam’s breakdown’ episode, it would get very low ratings, so she tied it with Cass hoping for a better turnout. Just didn’t figure on basketball and HG to also hit that night. Guess the live+7day stats will tell the tale.

    I really hope they don’t kill Garth either, but there is a whole plot to this episode they are not revealing and it has to do with Terry David Mulligan. Here’s a section from a recent preview article about this week’s episode.
    “Interestingly, one actor we know is in the episode is Terry David Mulligan guest starring as Randy Baxter. He tweeted that he gets tasered by Garth and then he lies on floor forever. At one point he was lying on the floor with his head under a desk and the guys were riffling the script above it. One has to wonder if he’s part of the rest of the episode… the part with the twist that we find out about on Friday. Maybe a leviathan!
    While the episode has all the earmarks of a filler, overall it should be fun and light-hearted; just we need after all the recent events. Plus, Garth’s back, and that mean some fun times, never mind the case itself. And so far, at least, this doesn’t look like a case where Dean and Sam can lose another fellow hunter. Which is good, because quite frankly they’ve lost enough.”

    They only release the ‘fluffy’ of a filler episode, not the ‘meat’ so to speak and at this time in the season, ever episode is about the major arc in some way. So yea, I can see Mulligan being a part of Roman’s empire and if Garth tasers him, Garth is in the mix. I will feel so bad if he gets killed!

  10. castiel'scat

    Poor Garth. Dean and I will mourn him alone I guess. (Yes he is not a badass hunter but it takes all types and his origin story is probably interesting. The boys could probably take a page from his book about finding a balance between life and work)

    It doesn’t feel procedural to me either. There is plenty of emotion still. Those same people complain all the time about dean’s endless angst. Sam is the one who has not been developed or grown. Maybe he can finally feel some guilt for poor cas.

    Questions this season:

    What is going on with Dean? Is it as simple as depression and addiction or is he really losing it

    Who/what is his special currently helpful friend?

    Why are the players assuming he is the one to take care of the Leviathan.

    Why all the demons all of a sudden.

    What is Meg’s endgame. I got the impression that she was shadowing cas for some time. Is she attracted to him on some level (not sexual necessarily ) is it simply to kill Crowley.

    What are the Leviathan really doing. Bobby wasn’t that desperate over cancer research.

    Why is cas so discombobulated. (I won’t say anything else)

    How will Dean defeat the Leviathan.

    Thoughts…

  11. Sunny

    You know Garth is by no means my favorite but I don’t/didn’t mind him because he didn’t immediately think Dean couldn’t do his job or was a bad hunter. He was goofy and obviously got on Dean’s last nerve, but he didn’t balk at Dean’s hunting style or automatically question every move he made. Poor thing just happens to be too stupid to live lol.

    I’m also glad that more people are questioning this whole back to S1/2 format. Though yeah I’m not surprised by the hellpain fallout. It’s a little amusing though because a lack of storyline is what Dean fans have been saying for a while now.

    For me 7.19 is in the don’t care pile. Just when the boys say they have no friends suddenly another old friend we’ve never heard of pops up needing help. At this point I just wanna know what’s up with Dean and if Cas will be okay.

  12. Cassieo

    I forgot to ask, when did Singer become the major showrunner? Was an announcement made that SG has stepped down? Would be GREAT…but just too good to be true.

    I have wondered for some time now with him doing all the producers promos and name appearing before Gamble’s in some credits, but I didn’t know any formal decision had been made.

  13. elena

    Thanks, ladies.

    With so few spoilers, it’s hard to do much speculating so kudos to you, Paula, for even trying. Strange how other shows manage to drop enough tidbits to whet the viewers’ appetite while still hiding the major plotlines. Hiding pretty much everything under this stifling blanket of silence feels a lot like laziness to me- like the creative team and the PR people can’t be bothered to put a little thought into the spoilers.

    And on a related topic…..I’ve always defended the writing staff but this season especially just seems as if the imagination well is either uninspired or running dry. There just seems to be a loss of the depth and “mystery” that ran through past seasons. Yes, no one knows what the Leviathans are up to but since that whole storyline has been so distant, I’m not sure anyone really cares. The only question I have is about who’s helping Dean and I suspect the speculation is probably more interesting than the actual answer. Still, I’m glad that at least there finally seems to be a storyline centered around Dean- I wish it had happened in a stronger season but at least it happened.

    I loved those promo pics of Dean wielding that sword. The drinking part should be interesting. I can’t imagine the writers putting that in there if not to somehow draw attention to Dean’s issues. It’s too coincidental to be just be a random plot point, imo.

    I’m also getting the feeling that Garth’s not long for this world. I found him more tolerable in this clip but still, with the show’s death rate, there’s no point in actually liking any of the secondary characters.

    (As for Sam’s instafixed hallucinations, yeah, not a lot of sympathy on my end. I seem to remember being told to suck it up when Dean fans were angry over Dean’s lack of storyline over three entire seasons. Six episodes ain’t so bad in comparison, They should count themselves lucky. )

  14. Paula R. Stiles

    @Cassieo
    As I said, it’s far more likely that The Hunger Games and basketball took a huge bite out of SPN’s ratings than that people who didn’t want to see Castiel, or Sam, tuned out. I think all it really shows is that neither Sam nor Castiel is a huge draw over and above the usual crowd. We have seen some upticks that appear to have derived from character or plot popularity, but they were mainly along the lines of people watching more of early season four because they wanted to know how Dean got back from Hell and what was going on with the angels.

    The idea of a “Get Carter” title is interesting, but I am so over the “Dick” jokes. Move on, show.

    I doubt a prophet is helping Dean at this juncture. Prophets get painful visions of the future. They don’t manipulate objects and they can’t turn invisible. Also, they never said that kid was actually a prophet in the Chuck sense, just a kind of prophet.

    Ahh, now you see. Just because spoilers for an episode have nothing about Dean or Leviathans doesn’t mean the episode can’t be Deancentric or Lev-heavy.

    I don’t think there’s ever been a time when anybody said Singer is now running the show. It’s just a supposition people are making because he’s listed over Gamble and now does the producer’s previews.

    I talked about the Mulligan spoilers the week he tweeted them. I’m skeptical that Leviathans are all that vulnerable to electricity. Bobby would have tried that and the spell Don did on Leveeta appeared to be actual black magic and not just an electrocution spell.

    @castiel’scat
    I think a lot depends on how he plays outside of an episode where they were busy ruining Becky’s character. It is nice to have someone hero worship Dean, but you’d think it might be someone a little more competent. I’ve been disappointed at the show’s treatment of the Winchesters’ interaction with other hunters, who seem entirely too Stupid to Live. They could do an entire season of the brothers being called into every possible MOTW mess by panicked hunters (or clients) who only want the best, and it wouldn’t get old.

    I’m also not wowed by how lackadaisical and incompetent the Leviathans have turned out to be. Really, every other person the brothers encounter should be a Leviathan at this point. They should be constantly paranoid about getting caught by the Levies, and have that fear prove true more often. The only person who even seems to worry about it is Dean (aside from dear, departed Frank, who saw Levies behind every celebrity).

    @Sunny
    It does seem ridiculous, doesn’t it, that old friends continue to pop out of the woodwork. It’s as if the writers want things to be simple, except when they want to complicate them for an episode and then forget all about that the next week. Eh. They could afford to learn something from shows like NCIS, which do serial storylines and procedurals, and get the balance better. Not trying to trash SPN in favour of NCIS, but I do think it’s a bit rich for some of the fans to mock a show like NCIS for something it does better than SPN. NCIS is formulaic in a way that’s growing tired, that’s true, but its writing is also tighter and better-thought-out than SPN’s.

    @elena
    The show does need to work on its spoilerage. Either the promo people spoil the fact that the twist in an episode is lame, or fans get turned off to the episode before it comes out because what little is out there looks boring to the fans. Not good.

    Gamble can act like spoilers are poison all she wants, but you have to promote the freakin’ episode or nobody’s gonna watch it. If a few short promos spoil everything, that’s not the fault of the network’s promo department but of the overly linear writing.

    It’s possible that the twist of the episode involves Dean’s drinking. Let’s just hope the ending for Dean’s drinking isn’t as abrupt as the end of Sam’s Hellpain. Dean’s drinking is far more organic and needs a real payoff.

    The mystery of Dean’s “helper” is easily the most intriguing part of the season. If they pay off big on that one, it could rescue the entire season. Let’s just hope.

  15. castiel'scat

    I have been annoyed with the Leviathan plotline for some time because of the lack of urgency. Now I have doubled down. The Leviathan have been hunting the boys all season and have players in the FBI. At the least the fbilevi could be investigating the weird and strange and he would eventually meet the boys. Yet somehow demons find Sam’s mental hospital shortly after running into Dean. OThis just shows up the Levi incompetence. They strike me as the strong subjugate the weak mindset and otherwise chaotic in their nature. The majority may not follow long-term orders well because they go for immediate gratification.
    As a viewer it is frustrating because Dean should be proactive and Frank really wasn’t panning out. I still don’t understand why they haven’t read the entire singer-campbell library to find a clue. Or ask Crowley for info. That’s why I started to wonder if there is something bigger that’s occupying the creative team because they are not selling Levi as being all that scary or a credible threat for the boys. Bobby got shot after all… a mundane non-supernatural death.
    Hope Dean’s story pans out big time.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Maybe I’m giving Dean too much credit, but between his depression and being dragged down by his friends and family, I’m unsurprised that Dean has been hobbled in his quest to fight the Leviathans. Sam and Bobby’s complaining that Dean wanted to let the world go over the cliff in 7.09 was a real eye-roller, considering neither of them had exactly bestirred himself to go after the Leviathans as if they were a world-ending threat. Sam has even given Dean a hard time about Dean’s “obsession” with taking down Dick. Well, let’s see, if I had foreknowledge that some group of newly introduced creatures were going to do a lamprey/kudzu on my world and my best lead on them was their exceedingly prominent leader, I’d be “obsessed” with him, too! So, on top of being depressed and losing his best friend, Dean has had to deal with both Sam and Bobby telling him he was a whackjob and then complaining that he didn’t care enough about saving the world. And the Bobby dies and Sam acts all Dr. Phil about it.

      What kind of crackfic is that?

      Now, if the Leviathans turn out to be the red herring, I’m okay with that. That’s generally how SPN rolls with its MOTWs when it kills them off at the end of a season (and I don’t think fans want to see Dick leave past the end of the season after he killed Bobby). But yeah, they are pretty underwhelming at this point. They were creepy at the beginning, but they haven’t turned out to be so much.

  16. AFriendofAFriend

    Just wanted to say, that I absolutely love all the comments here. So well put together and I really enjoy all the theories regarding Dean this year. So, I just wanted to throw a random idea about Dean’s invisible helping friend out there.

    I started re-watching season 5 today and while watching “Lucifer Rising” I couldn’t help but think that there are kind of similarities with what happens to Nick before and while Lucifer is vowing him to let him be Lucifer’s vessel and the weird things that are currently happening to Dean in season 7.

    Things that happen to Nick: sudden wind, moving objects, the blood and the baby speaker thing.

    Things that happen to Dean: sudden wind, moving objects, disappearing things, the devil’s trap.

    Now the big difference between both is that while everything that happens to Nick is downright cruel and not helpful at all, the “spirit” or “unknown whatever” of Dean is actually helping Dean.

    And there are more things Nick and Dean have in common. Both experienced horrible losses and are deeply grieving. Both drink (at least Nick says something like “I should stop drinking bfore going to bed” and Dean’s drinking this year is pretty much an open secret). I don’t know if there is anything to my little theory. Most probably not, but I think the similarities are there. So, with Nick it was Lucifer. Maybe it’s Michael for Dean? I highly doubt that, because I simply don’t know how Michael from the cage would be able to form such a connection, but then again, he’s an archangel and Dean was/is his true vessel…

    Also another thought was that maybe it’s Death. I always thought he kind of had – even though the Winchesters has caused him nothing but trouble – a soft spot for Dean. Ellen could be as well or what I might even find the most interesting (as has been said before) if it’s actually Dean doing all of it himself without recognizing it. Thoughts?

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Michael is certainly a possibility. Good catch on the mind games Lucifer plays on poor Nick. There are also the tricks Michael plays on the Winchesters in “The Song Remains the Same”, in which he steals the holy oil and smudges the angel sigils even as they’re being made. He only needs a vessel so that he can be safely visible and speaking to non-vesseled humans who aren’t potential vessels. It seems that angels and even archangels can muck about on earth invisibly as much as they want.

      There are several good possibilities, Bobby being the least interesting of them. But there is a fairly broad range of suspects, so this story could well have a satisfying reveal. And Jensen Ackles has been having a good time playing it quietly off in the corner, as far as I can tell, waiting for it to gear up. My favourite is that Dean is doing it himself, just because of what it would say about him. If it’s Dean, then it shows his brains (giving himself insights like that from Bobby’s library) and unexpected power. If it’s someone else, he could still be smart and special (explaining why he had been targeted), but it would be in a more indirect way.

      1. Ginger

        Actually, I hope it is not Michael unless, like Paula says, Dean remains in control and it’s not a supernatural-on-supernatural thing. Besides that, they made such a mess of it the first time, there is no reason to even believe it wouldn’t be worse this time around.

  17. elena

    I’d love for it to be Michael, if only because I’m absolutely convinced Kripke pulled the rug from under fans’ feet with that last minute Dean to Adam bait and switch. To build up the anticipation of Dean as the Michael Sword over 18 episodes, only to say, “nope, sorry, Dean- you’re actually 100% replaceable” undermined the integrity of the entire storyline, imo. I think that bringing things back full circle to recognize Dean again as the OTV would restore some of that integrity and give some much needed closure for a lot of fans.

    Another theory I’ve come across is that it might be Ash. I could see that- if the guy was smart enough to figure out how to move around matrix Heaven, maybe he also figured out how to bend the
    “ghost” rules on earth. Maybe the entire Roadhouse gang is united in helping Dean this season.

  18. Arafel

    Late to the party, but thanks for the spoilers again, Paula and Heather. Not a big fan of Garth’s(even though I like DJ Qualls-I watched him in Hustle and Flow last night and thought he was terrific in that) so if he goes, I’m okay with that. I’d like to see more competent hunters of the Mackey-type, too, if they’re going to show us other hunters. I DO hope that Dean gets the important kill(s?) tonight with that sword they have him wielding in those pics and that it’s not just a lead-up to another character getting the big kill-but still YES! to those pics of Dean with that sword, no matter what…
    ;-)

  19. Arafel

    Oh, and if they gave us Jensen Ackles as Dean Winchester wearing the Archangel Michael and ridding the world of Dick in the finale, I could and would die happy. That being said, I doubt they’ll go there, though.

  20. Cassieo

    Ohhhh…I SOOOOOO do not want ANY MORE connections to the cage! Lucifer or Michael or even Adam! I am so fed up with the myth arc and how it ended with SS, I just want to forget it ever happened. I think the series and the fans just need to let it go. It was a mistake that can’t be undone.

    Whoever it is, I just hope it’s not a joke on Dean or somewhat to make him look stupid, which is how Gamble usually does things. I really don’t want to get my hopes up that they are actually going to let the *REAL* hero of the series, be the hero this season.

    Remember Sam does not have any arc now that they killed his hellpain train wreck and if that was to be his arc this season, they would have dragged it out for the entire season…like they did last year. And after dragging it out all the way to 17 this year what’s a few more episodes.

    It’s more likely, they cured him so abruptly so he can prove his brother insane, kill Roman and save the world again. The cliffhanger, Dean catatonic in Sam’s mental hospital.

    I can see this episode as the one where Sam starting to rant on Dean about his obsession. In some of the promos already you can see he is opposed to something giving Dean his classic ‘bitch’ face, which really irked me. Dean just saved his butt for the umpteenth time and now he is going to bitch every time Dean tells him to do something? I just don’t see any of this ending well.

  21. Cassieo

    It’s Bobby! Jim Michaels admitted he lied! He’s back! and I’m glad. I know some people don’t like it, but he didn’t go with the reaper, so he’s stuck in the in-between world. Next episode they see him. How great. Now Dean will handle things better.

    The episode was good, but not the rave I thought. Funny the only one not drunk at the end was Dean. Ha. Good too. Swinging that sword drunk is just too scary.

    Garth was good and Mr Fizzles will be on the convention circuit with Garth. Hehehe..

    Nice way to go on a two week hiatus.

  22. elena

    Wow. So disappointed.

    I’m just curious what’s left for Dean’s storyline at this point. The focus of the weird occurences just went from “What’s going on with Dean?: to “Bobby’s back to help from beyond the grave because he’s just so awesome!” And if Bobby’s hanging around, Cas is at least alive, Sam’s better and the Impala makes her reappearance in the finale, what does Dean have to feel all that depressed about? I really doubt we’re getting kamikaze Dean at this point. Maybe Dick will do everyone a favor and just eat himself.

  23. Ginger

    My initial thoughts, although I did not hate the episode…just stupid Garth.

    So burning bones and salted motel rooms don’t work anymore? Although it was unclear to me in the preview whether both Sam and Dean see Bobby, or if it is just Dean. This could be a trick and Dean is actually going nuts. Although, I honestly have less belief in that happening than ever before.

    What was Sam’s big rant in Slice Girl all about then, if he used the talking board after the beer disappeared? Do these writers not know what they have even shown this season?

    Garth was stupid and Mr. Fizzles was stupid. I am sick to death of all the stupid TV kids they use.

    Congrats to sneaking Jim Beaver into Vancouver and keeping the whole thing secret. That was a coup, since they went with the most predictable thing they could possibly do.

    So another sub-plot they have put into the show this late in the season — Will Bobby save the day with the Levi while the Winchesters are again totally unimportant in their own series.

    No follow up on anything with the Levi is a disappointment. Just means the end is going to be rush, rush, rush again.

  24. Lily

    Well I’m disappointed. Not because I dislike Bobby, but I was hoping for more imagination than ghost Bobby. Now there is still room for it to be more than Bobby because he was not able to communicate with Dean, so maybe there is more to what is going on.

    Sam is back to being his jerk self! I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but I was hoping he would have an attitude adjustment or something. I guess Cass didn’t exercise the jerk in him too.

    I was hoping to like this episode but it felt kinda weird. The last scene reminded me of Dean and John for some reason. I thought there was going to be an embrace between Bobby and Dean as there was between Dean and John in Shadow.

    I really don’t think Sam has convinced Dean about the “ghost” but I guess to shut him up he just went along with it.

    Looking forward to your review Paula!

  25. Cassieo

    @elena

    It was never a sure thing that anything was going on with Dean. Ackles, and two producers said the incidents were real, it was just a question of who was doing it.

    Bobby is not corporeal, and they did burn his body so his return may not be permanent. And I can see Dean wanting Roman head for that. But seeing his second father again, talking to him and if necessary getting to say a better good bye would be good.

  26. elena

    @Cassieo: I admit that while Bobby hasn’t been a fav character of mine since S2, I thought his death was well handled and moving. So other than fan servicing, I’m not sure what bringing Bobby back is supposed to accomplish. Dean and Bobby parted on good terms and while it’d be nice for Dean to have a second chance to say goodbye, that doesn’t seem like a big enough reason to keep the character around. Part of adulthood is learning to accept loss of loved ones and move on. This just feels like regressing on what could have been real growth for Dean’s character; instead, we got what feels like a writer cop out and for no discernibly good reason.

    I guess some could argue Cas’ return is similar. But at least I can more easily accept Cas, as an angel, surviving that kind of “death” experience. And in between helping Sam and wanting to be redeemed, Cas still has a considerable storyline. I just don’t see the same for Bobby.

    True, we don’t know how long Bobby is sticking around or if there’s some twist coming.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      Meh. I’m disappointed they revealed it so early and in such a disappointing way. And the way they blasted canon right and left to make it happen, too.

      As for Castiel, he’s an angel and he’s already died once. I didn’t have a problem with the Leviathans bursting out of him and then his walking out, cleansed, downriver. We’ve never had anything clear about the bodies of angels (aside from their being huge) and we do know that angels have great powers of healing over their vessels, as well as other humans. But humans are different.

      1. Ginger

        I just watched it a second time and I put the whole episode right down there with Time for A Wedding.

        The writers took everything away and have now rebuilt it: Team Free Will, expanded to include Sam, Dean, Bobby, Cas, and Meg. A new home base, Rufus’s cabin. The only thing missing is the Impala.

        I’ve decided that is the story for the season: Where in the world is Chevrolet Impala (to be returned on 7.23, I bet). Yeah, Cas or Bobby might gank Dick Roman by the end of the season, but that is just a sub-plot to the tearing down and re-building again.

        Why exactly have I watched this season?

  27. Cassieo

    I don’t think you can ever have enough time to say goodbye to someone as important as Bobby was to Dean. Sure death is a large part of growing, but Dean’s character has grow mountains over Sam’s. Dean has actually suffer a ton of loss and he feels each death way more than he should…that’s the reason they are pulling this ‘drug addicted alcoholic’ Dean on everyone. Pure and pristine Sam will never suffer such obvious and socially stigmatizing flaws as they will give Dean. So if there is one port in the storm for a real hero, I don’t see a harm in it.

    As for why bring him back, and Cass and bring in Meg, I think it is not just for fan appeal as it is to give the series something more to write about…not that their writing is good at all. Also it is very hard to film those long day, so with supporting characters is does give the J2 a bit of a rest-bit. Also, for me, the more air time for Bobby, Cas and Meg, the less for Sam…and I’m sorry, but unless they actually give am a decent personality with some REAL growth, I see no point for him being on the series. Bobby, Cass and Meg add more to the series than he does. Sam just wastes valuable air time.

    Also, it will be much harder for Dean to say goodbye a second time but I really hope they don’t free Bobby’s spirit. For me, his tie with Dean was the last core of the series that was left. It started on the premise of a family sticking together and through 6+ years, that core is gone. The brothers bond was eroded away through s4,5 and 6, and they can never go back to being that close again. At least if I were Dean, I wouldn’t ever give Sam the trust he once had. Sam would have to earn that back, and being the ‘special snowflake’ that will never happen.

    As for cannon, just because bones are burnt doesn’t automatically release the spirit. If any organic material is left the spirit can survive. And I think Bobby’s flask would have LOTS of organics on it. As for salt, I don’t think the boys salt every door way in every building the use…not unless there is an very definite threat. And we don’t know if there is a special reason for Bobby being back. Did the reaper help some way, Crowley, Death? Any and all are possibilities.

    As far as Dean carrying the flask, it wasn’t just for the alcohol. It is a memory of Bobby, just like he carried Cas’s coat around. As you can see, Sam carried nothing because Bobby and Cas have no meaning or value to him. He also seems very upset that they do for Dean. He is just one cold fish.

    For those who don’t like Bobby’s character, remember, they have torn done Bobby’s house set and given Beaver a going away video, which they don’t do unless the character is killed off. Doesn’t say he can’t come back as they have for other ‘dead’ character’s but having a ‘ghost’ friend could be an interesting twist.

    As for the storyline, I say again, there is no reason Dean can’t go just as kamikaze on Roman as before. He has more than enough reason.

    I don’t know how the season will end, and I really don’t think any more of s7 than before. I can still see the whole season ending with the special snowflake saving the day. I’ll just be happy if Dean is not put in some drunk tank or psychic ward. I think that is all Dean-fans can hope for from SG.

    I think the charade was will done, but will have ramifications down the road. People don’t like being tricked or lied too, even though I put it more on the scale of a surprise party than a malicious prank.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Ginger
      Ouch! Though I don’t think Time for a Wedding is my least favourite of the season….

      @Cassieo
      In all honesty, I have gone from loving Bobby up to the end of season four to feeling about the same way about him that you do about Sam. The pacing on his long goodbye has been agonisingly slow. As Chandler once put it, “It was nice while it lasted. So long, amigo. I won’t say goodbye. I said it to you when it meant something. I said it when it sad and lonely and final.” That goodbye for Bobby was at least eight episodes ago. He needs to go away, now.

  28. Lily

    I really thought Death’s Door gave Booby a wonderful tribute. I liked Bobby even though I wanted to Throttle him for some of the demeaning things he has said to Dean over the years. If the show wanted to keep the character, then why bother killing him off? He could have served in some capacity, but not as the all knowing Oz. Dean is one smart cookie and he has demonstrated some pretty interesting skills. He is resourceful and an ingenious hunter who is more than capable of handling a hunt or any thing else for that matter.

    As for Sam, a huge sigh here. Dean will always be loyal, but I think last week’s episode demonstrated a different Dean. I think he was going to do his utmost to help Sam because that’s who he is, but the brothers are growing apart, and this really goes back to season four. Dean, I don’t think, has really recovered from the betrayal, and that’s why Cas’s transgressions hit him so hard. Cass was probably the only one Dean trusted implicitly.

    Sam really was insensitive and a complete jerk in this episode. I just want him to appreciate all the sacrifices his brother has made and just grow up!Is that really so much to ask?!

    Bringing Bobby back the way they did is nothing short of the modus operandi a soap opera uses when they have nowhere else to go. So I prey there is more to this than a ghost Bobby.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      In Sam’s defense, he did look very worried about Dean when he was peeking around the corner in the brewery at him. Sam may be insensitive, but I think he does care. And Dean looked completely bonkers, standing there and talking to thin air. *I* was worried about him and I, as a viewer, saw all the things he claimed to have seen.

      Also, while I have zero confidence that the writers will even remember this, Sam does have the signal example from last week of someone being gaslighted by a dead loved one right onto a psych ward. He has every reason to be scared for Dean, even if he’s clumsy about expressing it. Dean is Sam’s rock, so Sam has not experienced the loss that Dean has (since Dean hasn’t trusted Sam in a long time. Still loves him; doesn’t trust him as far as he can throw his ginormous bulk, though). It makes sense that he’s not going to respond very gracefully to Dean going wobbly on him. And it’s possible that he doesn’t want to entertain the possibility that Bobby is gaslighting Dean, since that would probably make Sam lose respect for a much-beloved father figure. It would almost be better to believe that Dean is becoming unhinged from grief.

  29. Lugilla Brown

    I guess I’m the only one who just loves Garth. Just looking at DJ Qualls sets me into fits of giggles, he’s great at comic relief because he doesn’t do it at the expense making the brothers
    look stupid. The only other character who’s self image doesn’t match the reality is Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory.

    I think Garth is very good for Dean. Garth accepts Dean just the way he is and I think Dean does the same for Garth. It’s kinda refreshing to see the 2 interact without all the hunter macho crap. Dean doesn’t have to carry the weight of the world around Garth and put up a front.He looks after Garth because Garth needs to be saved from his own stupidity not some cosmic destiny.

    Garth may express concern butdoesn’t pass any judgement like Sam’s constant disapproval.

    I do agree that Garth is best used like salt, great in small doses. I loved Bobby and could tolerate Castiel but they became overused until I liked Bobby less and now when Cas makes an apperance it just pisses me off and I won’t watch any episodes with him now.

    Hint! Hint! Writers don’t mess with a good thing with Garth.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      I liked Garth this time round, too. I think he’s an idiot, but I did like him (though that sockpuppet was a really, really bad idea). And it’s sweet that he is worried about Dean. I think there’s a little bit of hero worship going on there. Dean is just so totally out of Garth’s league that it must be like a guy who plays weekend baseball getting to play with Shoeless Joe twice a year.

      But I bet a little bit of him could go a looooonnnng way.

      1. Ginger

        I’m sure that’s how they meant Garth to be, but looking at the path S7 has taken the brothers, Garth didn’t grow on me.

        I came away from the episode thinking that even a village idiot can be as good a hunter as either Winchester, just using his own unique techniques to get the job done.

        Garth has found balance in his life, despite having suffered at least one personal loss. He has proven that you can have a ‘special lady with ready made family’. He loves hunting, obviously has high self-esteem from it, and enjoys small pleasures (hot tubs) along the way, yet the Winchesters haven’t been able to achieve any of that. They are so emotionally damaged from hunting, they obviously should hang it up. Either that, or it doesn’t take much to be a hunter. IMO, the village idiot is a complete contrast to Sam and Dean, who have so little drive left that they’ve given up rock music and rock ring tones and take to jacking Pacer’s to ride around in.

        And I have to tell you, that I did not start watching SPN to see close-ups of a sock puppet. In fact, a grown man carrying an intricately fabricated sock puppet around in his coat pocket creeps my cheese. (Yeah, I know that’s just Adam Glass…who is as big an idiot as Garth, IMO.) Nor did I start watching SPN to see Dean literally and figuratively standing behind Garth on-screen in a scene that was once done so much better (i.e., Dean talking to Lucas in Dead in the Water. We learned so much about Dean’s character in that scene.)

        All that and I don’t find the humor connected to the Garth character appealing. It’s kind of vaudeville stupid and, given the last two season, I’m beginning to feel like the show can deconstruct the brothers up to a point, but at some point, the characters (or show) are destroyed. Introducing a character like Garth gets awfully close to that point for me. And then there’s the whole dedicating entire episodes to Bobby, Cas, Becky and now Garth (and it was Garth that was highlighted here up until Bobby showed up), where the Winchesters stand in the background on-screen just pisses me off.

        The episode entertained me for an hour. I didn’t totally hate it. I actually liked the concern Sam showed for Dean, but I am left with a three-week wait with a very bad taste in my mouth. And now I know I’ll see the idiot back; hopefully not this season, but next season for sure.

  30. Arafel

    I don’t understand why Sam didn’t tell Dean that he’d already used the talking board in The Slice Girls, though. He said that he used it after the disappearing beer, which was in an earlier episode, I believe-so why didn’t he tell him about using it when Dean told him about the paper moving in The Slice Girls if he was so worried about Dean’s mental state? I’m not sure if this was the writers’ intent, but to me we are getting a Sam who is showing a lack of faith in Dean’s hunting ablilities and instincts(yet again)-and I think we’ve been getting this from Sam, on and off, all season long.

    He says he wants to handle things “on his own”, but they are things that he really SHOULD be informing Dean of if the writers really want the brothers’ relationship to be seen as an equal and balanced hunting partnership, also-and yet, like his father before him, he’s not; he’s keeping Dean on the same “need to know” basis that John used on both of them and that Sam, particularly, hated-and do the writers really think that his supposed reasoning of doing it to “spare” Dean should fly after everything they’ve shoved down our throats to the contrary, and about how wrong, wrong, wrong, this was when Dean has done it?! I’m frustrated beyond words with this double standard in the writing of the two characters!

    And when they finally figure out that it IS Bobby’s ghost, does anyone here think that these writers might finally have Sam acknowledge and recognize that he was wrong and that Dean was right and/or acknowledge and recognize that his brother is a damned good hunter and that he should have had more trust and faith in Dean’s hunting abilities and instincts? Or is it more likely that nothing will come of it and nothing will be said at all about it-not a thing-and that Sam’s continued disregard and disrespect of Dean’s abililties will, yet again, just be swept under the carpet. And this again, even though, Sam, for the first time in a long, long time-since the earliest part of the series-does not have the excuse of having something “wrong” with him, at this point.

    We’ll see, I suppose, but I’m not holding my breath on these writers ever having Sam give Dean any more props for his huntings skills than they did in The Mentalists-the Amy fiasco having filled their quota of that for good, I’d bet. And Sam will remain an unlikable character(at least to me) because of it and the bond will remain only a myth in the writers’ minds because of this, IMO also.

    Looking forward to your review, as always, Paula.

  31. Cassieo

    Dean is Sam’s rock and that is what annoys me the most. Why can’t Sam be Dean’s rock too? Dean really has no one and that just isn’t fair. Sam has NEVER experienced the loss that Dean has. Dean felt the death of Ellen, Jo, Rufus and Bobby MUCH more that Sam. You’d think Sam would catch on to that by now.

    Sam may have been genuinely worry about Dean, but is that because he cares about Dean, or himself. I can see Sam worrying about what will happen to him if Dean is gone more than him worrying about Dean’s health. Really Sam is what 30 now…you don’t think he can’t see that Dean’s major problem is him? I just don’t buy it.

    As for Garth, I’ll take comic relief to what we have seen this season any episode I can. I really like DJ Qualls and watched Memphis Beat just to see him. I thought he had a splendid take on Garth, and even thought he is a bumbling hunter, he’s alive and he does get the job done, with no huge size or partner. AND he does have a personal life which always can be done.

    As for the Mr Fizzles, kids do respond to different things and while a Mr Fizzles by Dean would be a joke, by Garth it’s acceptable. Garth does respect Dean and care for him, sometimes I think more than Sam. I guess I think Sam is a village idiot for throwing away the love and trust of someone like Dean for his own selfish reason. He’s one who doesn’t know what he has until it’s gone.

    Looking forward to your review as always Paula.

  32. Crowley_Gal

    Looking again at the pictures of 7.22 I wonder if Dean has to salt and burn the flask in order to send Bobby on to the afterlife.

    That could be the final final final straw for Dean and he could completely snap in 7.23 but I’m not really holding my breath for that to happen.

    It seems like now that Bobby, and Cas are back and Sam is fixed, there is no reason for Dean to be depressed anymore.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      The flask is in the photos from 7.22, in at least the gas station scene and possibly the stairs photo. Also, Jim Beaver has been spotted on set. So, don’t expect any salt-and-burn for Bobby before 7.22.

      The one curious thing about the gang being back together is that Dean seems no happier. If anything, he’s even more depressed because Castiel in a mental hospital and Bobby a ghost he’s not even sure exists, on top of a suddenly-healthy Sam asking all sorts of awkward questions, doesn’t make him very comfortable or feeling supported right now.

  33. Cassieo

    I hope you don’t mind, Paula if I disagree a bit here. I just am confuse about a few things.

    No, I didn’t miss Dean filling up the flask. I saw exactly what TPTB wanted everyone to see. And I’m guessing every hunter, except ‘special snowflake’ has one. And I’m sure TPTB won’t let everyone know that either. I just don’t see the need to constantly tie everything to Dean’s drinking. I don’t like feeding into the shows degradation of Dean. At least he kept something of Bobby’s, which says a lot more about him than Sam who kept nothing. We all know that the season is now NOT going to Dean, so I see no reason why TPTB have to keep dragging him down. They do that, fans shouldn’t. I really wish I would see more Dean-fans irate about them showing him drinking and start to scream about having Sam do it to. But Dean-fans are totally ignored. We’ve see that for 3+ years. All they can do is sit back and watch their character being destroyed or leave which I’m guessing a good chunk have already done.

    Kudos to Jensen for continuing to act great in this series. I can see why he would be downright discouraged about the whole thing….to do so well, to have more popularity that any other actor on the show, and to be treated so poorly. Is it any wonder he’s talking about ‘after’ SPN and how he really isn’t into any more shows. What was his reason…oh yeah…he doesn’t want to leave home. People who are happy with what they do, continue doing it. It just seems to me that the series is leaving a bitter taste in Ackles’ mouth.

    As for Bobby, I really don’t know why you all think Bobby will turn bad. All the vengeful spirits I’ve seen on the show had an axe to grind with someone…that’s what made them vengeful. Bobby isn’t here to kill the one he haunts; he’s here to help him. And Bobby has been Dean’s rock in the show. Dean has no one else. Bobby is the one he’s closest too. And yes, Bobby has been curt with Dean at times. That is the writers trying to make a character fit the episode. That’s their main problem; they try to make the character’s fit the episodes, instead of the episodes fitting the existing characters. It’s called writing yourself into a box.

    And Bobby does help them with info and research. He helps all hunters with info and research at least that is the premise I have always gotten from the show. He helped John too. He’s been at it longer than they have; sharing information is what learning is all about. There is no reason for each hunter to reinvent the wheel. If there is a central place for answers, what is wrong with that? I’ve always thought the hunters should have a convention occasionally to share info. Guess that’s the statistician in me coming out. 

    Garth when to Bobby for help, that’s how Bobby knew about him to send him to Dean. That’s what Bobby does. I thought he served a very useful purpose and was downright ingenious with the phone system and panic room. Maybe I just look for any positives I can see in the series, because there aren’t many anymore.

    I’m not trying to convince anyone that Bobby’s character is good. Everyone has the ones they like; I guess I just haven’t seen a good reason why he is bad. I just think that overall he is good for Dean. I think there is every possibility that Bobby’s ghost will not regain human form. His house set has been torn down and Beaver was given a going away video which usually signifies the character is gone from the series. I just hope his spirit is allowed to continue to pop up once in a while. Others have made return appearances. But who knows what TPTB will do.

    For those that feel the series has been Bobby slanted, your right. That’s what SG does. She likes to build up fondness for a character so she can rip him away and cause angst. She even said so in one of her interviews. That’s how she views drama….angst, death and despair. Kripke does the same thing which is why I’ll never watch another production of his.

    I disagree about Sam. Sam didn’t approach anything with sensitivity. If he wanted to do the right thing, he wouldn’t have hid it from Dean. If I was worried about one of my siblings and I could performed some task to help them out, first, I would have them with me to see for themselves what happened, maybe even clear it with them first. Make sure they are with you at all times. And if for some reason that wasn’t possible, I would tell them first chance I got about the results. You don’t confirm a negative and keep it from them. Geez, if necessary, I’d even agree with my sibling and bond that way for the time being. Gaining their trust is a big step in helping anyone out of a depression. That’s the first step in psychology. Sam is doing what he always does, doubting his brother. That’s exactly what he did with Ruby and all the other times he’s betrayed him. What will he say when they meet Bobby next time? How will he explain that he totally bungled the tests? Maybe the series will have Bobby give Sam an out this time. Really the Fauxifer excuse it getting very old.

    And I don’t understand why Dean seeing Cas made things worse for him. He found out his friend is still alive and Dean obviously still has fond feeling for Cas or he wouldn’t have carried Cas’ coat with him for about a year. That’s plus one. He got to talk to him and saw that Cas was very sympathetic towards him. He even told him Dean he shouldn’t feel bad for not being able to shake off the betrayal because he was only human. Cas is the only one all season that showed any support at all for him. That’s a big plus two. And he cured his brother which for Dean meant a lot. Plus three. So no I don’t agree it made things worse for Dean, it made things livable because all hope isn’t lost.

    If the show is going to give the series’ to Sam, and make no mistake…it will always be Sam, why drag Dean down at the same time. Let him have some measure of respect and at least throw a bone to JA fans. Let Dean recover a bit and dispel some of his feelings of helplessness, loss and guilt. The show will always have Dean playing second fiddle to Sam. If Sam has to save the day, let’s not see a broken down drug addict alcoholic at his side. I really hope they just let the drinking die now. Let Dean be in some part a hero too.

    The really sad thing is the hoax they played on Dean fans. Teasing them all season that Dean was actually going to have a year this time and knowing full well, that Sam was going to end on top again. It’s like they knew if they didn’t tempt the Dean fans, way more would leave so they played with them, giving Dean this arc which looked like it was going to be the major one and then pulling it out from under him again.

    If there is no s8 I won’t be at all upset.

  34. Cassieo

    Ooops forgot something. Have any of you ever seen the movie “Frailty”? It, to me at least, seems to be where kripke got his idea for SPN. In it, it clearly shows that ‘hunters’ can hunt and have a family too. Always wished SPN would take that route. Wouldn’t hurt the boys to have families to come home too. So maybe they will let Garth continue the way they set him up in the episode. Afterall, he doesn’t deal with all the bibads the boys do.

  35. Paula R. Stiles

    @Cassieo
    I think you’re trying to insert fanon into the show, here. The canon of the show explicitly states as far back as “Playthings” that Hunters don’t hunt drunk for long or they die, and it’s Dean who makes that comment. We don’t see him start breaking his rule until “Yellow Fever”. Before that, the only person we see getting plastered on a hunt and violating this rule is Sam, who is regarded at that point as not truly serious about hunting the way Dean is.

    There is also no evidence that Hunters hunt drunk or carry little flasks around while actively on a hunt. In fact, the whole premise of this episode is that Hunters who survive hunting longer than five minutes don’t hunt drunk. Even Bobby, who clearly researched drunk, didn’t hunt drunk. If Hunters hunted drunk, or normally thought it was okay to do, the premise of this episode wouldn’t work.

    As for the season no longer being about Dean, we know nothing of the kind. That’s being overly dramatic. It’s just a fear that some fans have. It’s a justifiable fear based on the past two seasons, but, with five episodes left, it’s still not reality. Last week was as much Deancentric as Garthcentric and the previous week was the first Samcentric episode we’d had in a while. Even in that one, Dean did have his own storyline and did end up saving the day.

    I disagree that Dean’s alcoholism destroys his character. Dean drank just as heavily this week as ever and he was the only one who couldn’t see the monster, while also being the only one who was effective against her. He’s obviously being portrayed as a functional alcoholic on the edge of falling off. His alcoholism causes him a lot of misery, but it no more detracts from his heroism than cocaine does from Sherlock Holmes’ heroism.

    And Dean fans are not totally ignored. Dean gets lots of things to do. The issue is not Dean getting things to do and no, I am not one of those who think he needs to get the kill every week, all by himself, either. That would turn him into as big a Mary Sue as they’ve made Sam at times, and that *would* ruin his character.

    The problem is that the frequently-amazing things Dean does never add up to a coherent mytharc or have a proper resolution. That’s a major writing issue, but it is not the same as Dean having nothing to do or Dean fans being ignored.

    I also think you’re missing the point about ghosts. Yes, all the ghosts who didn’t go quietly into the light that you saw on the show were vengeful – but that wasn’t because they just happened to feel vengeful. It has been established many times as canon, most specifically by Tessa in “In My Time of Dying”, that ghosts who stay behind go insane and *turn* vengeful. Even the ghosts we saw who were benign remained so by becoming obsessively protective about a single person. Which is great, but try to imagine having the father from “Provenance” or “Kate” from “The Mentalists” around constantly as your guardian spirit. Especially if you could sense that person, but not see the spirit (like the mother in “Death Takes a Holiday”). This isn’t a situation that can possibly go well if the writers follow their canon at all. We should expect Bobby to go rabid, given enough time, just as we should expect Dean’s partnership with Meg to go south at some point. It’s the nature of the monsters in question.

    Bobby has been more than curt with Dean and on more than one occasion. He essentially ordered Dean to go back to his abusive relationship with Sam, and blamed him for the demise of it, in “Lucifer Rising”. Then he was the misery gift that kept on giving while confined to a wheelchair. And never mind all the Sam cheerleading while simultaneously demonstrating that he didn’t really give a crap about Sam. Yuck. But the bottom line is that the Bobby we saw at the end of “Party On, Garth” wasn’t the Bobby we once knew. He is a ghost, a literal shadow of himself, and he should *not* act the same way that he did as a human being.

    Bobby actually was at it no longer than the brothers. He just was at it longer as an adult.

    I’m going to skip over lightly about Sam. You don’t like him and don’t want to see him trying to do anything good. Okay. But I don’t have to agree with that in my reviews. Since Sam is not going anywhere, I’d just as soon see him become an effective and likeable character, again.

    As for Dean feeling better after seeing Castiel, where is the evidence? Is Castiel able to help Dean right now? No. Has the fact that Dean now has to ally with his worst enemy over the years to ensure that Castiel is safe made Dean any happier or more secure? No. Does Dean drink any less in this episode? No. Is Dean perceived by others are happier and more stable? Definitely not. In fact, a major point of the episode is that both Garth and Sam think that Dean is teetering on the edge.

    I did see “Frailty” and it’s about a family of psychopaths that turn on each other until only one is left, while also leaving a sky-high body count of *humans* who happened to have done bad things. Not at all my idea of a family that hunts and can stay intact.

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