TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/14/12

This entry is part 11 of 26 in the series Spoilers 2012: Part 1

This week, we have spoilers for Once Upon a Time, Doctor Who and Supernatural:

Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina

ABC has issued the press release for the episode “The Stable Boy”, to air April 1. They also announced that the finale would air on May 13:


“Barbara Hershey Guest Stars as Fairytale Land Regina’s Mother, Cora.

“Alan Dale (Lost) Guest Stars as District Attorney Albert Spencer/King George.

“Richard Schiff (The West Wing) Guest Stars as King Leopold.

“‘The Stable Boy’ – Emma continues her exhaustive search for evidence that will prove Mary Margaret’s innocence in the murder of David’s wife, Kathryn. Meanwhile, in the fairytale land that was and before evil blackened her soul, Regina must choose between betraying her mother, Cora (Barbara Hershey), and marrying for true love, or betrothing royalty and living a regal – but loveless – life; and the event that caused the Evil Queen to loathe Snow White is revealed, on Once Upon a Time, SUNDAY, APRIL 1 (8:00-9:01 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

Once Upon a Time stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Robert Carlyle as Rumpelstiltskin/Mr. Gold, Lana Parrilla as Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David, Eion Bailey as August, Jared Gilmore as Henry Mills, and Raphael Sbarge as Jiminy Cricket/Archie Hopper.

“Guest starring are Anastasia Griffith as Kathryn/Abigail, Meghan Ory as Ruby/Red, Tony Perez as Valet/Father, Giancarlo Esposito as Sidney/The Mirror, Alan Dale as Albert Spencer/King George, Barbara Hershey as Cora, Noah Bean as Daniel/Stable Boy, Richard Schiff as King Leopold, and Bailee Madison as young Snow White.

“‘The Stable Boy’ was written by Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz and directed by Dean White.”

Other than that, not a whole lot in the way of spoilers this week. Most were just regurgitated stuff from last week’s Paley Interviews, which I didn’t bother with. But TVLine did post the video of the Paley event on their site, as well as a breakdown of time/events.

Spoiler TV is reporting that episode 20 will be called “The Stranger”. Hmmm, I wonder whom that episode could be about!

Kristin at E!Online reported on Belle and Rump’s possible real life reunion:

Kit4atw: Any news on Belle and Rumple on OUAT?
“When we caught up with executive producers Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis, our number one question was whether Mr. Gold (Robert Carlyle) will come face-to-face with his Belle (Emilie de Ravin), who is currently in a padded cell, by season’s end? ‘All I can say is Emilie is coming back onto the show,’ Horowitz teases. ‘We’re very excited to have her back.’ Kitsis ominously adds, ‘And God help whoever did that to her!'”

TV Guide’s Mega Buzz had some new info on Prince Charming:

“What’s coming up on Once Upon a Time? – Chris
NATALIE: Mary Margaret won’t be the only one behind bars. Lest we forget, Prince Charming ran away from the kingdom, and even though he helped Abigail reunite with her golden lover, King George won’t be so forgiving. ‘King George takes him, so he’s locked away in fairytale land,’ Josh Dallas teases. ‘He’s going to have to do some fighting to get out.'”

And for the ratings, it seems that the show was hit hard, either by the Daylight Savings time change or by viewers starting to tune out, because the show fell to a 2.9/8 in the demo and 9.29 million viewers. That’s a series low, and down from last week’s 3.4/9 in the demos and 10.67 million viewers. Ouch.

Doctor Who (Saturday nights, 9pm, BBC America)
By Heather S. Vina

Farscape and Stargate SG1‘s Ben Browder is making a guest appearance on Doctor Who! Blastr is reporting that, in this month’s Doctor Who Magazine (which is only out in the UK), they are reporting that he will appear in the third episode of Doctor Who‘s seventh season: “The episode, written by Being Human creator and frequent Who contributor Toby Whithouse (“School Reunion”, “The Vampires of Venice”, “The God Complex”), will be set in the Wild Wild West, with filming to actually take place in Madrid, Spain.”

And the Doctor Who TV site has more details on this episode: “The latest issue of Doctor Who Magazine confirms the earlier rumors that Spain will be masquerading for America’s Wild West in the third episode, written by Toby Whithouse.”

They are also revealing who the monster is for the episode: a “half-human, half-robot Terminator-style beast.”

Also from the magazine, “Adrian Scarborough (Kahler-Jex), Dominic Kemp (Kahler-Mas) and Rob Cavazos (Walter) will appear in episode 3. Episode 2, the first to be shot, is written by Chris Chibnall. Mark Williams (Brian Williams), Rupert Graves and David Bradley all guest star in episode 2, and both episodes in the second block will be written by Steven Moffat.”

And Spoiler TV has up some onset pictures recently taken of the filming in Spain here and here. The Doctor’s on a horse!

The Blastr site also has some pictures up for the on location filming! It looks like there’s a cyborg cowboy!

The Blastr site is also bringing up that old rumour about Sophia Myles (Madame Pompadour in the episode, “The Girl In The Fireplace”) being cast as the next Companion. They list out some compelling evidence leaning towards it being true, but on the other hand, that evidence can also be read other ways. I like the actress fine, but I was kind of hoping for someone more along the lines of Donna Noble: someone a tad bit older, more settled, and less inclined to feel romantically for the Doctor. But we’ll see!

Supernatural (Friday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

Quite a bit of audiovisual spoilage this week, though a lot of it only confirmed what we’ve already heard. We got a new Canadian promo for 7.16 (which implies the episode will be comedic, and indicates the guy in the red jacket in the official photos is the bad guy and/or gets into a fight with Dean), as well as a sneak peak (In which Sam talks about his Fauxifer problem, Dean can’t get Frank on the phone, and I start to wonder if Frank is even real or if Dean is talking to dead air these days).

We also got the official photos for 7.17 (and a short interview with Misha Collins). It looks as though they were holding back until near the end of Hellatus to issue stuff because the previous few weeks have been pretty dead. There was also a spoilery article with some quotes from older interviews, but the only new thing in it, aside from the 7.16 official photos from last week, was discussion of Sam wielding a sword. I’m also not wild about the whole “the last case before Sam’s breakdown” angle of the article, when I would rather hear details about the episode itself, which sounds Deancentric. Especially since Sam’s breakdown in 7.17 is already getting a ton of coverage and 7.16 has been relatively neglected. I’m funny that way.

You can find more 7.16 photos here (The curse boxes from John’s locker are back – wheeee for continuityyyy!).

The official description of 7.18 (which appeared in the comments last week) is also out:

“GARTH IS BACK TO HELP THE WINCHESTERS – Dean (Jensen Ackles) is surprised when he gets a call from Garth (guest star DJ Qualls) asking for the brothers’ help on a case. Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean discover they are battling a Shōjō, a Japanese creature sent to seek revenge on enemies. The worst part about fighting a Shōjō? You can only see it when you’re drunk. Phil Sgriccia directed the episode written by Adam Glass (#718).”

Set photos of Sam and Dean getting on a Greyhound bus, with Dean looking pretty rough, are up. Sam, meanwhile, looks pretty good, so I guess he’s really over his breakdown after 7.17. The photos appear to be from 7.20.

The last two episode titles for the season being reported are “There Will Be Blood” (7.22) and “Get Dick” (7.23), though there’s some controversy over whether the latter title is real. Meanwhile, Guy Norman Bee finally has read the script for 7.22, but won’t say anything about it.

Late edit: There’s a brand new interview with Misha Collins (with nice photo of Collins in a suit and bright-red tie) in the print version of TV Guide. It has similarities to the new Zap2it interview, but is a different one. Since I’m not seeing it anywhere online, I’ll include the transcript here:

Magic Castiel

“After six months’ absence, Misha Collins returns to Supernatural for the first of at least three appearances as fan fave Castiel, the angel-turned-vengeful god-turned-pond scum (courtesy of the Leviathans, the power-hungry creatures he released from Purgatory).  Collins has kept busy with his Web series Divine, a Ringer guest spot and breaking a Guiness record for biggest scavenger hunt, but, he says, ‘It’s great being back on Supernatural.’ Ileane Rudolph

The last time we saw Castiel, he was a mass of black goo. But when we see him again, he looks like the old Cas. What happens?

“You’re trying to get me to tell secrets! Castiel does return – not as a Leviathan host or covered in black goo. But, yes, there is change within him.

Are you an ally of Dean and Sam again?

“Cas does not come back as a foe of the Winchesters. He’s going through yet another transformation and another kind of struggle and journey. Once again, he’ll be put through the wringer.

You guest starred on Ringer recently as a mere mortal. Was it fun to play human for a change?

“It’s nice to smile and be emotive and not be wooden from time to time.

Could you be back next season if Supernatural returns?

“There’s no reason why it couldn’t happen. After all, Castiel has been resurrected from total oblivion about four times. Death on Supernatural is never insurmountable!”

The episode blurb for 3/23 is: “Lucifer drives Sam mad and he ends up in a mental hospital.” The one for 3/30 is: “Dean and Sam help Garth battle a Shojo.”

Finally, last Thursday’s ratings of the “Repo Man” repeat were a 0.3/1 and 830 thousand in audience and Friday’s repeat of “Death’s Door” got a 0.4/1 and 1.160 million.

So, speculation: I’m about ready for Sam’s breakdown to be over and done with after all the spoilers I’ve heard about it. Movin’ on, show; movin’ on. Despite looking forward to seeing Misha Collins again, I’m also weary of the same old spoilers being thrown at us for his return (Maybe we could hear a bit more about what Meg’s up to in 7.17, hmm?). I am a bit curious, though, to see if Sam has his breakdown (pretty likely) and/or Collins shows up (less likely but possible) by the end of 7.16.

I’m hoping 7.16 won’t be all that comedic. While I don’t mind gallows humour, I’d rather it not be a crackficcy episode, as it sounds like an homage to 80s horror series, Friday the 13th: The Series, about an antiques shop that sells cursed objects, and Friday the 13th: The Series was very dark and grim, with little humour in it. Good series, though, so I’m hopeful about the angle. I’m not so sure about seeing an episode of Dean dancing, but if it’s a case of his being cursed with an increase in some preexisting obsession, that could be quite interesting. Sadly, that does increase the likelihood of it being cracky, as the writers get uneasy about showing Dean’s usual obsessiveness and madness outside of satire and minute-long codas by the car, but maybe they worry it would be too dark if they did? Wish they’d try, though.

Some folks are speculating that “There Will Be Blood” is from an AC/DC song that came out in 2007. Pretty sure the inspiration was actually the Oscar winning film of the same name that came out that year, especially since “Get Dick” is obviously a shout-out to Michael Caine’s classic Brit gangster noir film, Get Carter. Both of these films were extremely dark, and involved insanely and brutally obsessed protagonists. We wouldn’t know anyone in the show like that, would we?

I am dubious about Garth returning. As long as they keep him as comic relief, though, and not have him improbably save the day while the brothers bumble, I can live with it. I don’t mind Qualls. I just think the episode they introduced him in wasn’t very good. As for the Shōjō angle, eh, this sounds like a largely-made-up MOTW and fans are already mocking the show for using a Japanese word that can mean a lot of embarrassing things (particularly when you take into account it’s Adam Glass writing it). I’ve seen some people complain about the drunk angle possibly demeaning Dean’s alcoholism, but if they don’t address Dean’s drinking, after leading into it so heavy-handedly with the MOTW, I’ll be a lot more irritated than if they do.

I mean, come on, the way the synopsis reads, it seems almost a given that the ‘accidental’ way they discover what you need to do to see the Shōjō will be because only Dean can see it, due to being half-blotto most of the time, anyway. I’ve been thinking for a while that Dean’s hunting while drinking is a lot like the way the title character drunkenly fights her way through the City of the Dead in Jessica Amanda Salmonson’s fantasy novel, Tomoe Gozen. Of course, I’m sure Salmonson wouldn’t mind getting paid for some of the ideas people in Hollywood like to rip off from her stuff (Yes, Syfy’s Riverworld, I am talking about you), but there you go.

We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, and Supernatural.


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IFPTV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/14/12

32 Comments on “TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/14/12”

  1. elena

    Thanks for the spoiler round up, ladies!

    “I’m also not wild about the whole “the last case before Sam’s breakdown” angle of the article, when I would rather hear details about the episode itself, which sounds Deancentric. Especially since Sam’s breakdown in 7.17 is already getting a ton of coverage and 7.16 has been relatively neglected. I’m funny that way.”

    Sadly, the journalist who wrote that article often lets her Sam/Jared bias color her reporting on the show. IMO, if critics are being paid to do a job, they need to leave their fangirl hats at home. It’s the same problem I had when Mo Ryan had her “Dean sucks and he’s really meeean to Sammy!” meltdown a few months ago. It was like reading a typical post on any Extreme Sam fan discussion board. Not exactly the stuff of professional journalists.

    “I am dubious about Garth returning”

    Yeah, the fact that Glass is writing that episode doesn’t inspire much confidence. To me, he’s the male version of Julie Siege, who just got worse as the show went on. It also seems jarring to schedule what sounds like a full on comedic episode right after the events of 7.17. I know they like to give viewers a break from the angst but there’s lighter fare like “Time After Time” and then there’s “Shut Up, Dr. Phil.” Unfortunately, the episode sounds more similar to the latter.

    “The last two episode titles for the season being reported are “There Will Be Blood” (7.22) and “Get Dick” (7.23)”

    With those two possible 7.22/23 episode titles, I’m still cautiously hopeful the writers might finally follow through with Dean’s arc. Jim Michaels denied the title for 7.23 but I don’t know how reliable he is- he’s been wrong now on at least 2 occasions that i know of. Although “Get Dick” is a terrible title (and would probably get changed anyways), the possible reference to “Get Carter” is intriguing and I could see the producers wanting ot keep that under wraps.

    I’m curious why they’re being so coy about the writers for the penultimate/finale this year. Why all the secrecy? Guy Bee thought that the finale might be a two parter and I’ve read spec that Kripke might be doing one of the episodes (which I kind of doubt) or Sera might be writing both (which I also kind of doubt.) Guess D&L could do 7.22? I’m stumped.

    And finally, a thousand times “yes!” to your wish for Sam’s hallucinations and breakdown to finally be over. I felt suffocated with how Sam’s soul storylines overtook most of last season. Thankfully, despite early indications that we were in for a repeat this season, that didn’t happen. But still, I think it’s time for the show to move on and find some new material for the character other than the usual “poor Sam is the most victimized woobie in the universe.” Give the guy a storyline the audience can actually relate to (and don’t strip Dean of his storyline to do it.)

  2. Ginger

    ” I’m about ready for Sam’s breakdown to be over and done with after all the spoilers I’ve heard about it.”

    Me, too! Pretty please.

    “I’m hoping 7.16 won’t be all that comedic.”

    I DO NOT want to see Dean ballet dancing. Pre-existing obsession, maybe. I don’t even want to speculate on that, because I don’t trust the writers enough to even imagine any interesting obsession that they might come up with.

    I’m still reserved about Cas. If we get something like the Cas of S4, with the friendship being worked out again, that would be okay. If it’s the Cas of S5 and S6, I hope Dean runs over him with the Impala and moves on. What I don’t want is Cas the fix-all.

    And, yes, I’m more interested in why Meg is being brought back. I’m afraid I’m not going to buy Dean just agreeing to work with her, given their history (although I’m pretty sure that’s what will happen).

    Spoilers haven’t been much to rely on. More of LimpSam’s problems and lots of Cas is back. I’m just waiting to see where the story is going. I have this sinking feeling that Dean’s story will be dropped again by some swift work of the pen. I continue to hope not.

  3. Sunny

    I too am ready for Sam’s hellpain stuff to be over and done with. If we never hear about it again after this I would be so happy. I think the writers seriously herp derped themselves when they tried to make it SO bad and SO MUCH WORSE THAN DEAN’S, and wrote themselves into a corner. Honestly I don’t see how they didn’t realize the issues it would cause. They’re doing a show, not a movie where Sam could be in a coma or whatever for most of it or insane for most of it to show how bad it is and yet have it be okay. They know they needed/wanted Jared in every episode since he is a co lead so…I just don’t get it. Who didn’t think ahead ya know? I mean I would have had no problems with Sam coming back and being like Dean levels of messed up and them actually bonding over it but no, it had to be FLAMES IN MY EYES and seizures and hallucinations. So yeah, I’ll be glad when it’s over.

    I don’t wanna see Dean doing ballet either lol. Hopefully it is more whatever your obsession is and hers just happened to be dancing. I think at this point that could be very dangerous for Dean…he’s obsessed about a lot lately but if it’s a more funny episode I doubt they’ll get that deep.

    I’m kinda indifferent about Garth; he didn’t put Dean down in his other episode as so many new hunters to the show seem to do for some strange reason so that didn’t make me totally hate him. He’s goofy (and probably too stupid to live lol) and I do feel bad that Dean has to put up with someone like him but as long as he doesn’t get that ‘you suck as a hunter’ thing I’ll tolerate him.

    I’m actually on the fence about 7.17 but only because I sort of fear what else might be done to Cas, especially with Meg being there. Also if Dean works with her, even to help Sam, it still kinda makes him a hypocrite when just last season he was saying they don’t work with demons…yet they have/do. But I’m excited at the same time because I have missed Castiel and the Dean/Castiel dynamic. Dean has had a rough season so if knowing Castiel is alive gives him a small bit of happy I’m all for it.

  4. Cassieo

    I was so over Sam’s ‘breakdown’ as of season 6! And I can’t help but think they specifically chose this episode for Cass’ return simply because they figured no-one would watch it if all they had was the boring train wreck of Sam’s hell pain again. To me is seems them more Sam is in the hospital, the more air time, Dean, Cas and Meg get…and really THAT is much more interesting.

    And I totally agree with you, it is over and done with after 7.17. No question, and believe it or not, I read a few comment by people who claim if 7.17 is all they do with Sam’s Luci issues, they are dropping the show. My comment…GOOD BYE AND GOOD RIDDANCE! Hope they really mean that!

    As for Garth, I do like the silly character and really they have to start building a supporting cast again since they have killed everyone else off this year, but like you I hope they don’t have the boys drifting around in confusion while Garth saves the day. That is even worst that Sam saving the day. Both totally miss the strong character who should be the ONLY ONE who saves the day.

    And as far as the ‘only a drunk can see the MOTW, I am one of the people who is complaining about the drunk angle demeaning Dean’s alcoholism…they is no ‘possible’ about it. That dumping on Dean needs to end as much and as fast as Sam and his silly hell-pain. TPTB only do it to dump on Dean fans for not liking SG ‘Sam the special snowflake’ concept. If there is one person who should be cut from the SPN roster, it’s her! I just can’t imagine another year of SG dumping on Dean and highlighting Sam. YUCK!

    @ Elena
    “Sadly, the journalist who wrote that article often lets her Sam/Jared bias color her reporting on the show. IMO, if critics are being paid to do a job, they need to leave their fangirl hats at home. It’s the same problem I had when Mo Ryan had her “Dean sucks and he’s really meeean to Sammy!” meltdown a few months ago. It was like reading a typical post on any Extreme Sam fan discussion board. Not exactly the stuff of professional journalists.”

    I have made that exact comment about that journalist on this site before. She is even worse on Twitter and I have responded to her bias on more than one occasion. Yes she is SO much a Sam-fangirl, (like Mo Ryan) but the site won’t stop her because it is the angel the show WANTS. That’s why Mo got to do the Paleyfest panel. If you want to get invited to the set, given exclusive interviews and clips you have to side with SG and we all know her fav don’t we. The whole system for PR is so one-sided it sucks!

  5. Crowley_gal

    Thanks for the round up Paula. I have the same hopes and fears as those expressed by everyone regarding Dean and Cas.

    Add me to the list of those that just want Sam’s worstest ever hell pain over and done with. I suspect they did it because hallucinating Lucifer and not being able to tell reality and fantasy because it made Sam seem like a bigger victim and that it sounded cool.

    But they forgot the story they were trying to tell. Sam in episode 2 needed a full time babysitter. He couldn’t even really be trusted to fill Bobby’s roll as researcher because the second he was left alone he and his hallcination went for a drive. I still question why anyone is even letting Sam near a gun. He’s lucky he hasn’t killed anyone yet.

    As with Frank, that would be a very interesting twist if he wasn’t real. I was watching Plucky Pennywhistle again and the scene at the beginning where Dean is waiting for Franks’s call, the pay phone rings. Unless Dean dialled the number from his cell when Sam wasn’t looking, I’m thinking Frank is real.

    Laura Prudom, a blogger, was on set last week and said that she hopes to have her report up before the new episode and she said that Jensen let something interesting about Dean slip. I’m curious as to what it is.

  6. castiel'scat

    As paula noted in an earlier post, the
    season has been very deaneriffic despite the non stop woe is Sam spoilers. I also thought the titles for 22 and 23 were riffs off of movies. There will be blood and get carter or get Shorty. Carter is more in keeping with this season’s arc. Carter is a revenge story where a gangster exacts a ruthless and unrelenting vengeance against those responsible for his brother’s (substitute Bobby) death. Prior to the bloodletting, the big bads make things difficult for the hero. This rings a lot of bells and they have repeatedly set revenge and a just, bloody retribution as dean’s mission. Carter dies at the end from a hitman tailing him from the get go. I hope that does not apply to our favorite dark hero.

    There will be blood is about a tough focused ruthless dude who happens to drink and commit a couple of murders. Turns on everyone in the end. I think/hope that they just liked the turn of phrase. I want Dean to be justified in his stone cold killing. I also hope it relates to deans special blood, but that is probably too much to ask. Hmmm… perhaps the critical takeaway is the black oil beneath the surface ready to bubble up in the Wisconsin breeding grounds.

    Garth is still learning. At least he knows he’s not worthy… as far as dean goes.

    Its been so long since I saw Friday 13th. Being a night owl used to have its perks… Is it clear Dean is cursed by the shoes since spoilers show him gingerly carrying something else. I think on friday 13 the series the objects had a purpose but the owners responded to the curse individually. So hopefully if the shoes curse him he wouldn’t just dance, but instead his most important desire would be transformed into an all consuming obsession. I am sure ja would make Dean look hilarious dancing but it is time to get serious. Fyi – The cursed objects on Friday 13 the series were created by the devil to take souls and the intentional sacrifice of victims by the owner of the object was an important aspect of each episode.

  7. Paula R. Stiles

    Thanks, guys!

    Just a heads-up to everyone – My TV Guide came yesterday with a new Misha Collins interview that doesn’t appear to be up, anywhere, so I put it in. I also included a link to today’s Zap2it article.

    My main complaint about the Zap2it article about 7.16 is that it goes off task. This person did a set visit during the filming of 7.16. She has info others don’t, spoilery info. I get that she likes one character over the other and that she probably had to sign something that restricted what she could talk about from the set visit. But that still doesn’t mean I like getting warmed-over spoilers about another episode, and a character who doesn’t appear to be prominent in 7.16, when I want to hear about *this* episode, even if I do suspect that Sam’s freakout will begin in 7.16.

    It doesn’t help that I don’t like that subplot, so I’m surely not interested in details like Sam getting insomnia (which he had all through season one and never went crazy) or headaches and such. But even a lot of the stuff about Castiel is getting so repetitive that it’s wearing a rut in my spoilers-lovin’ groove. And I’m looking forward to seeing Castiel back, but jeez….

    I’m not sure what is going on with the season finale. I’m not even sure the season finale has been written, yet. I was wondering if Ben Edlund might be writing 7.22. Didn’t Guy Bee or Jim Michaels say something about that a while back?

    I’d rather not see Kripke come back at all, especially to write the season finale. Two botched season finales in a row are enough to convince me that he’s not up to it, anymore.

    While I’m not wild about the idea of Dean in a tutu, either, I do think that whatever Ackles gets, he will go to town with. I found it especially curious that Dean mentioned watching “Black Swan” twice, because that film is a study in insanity and the sex scene is all of about two minutes long. Why watch the whole thing twice for a single scene? It’s not as though we’ve never seen Dean lie about his intelligence before and we also know he’s been actively hiding the mess inside his own head from Sam. Just makes you wonder.

    Dean and Meg have a very, very twisted relationship. They hate each other, yet they have a whole lot in common. Dean’s dark side really overlaps with Meg’s light side (what there is of a light side for a demon). The main reason why I didn’t care for Meg and Castiel kissing was that it seemed like a big left turn away from the hate/grudging respect thing she had going with Dean as a fellow “apprentice” of Alastair. I got the impression Alastair had a lot of victims but not very many apprentices. That was more interesting to me than the prospect of an angel and a demon getting it on.

    While I agree that the spoilers have been Samcentric, the episodes this season usually turn out Deancentric or at least balanced between the two brothers. Remember when they went on and on about Sam getting together with Amy and there was nary a mention of Dean killing her at the end of that episode? Or how there was all this play-up of Sam shooting Emma and fighting with the clowns, which hid major things going on with Dean in both episodes? I don’t see any indication that will change at this point.

    Yeah, I think they went with what sounded like a “cool” idea and didn’t block it out properly over the course of a season or two (kind of like the idea of having Sam save Dean at the end of season three; that was thankfully wrecked by the Writers Strike). Once they started getting into trouble, they just kept digging themselves deeper and deeper. It’s hard to cut loose from that kind of a plot mess unless you just say, “Screw it” and drop it.

    As far as working with demons, hey, if the Greater Good means working with your enemy, you work with your enemy. I’d rather Dean be practical than one of those “pure” heroes who get people killed because they don’t want to admit they’re bigots. Not that I think Dean is a bigot. His hatred of demons is well-founded in bitter experience. But I don’t think his choosing to put that aside for a temporary alliance that will save the world makes him a hypocrite, either.

    The lack of substantive spoilers about what Sam will actually do aside from being put into a high tower – sorry, mental hospital – like Rapunzel makes me think he won’t have all that much screentime in 7.17, and that most of it will involve Dean working with anyone willing to help to save him. But you never know. We may get a reprise of “The Man Who Knew Too Much”.

    But of course they won’t say that (just as they didn’t say there’d be scarcely any Misha Collins in 7.02), specifically so as not to drive away viewers who might bail, sight unseen, if they heard it was a Samlite episode and the end of that storyline. Assuming, of course, those things are true.

    I did think of the payphone call, but there are a few possible explanations for this: 1. Frank was still alive at the time and really did call, but died later. 2. Frank was a Leviathan (so no need to worry about whether the phone call was real. It was; he wasn’t). 3. Dean simply sat there and waited for the phone to ring on a wrong number, perhaps after observing that people call that number a lot. 4. Dean called the number, himself.

    With this kind of twist, the person is either lying about what’s going on (like how Castiel kept saying he had things to do in Heaven last season and wouldn’t tell Dean what they were) or it’s a “The left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing” situation where the person is doing things without knowing it. A red flag is when weird things happen and the showrunners appear to ignore that inconsistencies are piling up. Maybe it’s bad writing and maybe it’s not. When it becomes a pattern, it leans toward “not” – things like Sam never talking to Frank himself or questioning Dean talking to him all the time; the brothers not using Frank as a hunting resource for anything but the stalled Leviathan hunt; the fact we’ve got Leviathans who can take your name and shape, and Dean never questions he’s talking to Frank; also, doesn’t Frank have a life that doesn’t include putting himself in harm’s way for months on end for 15 thousand bucks? And wasn’t there an episode when Dean got a phone call from a weird number and it turned out to be Frank? Even if you don’t include the stuff about the disappearing beer and such, things don’t add up around Dean this season, and it’s specifically around Dean. The stuff about Frank is only one set of inconsistencies around Dean.

    I heard that about Laura Prudom. She’s come up with some doozies before, so hopefully, she has something big, or at least juicy and new.

    Yeah, those two films are not happy ones. I’m pretty sure “Get Shorty” is a riff on “Get Carter”.

    As far as 7.16, we’ve heard from several sources, including official ones, that touching the shoes is what curses Dean. I’m guessing it’s getting kicked in the face by the young ballerina while trying to remove the shoes that does it. What we don’t know is how the curse will affect him.

    As far as F13:The Series, the premise was that this old antiques dealer made a deal with the Devil to sell cursed antiques. After he reneged and was sent to Hell, his nephew and niece (from different sides of the family) accidentally sold off a bunch of them before an old family friend came in and warned them about the curses. They then spent the rest of the series getting them back.

    The deal with the cursed objects was that each one offered the user some kind of magic. The magic was different for each object (In one case, a cursed coin could give life back even to someone long dead). But the objects could only be powered by human lifeforce. It took at least one human life to accomplish the task the object did (so, in another case, a cradle from the Titanic could heal a terminally ill baby, but only if seven people were murdered by drowning nearby within a specific period). Obviously, the user was corrupted and damned because he/she had to commit murder to use the object.

  8. Cassieo

    “But of course they won’t say that (just as they didn’t say there’d be scarcely any Misha Collins in 7.02), specifically so as not to drive away viewers who might bail, sight unseen, if they heard it was a Samlite episode and the end of that storyline.”

    See this is what irritates me about the series. Why NOT say it’s Samlite and the END, FINALE, LAST EVER WE HEAR ABOUT SAM and Fauxifer? It won’t scare away the silly Sam-girls, BUT will tell a slew of Dean fans to tune in. Really we all know there are more Dean girls than Sam girls, that has been verified repeatedly, so why not let them know when TPTB are actually going to work with the more popular character? I just seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot ratings-wise when they keeping Dean fans in the dark.

  9. castiel'scat

    Paula thanks for the insight and great memory. It’s been 20+ years since I watched Friday 13 series. I had been wondering about a demonic origin for the cursed objects remembering the devilish tie in and the damning outcome of Louis vendredi’s change of heart. But clearly I misremembered the curse mechanism. My favorite episode was the painting that led to the Marquis details Sade and a well equipped torture den.

    The Sam arc is awful. I can’t believe it is because the character is favored. I think they didn’t know what to do with him. I am not sure his arc is revisionist in that it diminishes Dean. Although it does give him a similar backstory, they gave Dean a girlfriend who is hurt by the supernatural and lost to him thereafter, Sam’s backstory. Anyhow dean was functional after hell… not a mopey snarky selfish mess. As far as personality goes i prefer souless sam. This mirroring they have latched onto… not working well without a good plot arc. I really think we are seeing Dean’s moment and hopefully it will involve more than alcoholism, depression and delusion.

    Purgatory was a logical extension of the supernatural universe and I can see castiel loosing his way since he had followed orders for millennia… so the basics for greatness were there. I think Sam’s stupid storyline was a huge factor in meh 6, and less meh 7. Dean is a man of action and uber-responsibility, so if he is not hunting it has to make sense for his character. I think he should have pitched a physical fit, broke stuff, cleaned it up and got back to business. I think he should have gotten reckless and crazy and hyperactive- like his drug and alcohol fueled demon torturing in 6…. and stayed that way through finding a way to stop castiel and then the leviathans. I think he should have beaten the crap out of Frank for being slow and not taken any lip from Bobby or Sam. Then they would rightfully be worried and then I would believe. Dean on stress is super competent even spinning out of control- like the twihard blood craving blood resisting vampire killing Dean.

    I have enjoyed many episodes in 6 & 7 but wonder why the writers are not creating dramatic long-term plots. And why they seem to have forgotten who Sam and Dean are. Sam has had no internal growth. Very scary. We don’t need a Dean EP showing us his guilt. He lives his guilt every episode. Sam, especially after his soulless period and the betraying my bro/demon drinking business (which were decisions he made) should have been Osiris target. Strange for a show based on family bonds to give him a free pass for turning on his. It cannot be that they really thought the amy thing was so important …?

    Sigh. Very happy for tomorrow.

  10. Sunny

    Oh I have no issues with Dean working with Meg or Crowley if it saves the world. He’s done both before to stop Lucifer and Michael from having their epic throwdown and I think it made sense. Well he worked with Crowley then since Meg was all for Luci’s reign. But if I remember correctly Dean had issues with Castiel working with Crowley from 6.20 onwward yet Castiel was basically doing what he thought he had to do to save the world from Raphael’s evil plan. Yes we found out that he could have went to Dean for help after the fact but at the time he’d decided working with Crowley was better than disrupting Dean’s “perfect life”. I just don’t see how it’s really that different; Dean working with a demon vs Castiel working with a demon. Both were done with good intentions aka to save the world. Castiel’s may have paved the road for him to screw things up more but naturally that wasn’t his reason for doing it in the first place. He started out wanting to save everyone, especially Dean. Yet the writers still had Dean blast him for it and to me it didn’t make sense. They made it sound like a double standard whether that was their intention or not.

  11. Paula R. Stiles

    But the show is not only about Dean. I think Dean is a great character, but that doesn’t mean I want the writers to do the same thing to him that they did to Sam in episodes like “Home” and “Nightmare”, either. That’s not the way to give him a great storyline. There are other characters besides Dean on the show that I like and, more importantly, that other people like. It’s a show watched by millions of people, so I automatically assume not everything on it will be to my tastes.

    Therefore, while it annoys me as a spoiler-lovin’ saltgunner who likes Dean that they won’t give us more Dean spoilage, I can see why they wouldn’t want to proactively alienate fans of other characters (in this case, Sam), while giving us even-bigger spoilers about Sam’s condition than they have, already.

    As for Padalecki’s TV Guide interview, I don’t know if they will do one with Ackles. They’ve done one with Collins, so…probably? The show has been dialing back all season on Ackles’ interviews. This seems to have been due to a combination of Ackles having a heavier workload than Padalecki and the showrunners’ desire to keep Dean spoilers to a minimum.

    While I don’t agree with the current spoilers policy, because I think it hurts them not to publicise their main storyline and (arguably) most popular character, I can see that not having Ackles interview much is in line with that policy, since Dean’s arc pretty obviously *is* the mytharc this season and Ackles likes to talk about the show’s storyline whenever he’s interviewed.

    It’s possible that they lost direction with Sam at some point. I think they wanted to take him dark in seasons three and four and then couldn’t figure out how to bring him back because he had become so unlikeable. In all fairness, not all of these things are predictable, even if you carefully block out the plot beforehand.

    As far as Dean’s arc, will the show follow through on it? I don’t know. We’re not at the end of the season, yet. But as a viewer, I do expect that a storyline that has been referenced and built up in every single episode this season will get some kind of resolution and payoff by the end of the season–and I mean a big payoff. That’s the expectation you build up with those kinds of weekly references.

    My problem with letting Castiel off the hook for dealing with Crowley and opening Purgatory is that his actions reaching that point where harmful–and he knew they were harmful–to someone he professed to love more than anyone or anything else in the SPNverse. While I don’t believe he intentionally brought Sam back soulless, he did intentionally cover up what he did, causing much more pain and suffering to both brothers than necessary. He also, by his inaction, forced Dean to work for a demon in a very humiliating way, while Dean was under the misapprehension that the demon was the only person who could get Sam his soul back. Then, after he was exposed, he went back in an apparent reconciliation attempt and used it as a pretext to steal from Dean, tortured and murdered a friend of Bobby’s, broke Sam’s wall in front of Dean, threatened Dean, and humiliated him some more.

    I keep saying “Dean” because I am aware that Castiel is an angel and that angels are singleminded. While he tried to be friendly with Sam and Bobby, I don’t think Castiel ever really cared all that much about them, over and above their being Dean’s brother and friend. So, expecting him to get into moral pretzels over them would, I think, be expecting him to act out of character. His biggest sin was betraying the person he claimed to be all about – Dean. And he did it out of pride that he could do all this by himself, without Dean’s help. And that’s why Dean quite-rightfully “blasted” him.

    Even then, it’s been made clear that Dean was upset by Castiel’s death, mourned for him a great deal, feels guilty about not “saving” him, and still misses him. So, I think the circumstances are very different now from the end of 6.20. It makes sense to me that Dean, at the end of his rope, is going to grab onto anything Castiel-shaped with great joy and relief.

    1. Ginger

      And what you say is exactly why I’m not very excited to see Cas back. It gives the impression of just more handwaving and excusing really bad behavior, which included selective mass murder of humans and Cas’s real brothers and sisters. The handwaving and excusing of behavior is the exact same thing the show has done with Sam for years and the reason that I am no longer invested in Sam’s character.

      I know this may sound harsh; but, you know, I’m really sick of excusing a showrunners favorite character(s) while making Dean a doormat for their action, and the one that got to me most was Dean working for Crowley for months. That was humiliating, and no amount of grumbling from Dean made it anything different. This season may prove to be different, but we don’t know that yet.

      Also, I am not bashing Cas’s character. I can take or leave Cas, but I am done with the angel storyline and the fix-all character, and I’m pretty fixed in that viewpoint. Cas is not just an angel, he was made a Winchester. I hope they’re not going to turn him into that again.

      As far as Padalecki, that doesn’t upset me. God knows they need to give him something to do this season, and I think Ackles is okay with not doing them. They never say anything of import anyway.

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        I don’t think the show’s bashing Castiel will make Dean any less a punching bag. It would be better if the show demonstrated more sympathy toward Dean by not having every walk-on Tom, Dick and Mary blaming Dean for Global Warming than if it stomped on Castiel for things when Sam will always get a free pass (though Bobby could have used a few head slaps before he went, too).

        Thanks for the links! Sadly, two quotes from them indicate these writers are still not exactly turning out Emmy-worthy stuff on a regular basis: “She also admitted that residual effects from Sam’s time with him, regardless of how much time he spends in that psych ward, may never fully dissipate” (This just tells me that the writers won’t let this dead horse go because they truly have no other storylines to give Sam – and that Sera Gamble really shouldn’t give interviews, as well as that Sam’s not likely to be in the psych ward for very long) and “Like Larsson’s protagonist, Day will portray a young woman who’s handy with a computer” (which tells me that the writers don’t bother to read their source material – unless they’re claiming Dick raped this girl repeatedly instead of eating her or turning her into a Leviathan. In which case…ewwww).

  12. Sunny

    Valid points, Paula. I’ll agree to disagree with you on some of them. 🙂

    Read the interview Elena posted, are they REALLY going to drag out the hellpain for the rest of the season? It sounds like it if Gamble is being honest or whatever; why else would Lucifer come back? Her inerviews just rub me the wrong way for some reason.

  13. Cassieo

    I just couldn’t believe my eyes when I read that Gamble will just NOT stop with the hell-pain train wreck! I just can’t believe ANYONE can be that stupid! She has been told since the middle of S6 to drop it, and here we are at the end of S7 and she is promising to continue it indefinitely. I can’t believe they are going to cram more silly Sam down our throats…and all for a few fans who do not even represent the larger portion of the viewers. Is she insane? If not, am I? What am I missing?

    I have been watching TV for over 340 yrs, and can not remember a series that so dumps on the majority of it’s fans. How can she stay in charge?

  14. Ginger

    A few things struck me from SG’s interview. It sounds to me like Sam’s hellpain is not going to end this year, but be carried over as a permanent characteristic of Sam’s going into S8. I have no idea why they would want to do that, since it’s the most boring thing on this planet and it makes Sam look weak…regardless of how many times they strap on their guns and do the job.

    The second thing was that it sounds like Dean’s depression, guilt, angst will continue to be a permanent Dean characteristic, too. No better way to keep him as the show’s punching bag. That pretty much rules out that Dean getting anything good out of being a hunter. I’m counting that as another dropped story.

    If, in fact, both characters keep the two characteristics SG has given them, it just makes me wonder why the idgits keep on hunting This may well be the second year I’ve asked that question.

    Then there is the Levi thing coming to a head by the end of the season. That sounds like the Levi story is not going to conclude this season. I laughed at the “big bad unlike any other, including Lucifer.” That’s another one of those tell instead of show things. Hell, we haven’t even seen a Levi except…what?…four, maybe five times this season, and Dick Roman is not scary…slimy; yes, but not scary.

    With Charlie the girl appearing as a geek person, that probably means we’ve seen the last of Frank. Maybe there will be a phone call where Frank identifies Charlie, leaving Frank to appear in another season.

    And what is it with all these references to movies, instead of rock songs? Another one of SG’s ‘stamps’ to the show? Like Sunny, SG just flat out rubs me wrong.

  15. Paula R. Stiles

    Well, it’s all speculation until Castiel comes back.

    The good thing about the interview is that it does effectively confirm that Dean’s revenge storyline is the mytharc for the season and that Sam’s hellpain plot is intended to distract Dean for an extra episode. Also, if the preview of the second half of the interview is any indication, we may well see Dean go dark this season.

    Are you sure you’re 340? I’ve heard we’re popular with the vamp and cultic crowds. They, too, shall share in the glory of mastication when the Old Ones retur–oh, whoops. TMI.

    In all fairness, Gamble didn’t actually commit to Sam having residual effects. I think she’s just talking about bringing back some Cuckoo’s Nest flashbacks in some future episode that may well not even be in this season. All the better to minimise the reveal of the likelihood that they’re going to magic away Sam’s hellpain–look at how she’s now talking about Sam’s time in a psych ward. Pretty sure that can’t possibly be worse than Hell, especially since both he and Dean have seen the inside of a psych ward, already, and Dean had a massive and largely-unassisted-by-the-MOTW psychotic break that no one noticed, but I’m sure the writers will still do their level best to make Sam act like a victim about it!

    Dean’s insane. He’s always been insane by societal standards. Now he’s insane even by hunter standards. I don’t expect that to go away, or his alcoholism, either. Progress on it? Sure. Times when Dean is happy and relatively okay? Yes. Mental illness doesn’t mean you don’t grow or you can’t be happy. But mental illness at the level Dean has is something that does not just go away. I’d no more expect it to go away than I would expect Gibbs on NCIS to stop mourning his wife and daughter, and I would be irate if the show did that to Dean.

    The problem with keeping Sam’s “insanity” is that it’s a mechanical storyline and one that *should* be temporary. If Sam didn’t suffer from Fauxifer hallucinations, would he be mentally ill? Nope. There is nothing in the storyline that would take away from Sam’s personality if he were healed tomorrow.

    Sam has his issues, but Sam’s big problem is not that he’s crazy; it’s that he needs to grow the hell up. The guy’s pushing thirty and still acting like an angry adolescent. If anything, he’s been deconstructed and infantilised from season four onward out of the growth he had in previous seasons. The guy I want to see more of is the one who found getting his ass kicked by clowns “cathartic” not the guy who is doing a poorly-researched version of “A Beautiful Mind”, which is a poorly-researched version of John Nash’s life.

    As far as Geek Girl and the kid prophet, if the mytharc is Dean’s search for Dick, and to kill Dick, don’t expect either of them to have happy interactions with the Brothers Winchester, or even survive them, because Dean’s kind of the shadow MOTW this season, not the Leviathans.

    I’m guessing Sam will need to have his head screwed on pretty straight, in story terms, for the latter part of the season so that he can act as enough of a brake on Dean’s ruthlessness and brutality that Dean can still come back next season and be considered a hero. I can, for example, totally see Dean forcing Geek Girl into becoming a double agent, which would actually make the title of that episode rather apt.

    As far as villains go, the Leviathans haven’t been exploited nearly enough; it’s true. That said, we were stuck with Lilith for two whole seasons and she was about as scary as a Care Bear. The show’s always been hit-and-miss with its Big Bads.

  16. Marisol

    It was interesting that in one interview this week Gamble said: “Just my personal taste, but I always feel kind of let down by shows and stories where you get all invested in the stakes of things and then they go “never mind.”

    This seems like a pretty strong criticism of SPN’s previous seasons and Dean’s dropped storylines and that she might be aware and sympathetic of the dissatisfaction among fans. So, if this wasn’t just a throw away comment, this season we might actually get a Dean follow through. Of course, then Gamble follows that comment up by saying that all the little weird things happening to Dean are just part of their grieving process. So that kind of negates her previous comment. But still, it makes me more hopeful that Dean won’t have all his power taken away yet again, so that Sam can come in out of nowhere and save the day.

    I’m still waiting for Dean’s secret to be revealed. They promised us he had a big season busting secret, it was the only storyline they really gave him at the beginning of the season. If they still intend to “follow through” with that, then the last few episodes should be crazy with Dean being crazy.

  17. Cassieo

    Here is an article by Laura Purdom regarding some aspects of the remainder of s7.

    The do talk about Dean’s drinking and do lead one to believe that the are headed to another degradation of the Dean character because of all the drinking, though they don’t say how bad they will make the character look.

    They also hint that the leviathans will be in S8 and even that Roman might survive till 8 too.

    Also SG really puts to rest the ‘dream’ silliness about resetting the SPNverse to bring back Cas, Bobby and the others. And while the dream concept is not good, there are other ways to do it, i.e. a slight change in a time line, like the show “Eureka’ did a while back. Or like “My Heart Will Go On’ just this time have the boys stay there.

    Also SG alluded to all the ‘weird’ occurrences as not being real…just adaptations of the boy’s grief…or Dean’s grief since he’s the one they have seeing all this. Hard to explain the devil trap on the ceiling as an illusion, but who knows.

    Anyway, I guess the concept of a dead Frank, Dean saving the world this season with phoenix blood, or any other way, are gone. I can see them totally throwing Dean under a bus again this season as in s5, placing him in a mental ward and having Sam come forth as a god once more. Yep…sure sounds like a Kripke script to me.

  18. castiel'scat

    There’s an interesting piece on wfb about ethics on supernatural, especially as it relates to the two main characters. Only part 1 is up. Dean is focus of part 2.
    Grotesque rules of engagement : the ethics of the hunt. On supernatural 1&2

  19. Paula R. Stiles

    I do think that Gamble was disappointed by some of the way things weren’t resolved after season two. I know that one reason why I got into the show was because I was very impressed with the way they killed off YED and wrapped up a major storyline in the middle of the show, then moving on to another one. I’ve always wished they’d do that whenever they stretch the crap out of these storylines that really should only be a season or two long (The Mentalist and that dodgy Red John storyline, I’m looking right at you!). Unfortunately, Kripke then went on to drop half the storylines the writers came up with and stretch the crap out of the rest.

    That said, Gamble now has to put her money where her mouth is. Regardless of how involved Kripke was or wasn’t last season, it was a mess. She’s the showrunner now and she needs to deliver this season. So far, the reception has been mixed. I’ve enjoyed season seven well enough, but I still think it could have been better.

    I don’t see where you’re getting any of this. The idea that Dick might live to season eight isn’t much of a shocker. They’ve already said there would be a cliffhanger and they’ve hinted for quite a while that the Leviathans would be in season eight. Yeah, well, they also said Godstiel would be in season seven! If Dick gets whacked five minutes into the season eight premiere, he’ll still have been in season eight. They’re not going to spoil his fate, or their season cliffhanger, seven episodes beforehand when they don’t even have a season eight pickup. Come on.

    Besides, they could well be lying. Nobody thought Raphael would go out the way he/she did in the season six finale or that Crowley would get his head handed to him by Castiel.

    Any kind of change in the timeline seems questionable, as that would make it more difficult to explain why they kept the Leviathans.

    What pretty much everyone said in the interview (aside from yet more tired banging away about Sam’s breakdown in 7.17) was that Dean is losing his mind and that this will be a major part of the latter part of the season. How do we know this?

    Because there was a big focus on Dean drinking (and Ackles reiterated that Dean is also using prescription drugs and probably other stuff, which we’ve already seen onscreen).

    Because Gamble never said Frank was still alive, only that Dean will be calling him a lot and trying to lean on him, with no mention of Sam talking to him. They’ve done this before with Dean and his imaginary shrink in “Sam, Interrupted”. And think how scary that headbanging scene in “Repo Man” might actually have been if we *didn’t* know Fauxifer was false.

    Because Dean’s the only one being “haunted”. So, either he’s really being helped (and gaslighted) by some invisible being or he’s *really* going crazy (Personally, I think it’s both). Also, two producers have already said there is something to it and Gamble is talking about “Sam and Dean” when these things are only happening to Dean (as Prudom herself points out in her question. Prudom’s final question to the fans sure has her in the “Dean’s gonna go guano bigtime at the end of the season” camp). So, somebody’s lying, here, not to mention that “It’s all in Dean’s head” doesn’t really explain the big honking plothole of the convenient devil’s trap in “Repo Man”.

    Because, regardless of whether the episode focuses on Dean’s hunt to Save Sam or gives half of it to Sam’s Crazy a la “When the Levee Breaks” and “The Man Who Knew Too Much”, 7.17 looks to end with some magical fix (temporary or otherwise) for Sam. Either that or it ends with Dean *thinking* there’s a magical fix. Sam’s out of the hospital and bopping around hunts in 7.18, 7.19 and 7.20, according to set pics and TV Guide synopses. Since his collapse is total in 7.17, he’s either magically cured by the end of it or Dean’s gone completely insane and is wandering around with an imaginary Sam while the real Sam languishes in the hospital.

    Either way, all of these spoilers indicate that Dean is madder than a duck in a sandbox for the latter part of the season, and that it’s a major part of the plot (since the plot is his hunt for Dick).

    I think Prudom did a good interview, actually. Yes, there was a lot of dodging in it, but she did ask good questions and you can’t force people to give you the information you want.

    I think I know the one you mean, but I didn’t put it in because it didn’t seem to introduce new spoilers. Do you have a link?

  20. Ginger

    Paula: It’s an article that’s on Winchester Family Business written by “Bookdal”. I didn’t find it too informative, but it’s worth a quick read through.

  21. elena

    I like Laura’s interviews because she makes a genuine attempt to be fair to all the characters. And because she’s a also a solid Dean fan, Laura always tries to get in some good Dean questions.

    She tweeted that next week’s article will be the spoiler edition and she’ll have more Dean stuff.

  22. castiel'scat

    It’ an interpretative article not a spoiler/ speculation. I do not know how to link it
    With my smart phone. It was recently published and is still on the homepage as a featured article. Part 2 and 3 forthcoming.

  23. Ginger

    Paula: Please rush your review of tonight’s episode, so maybe I can understand WTF I just watched.

    And, yes, I thought Laura’s questions were really good.

  24. Cassieo

    The article is not on any use for spoilery. It isn’t even a speculation article, it’s just to take up hiatus time really. That’s what the site does during long no episode times.

    You are very right about Laura. She is a very big JA fan BUT she stays very professional about her work. That is why I like reading her articles. She so wanted JA to get the Lone Ranger part in the movie opposite Depp. She is very nice.

    The article can be interpreted a number of ways. That is correct. But we also have a long history of how SPN works and how SG mind set goes. And as for Dean’s current state, they said he was grieving for the loss of Bobby and was trying to believe he was still helping him from beyond because in their world, that is a very natural occurrence. They said he was trying to numb the effect with his drinking which is already a degradation of the character. That is not insanity.

    Nor is it the Dean people fell in love with. THAT Dean is much stronger. But the series has been trying to kill that concept since s3. The really dumped on the Deanfans end of s5 and even thought they caught hell for it, they are going to do it all over again. Why, because 1, they don’t have the imagination or intelligence to write Dean they way they should. Secondly, if Dean is to come out the hero, Sam can’t and we all KNOW SG will have no part of that. So yea..I think I smell a Kripke script in the making even if he doesn’t write it himself. Like you said, Sam will magically be healed just in time to save Dean from killing himself with drugs and alcohol.

    IF all they would do is FINALLY have Dean believe the words he told Scott tonight, and heal himself, that is acceptable. That and DROP the degrading of the character, because that really is as far as they need to take it. BUT one thing this series does is go to excess…more from lack of imagination than anything, but still they just never know when to stop.

    Good example is Bobby. Really if the idea was to isolate Dean from everything, all they needed to do was keep Bobby in a coma till next season. Killing off a well loved character who was on the show for 6 years was just going to far. Ditto for Cas.

    As for big honking plot holes, the series is filled with them. That is one of the biggest problems with the series.

    As for the Lev…again, a lack of imaginations had caused them to drag out silly plots like Sam’s hell-pain, simply because they can’t work outside the box. So an arc that was supposed to end after one year, is now being suggested to go into s8. And we all know, as do TPTB, that they are going to be renewed.

    As for Laura, last question to fans, what better way to get comments for your article and bring people to your site than to suggest anything bad about Dean.

    I really hope her next article does not continue to insinuate they are going to dump on Dean… I and many others, really hoped for a decent Dean this season, and from what I’m reading, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

    Look forward to your review of this episode tonight.

  25. Crowley_gal

    I really wish I had your faith in the writers Paula, that Dean’s story was actually going to go somewhere but with recent interviews and Dean’s moving on speech and Sera saying that stuff was all the grieving process, I don’t have much hope.

    I wonder if it was supposed to be Bobby but JB didn’t wait around for a call back so they just dropped it.

    When questioned about the devil’s trap. I just got the impression that the response was simply another version of Kripke’s explanation that Dean’s eyes bleed for a reason. I felt like it was a plot hole the writers missed and then just said, “yeah, we’ll explain it someday to cover themselves.

    The fact that once again Jared and Misha can both talk about exactly what is coming up for their characters, and Sera going on about how we will see lots more Lucifer, and all Jensen can say is what he hopes and would like see happen doensn’t exactly fill me with expectation that Dean will get to do more than be the wind beneath Sams’ wings.

    I’m looking forward to your review of this episode.

  26. castiel'scat

    I thought the wfb was interesting because I have struggled to understand Sam’s characterization. The article is an honest attempt to understand the character using both literary and ethical frameworks. I feel Sam is the classic tragic hero (by way of sophocles) so I felt the author’s discussion of Sam needing to keep to the middle way was apropos and well reasoned. I am interested in reading her take on Dean as the soldier warrior. As far as filler goes it I found it worth a read. Yes it is not spoiler/speculation; however there has been a lot of talk here about how Sam is written. So I thought a heads up about a different perspective would be helpful.

    I am on pain meds… my reaction to last night’s episode was wtf… why didn’t they kill that Leviathan. The cure cancer business reminded me of the V reboot (a lull the humans to complacency tale until we can breed) and that twilight zone episode – how to serve mankind (where the aliens were helpful all the while planning to eat them) Frank is dead now I reckon. Glad Jensen did not dance. Spoilers made much to do about him being cursed which went no where. I tend to agree with paula. They are hiding something (they hid the Levi this EP) and whatever they are hiding includes Dean.

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