TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/15/12

This entry is part 7 of 26 in the series Spoilers 2012: Part 1

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This week, we have spoilers for Once Upon a Time, Doctor Who and Supernatural:

Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina

ABC has issued the press release for the episode “Dreamy”:

“MARY MARGARET TEAMS WITH LEROY TO HELP THE STORYBROOKE NUNS SELL CANDLES DURING THE TOWN FESTIVAL, BUT FEELS THAT HE HAS OFFERED MORE THEN HE CAN DELIVER, AND GRUMPY FALLS IN LOVE WITH A BEAUTIFUL FAIRY, ON ABC’S ONCE UPON A TIME:

“Amy Acker (Angel) Guest Stars as Astrid/Nova. Emilie de Ravin (Lost) Guest Stars as Belle.

“‘Dreamy’ – Unlikely allies Mary Margaret and Leroy team together for a good cause to help the Storybrooke nuns sell their candles during the town’s Miner’s Day festival. But Leroy makes a promise to a nun, Astrid, that he may not be able to keep; and Emma looks into the mysterious disappearance of David’s wife, Kathryn. Meanwhile, in the fairytale land that was, Grumpy finds forbidden love with beautiful but clumsy fairy Nova, on Once Upon a Time, SUNDAY, MARCH 4 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

Once Upon a Time stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Robert Carlyle as Rumpelstiltskin/Mr. Gold, Lana Parrilla as Evil Queen/Regina, Jared Gilmore as Henry Mills, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David, and Raphael Sbarge as Jiminy Cricket/Archie Hopper.

“Guest starring are Lee Arenberg as Leroy/Grumpy/Dreamy, Meghan Ory as Ruby/Red Riding Hood, Giancarlo Esposito as Sidney/Magic Mirror, Keegan Connor Tracy as Mother Superior/Blue Fairy, Amy Acker as Astrid/Nova, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Beverley Elliott as Granny, Geoff Gustafson as Stealthy, David-Paul Grove as Doc, Gabe Khouth as Mr. Clark/Sneezy, Faustino Di Bauda as Sleepy, Jeffrey Kaiser as Dopey, Michael Coleman as Happy, Mig Macario as Bashful, Ken Kramer as Bossy, Richard Ian Cox as Watchy, Michael Rinaldi as Helper Dwarf, Paul Chevreau as Skinny Man and Elizabeth McCarthy as Rotund Wife.

“‘Dreamy’ was written by Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz and directed by David Solomon.”

Interesting. I guess we will be meeting all of the Dwarves by name in this one! And I like that Mary Margaret is teaming up with Leroy, considering what they showed us of Snow White and Grumpy. Kind of strange that the fairies seem to be nuns in this world, though.

There are some set photos of Eion Bailey (the Stranger), here. I wonder if they plan to make him a regular?

A young actress by the name of ‘Bailee Madison’ has been cast on the show, as she announced on her twitter. I get the feeling that she will be playing a young Snow White. You can see a list of her appearances on her IMDB record.

The promo for next week’s Prince Charming-centred “Whatever Happened to Frederick” is up on YouTube. Colour me more interested in the Prince Charming story with the Siren than in the melodramatic Mary Margaret/David/Kathryn triangle. And look, more smirking Lana Parillo as Regina! I swear, I don’t think she has any look other than that!

Up against the powerhouse that was the Grammys the other night, the show lost some ratings points from its previous new episode. The ratings show a 3.0 in the demos (down from 3.5) and 8.65 million viewers (The previous new episode was 10.78).

Don’t forget – the show will be preempted on February 26 for the Oscars!

Doctor Who (Saturday nights, 9pm, BBC America)
By Heather S. Vina

Matt Smith did an interview with The Guardian on his theater aspirations and Doctor Who. He’s back to filming on February 20th. So soon! But, alas, he was very determined not to give out spoilers. The only thing he really did mention is that he’s seen at least the first four scripts and that he just found out that the show has gotten a very “exciting” guest star. He said that “we” will know him or her, but alas, I don’t know if that’s the English viewing public “we” or the general public “we”. Considering he was talking to the British press, he’s probably talking about a British celebrity. And that’s a very wide (and not completely familiar to me) pool!

Alex Kingston suggested to Digital Spy that we could possibly see River Song again, despite the fact that her parents are leaving the show. “You may see her again. Who knows? … Let’s just say, Upstairs Downstairs and Doctor Who don’t film at the same time.”

Supernatural (Friday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

So far, we’ve got a CW promo, official photos and a sneak peek for 7.15 this past week. No doubt, a CHCH promo and producer’s cut will follow. And the CHCH promo for 7.14 did come out late last week.

The episode 7.19, “Of Grave Importance”, allegedly features a woman in her late 30s named “Annie” who is an “old flame” of both brothers. Just a note – the title implies a ghost MOTW and “Annie” happens to be the name of the ghost character in Being Human. As for the old flame/love triangle thing, it’s far too early to tell if that’s what’s going on.

The CW put out Valentine’s Day posters for its various male characters, including one each for Jared Padalecki, Jensen Ackles and Misha Collins. And you guys thought the network had forgotten all about Collins. Oh, ye of little faith.

Episode titles for 7.20 and 7.21 are now “The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo” and “In Case of Emergency”. And yes, the first one is utterly stupid. The second is…uninformative. When does an episode not involve an emergency?

It also appears that Ben Blacker won’t be writing any more episodes for the show after “The Mentalists”.

Director Guy Norman Bee has said he will be in town on March 15 to direct 7.22. Keep in mind that the director usually arrives in town a week or two ahead of time to scout locations.

There are photos out of D.J. Qualls on set from February 10. This means two things – yes, Garth really is coming back in the episode with his name on it and they were filming 7.18 last week.

The second part of the video interview with Padalecki and Ackles came out last Friday. Padalecki teases that Sam will go really nuts and possibly be in a straitjacket.

Finally, ratings were level with last week’s, with a 0.8/2 and 1.88 million viewers. This had the show tied for second in the demo with The Secret Circle and 60 thousand viewers ahead of it.

So, speculation: We’re starting to get in some fragments of what is going on with Dean. We’ve had a lot about Sam, at least as far as 7.17. While it’s been pretty spoilery, it’s also been rather monotone, along the lines of: “Hey, Sam’s gonna go crazy. By the way, Sam’s gonna go crazy. Oh, and did we mention, Sam’s gonna go crazy? Is that your kink, ’cause if it is, have we got some Crazy Sam for you.”

And yet, if you believe that one spoiler about 7.19, it seems Sam’s crazy could last no more than an episode or two. Well. Alrighty-then.

Just a note: Padalecki has been teasing a lot this season about Sam in ways that make it seem as though some episodes would be more Samcentric than they turned out to be. So, don’t automatically expect there to be tons of Sam going crazy in the end, especially since there is only so much they can do with that.

More intriguing (and less noted) are Jensen Ackles’ comments toward the end of the interview video segment (which are, incidentally, cut off, perhaps to be aired this Friday), in which he says that Castiel is not really Castiel because he does not remember being Castiel. It tickles me that Ackles uses the distinctly British term, “gobsmacked”, for Dean’s reaction to seeing Castiel alive. He says that losing Castiel and then Bobby has taken away a lot of Dean’s motivation to fight and even live. Ackles talks about how Dean has only “part” of Sam left as a support. Were Dean to lose even that part of Sam, “it would be the end of Dean” and Dean might end up “very self-destructive”, even going “kamikaze for Dick Roman.” When asked about this uncertainly conditional/subjunctive statement, show producer Jim Michaels hedged, “Wouldn’t that require Jensen to be on a suicide mission? I certainly don’t want that!”

Now this is not necessarily a spoiler. Ackles never said it would happen. He just said that if one thing happened (Dean lost Sam) another thing certainly would (Dean would go after Dick). This statement also comes right after talking about Castiel, which implies that Castiel’s return wouldn’t change this cause-and-effect.

However, what people are using to say it’s definitely not a spoiler (an interview from last September, in which executive producer Robert Singer said, “In the first 13 episodes, he will carry a rockier journey of how he feels emotionally and the things he has to deal with than any other season. He is on a real roller coaster”) has been misquoted. Singer doesn’t say that Dean only has a 13-episode arc. He just says that Dean will have a journey during the first 13 episodes that will be very hard. We now know that this journey has been resolving into a grief-stricken determination to roast Dick Roman’s head on a spit, due to losses incurred during those episodes. In that context, Ackles’ statements do sound pretty spoilery, as our first real hint of part two in the Let’s Beat on Dean plotline this season. After all, we do know that Sam will lose his mind enough to end up institutionalised, which would mean that Dean had “lost” Sam in what little way he has him left. Hence, the spoilers we’re getting about Sam lean heavily toward the conditions in Ackles’ statement being fulfilled at some point. So, make of that what you will.

For once, it’s the CW promo for 7.15 that has excited the most controversy, with images of Sam being “invaded” by Fauxifer (“You let me back in!”); a demon’s host who actually likes being possessed, Dean being brought past a curtain at gunpoint; the demon being tortured by Dean with holy water on Ruby’s knife while Sam tries to reassure the host (That may indicate the flashbacks are to season four, since the brothers didn’t have Ruby’s knife in season three and Dean didn’t turn torturer until after his stint in Hell); Dean being stabbed in the back of the neck by the host with what looks like a blood-filled syringe, while Dean leans over someone who also looks like the host tied to a chair; and Sam sitting on a bed listening to Lucifer, while an unconscious (drugged?) Dean lies face down on a bed in the foreground. It brings up all sorts of possibilities: What kind of host would want to be possessed? A psychopathic serial killer, maybe? Does the host actually drug Dean (and why) or does Sam wig out and do it during a psychotic episode? What’s in the syringe? Why did the demon need the body parts from the women he killed? Who let the demon come back up to earth after the brothers forced him to squeal and sent him to Hell?

While it’s early to bring it up for this upcoming episode, I’m finding myself getting a bit impatient with Sam constantly bugging Dean about doing MOTW hunts in the 7.15 clip. For one thing, yes, the Leviathans are the most important game in town, so dismissing them, even for a time-sensitive botched hunt from years ago, seems very short-sighted. For another, 7.15 appears to be set partly in either season three or season four (depending on whether or not they choose to remember the magically disappearing year between seasons five and six) and we have Sam complaining to Dean that they need to clean up their old mess from years ago. Which is all very fine and good, except that Sam in both seasons was all about the Big Bad and did not give a toss about the MOTWs, for the most part.

I don’t mind the show flipping the script, with Dean obsessing over the Big Bads and Sam now caring more about MOTWs than the Leviathans (though Sam’s total lack of interest in the Leviathans is getting a might creepy). I’m fine with that. But it seems clumsy to have Sam constantly banging away at how Dean is obsessed with Dick Roman, without either Sam or Dean mentioning that, just a year ago, Sam was a soulless creature that had no compunction about killing people to get what he wanted. “Repo Man” seems like a good time to bring that up, seeing as how Sam was equally obsessed with Lilith in seasons three and four.

We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, and Supernatural.

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IFPTV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/15/12

28 Comments on “TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/15/12”

  1. elena

    As always, thanks for the spoiler round up, ladies!

    @Heather- I’m with you. At this point, I’d rather see almost anything other than that insipid love triangle. I hate that the show’s effectively turned Prince Charming, one of the most heroic and strong characters, into this indecisive, lying weakling. So not cool.

    @Paula- “the title implies a ghost MOTW and “Annie” happens to be the name of the ghost character in Being Human.”

    Great pick up! Maybe it’s a shout out to Jeremy Carver, eh?

    I know it sounds harsh but I really wish fandom would take a minute to get a grip and chill when it comes to spoilers. After reading all the melodramatic histrionics over this one line character description, I was just left shaking my head. Why automatically assume it’s going to be some sordid love triangle out of bad fanfic? Annie might be dead in the first 5 minutes, she might be evil, she might have been the object of both brothers’ teenage crushes, the whole thing could be a foiler… who knows at this point? If the episode does end up being a pile of poo, then that’s another story.

    Okay, end of rant and moving on..

    “I don’t mind the show flipping the script, with Dean obsessing over the Big Bads and Sam now caring more about MOTWs than the Leviathans (though Sam’s total lack of interest in the Leviathans is getting a might creepy).”

    Maybe this is the show’s way of paralleling S1? We already had the role reversals in episodes liike Wendigo/Adventures and Wicked/Repo. Sam pushing Dean away from the Levis does feel like how Dean diverted Sam away from finding John. The big difference is that the YED was their family’s personal revenge quest while Dick represents a threat to the entire planet. Maybe Sam is trying to protect Dean by doing these MOTW hunts but still, Sam’s total disinterest in the Levis when he knows the stakes comes across- as you put it- creepy.

    (If they are indeed paralleling S1, I hope that won’t extend to the idea of Sam paying the price for Dean’s obsession as Dean did for John’s. With the way the foundation for Dean’s storyline has been laid this season, I can’t see any sort of ‘redemption’ for Dean in his own mind unless he actually succeeds this time around. And he doesn’t need any more guilt piled on over hurting a loved one. Show already blames Dean for enough as it is.)

    “But it seems clumsy to have Sam constantly banging away at how Dean is obsessed with Dick Roman, without either Sam or Dean mentioning that, just a year ago, Sam was a soulless creature that had no compunction about killing people to get what he wanted. “Repo Man” seems like a good time to bring that up, seeing as how Sam was equally obsessed with Lilith in seasons three and four.”

    So true but I’m just not sure the show’s is willing to revisit either S4 Sam or Sambot. Neither of those painted Sam in a very sympathetic light. I’m thinking they might instead focus on Sam wanting revenge for Jess’ death versus Dean wanting revenge for Bobby.

    “The CW put out Valentine’s Day posters for its various male characters, including one each for Jared Padalecki, Jensen Ackles and Misha Collins. And you guys thought the network had forgotten all about Collins. Oh, ye of little faith.”

    It does make me wonder what would be the point of releasing that if the plan is just to boot Cas off the show again after three last episodes. I hope this is a sign that the character will indeed be sticking around next season.

  2. elena

    I just saw this over on today’s issue of “Watch with Kristin”:

    greenamberblue: Any chance of some Supernatural spoilers?

    You got it, dude! (Full House reference FTW!) That former flame of both boys we told you about yesterday? She’s also a hunter!

    Sigh. Maybe I’ll have to eat crow and take back what I said about bad fanfic. Still trying to wait and see, though.

  3. Ginger

    I don’t know what to make of the ‘meh’ spoilers we know about for coming episodes. I’m holding onto hope only based on your postings, Paula.

    I hadn’t heard about Annie before today, but I knew it was just a matter of time before we got another female hunter, of which I am totally, completely uninterested in, but am positive it will be another recurring character. My guess is look for a free loving spirit, the brothers to be dumbed down, and she can save the day for all. From the sounds of it, she’s already got two Winchester notches on her belt. I don’t expect anyone else to die this season (Garth, Lee, Krissy, Frank, or Annie). The brothers have more than been saturated with ‘losses,’ with Bobby’s being the top of the cake. Just a guess on my part.

    Have I mentioned I hate Garth? I know I’m in the minority, but I don’t really want to see Cas back as a recurring character next season either. They’ve wore that character out for me.

    Sam hasn’t had his eye on the big picture since the beginning of the season, but I think all these Frank calls from Dean are just to keep the Levi in the audience’s mind while we wander through MotW hunts and emo/angsting until we get to the last three episodes of the season and a story can be told. There hasn’t really been any forward movement on the brothers emo’ing or the mytharc all season, so we get the tease that there is a story to be told soon. I’m getting impatient, period, not just with Sam. I think Sam is supposed to be shown as wanting to keep busy so he keeps control, but he’s actually looking a little behind the game these days. Dean keeps giving into him quite easily, so he’s not looking all that revenge seeking either.

    Thanks for the round-up. I’m not keeping totally up on spoilers these days.

    I have no idea what to expect from the Repo Man.

  4. crowley_gal

    I kind of have mixed feelings on where I’d like the Cas story to go. I want him back as a regular character but part of me would love to see the writers take Dean down a dark road and have Cas be a hallcination.

    Although I doubt the show will go in that direction. Bobby being a ghost is too obvious so most likely that is exactly what is happening.

    If Dean loses Sam he has no one to rely on, so it would be an interesting twist if Dean’s mind conjures up Cas. It will be interesting to see if anyone else but Dean sees Cas.

  5. shamangrrl

    @Ginger
    I have to agree with everything you said regarding the spoilers and the mytharc. That’s why I really can’t get behind Dean tying into the mytharc – I haven’t been shown that there is a deliberately planned mytharc for the season. What have we got on the Levi’s, really (assuming they’re the plan for the season)? 1) They were released from Purgatory, 2) They have insatiable appetites, 3) They were locked away because they’ll consume the world and 4) They’re allergic to Borax. That’s pretty much it. And 1 through 3 were introduced in the first two episodes of the season. Everything else is just window dressing, smoke and mirrors (frankly, even the appetite thing is questionable, because they don’t seem to be moving onto the eating portion of the evening with any great speed). Everything else falls into fan speculation and wishes, because I’m not *seeing* anything onscreen. And that includes Dean’s quest for revenge. Frankly, he doesn’t seem any more invested in the Levi’s than in any other hunt. Mentioning the Levi’s, acknowledging that they exist and that people need to be protected from them doesn’t equal overwhelming desire for revenge in my book. Does Dean seem depressed? Yes, but frankly, that’s been the writer’s sole schtick for him pretty much every season from 3 onward. I’m not seeing the intensity and depth and sheer frustration I would expect from Dean, to equate his behaviour with being totally out-of-control or falling-over-the-edge-insanity. Honestly, I believed Sam’s vengence quest for Jess was deeper than what I’m seeing from Dean, maybe because it was cleaner and clearly presented. Dean’s been through so much that I can’t attribute his dispair to the Levi’s, can’t really believe that after everything, these bland and slowmoving lumps of whatever are what finally sent him off the deep end, and that frustrates me to no end. Maybe the writers will redeem themselves in the last two or three episodes, but I doubt it, because it makes everything in between nothing but filler, no matter how entertaining some of that filler might have been. Again, it’s tell not show, and the tell has been slight and sporadic, at best. Is this season better than last season? Yes. But that’s damning with very faint praise.

  6. charlotte{greenamberblue}

    I’m sorry I had to comment on your link to Jim Michael’s tweet about Jensen being on a suicide mission.

    First of all that tweet was sent to me, as I think it would be interesting to see Dean really go after Dick Roman in a fierce/dangerous manner – and I think JM took my comments too literally. I wasn’t saying that I wanted Dean to kill himself – I just like the idea of Dean being SPN’s answer to Riggs in Lethal Weapon, and that Dean could be badass..with emotional drama attached, and get the guy in the end. JM’s response did make me curious though..it felt like he was trying to nip any thoughts of that in the bud, and that it’s a definate no..or, is he trying to throw us off the scent.

    Secondly, lol this is the second time today I’ve seen my user name mentioned in a spoilery article. The other time on E Online. It just tickles me to see my name twice in a matter of hours. :)

    OFF TOPIC: It also tickles me too that Jensen uses British words..especially as I am a Brit, and feel like we could adopt him as one of our own. I’ve noticed him do it before, I wonder if he picks it up from family with connections to the UK? Or maybe he watches a lot of British TV?

  7. Ginger

    I saw the repeats on Thurs announcement late last night. That’s really interesting, and I do wonder if this is a test and they are thinking of switching SPN back to Thursdays next season with VD as the lead-in again.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Ginger
      It is entirely possible. That’s usually what that kind of thing means, over and above extra promotion for a show you like. While I’m very uneasy about their moving the show out of a slot where it is entirely secure, I can see why the CW (post-Dawn Ostroff) would consider it. I mean, their second-highest show for the past two weeks is in their crappiest slot on Friday nights. Forget the Friday Factor, my friend – it makes sense that they’d wonder if the show could be better showcased on a different night. A more-watched night.

      So, we’ll see.

      I am working on replies to everyone. It’s just that this is a pretty busy week and I’ve had a bunch of deadlines to juggle. Hence why my reviews of Being Human and Lost Girl are a day late.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Lily
      I think it’s too early to tell, but the sudden change after two weeks of SPN being in the number two slot, at ratings comparable to the ones it had last fall (which no other CW show, including The Vampire Diaries can boast), does indicate that possibility.

  8. Ginger

    I think it’s been proven that Nikita is not a good lead-in for SPN and that may be why they are testing the schedule. I don’t know what the competition would be on Thurs., though.

  9. Paula R. Stiles

    Okay, replying to everyone’s comments:

    @elena
    Yeah, I think it’s far too early to get excited about this Annie character, who will probably last about five minutes in the episode. I’m not wild about another female hunter character who’s a love interest for the brothers, and yes, it does sound like bad fanfic. But that’s mostly because their “kickass” females are usually jailbaity and not very bright. Fortunately, their better female characters tend to be over thirty and this character is supposed to be that. I just hope she doesn’t turn out to be the umpteenth “superhunter” character who’s supposed to be ten times the hunter the brothers are and…uh…isn’t. I’m sure the brothers can get help from other characters besides Mary Sue Hunter #55.

    I did see that producer’s preview. Sadly, it makes Sam seem rather weak. When Dean’s not there, his only recourse is to listen to the voice(s)? Well…okay.

    @Ginger
    The Frank calls are just the usual way the show does the mytharc this season. Remember the constant mentions about Dean’s deal in season three or Lilith in season four? Like that. While it would be nice to have a better idea of what the heck is going on in that field in Wisconsin, I don’t know that the mytharc is moving any more slowly this season than previous seasons. It’s just not a constant-serial kind of show. At least they didn’t blow their mystery wad in the fourth act of their season premiere, like season five.

    What I find interesting is that there is *no* interaction between Sam and Frank post-”Slash Fiction”. It’s all between Frank and Dean. In fact, if Dean weren’t taking phone calls from Frank in front of Sam, I might wonder if that relationship weren’t all going on inside Dean’s head. They set up a precedent in season five with the hallucidoc in “Sam, Interrupted” and there’s just something going on with Dean that is being hidden from us (and maybe Dean). I don’t think what we’re seeing is all that’s going on with him. Something’s really off.

    There used to be a ton of competition on Thursdays, but Grey’s Anatomy is ageing, Fringe moved to Fridays and CSI moved to Wednesdays. So, it’s pretty anemic now. Except for American Idol, which creams all competition. But that’s not on all the time.

    @crowley_gal
    It would kind of tickle me if Castiel did turn out to be a hallucination. I really think the writers have not capitalised as much as they could have on the possibilities of monsters that can absorb someone you love, with all their memories, and mimic them exactly. And how that would mess with your head. A lot.

    @shamangrrl
    Eh, I don’t agree, especially about Sam’s Quest to Avenge Jessica. That got mentioned several times in season one, the writers got bored with it, and it was summarily dropped in favour of psykid shenanigans. Sam never did kill YED in the end and it took him several seasons more to (accidentally) find out who Jessica’s ‘real’ killer was and kill him.

    Season one has some lovely episodes, sure, but its mytharc looks a lot more coherent from a distance than it does in the actual episodes. Season two is not much better. The writers strike played merry hell with season three, though Dean’s death masks that by bringing everything to a dark and magnificent conclusion. Season four also has a great ending, but I don’t recall anybody rhapsodising over Lilith as a villain and the angels weren’t revealed as the heavies until the very end. Season five started well, gave up far too much early on, went off the rails after 5.18, and never recovered. As for season six, well, that mytharc was just a mess.

    As for Dean being not insane, well, there’ve been Tell and Show every single episode this season (including last week) that Thar Be Somethin’ Very Wrong with Dean, Matey. Not like this show is subtle with its plot anvils. And depression and intensity simply don’t belong in the same plot. If Dean’s depressed, he’s lost his motivation, so he’s going to be (at best) chasing his tail the way he’s been doing.

    @charlotte
    Heh. Glad we made your day. Hey, somebody needed to ask. You might as well get the credit for being the first.

    That does tickle me, too. I suspect it’s simply because BC has a huge British expat population and Ackles picked it up from one of the crew. It’s a fine word. I’m also fond of “bollocks”. And a few others I picked up in Scotland that are too naughty for this forum. You Brits sure know how to curse. It’s brilliant.

    @Arafel
    You’re welcome! And we shall see about any moves. But certainly, their decision to air repeats on Thursdays is not *bad* news.

    1. shamangrrl

      @Paula
      “Eh, I don’t agree, especially about Sam’s Quest to Avenge Jessica.”

      To me, him being off his rocker, ignoring a baby in a burning crib and trying to run back inside a burning house because the demon was inside signaled that Sam wasn’t playing with a full deck. His not killing YED and it later being retconned that YED didn’t kill Jess are separate issues. I’m just saying that to me, it was clear that Sam was out for vengence and wasn’t exactly sane about it. I’m just not seeing that kind of blind commitment to destrution with Dean. Because if Dean were acting that way – there’d be a *hell* of a lot more destruction.

      With regard to the mytharc of various seasons, whether they ended well or not, I think it was obvious what the mytharc was supposed to be. The execution has been off, quite often, but I’m not feeling it this year, just as I wasn’t feeling it with Souless!Sam in S6. Just as in S6, I don’t get the feeling the writers have really committed to the mytharc, and if they can’t be bothered to commit, why should I?

      “As for Dean being not insane..”
      If I implied I thought Dean was right in the head, that he wasn’t suffering, wasn’t having problems with reality, then I certainly didn’t mean to. I just find it hard to believe that it’s the lame-ass Levi’s that have pushed him over the edge. Within the context of what’s appeared onscreen, I just can’t see them being the final straw for Dean. Actually, the problem is that I think the writers think they’ve portrayed Dean as hitting bottom – and I don’t think he has. But whetever, opinions vary. For me, it once again revolves around Tell vs. Show, and I think there’s a distinct divide between the two. But I can agree to disagree.

  10. Cassieo

    Thanks for the round up Paula.

    The whole ‘old flame’ spoiler, who is now being labeled as a hunter, is very weak. It’s only from one source and that source does stretch the truth to get viewers…like who doesn’t right? I think bringing in a love interest during the leviathan fight and Castiels fate, and that is supposed to be his last episode (for right now at least, is another attempt to put a strain on the brothers relationship. And yes…as she is a flame of BOTH boys, Sam is back by 7.19. I would suspect he will be back by the end of 7.17. I doubt that SG would sideline Sam for too long. Anyway I just think she does go too far to make a point. We GET it SG. They are stressed…now move on!

    As for the producers preview…seems to me that Sam is doing his irresponsible stuff again. What can be so important with an old case for him to tempt fate? He knows that Dean is counting on him. He knows that Dean is very worried about his condition. He knows that he’s needed for the leviathan fight, and he goes to an area that gives strength to his hallucination? Once again Sam just doesn’t listen to Dean, and just expects Dean will pick up the pieces.

    Why would they do this? Think the writers just couldn’t think of a way to get Sam instatutionalized or is this another way to make Sam look sympathtic for being irresponsible again…i.e. “poor Sam sacrificed so much for thie case. He can’t be blamed for diseerting his brother.” Yadayadayada.

    I think this will be a silly episode. And really am thinking about just DVR it and watch if it gets good reviews.

  11. elena

    “I did see that producer’s preview. Sadly, it makes Sam seem rather weak”

    @Paula- if it were any other writer, I’d agree but Edlund has this thing about Super Sam. He had Sam kill Hell’s Chief Inquisitor, be strong enough to defeat a Horseman, and come up with the brilliant plan of saying yes to overpower Lucifer. And unfortunately, the corollary is Edlund also had Dean beaten unconscious/standing in place/locked in a closet in order to let Sam shine. I think Edlund is great at characterization and prefers writing either Dean or Cas. But he’s drunk the same “Sam as the Special Snowflake” koolaid as the rest of the group. I’m back to thinking Sam’s going to heroically let Luci in so he can save Dean and stop the bad guy because that’s just how Edlund seems to roll.

    On the bright side, if this is just the prelude to Sam’s meltdown and nothing more noteworthy, I can live with it even if I hate Dean being shoved out of the way. My concern is that we later find out Luci “told” Sam how to stop the Leviathans or some other such nonsense. At least Cas would have reason to have that info; Sam hearing about it in Hell would make no sense.

  12. Ginger

    Thanks, Paula, for taking the time from your busy week to respond. Just one comment on Frank and Dean: How many times over the past years has the show teased that Dean’s badass story would have a pay-off. That is the crux of the lingering doubt about what this rapidly vanishing season will deliver.

    I didn’t realize that Ben Edlund is the writer for Repo Man. I used to get really excited for Edlund epiosdes, but not so much any more. He seems to have little interest in the show these days. So far this season we’ve gotten Hello Cruel World and How to Win Friends. Neither have been that spectacular as far as either brother is concerned, except for the Stone #1 scene. He did do well in The Devil You Know in not pushing Dean into the background as he introduced Sam’s stupidest plan ever story. I hope this episode follows that path, especially if it’s another Sam’s stupid plan story.

  13. Laurie

    Blood in the vial? If it ends up being demon blood I’ll be very pissed off. If they take Dean dark, that’s not the way to do it.

    Season 7 is better than 6 in my opinion, but also more frustrating. It’s like endless foreplay with no payoff, but foreplay with the wrong body parts. I’ll end the metaphor before it gets ugly.

  14. Paula R. Stiles

    @Cassieo
    Yeah, Kristin (or those who write in her name) like to re-package non-spoilers or known spoilers in a more salacious form. Take that with the usual hunk of rock salt.

    I don’t know what the writers are thinking with Sam right now, but it could well be that institutionalising him isn’t the way they’re going to give Padalecki more time off. It’s starting to sound like a one-off situation. Which makes you wonder what’s going on there. If Sam’s being made all better, it’s more likely so that he can try to “save” Dean rather than be the Hero, himself.

    @elena
    Edlund also wrote “The Man Who Would Be King”. And I’m sure whatever “Sam bias” he’s showing has nothing to do with “drinking the Kool-Aid”, everything to do with what he can get through on a pitch and what he can’t. Nothing leaves that writing room for Vancouver without the showrunners’ stamp of approval. And last season, that still included Kripke’s.

    Just sayin’ – Edlund’s not running the show. He doesn’t get to decide what and who’s important or not. Saying, “Oh, Edlund’s writing it and he’s a Samfan” doesn’t fly.

    And might I add that we have not yet seen this episode? It has been a pattern all season that the show spoils most of Sam’s role in an episode and then we find out that means we knew very little about it because most of it was about Dean. Sure, the spoilers say that Sam lets Lucifer in, blah, blah, blah. And the promo shows that there’s at least one big twist with the MOTW, that Torturer Dean comes out for a romp in the demon-killing fields, that Dean gets drugged with some mysterious red substance and ends up face down on a bed with Sam and Lucifer having a chat over his comatose body…that’s a *lot*. And it’s a lot we know very little about. So, obviously, the whole thing won’t be forty minutes of the Sam and Lucie Show.

    Let’s not condemn the episode ahead of time. Look at last week. It turned out a good deal better than its godawful title.

    There actually hasn’t been that much Sam Snowflake this season. It’s really been more a case of the show making Sam sidekick-y, which means that Dean gets held to a much higher standard. Not the same thing.

    @shamangrrl
    Meh, freaking out in an emergency situation? I’ve seen that a *lot* from perfectly sane civilians. Irrational and mentally ill don’t automatically equate. Sam just forgot his training and lost his head, that’s all–which made him act like an immature hothead. As for the revenge thing, if revenge alone made you mentally ill, half the protagonists of westerns would be certifiable.

    As for the season mytharc, I don’t expect much continuity from season to season, anymore. Truth is, as long as they have the brothers in there (or, at least Dean), kicking ass and taking down names, I’ll be happy. That was the big element that was missing from the ends of seasons five and six. Don’t put the Winchester boys in a corner, show.

    I’ll allow that Dean has not yet hit rock bottom, but hey, the season is still young(ish). He did hit *a* rock bottom in 4.16 and then they “reset” him in 4.17. I have a feeling they’re going to do something similar with Sam in 7.17, the better to concentrate on the Leviathan Plot AKA Dean’s Hideous Nervous Breakdown in the last six episodes.

    I think a lot depends on what you view as the mytharc. Yes, the Leviathans are the Big Bads of the season, but the mytharc is really the brothers being pushed to the limit and over, with Sam’s breakdown being the minor key version. If you look at the mytharc as Dean being pushed to do something cosmically mad, that has been referenced and pushed forward in some fashion in literally every episode this season.

    @Ginger
    I’ll grant you that the show has screwed up on this front before, but the season is not over and there’s no reason at this point to believe they *won’t* follow through. If you look at seasons as self-enclosed units, we’ve had some satisfying pay-off on Dean–like his going to Hell and his being tapped by Heaven as a major player. Or his obsession with family dovetailing with Finding Dad at the end of season one and his making a deal at the end of season two. Have those storylines always carried over well into subsequent seasons? No. But we’re not talking about that. Just season seven. And every season is different.

    @Laurie
    Demon blood is black, so it’s probably not that. I’m not sure what effect demon blood would have on Dean, anyway. That was a pretty confusing scene, in a lot of ways. As for Dean going dark, he’s gone down that road far enough that we know it would not look like Sam going dark. Dean in early season two was extremely disturbed and dangerous, but he wasn’t selfish or pissy. Or mean. Maybe that’s why they have Dean be a gentle lover and good with kids–to offset the dark and crazy in the rest of his personality.

    I’ll grant you on the foreplay, but remember that this is 7.15 (which we haven’t seen yet) out of 23 episodes. And they did say the latter part of the season would be Leviathan-heavy, which is almost certainly code for “Deancentric”. We’re not even to third base, yet. It makes sense that the mytharc’s still got its modesty and virginity (mostly) intact.

  15. Lily

    After tonight’s episode, I think you are absolutely on the right track about Dean and the road he is now traveling. You are one insightful lady! Let’s hope they don’t back track and derail what looks like a very fruitful season.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Lily
      Thanks! Before, I think they could have backed off that and still gotten away with it. Tonight, they laid some real track. Dean appears to have arrived at his post-apocalyptic self a year or two early in this timeline. My biggest complaint is that they were too busy being subtle and underplayed it.

    2. Ann Emmess

      Ha, that’ exactly what I was thinking. I’ve read all of your reviews for past seasons, Paula, and I’d think “Dean mad? Well…I guess I can see it. But I don’t know how much it matters/is actually intentional since they never do anything with it.”

      And then last night could not have been a bigger, more obviously deliberate indication that they’re gonna DO something with it. Which I hope they follow through with (I’m thinking this might be the season cliffhanger) but anyway I was thinking “Man, I hope Paula’s feeling deservedly smug right now. :)

      1. Paula R. Stiles

        @Ann Emmess
        I think it’s pretty early to be smug. But it would be really nice if they followed through on this. To have a major Dean storyline with a real punch hidden under the handwaving about Sam’s hellpain and the Leviathans could be a lot of fun.

  16. Cassieo

    Thought the episode was okay, but could have been done with out Luci at all. Not that I don’t like Mark P but it would have worked just as well without the hallucinations.

    “Dean appears to have arrived at his post-apocalyptic self a year or two early in this timeline.”

    I though Dean was quite well together here and very sympathetic to Jeffrey…his downfall, so I guess I’m confused by what you mean by “a year or two earlier”.

    1. Paula R. Stiles

      @Cassieo
      Jeffrey gives Dean an absolutely appalling list of injuries, 95% of them inflicted by Dean, ending with the words: “The doc said it looked like I’d been worked over by the Spanish Inquisition.”

      Dean’s response? A shrug and an Oh, huh, sorry about that man. Tools of the trade.

      Later, when Dean sees Jeffrey going after the possessed son, he shoots him fatally. When Jeffrey doesn’t go down quite fast enough, Dean shoots him again. Or maybe it’s just for kicks.

      At the very end, Dean does a faceplant on his bed and figures he’s had a big day. It’s time for a nap. Well, I’m not at all surprised, seeing as how he got drugged and just bagged his third human (thus making him technically a serial killer) without batting an eye. And that’s on top of the guy he killed last week without a hint of remorse. Any grief for Jeffrey? Nope. Which is also unsurprising, since he didn’t even remember the guy’s name until Jeffrey reminded him.

      If that’s not dark and ice cold, I don’t know what is. The whole episode, I kept thinking Dean was coming across like one of the replicants in “Blade Runner”.

      @Lily
      I think so, but I’m not sure. Dean talked about Lilith, and he and Sam had the Spork. There was something else Dean said about maybe the seals? But I didn’t catch it.

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