- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/02/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/09/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/16/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/23/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/30/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/06/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/13/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/20/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/27/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/06/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/13/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/20/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/27/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/03/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/10/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/17/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/24/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/01/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/08/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/15/13
This week, we have more news and spoilers about upcoming books, Once Upon a Time, returning sci-fi shows, and Supernatural. You can access previous spoilers columns here.
Horrific Reads, Bloody Off the Press
By Nathaniel Katz
The week’s biggest news is no doubt Subterranean Press’ announcement of a new collection from Joe R. Landsdale. Entitled ‘Bleeding Shadows‘ and containing a plethora of (in many cases, previously uncollected) fiction, it will not be released until November, but is available for preorder now. The final novella within it may be of particular interest to denizens of Innsmouth, combining as it does the works of H.P. Lovecraft with Huckleberry Finn. This week also sees the release of Landsdale’s newest crime novel, Dead Aim, for those that also enjoy that less horrific side of his writing.
Centipede Press, meanwhile, is selling a collection of the works of Maurice Level, a macabre French writer from a century back. The luxurious volume – a href=”http://www.centipedepress.com/horror/mauricelevel.html”>Tales of the Grand Guignol – promises illustrations, twists and brutality. In other Centipede-related news about hallowed reissues, the Cornell Woolrich set of five volumes that Centipede produced some time back is now available in paperback.
Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina
Adam Horowitz announced the title for 2.18 on his Twitter as “Selfless, Brave and True.”
Adam also announced that Jamie Dornan (the Sheriff, the Huntsman) is doing a guest appearance.
It looks as if Jamie’s return will involve flashbacks to pre-curse-breaking. As there are also scenes of Ginnifer Goodwin, Meghan Ory, Lana Parrilla, and Raphael Sbarge filming a pre-curse-broken flashback scenes in the town, according to YVRshoots.
Vancity has up a video of a car chase scene involving Jamie Dornan and Lana Parrilla. There are some pictures of them here.
The official ABC Once Twitter account revealed three snippets of the season finale script. You can see them here, here and here.
David: He paid the ultimate price for his arrogance. He’s dead.
“Mr. Gold: How terribly uncivilized.
“Mr. Gold (con’t): Have you ever been impaled on a cane before?
Don’t forget that the show returns this Sunday with an all new episode!
Sci-Fi Spoilerpalooza
By Heather S. Vina
The British magazine, SFX, has up on their site a “spoiler free” preview of episode two for the British version of Being Human. You can see the preview for it on Spoiler TV site.
Spoiler TV also has up the synopses for episode two and episode three on their site.
As for the American version of Being Human, Spoiler TV has up a synopsis for episodes 5-7.
Supernatural (Wednesday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles
The episode tonight is 8.13, “Everybody Hates Hitler,” written by fan favorite, Ben Edlund. In addition to the official press release and official photos, we have the CW promo, a Producer’s Preview, a sneak peek, and the Canadian promo. In addition, Ben Edlund and Robert Singer gave interviews about the episode and the new “Men of Letters” storyline. Edlund also gave a mini-interview to EW in which he warned that the new hideout the brothers have found will not be without problems – and that Dean will be the first to point them out, albeit not this week.
The press release for 8.15 is up:
“Man’s Best Friend With Benefits – DEAN REALLY DOESN’T LIKE WITCHES – A police officer named Kevin (guest star Christian Campbell), who turned to witchcraft after working a case with Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles), is plagued by nightmares in which he murders innocent people. However, when the murders actually happen, Sam and Dean are called in by Kevin’s ‘familiar’ (guest star Mishael Morgan) to help – but the brothers aren’t sure they want to save a witch. John Showalter directed the episode written by Brad Buckner & Eugenie Ross-Leming.”
Jared Padalecki was interviewed for Watch! Magazine. No new spoilers.
The CW has a new promo out. This appears to be a slightly longer version of the one issued a few weeks ago. It has clips from the show but nothing new.
The episode titles for 8.19 and 8.20 are “Taxi Driver” and “Pac-Man Fever,” respectively. Someone has already posted here, in a hopeful tone, that the former might involve Dean going ballistic. However, considering how underwhelming some of the better titles have been in recent seasons (though kudos, show, for making “As Time Goes By” entirely on the nose), I’m not holding my breath.
No word yet on when these episodes will air, since 8.18 is scheduled for March 27 and there are eight more weeks until May 22, with five episodes left. So, there will be some hiatus or two during April and possibly May.
YVR Shoots has photos from 8.17 of Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki filming a scene in which the brothers drive down a road, park, get out of the Impala (in suits) and rush into a building.
Finally, ratings for “As Time Goes By” had another 0.9/2 and 2.12 million in audience, putting the show once again at third on the network (Arrow also got a 0.9, but it was a 0.9/3, which is slightly higher). The demo was steady and audience was up 11 thousand.
So, speculation: I’m not too wild about the constant flip between mytharc and comic MOTWs this season. It feels abrupt and jerky. Nor is it necessary for so much of the show to be light and flaky. It’s horror. It should feel like horror. And while Edlund can be a very good writer, his explanation that he picked Nazis because they’re one of the few groups out there that it’s PC to beat to a pulp doesn’t fill me with confidence for this week. There’s a reason why Godwin’s Law was formulated.
There was yet another fan kerfuffle this past week over Singer’s interview. The main points of contention were Singer’s reiteration of Sam’s statement about “brain” and “brawn,” casting Sam as the brain and Dean as the brawn, and that the reason why Samelia went down like a lead balloon was because female viewers don’t like female characters. I’d like to point out that spoilerage in Singer’s interviews is often very inaccurate. Note, for example, that Edlund also talked in vague terms about the “library” (It’s actually an archive), so the brain-and-brawn statement should be taken with a hunk of rocksalt. Many fans have already pointed out that Sam was anything but smart in “As Time Goes By,” and Dean was the smartest character in the episode.
I talked last week about Singer’s sexist assertion that fangurls hate Samelia because she’s a love interest (Not that they’re the only ones whose opinion matters, but I’m not seeing much love for Samelia amongst the fanboys, either. But I digress). I’ll just point out, then, that spacing in the very same interview why it might have been good to at least mention John’s mother in “As Time Goes By,” and greenlighting an episode in which a guy has a girlfriend who used to be his dog, aren’t exactly indications of feminist thought, and leave it that. I’m pretty sure the female fans don’t hate Amelia because she’s Sam’s girlfriend. I’m pretty sure it has a lot more to do with her being weak, whiny and an unapologetic adulteress.
As far as brains and brawn, parsing this out from the whole SamvsDean debate, I think the main problem many fans are having with this “new” reason for Sam to go a-hunting (i.e., geeking out over his snobby new family heritage, as made manifest in the Men of Letters and their archive) is less to do with Sam being the “brains” and more to do with the thing that’s been sabotaging every Sam storyline since at least the middle of season six. Bu that, I mean his doing nasty things to people and then feeling no need for guilt or apology. What Sam needs is a redemption storyline not a shiny new playground. Any new story element involving Sam, whether it be a girlfriend or an underground “Batcave,” is going to founder if it doesn’t serve Sam learning to grow up, which involves (among other things) owning up to his mistakes and no longer being a selfish prat. The guy is 30 at this point and his behavior is beginning to look very narcissistic. There’s nothing nice about that.
Regarding Dean, I disagree that there is nothing for him in this storyline so far. The hints about the story in the Singer and Edlund interviews, paired with how the spoilers for last week actually turned out in the episode, turn up something intriguing. Dean is neither a passive nor an enthusiastic recipient of this new, game-changing heritage. Instead, he is in conflict with it. Edlund hints broadly that the archive will not come without risks and that Dean will uncover this aspect of the brothers’ inheritance. Note that Dean’s conflict with his inheritance is currently due to unresolved feelings about his father, which he took out on his grandfather last week. In other words, this is the father-son conflict of season one, recast in a different brother in season eight. And unless this show changes its MO a lot, the brother in conflict with the father figure is the one with the mytharc.
What that mytharc will be I have no idea, but it’s clear that the MoL archive will have a great part in it. This set is obviously intended as a story generator (as Edlund himself admits concerning the Nazi necromancers tonight) along the lines of Warehouse 13, the vault in Friday the 13th: The Series, or even the old anthology series, Night Gallery. But the mytharc element will have to include some conflict and wanting to explore it doesn’t strike me as much of a conflict. So, I think Dean’s the one who will be bringing the conflict over the archive and probably the mytharc, too.
Some may argue that we have been down this road before and we have – with other showrunners. But the archive is something no one saw coming and it is a major gamechanger. If it lasts, we can expect it to change the shape of the show quite a bit. That will affect both brothers.
We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm and Supernatural.
If you like these spoilers, please help continue our site by making a donation, buying one of our fiction issues, or buying one of our books: Fraterfamilias, Historical Lovecraft, Future Lovecraft, and our Gothic horror anthology, Candle in the Attic Window. You can also buy Paula’s non-fiction book on medieval Spanish history, Templar Convivencia.







Thanks for the roundup, Paula. Still wanting to get thrilled, still not able to. It really does seem as if the mytharc is absent, doesn’t it? How long until Castiel comes back? And at least, it seems as if Benny will be back (eventually). Hopefully, they won’t just kill him off.
Nobody knows yet when Castiel is coming back. Unfortunately.
I’m guessing the Men of Letters thing is the actual multi-season arc and the tablets are just a feature in it.
Me too. I have suspected for a while that the tablets were a piece of things and not the big deal.
An added thing I saw this morning was that Adam Glass now has a twitter account, and on it he said he had the outline for 8.20, which Robbie Thompson is writing.
I don’t think I’m liking this social media thing that’s going on with various people connected to the show. It seems very skewed, by the nature of twitter itself – the short and sweet thing — in that the people that post to these people connected to the show are, naturally, all about the ‘love’ of them as personalities. An example is that there were several posts about loving Garth, how great Charlie was as a little sister, and could they please bring Krissy back as another little sister. I can’t help but feel that these personalities are getting an unfair representation of what the masses like in the show, taking it further away from horror/drama into sci-fi comedy.
I don’t get too excited about the interviews that are given out. They are so general, they really don’t tell us much of anything. I’m still into watching for Jensen/Dean until the show gets to a real mytharc. Even then, I expect them to screw it up. I do think they will continue with the some mytharc/more stand-alones in the future, based on Singer saying the stand-alones have always been the bread and butter of the show.
I wonder why the CW didn’t slip in at least one Purgatory scene in their promo clip. That’s been the most interesting thing seen on SPN this year.
I agree with you, Paula. Sam is in serious need of a redemption storyline. I don’t think that’s in the plan for this season. Rather, I think that Dean assuming fault for everything that went on in the first 9 episodes and Sam being excited about the library (i.e., his commitment to continue hunting) is it for this season.
I wouldn’t sweat the Twitter thing too much. He’s not the first show writer to have an account there and he will get plenty of ugly soon enough. This is just the honeymoon period.
As for what the writers pay attention to, they’ll take whatever feedback fits their worldview and that’s it. And I think the way Samelia is being talked about by Singer, they aren’t entirely divorced from the reality of the fandom. I also think they are fairly aware that Krissy wasn’t especially popular, though the actress does seem sweet in real life, when she’s not doing the Brat acting shtick.
Regarding Sam’s (lack of a) redemption arc, I’ve realized I’m not going to be able to like him much until he starts making amends. If the writers don’t want do that, that’s their problem.
Good to know there are others with their heads in the clouds regarding DEAN. The tone of those interviews seemed to be chatting up what little they had for Sam and saying as little about Dean as possible for fear of spilling the beans.
What is making me laugh, however, is that apparently they are putting in visual clues that they finally had to tweet about because no one noticed! They probably should not have fanned the flames of a divided fandom then. I still hold out hope that a human redemption story for Sam is in the works still and it will involve accepting and supporting Dean’s heroic arc.
I’m hoping that having the big, new expensive stage set of a bunker doesn’t mean we don’t see anymore cheap, trashy motel rooms. I always look to see what the stage people have done with them and, actually, this season looked more like they were reusing materials to lower production costs (but I liked them). Most of them have been very 1950ish looking, which probably fits into the new MoL mytharc.
I agree with you, Paula, that the MoLs is probably a multi-seasonal arc.
It reminded me of the Cold War bunker in Scotland that was meant for Parliament to evacuate to in case of nuclear war, actually.
You were spot on about secret societies dedicated to evil. I liked the boy and his golem. Would love to see them again. Was annoyed that Sam wanted the golem too. I loved Dean luxuriating in his Newfoundland creature comforts, but did he have to be written as such a buffoon.
I am pretty sure that I saw a hitler/golem Musical segment in a fairly recent horror anthology. Edlund too it seems. I wish he had gone for full alliteration – nazi necromancers need annihilation now.
It speed along and Sam is happy. Dean mentioned castiel. Dean got sorta picked up by a Guy.
Sam = brains and Dean = brawn kinda has to mean Dean does the trials. Henry surely wouldn’t have the MOL hellhound wrastle. I got the impression from the trailer that Dean is kissing a CRD so that a hellhound comes calling.
From the spoiler promo, it seemed to me that it’s Sam who kills the hellhound, thus setting up yet another heroic story arc for Sam to last the rest of the show. Dean, I’m sure, will still be able to drive the car at least and maybe get to do something heroic just to pacify the Dean fans.
What I don’t get about these visual clues is why even mention them after the fact? To me if someone is pointing you towards a “clue” it is in order for you to deduce something. So if all this wallpaper business was only to point out that they were using hourglass patterns in an episode that we know dealt with time travel, I’m at a loss to explain why the bother to tell fans to look at the set decor. It’s like a person telling you how much they love unicorns and then pointing out all their unicorn accessories and asking you to guess what having those accessories means. Duh!
Surely there has to be more to it. Otherwise, ????
I don’t know. It’s a bit messy.
Actually, on-set-pics of Misha Collins shooting scenes just hit tumblr and they are currently shooting 8×17 I think.
Yes, the scene of the brothers in suits is also from 8.17.
Do you have a link? That’s kind of scary since the episode is title “Goodbye Stranger” Hope that doesn’t mean the end of Cass! Thought I’m thinking Naomi is the primary arc for s8 and this is only ep 17. Could Cass get killed and Dean go ballistic over it?
“That was then, this is now. Sam, if anything, is a little starry-eyed and voracious the way he was at Stanford” upon seeing the secret hideout, says Edlund. “This is a library. You don’t burn the Library of Alexandria. It may come to pass that later, as maybe thorns start to grow down there, Dean will bring up [destroying the place] independently, but that’s not in this episode.” – Ben Edlund
It would be a shame if they’d really blow that place up by the end of the season. Talking about wasted potential times a million. But I am keeping my fingers crossed. And if they’d really had to blow it up then it better be because the biggest danger for the boys and the world comes out of/from in there and is far more harmful and powerful than demon, angels and leviathans.
Also, have some more spec:
So am I really the only one thinking that…
…a) the angel tablet might be stored in the MoL-headquarters and that this is also the reason why Naomi was/is so interested in the Winchesters? I personally think her interest in them – and her having Cas “spy” on them to know where their HQ are – stems from her knowledge about the Winchesters being the last MoL and her either definite knowledge that the tablet has been stored with them or her speculation it must be in the hands of the MoL because of their powers and weapons. These things also maybe being of interest to her because she would want them to undermine her position in heaven or keep heaven save from outside forces.
OR OMG GUYS I JUST HAD AN IDEA!!! Okay maybe I forgot something and this is impossible because I am missing information, but has it ever been said where Balthazar put/hid all the weapons he stole from heaven? WHAT IF HE ALSO STORED THEM WITH THE MoL??? WHAT IF THEY WILL FIND SOME OF HEAVEN’S STRONGEST AND MOST POWERFUL WEAPONS IN THE BUNKER??? WHAT IF ONE OF THOSE WEAPONS CAN HELP THEM TO GET RIDD OF NAOMI??? OMG! O.0
Wouldn’t that be fitting?
…b) if in the MoL-headquarters don’t exist weapons from heaven to get ridd of Naomi, there will at least be a spell or some info on who/what she is (is she maybe a knight of hell as well that invaded heaven?) how to free heaven from her reign.
…c) the show hopefully will pick up and start to build on the theme of the souls? The souls were a major element if S6 but their potential as story elements were imo underdeveloped. I am thinking we will get to see more about the powers of the soul and how to use it. I mean why highlight that so dramatically with Henry, if you intend to not build on that potential? So, I guess the boys (with the info and help they find in MoL-HQ) will learn how to tap into the power of their souls and use that extra power to fight those 3 trials to close the gates of hell (or any evil in general). The gift to channel the power of your soul can certainly be helpful as a hunter.
…d) somewhere down the line it will be revealed that there exist a “human tablet” as well? I would find this to be absolutely logical. If there is a demon, a leviathan and and angel tablet, then there should be a human tablet as well? But what if it isn’t helpful but harmful for humanity? After all, all the tablets talk about how to get ridd of something. Most of the time of the something it is about.
So what if on that human tablet it is described how to pop Lucifer and Michael back out of the cage to re-start the apocalypse? I highly doubt they would go there. Actually I am 100% certain they would never go there, but so find it interesting to speculate about.
Oh and last but not least:
…e) Where the hell in all of this is Death? Cause I would love to have Death back on the show. Plus: if there is no info on how to free heaven from Naomi and what Naomi is in MoL-HQ, I bet Death knows a thing or two about her. Of course he told them if they’d ever try to bind him again they’d die before they’d start. But hey maybe there is another way to “call” him.
I’m skeptical than anybody has stored anything in the archive since 1958. It would kind of defeat the purpose of having an impregnable fortress.
I think there’s almost certainly a human tablet. Whether the writers will ever go there, though, is another story. I’m guessing there’s also a monster tablet.
I doubt the archive will be destroyed any time soon. And I’m sure they can manage motel sets at the same time. The MoL set is the one they used for the vampire lair in “Twihard.” Very different set. I bet some parts will also be reused parts of the Bobby’s house set. They’re basically recycling, here.
I thought I replied about naomi on last thread… but as you know it is hard to make sense sometimes when excited.
I surely think naomi suspects the angel tablet is there. I think she probably sent abbadon and either intended to get the key or the Winchesters get it as a failsafe since she believes castiel has access to them. I suspect she is bad and of angelic origin, so probably a hell knight- although it can be hard to tell good or bad angels. She is powerful because cas can’t recognize her and I am not sure she adjusts him at every visit. She is programmed into his head or projected there- I guess for the time being she is angel radio. She hears all and angels only communicate to her.
Could we be looking at the angelic secret society? The knights of hell?
Whether the weapons are there depends on what warding is in place and/or if one of the weapons negates warding.
It makes me happy that Carver is using lost plots like the power of souls, and gives me hope that he will use others like Dean’s catalogue of wondrous accolades.
Regarding opening the cage, I wonder if they will go there. Why. Else introduce the knights of hell. Surely the elite order of the first fallen. (Angels?) Handpicked by Lucifer would remain loyal and be invested in his return to power.
I do like the thought that Naomi knows that the Winchesters are the decendends of the MoL society and that is why she is interested in them. It does dovetail the two stories very nicely together. The library seems, according to Larry, to contain a lot of power and maybe Naomi is either worried about the power falling in the wrong hands, or maybe she wants that power for herself, though I can’t phathom why, since she’s all powerful.
It would be intersting if the library contained something along the lines of The Tree of Life. This was the other tree in the Garden of Eden. Had Eve eaten from that one first, we’d be immortal. Adding the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge would have made mankind equal to the gods.
I wonder if that is what she is worried about.
Cool! Maybe some of the fruit is there or a way for humans to go back. I thought that Joshua was taking care of the garden of eden, which makes it part if heaven ?
Thanks for the round up Paula. And yes, Sam’s new reason to get into the family business is all about the title he can now say he has. Sad isn’t it? He is the supposed lead hero and he can only get in the swing of things if he is snobbishly motivated. Thank heaven for Dean. At least he is a hero for the right reason. Maybe if he knew earlier that he was from such a noble heritage, he wouldn’t have abandon Dean and Kevin. Sad to say, but it’s possible that with his new ego boost, he might tend to be more lenient with the Benny. If seen other narcissistic personalities do that. Course that’s not how the Sam-fans would view it at all.
And I would love to see Sam grow up, but look at him now. All excited over his new title. TPTB just don’t want him to mature. He has a child mentality that they can use to stir up conflict and drama between the brothers. He will betray Dean again as soon as he can’t have his own way. TPTB couldn’t do that if Sam was mature.
I didn’t hear that the archive has risks involved. Course every rose has it’s thorn, but how can this risk be any worse than we have seen in the past? No evil can penetrate it and as long as the people who know about it are responsible, I can’t think of how it could be risky. Knowledge is power, but it evil has no access because of some supernatural shield, I don’t see how it can do harm.
I’m sure Abbadon was just going to throw the key inside and close it up. He could never enter but then no hunter could either.
As a side note, and I am not criticizing the archive as I REALLY like it, but being as it was closed up for 55 yrs, it sure was clean. No dust, cob webs or skeletons. Course the new set is so pretty guess the just wanted everyone to see it at it’s best from day one. Or maybe the MoL cast a spell on it so it’d keep itself clean.
As for the interviews, I have given up on anything good coming Deans way, so if they say it’s All About Sam, it probably is.
And Dean was made to look unnecessarily aggressive to his granddad cause TPTB wanted Dean to look like the ‘brawn’ part of the ‘brains and brawn’ phase. So it would ‘fit’ in with Sam’s new snobby calling. I just hope the do still know Dean is the smarter brother and always has been. At least he isn’t dumb enough to keep getting caught by the bad guys. I’m beginning to think Sambutt would feel left out if he wasn’t captured at least once a month!
As for tonight’s episode, Nazis were never my thing. So that doesn’t entice me. I am interested in how they show the spontaneous combustion thing. I guess under the right conditions, ie how much fatty tissue the victim has, it can happen…at least on TV.
As for Dean and Sam and the Golem, could be funny…I guess. We should get some memorable facial expression from Dean with that. The actor is 7ft tall. That even dwarfs JP. Also read that he was in the initial Ghostfacers episode as the spirit. I can’t believe that they have to re-use all these actors. They have a pool of two countries to pull from!
Edlund mentioned risks. He was not specific, only that Dean would find out what they were, which gives Dean that storyline.
There were no skeletons because nobody was trapped in there. They left when they heard about the Abaddon attack (at least, that’s what Dean assumes). As for cobwebs, you need spiders or some other kind of spinning bugs to make those. But there ought to be a whole lot of dust. And the power shouldn’t have just come on like that.
Whooo…I forgot about the power! Your right! It should have been disconnected years ago. Could have been a generator, but all the gas should have evaporated in 55 yrs. Hehehe…oh well. It is just purrty to look at!
Episode 8.16 “Remember the Titans” Synopsis
GODS VS. ZOMBIES — Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) are stumped when they investigate a possible zombie case where an amnesiac man (guest star John Reardon) dies and then revives himself once a day. After the guy is attacked by the goddess Artemis (guest star Anna Von Hooft), Sam and Dean realize he’s not a zombie but instead a god, more specifically, Prometheus. Steve Boyum directed the episode written by Daniel Loflin (#816).
I like Loflin. He wrote Citizen Fang, one of the best episodes of this season IMO. I hope he does will by Dean in this one also.
Thanks for the round-up Paula.
I think a redemption story for Sam is exactly what they have planned from ep 14 on. I can see Sam using the fact that the failed Dean as a reason why he should do the trials and how Dean always protected him and now its his turn to protect Dean.
If that’s the way they are going, its why Sam’s redemption arcs never work for me. We haven’t seen any sign that Sam feels any remorse or regret for anything he’s done. For the arc to truly work Sam has to say these things and put Dean first when the chance to play hero isn’t on the line. Otherwise it just look like Sam doing whatever is necessary for him to get his way and play hero.
The best way for Sam to make amends for me is for him to apologize to Benny and Dean for being such jerk.
I don’t think Sam doing the trials will do him any favors in the redemption department. And I think they would basically have to incapacitate Dean in order to make Sam be the one to do the trials look at all realistic post-”As Time Goes By.”
I agree with you but logic has no place on this show.
As for Dean wanting to use caution with reguards to the deux-ex library I’m not seeing it as a set up as a story for Dean.
No matter what Dean says Sam is just going to do what he wants anyway, its not like he ever listens to advice from anyone or anything but his own ego. If Dean even dares question Sam the show treats it as Dean treating Sam like a kid and it leads to Sam running off and doing something stupid and than blaming Dean for not recognizing that Sam was a big boy. Then Dean apologizing for daring to have an opinion.
It pretty much just sets Dean up to be the bad guy again. Its pretty much pointless filler because Sam does what Sam want reguardless of consequences and than gets validated for it time and time again.
I haven’t watched the show 3 out of the last four weeks and I’m didn’t miss it as much as I thought I would. So i think next week will completely make up my mind. If Sam is the one doing the trials,I’m not sure even Jensen can hold my interest to continue watching.
I think with the way these writers seem to think, having Sam tell Dean what a great hunter he is, but in the meanwhile giving Sam the trials does what they are too lazy to do. It makes Sam look like he worries about Dean and thinks Dean is a great hunter but jeeez look, Dean couldn’t kill the hellbound but little bookwork Sam could and therefore is now destined to carry on the rest of the trials. It manages to actually once again sideline Dean and put Sam front and center, giving Sam the final destiny, again and giving Dean the chauffer job, again. This show has become so predictable when it comes to their idea of making Sam superspecial it can practically write itself.
I don’t know what to think of the rest of the season. After such a strong and promising start, this show is once again devolving into the same boring mire it got itself stuck in the past years. Isn’t there any PTBs who actually has the audacity to get away from the status quo? I fear not. Once again, Swan Song redux, as if the first one wasn’t bad enough.
Well it’s not like that’s never happened before. Look at all of season 6 and 7, where Dean just about froze in every circumstance so that Sam could swoop in and save the day.
Look at Swan Song. It seems to me that this show has no problem making Dean useless so that Sam can be the hero. Instead of being able to write both characters as being useful and active in the trials, they give it to the one that whines the most, which is Sam.
“I can see Sam using the fact that the failed Dean as a reason why he should do the trials and how Dean always protected him and now its his turn to protect Dean.’
Geez that sounds too much like SS. I couldn’t BARE another one of those. Sam is to inept to do something as difficult as trials. You have to have both brains and brawn to succeed and that leaves Sam out. I’m wondering if it’s Kevin. He does have the know how to read the language and I’m guessing that would be a necessity for these trials. And during the trials, even tho he wins, he is mortally wounded and dies. Maybe that’s how they get him off the series. He certainly won’t be in s9 and now the archive can decipher new tablets.
Only if there is a transcription by another prophet. Only a prophet can read them.
Guess I was thinking that as a language, the archive may have info on it. I’m guessing that while a prophet may be hardwired to read it, others could be taught.
Also I remember reading from one of your posts that you were not well and may need surgery? Hope you feel better soon?
I assume that there’s more to it than knowing the language. It’s possible that there are ancient transcriptions from earlier profits before the tablets were lost. After all sine knowledge was passed down through the ages like devils traps and wardings.
Always sick. Norovirus then cold currently. I need to go to Ent whenever my throat swells and nodes swell, both painful to boot. Then he will evaluate. I have the kind of tonsils that cause problems, so removal may allow my immune system to recoup.
Ooops forgot, Jim Michaels posted a Tweet with a pic of the title of 8.18. Called “Freaks and Geeks”now. Guess the “Apple Dumpling Gang” got the heave ho! Thank heavens!
https://twitter.com/search?q=thejimmichaels&src=tyah
Not a title that will be missed!
The press release for 8.16 is up.
GODS VS. ZOMBIES — Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) are stumped when they investigate a possible zombie case where an amnesiac man (guest star John Reardon) dies and then revives himself once a day. After the guy is attacked by the goddess Artemis [guest star Anna Von Hooft], Sam and Dean realize he’s not a zombie but instead a God, more specifically, Prometheus. Steve Boyum directed the episode written by Daniel Loflin (#816).
That’s about what we were told a few weeks ago, with the one addition that Artemis is in the story and that Prometheus is amnesiac.
So if Dean rescues him does that make him the son of a God like Hercules, or the son of god? A lot of pagan dieties I must say. Prometheus is cool too because he gave fire to man, and that role- teacher of forbidden knowledge – has been also given to fallen angels (grigori or watcher angels).
I’m not sure what will happen. With Sam become so human this season, it really only leaves Dean for the classic Greek hero role. I think a lot depends on how they treat the Greek gods. Are they still going the Pagan Gods Are Monsters route or will they show sympathetic (and, more importantly, recurring that don’t get killed off in one episode) pagan gods, for once?
Maybe I’ll like this episode better when I re-watch it. It wasn’t awful, but I think more than anything it showed Edlund has lost interest in the Winchesters. I didn’t find that it even came close to what I expect of Edlund.
For me, the brothers were action figures to the little Jewish guy. And this is the second time that a scared weakling stepped up to be a hero — Charlie being the first one. Maybe there were more this season, but I find myself not remembering most of the episodes.
Jensen was hot and Dean was pretty useless. I think he was supposed to provide the comedy, but I didn’t find much to smile at. Actually, I thought Sam was pretty useless, too. I guess the last scene was to show that Sam is invested in the MoL role.
And just an aside, I hated the music, and they’re using more and more of everything except classic rock.
I’ll watch it again tomorrow. Maybe I’ll like it better. It’s too early to tell yet, but from these episode synopsis’ I’m reading, and from this being the first episode after introducing a new mytharc, I’ve got an uneasy feeling about the direction Carver is taking.
Just to add: Dean in that red plaid shirt! Who else can make plaid look so good?
Dean in the robe was better!
I didn’t like the robe, the fine scotch, the music, or the implication of Bruce Wayne wealth. The bat cave was awesome upon first viewing, but by the end of the episode, I felt a whole shift in the tone of the show and that shift being away from the gritty, sleezy motel rooms, the back roads of America, and all that. I don’t think I’m going to like this hermetically sealed new tone vibe the bat cave is giving me.
And what is with the constant harping on ‘family,’ all season?
Personally, I could have used a lot *more* exploration of the Batcave before they jumped right back onto the road. Those motels have gotten pretty damned depressing over the years and it was time for a change. While it would be nice to go back to scary more, I’m really tired of the no-fun “Our lives are over at 30″ crap. If this gets the brothers into a healthier frame of mind about ageing while Hunting, I’m all for it.
They have been hammering the reluctant hero that tries to run away before finally picking up the mantle. The exceptions this seasons are tiger mama, Garth and Dean. Dean is the only one that actually knows what he’s doing. I think DEAN looks pretty darn special in comparison to Sam. Even last year he didn’t shirk his responsibility.
I agree with paula. This episode pretty much says Sam ain’t doing mo trials cuz books are his thang. And last. Episode pretty much said that Dean will not allow Sam to put himself in danger. Maybe the fight involves DEAN making a deal to get the hellhound to come.
Here is the promo for 8.14 “Trial and Error”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8rjOfpNmiA&feature=player_embedded
Ooops! Posted the wrong link. My bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oodAr8sP-uA&feature=player_embedded
Can’t tell for sure who does the trials, but it looks like Sam. Maybe they share them. (shrug)
I’ve noticed Edlund always seems to run out of creative energy when he’s writing episodes that dont’ focus on Dean or Cas. Blood Brothers rocked. This one? Not so much.
Dean could have stayed back and relaxed at the Batcave, for all the purpose he served. Sam was useless as a hunter but was okay because his researching the case, updating the archive, figuring out the location of the book, and playing exposition fairy has now elevated him to being a MAN OF LETTERS.As if Sam’s ego wasn’t huge enough already.
Even if Carver’s shiny new storyline does seem to have been pretty much invented for Sam, I hope to gosh there’s a plan to fit Dean in as well. It’d be freaking hypocritical for the writers to bill this as being the brothers’ legacy, only to exclude one of said brothers because he’s not the resident Special Snowflake with a Very Special Destiny.
Pointless episode as far as I’m concerned.
As Ginger said, the episode wasn’t bad, but if I didn’t know Edlund had written it, I never would have guessed. He said in an interview that he put more comedy in this one than some of his more recent past ones but I didn’t see it.
Sam was a pompous ass getting all wrapped up in his new title. Twitter is all a buzz over how Sam has found his place, being a Man of Letters and is so happy in his new home. They feel he has finally found his place as a hunter. OMG. You know if it meant he would NEVER go on a hunt with Dean again, I’d love it! But that will never happen.
I also saw Dean try and warn him that all might not be what it seems. Sam gave him the dirtiest look too. He hasn’t changed one iota. Anytime he doesn’t get his way, he’s a whinny butthead. I can see another big brotherly fight over it. And of course Dean will be right, but everyone will claim he is being a big meanie again to take Sam away from his title. Geez… even Aaron has more integrity that Sam. He hasn’t even been it is his whole life and he can see it’s importance. Sam will never learn
I didn’t like Aaron, saving the boys asses again. I really expected Dean to do something as last week that had him totally over-excessive in his aggression, but he just rolled around on the floor. And when Aaron and Sam were down, golem fixed the problem.
As they let Aaron and golem live, and they spent so much of the episode highlighting them, I’m guessing they will be back. And I did like them. That golem was so angry at Aaron for NOT following his heritage….wonder if that was a lesson for Sam.
Really thought the use of Hal Linden was pathetic. Really how many times have they has a great name actor and gave him only a few mins of air time. They get these big stars in and then people tune in to see him and if you blink you’d miss him. I can’t see how that does rating much good. But the special effects of the spontaneous combustion was good.
I did like the golem. I think I want to get me one.
Also Adam Rose (Aaron) tweeted that he got to hit on Jensen in the bar and it so not fair. He also said was the first scene they shot. How’s that for an intro to a main lead! Did think it was the funniest scene in the episode.
Don’t forget that the last fully initiated MOL gave Sam the coordinates with instructions to throw the key inside and lock the door. Sam effectively promised a blind man with no intention of going so because he knows best. Sure there is some good information, but probably dangerous too. And no one is alive that knows what is what. Pandora’s box could be there for all we know.
Don’t forget that the last fully initiated MOL gave Sam the coordinates with instructions to throw the key inside and lock the door. Sam effectively promised a blind man with no intention of going so because he knows best. Sure there is some good information, but probably dangerous too. And no one is alive that knows what is what. Pandora’s box could be there for all we know.
Also, he never told Dean what the old man said.
Well. I hated Dean as the buffoon this episode. However Elena, I don’t think Sam is special snowflake. Having been to university and wanting to go to school again, it makes sense that he would use the new resource as a generator for hunting rather than a resource to find the right kill stroke for monster A. Dean is smart but he is not inclined to use the archive in the same way or maintain it. If Sam were smart he would start an oral history project on the information in Dean’s head.
It was interesting that Sam stayed behind when Dean went to see kevin. Dean may do more fieldwork. Maybe he will train a new generation. I dream of a cure for Benny’s bloodlust if not one to reverse his vampirism. Dean + Benny = perfect hunting team.
An oral history project of what’s in Dean’s head — you made me laugh!
Would that have an NC-17 rating?
Definitely NC-17. I’d read it. I think I would find it quite educational!
I was thinking a cure for Benny could be there too. Really they can have anything they want in there. The archive could be Bobby’s replacement for knowledge. Course they couldn’t call it up and ask for a solution. But if they bring in Garth to stay there they can call him up for the info. For me I’d rather have Bobby than Garth.
“Dean + Benny = perfect hunting team”
If only the PTBs saw this and realized what great potential it has. I do fear the the next time we see Benny is to verify that Sam was right about not being able to trust him and Dean is forced to kill him, thus Sam once again gets his tit-for-tat.
I think they would be a perfect hunting team too. But honestly I’d be better id Benny stayed a vamp for that. He has more supernatural abilities that way. But vamp or not, he’d be better than Sambutt.
I’ll be in my corner mourning the death of the great American Road Story.
Do we think we have a set-up for Sam being corrupted again by power?
Or a set-up for having some episodes that feature one brother or the other?
The scene where Dean says he will take out the golem if it becomes necessary worries me. Castiel is doing Naomi ‘s bidding. Is this foreshadowing of Dean having to kill castiel?
Personally I think they’d have a riot on their hands if the permanently killed Cass. He’s just to popular. And no I don’t think Dean being willing to kill a golem, if he was dangerous, is comparable to killing Cass. Castiel is still a friend.
More to me he was telling Aaron that he was in charge not him and if he couldn’t keep his golem under control, Dean would do it for him. Remember, Dean saves lives and a renegade golem is a disaster waiting to happen.
I think that after you desecrate your grandfather’s legacy by using a book he gave you as rolling papers, it’s pretty clear that you are an irresponsible, disrespectful little toerag who gets *no* say in the solution of the ensuing disaster.
I absolutely hated Aaron for that. It was a disgusting thing to do and said all I needed to know about what he really thought of his poor grandfather.
I found the Winchesters’ in this episode to be cardboard cutouts of action figures; particularly in their interactions with the support characters, but with each other, too, while the support characters carried the episode once again. Edlund is a talented writer and can do very well with the Winchesters, if he has a mind to, but he didn’t in this episode. There was no characterization and nothing on their ‘relationship.’ It appears their little romp with Charlie at the Ren Fair fixed all. I was disappointed in Edlund’s script.
I imagine both brothers will do the trial — one as a decoy and one to make the kill. I don’t think the writers will give that to just one brother. Which leads me to wonder again what Dean’s story is.
Perhaps Dean is just going to be the action figure this season, and I wouldn’t mind that after the history with this show, but to throw in an episode like this where he is nothing but comedy relief and a complete contrast to the badass action figure we’ve seen all season isn’t something I’ve enjoyed.
Did you notice, though, Dean’s total understanding of Aaron using his grandfather’s book to roll Mary Jane. That was kind of a cute throw-in.
That too.
‘I think that after you desecrate your grandfather’s legacy by using a book he gave you as rolling papers, it’s pretty clear that you are an irresponsible, disrespectful little toerag who gets *no* say in the solution of the ensuing disaster.’
I agree it was a horrible thing to do but unfortunately, some people just don’t understand the significance (beyond the Golem, just the fact his grandfather gave it to him, should have been enough) of something at the time, his parents telling him his grandfather is crazy & keeping him away from him as much as possible, I’m sure didn’t help. However I respected the fact that he seemed upset w/himself for doing such a thing, & in the end he actually honored his grandfathers heritage, even realizing how dangerous, & life altering it was going to be. I had to give him credit for that.
The potential I think is definitely there, & it would be nice for it to be made undeniable to Sam this is HIS flaw & not extenuating circumstances, ie Dean you went to hell & left me alone, demon blood etc. not to mention w/MOL legacies could make for 1 heck of a storyline, however seems like that would take quite a bit of time & not sure I could wait that long for him to be redeemed. The more I think about it the way they have shown his character for 1st part of the season, in addition to his past, despicable gives him too much credit, its more like sorry excuse of a human being, & he NEEDS to make amends, & not just some lip service. Really curious as to how the next episode is going to play out.
As far as Cas goes I agree w/Cassieo I think the character has been shown to be too popular to get rid of him I know there has been arguements that he is too powerful & too hard to integrate him as a regular part of SPN verse, however w/the soul power thing, the show is looking at upgrading Dean & Sam, which tends to make me believe JC has obviously figured it out. Though I’m unsure why it would have ever been that difficult in the 1st place.
As far as Dean possibly having to take Cas out, the repercussions (beyond Cas character popularity)is almost unimagineable. Dean’s grief (though that word is seriously lacking for what he went through)in season 7 after losing Cas, & then Purgatory, has shown to me at least that Cas is Dean’s heart (romantic, brotherly whatever) Dean seriously goes off the rails when he feels he has completely lost Cas. So for Dean to have to actually kill him, would be inconceivable.
I absolutely agree with this! That said they seem to have replaced Sam done come back wrong with cas done comeback wrong Ans Dean’s fear about what he may have to do could be what’s keeping him silent on the subject. I think Dean would have killed SSam in 6 if he hadn’t resouled him. But yes Dean’s grief in 7 and his desperation in purgatory were both off the charts.
‘I think Dean would have killed SSam in 6 if he hadn’t resouled him.’ Without a doubt. Dean from what I can remember at least will give everything of himself & yes he has risked others, but will not actually seriously harm or kill others for Sam. Only exception I can think of was when Sam killed so many (innocent people posessed by demons)so Lucifer could take possession & Sam could ultimately do his swan dive. But that was to save the world not Sam.
Dean keeping quiet about Cas cause he’s worried about what he may have to do, makes a lot of sense. Have been really irritated w/how often they bring Garth up & not Cas. Though I don’t find him as annoying as a lot of others here. For instance when Dean mentioned him in ATGB I ust assumed it was because previous episode established Garth kept track of where Hunters were, & therefore would save Dean time since they figured Henry was going to go get more supplies for his spell & wanted to find nearest place Henry might go.
I happen to like Garth. I think qualls did a lot to round out the character despite the writing. Sure he is a different breed than the Winchesters, which makes his commitment all the more impressive. He chose to behave in the opposite way of Sam. After Bobby’s death he stepped in because there was work to be done. It’s heroic behavior and contrasts nicely with the decidedly unheroic decisions made by Sam, kevin, Charlie and Aaron. Garth wasn’t trained from the age of 4 to hunt, so I expect him to be on a sharp learning curve.
That said, I would expect to see Dean more affected by castiel, even if I can believe that he wouldn’t confide in Sam about his feelings. Despite their Newfound brotherhood, I doubt Dean trusts Sam on a deep level.
FYI. DJ Qualls tweeted this today.
“Also, to answer some questions, Legit isnt keeping me from doing Supernatural. When it makes sense story wise, I bet Garth will return.”
We know that, but the show doesn’t have to keep reminding me every damned episode. It’s not something I look forward to.
The Sneak Peek and CHCH promos for next week. Kevin is unconscious in one scene…or dead.
Clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWh90PySPLc&feature=player_embedded
CHCH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5YGPVckFMA&feature=player_embedded
I enjoyed this episode, certainly more than the last two, for sure. Dean seemed very laid back, unapologetic, his own person, and just coolly observing others, especially Sam. He gave me the impression of a man who knows exactly what he wants, who he is, and is content with it. I bet the Golem would have loved to be Dean’s golem if he could – there was a certain respect.
Sam didn’t really do much, but I am very happy that he is excited about the MoL Batcave, and is no longer talking about Amelia, or his sad life or the sacrifices he has made.
The Golem was a lot of fun and Aaron reminded me vaguely of Sam, but in an exaggerated way.
The Batcave is fiiiiine, and I love that they can do research here instead of at Bobby’s super special personal library. I noticed that Dean had just returned from a trip alone, and I hope more such trips are coming in the future.
Thanks for the links, cassieo.
Someone did a frame by frame look at the promos and by the way Sam is holding the knife and lying on the ground covered in blood goo, that it’s possible he kills the hellhound. If that’s the case, I’d be kind of surprised by the major back to back Sam pimpage, first with his made-to-fit library and now, this. I’d have thought they’d try to balance out Sam’s MoL scholar legacy with a strong Dean hunter episode. Turning the second half of the season into Sam’s Epic Story isn’t exactly going to make me rush to watch the show each week. But I know promos can be deceiving so I guess we’ll have to see how things play out.
I don’t think they’re going to give that one away before the episode airs, so I’m just going to assume anything in the promos is misleading (What’s with Dean and the goofy glasses? Do they show him hell hounds?).
I’m also not going to have any more respect for Sam if he does the trials than before because he’s been a total Timmy-in-Lassie the past few weeks.
I find the idea of Sam under attack below the hellhound with Dean decapitating from above believable, and a nice play on the roles he and Benny assumed in Fang. Whether Sam is told he’s bait is an interesting question. It would be the stupidest move to ignore that Dean just spent a year killing everything in purgatory, and that decapitation is always his thing.
I did a frame by frame of the preview too and Sam is on the ground with Ruby’s knife (why doesn’t he use Cas’ angel knife) And he is wearing the glasses so they must enable you to see the hellhound. in the continuation of that scene later on in the preview, Sam is rolling away from the goo dripping on him from above as Dean is shown behind Sam on the ground watching.
So both Dean and Sam go after the hellhound but Sambutt kills it with Ruby’s knife, if that is what is on top of him. And from the other attacks in the preview it is an animal that’s doing it.
Is you want to see the frames, let me know how to post them.
And how many times have the previews been utterly misleading in this season alone? In the past five episodes, even? Especially about whatever Sam does?
I could give numerous examples, you know. It’s also actually never been confirmed that the Spork can kill a hell hound, only angel swords and the Colt.
Many times Paula, but this is not a splicing effect. Whatever is dying on top of Sam either he is killing it or someone else it. It’s certainly not the badass Purgatory hunter. He’s on the floor behind Sam and not making an attempt to get up. Sam has the show the whole way!
Also just two episodes ago,LatRG, CW gave out the big bad in their preview promo. So it’s not like they don’t do really stupid things at times!
Also what do you mean by ‘Spork’? I thought the ‘Spork’ was the angel blade….like what Cas gave Sam in “Torn and Frayed”. Sam had Dean’s weapon, Ruby’s knife. And I calling that wrong?
And I didn’t know the Colt can kill hell-hounds. I’ve only seen them die when Ellen blew them up. And do they really bleed blood? Aren’t they invisible and not flesh and bone?
The Spork is Ruby’s knife. The Colt was shown to kill hell hounds in “Abandon All Hope.” Ellen didn’t kill the hell hounds when she blew them up. She only slowed them down.
You don’t know what’s going to happen on Wednesday. Nobody does because the episode hasn’t aired yet.
Thanks for the info on the spork and your right about the episode. We’ll find out next Wednesday.
Since the series came back from hiatus the focus has shifted to All About Sam. It’s like someone threw a switch. And the shift doesn’t jive well with the pre-hiatus episodes. It’s like they don’t sven remember what tge did in the first half of the season. It’s like there are two different seasons in one. The first 9 episodes had no payoff at all. Just died out in a few sentences of dialogue. After the 18th episode, will another switch be thrown and the season be all about Cass? Will there be any payoff to Sam’s episodes? Maybe Sam gets the rest if the season.
This is Sam’s time to shine, so I can see them sidelining Dean with the excuse that he’s afraid of hellhounds so Sambutt makes the extreme sacrifice and agrees to the trials.
How can they forget Dean’s year in Purgatory and that Sam isn’t even a hunter….certainly not like Dean? Why would anyone even think that Sam can do the trials? Why would they even bring up the possibility that Sam can do the trials? Really….who would even consider the possibility that Sam would even be considered for any trials? There is no consistancey or logic in the series at all.
I don’t really see things being All About Sam when Sam has turned into the Exposition Fairy, Village Idiot and Damsel in Distress.
Be honest–if it weren’t for Singer and Edlund’s interviews, would you *really* see the past few episodes as All About Sam?
Paula, I knew the series had shifted to All About Sam right after Dean apologized to Sam because he was jealous of Sam being able to have a normal live with his adulteress. And that was before the interviews.
Only we see Sam for what he it and that is a complete mystery to me. It’s almost like ESF are from another planet. Course so apparently are TPTB.
You and I must not be watching the same show. In the past three episodes I watched, I saw Dean get to buckle his swash and bond with Mary Sue Guest Star; bond with the brothers’ newly-found grandfathe, save his brother and kick a major new demon’s ass; and bond with a Golem while, once again, saving the day (at least once, if you choose not to count the scene toward the end when he practically hands Asshat Grandson the game plan).
What I saw Sam do–interview and act like a jackass toward perfectly nice women, get throttled by a suit of armor, make a stupid rookie move and get kidnapped, geek out over something he knows very little about and was warned to seal up, totally forget about Amelia Whatshername who was previously the love of his life that he chose over his brother, have to be rescued from the badass demon, do basic research to hunt up a case, have to get rescued again after doing something else really stupid. Help his brother shoot a Nazi.
The writers can Tell me all they want, but their Show is quite different.
Paula, I *totally* agree with you in how smart Dean is and how stupid Sam is. I personally can’t see how anyone can interprete anything else, but they do and those people are the ones TPTB listen too.
And if the writers mean to make Sam look like a butthead why claim anything else? Say how bad Sambutt is. Say Dean is a genius, say Sam is a despicable. But it never happens.
I haven’t seen any All-About-Sam this season at all. Not in the first group of episodes, and certainly not now. I could be looking at everything through rosy glasses, but the last three episodes have been as far away from All-About-Sam as it’s possible to get, in my opinion. I’m actually glad that Sam seems to be excited about the MoL and the archives now, as that will take care of the humongous Sam-shaped problem for the rest of the season, hopefully, instead of manufacturing something like Samelia and forcing us to watch, lol!
“, I mean his doing nasty things to people and then feeling no need for guilt or apology. What Sam needs is a redemption storyline not a shiny new playground. Any new story element involving Sam, whether it be a girlfriend or an underground “Batcave,” is going to founder if it doesn’t serve Sam learning to grow up, which involves (among other things) owning up to his mistakes and no longer being a selfish prat. The guy is 30 at this point and his behavior is beginning to look very narcissistic. There’s nothing nice about that.”
Paula, So Much This! Why can’t the PTBs even see this? It’s been since season 4 that Sam has gotten away with doing the cruelest things, especially to his brother, and yet has never apologized or made amends. Even this last time where he was indirectly responsible for Martin’s death and for destroying Benny’s life, he still gets to skate free, the whole thing forgotten and the writers harping on and on about the stupid unimportant text from Dean. How stupid do they feel the audience is? Because, really, that’s pretty insulting.
I also agree with Singer not connecting with the fans very well. It seems he uses the same excuses that Kripke did for why love interests don’t work. It’s not their crappy writing, the bad acting from both JP and the woman who played Amelia, or the soap opera script that was boring as all hell, oh no, it was that the female audience don’t like love interests. Yeah, right. I loved Carmen and Lisa for Dean, where are they now Singer?
Cripes these producers really do have their heads up their butts.
I really want to contribute to the discussion, but somehow I cannot find the right words atm.
But I loved this episode. Loved Cas being mentioned and I loved how you can see that Dean worries.
Could have done without all the Garth here and there.
Dean was adorable.
Hoping for if Dean won’t be completeing all 3 trials alone for a group effort and the brothers sharing. Sam would not for a second do those 3 trials. I mean just look at those tidbits of lines that were wthrown together.
Kevin: “I figured out how to close the Gates of Hell.”
[…]
Dean: “That is my perfect ending.”
[…]
Sam: “Closing the Gates… It’s a suicide mission.”
[…]
Dean: “We both know when this ends. One of us dies.”
To me this sounds like we’ll get to see reckless purgatory!Dean in action and a Sam, who really doesn’t want anybody to get hurt and goes with keeping the hellgates open.
I assume they won’t succeed with closing those gates anyway. Or at least not this episode. Something about Kevin’s translation could be wrong. I mean, the title after all is “Trial and Error”… Also, I can’t imagine they’d really close the gates of hell when there are still 9 episodes to come until the finale.
Also colour me interested in the dangers coming from inside the moL-headquarters that makes Dean consider blowing up the place.
Yep. Sam isn’t action hero man. My guess is it’s either a misunderstanding of what to do or a serious miscalculation as to what closing the gates means. Maybe everything opens for a time before permanent ly closing creating hell on earth. Can’t be a win.
I am glad Dean is wary because Sam has ignored the directions of a learned blind man. If this were a Greek tragedy that would be akin to signing his own death warrant.
Promo photos for 8.15, “Friend With Benefits”:
http://www.examiner.com/article/first-look-supernatural-s-dean-and-sam-get-touch-with-their-inner-witch
@FriendOfAFriend, I wonder if Dean is afraid of the bunker falling into the wrong hands. Even the brothers are untrained in the occult and could easily create a really bad situation by incorrectly using some of the spells/magical objects. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that “Benefits” deals with a ex-cop, someone who’d been sworn to protect and serve, who got in over his head when he started dabbling in witchcraft.
This is a pretty good idea. I am pretty sure that Dean is afraid of the bunker falling into the wrong hands. After all there would be Crowley and – of course only we know of her “existence” – Naomi. And both would most def be interested in the place and its secrets and knowledges. To me the bunker really is something like the ministry of magic, department of mysteries or order of the phoenic from Harry Potter.
I’m also wondering if whatever is powering the place is sinister.
Good point! I get this sad image of a trapped supernatural entity being forced to power the place … or one of those fee fairy deals.! But seriously, they have been hitting the monster/supernatural entity good, human bad and taking advantage. (You don’t suppose naomi is ash and he’s running heaven. A bit out of character perhaps?!!!! )
The fact that MOL ‘s insignia is that of aleister Crowley’s occult Masonic offshoot suggests the group is not squeaky clean. Aside from his tarot (he designed his own didn’t he), and his bisexual sexcapades often done under the guise of magic; Crowley is reputed to have been a dark magician using spells that called upon angels, fallen angels and demons. The blood Sigil magic Henry uses may have called upon an entity to aid in the spell, which maybe how he bypassed john for Sam and Dean in 2013. I imagine neither demon or angel can enter the library even with the key. Remember how Azazel used Jake to open the hellgate because he couldn’t get near it. So the key is given to the Winchesters and the last known MOL is killed before he can say anything specific about the library’s purpose or contents. Just please let Sam be Sam. If he’s really going to f up I want him to have no one to blame by himself.
I have no idea if the writers are smart enough to clue into this, but it does seem a bit odd that we have an episode right after this week’s that involves a Wiccan when some scholars of the history of the Occult believe Crowley partly inspired Gardnerian Wicca. Technically, one could look at the Men of Letters as witches of a sort,and this might explain the DEAN HATES WITCHES, OH NOES over-the-top tone of the official synopsis for 8.15. If Dean finds out he’s descended from a long line of witches, that could be a major conflict for him.
Regarding who does the trials, I am sticking to my version: Sam is on the ground below the beast and Dean takes its head. We have seen two beheading kills this season with Dean below and Benny decapitating. And we have seen Dean take out demons at least twice hat had incapacitated Dean. Paula is right. They will not give that away. And anyhow, it can be cut to look one way in a promo, and another in the episode. She is also right that promos and blurbs have been misleading this season. The promo in Fang surely showed Benny as the killer.
I don’t think they would be carefully emphasizing certain stories and plots for no good reason. They hammer the reluctant hero theme, or more accurately this season, the individial running from the responsibilities of their life before finding the strength to assume them. The fact that so many characters have this arc (kevin, Charlie, Aaron and Sam), all thoughtless and self absorbed to some degree, shows us this is a human arc and not a HEROIC arc. Sam finally took some responsibility for the family businessv by taking up the mantle that belonged to his grandfather, that of MOL. That is Sam”s purpose. He is taking Henry’s role, and not that of the heroic hunter.
If we look at one of the other two themes that are being hammered, we see that it clearly references castiel and Dean. This is Of course the supernatural being that the hero must free from its evil master (EHH, Larp, HH) or evil maker (BB, Bitten); and/or the possessed individual doing evil (Premier, Heartache, SC, Tiger momma). If castiel is the being under control, we know Dean is the hero that will free him without having Dean labeled as the titular Hunter Heroicus. Interestingly, that episode spelled out the parts of all three of the leads. Sam has been running from reality, castiel is being controlled for selfish, evil purpose, and Dean is the hunter heroicus.
It also tells us without a doubt that naomi is not good.
They have equally hammered the humans behaving monstrous and monsters behaving good/trying to hold on to their humanity. Not just in bitten and fang, also in larp and EHH. I think that this must extend beyond Benny at this point. Are they telling us Crowley isn’t really bad? Or is rhis emphasis in relation to Dean. Since Dean and Benny have been shown to be sympatico to the point that they don’t require words to communicate and shared a body, Is this a reoccurring hint that Dean was changed/will change to something other than human. Phoenix perhaps?
Finally am wondering how Meg fits in. In 5 she was shown as Lucifer’s handmaiden. In 6 she is killing Crowley’s hellhounds. In 7 she is cas’ nursemaid, after hallucifer made cas the only get out of jail card for Sam’s life. She’s another demon that might be more than they seem. As far as I can tell, the knights of hell suggests the possibility of corrupted fallen angels. Angels, as we have seen must stick to vessels for possession, whereas demonized humans can possess anyone in theory without wards. Then we have a small group of demons that are sentimental about their vessel including Crowley and Meg. In tiger momma Crowley admits he is in Mrs tran but not as powerful as in his preferred vessel. What?!!! That sounds like Lucifer in Nick or Michael in Adam. I am curious. Why no mention of Meg? Why did Meg shut down cas’ discussion of her thorny beauty which apparently he could see post hallucifer, when he was seeing in a way he had not before? Could naomi be Meg and is she still loyal to Lucifer.
I wish I had your optimism but in the promo at approx 11 seconds you see Sam lying on the ground with the knife and then at approx 14 seconds you see Sam with the knife and then the hellhound on top of him and the black goup suddenly spilling out. You can see Dean in the back without the glasses and holding himelf up with his hands. The way the scene is set up it clearly looks like (in my opinion of course) that Sam stabbed it. Dean doesn’t like he did anything to it.
As for not showing important stuff in promos they have done that before, many times. Revealing that Emma was Dean’s daughter was in the promo for Slice Girls, and in On The Head of a Pin the fact that Dean broke the first seal was in the promo.
Unless there is a twist (and I don’t think the writers are this creative) and that hell hound is not literal it seems like Sam will be the one doing the trials.
I think thats why we are all of a sudden hearing the “Sammy’s and little brothers” that Dean’s role is going to end up making sure Sam can see his toy solider so that it can inspire Sam to remember that in the latin alphabet jehovah begins with an I.
Since the promo also makes it a point that its a suicide mission and that one of them will be dead I’m guessing that Dean will have to also learn to let Sam go (again,even though he already has multiple times)
I just wish this ep was over and done with.
I am looking at this coming episode as the real crossroads in the show, especially since I think too much credit is being given to Dean’s role in this last episode.
Yes, Dean distanced himself from the MoLs and Sam clearly embraced it. But I didn’t see Dean being given credit by the Golem for having saved Aaron’s life. My closed caption had the Golem saying, “They saved your life,” not “HE saved your life.” And, although Dean did nod the plan to Aaron to make a move so he could get his gun, Sam and Dean each took one Nazi out and did the head shot on Eckhart together. For the most part, though, Dean played goofus in this episode for comedy relief.
We don’t know yet whether Dean has a story this season or not, but I think the show is at a crucial crossroads with this coming episode, and I still believe that crossroad is which brother or random support character does the upcoming tests.
As I see it, since Purgatory wasn’t a story, Dean’s relationship with Benny turned out to be a minor sub-plot, and Dean isn’t on-board with being a MoLs, if Dean is given the tests, that will be his role this season (the Campbell half of Team MOLs).
If Sam is given the tests, he becomes both the Campbell and Winchester side of the MoLs and Dean remains Sam’s action figure handmaiden and doesn’t have a story.
If Sam and Dean do the tests together, then Dean is shut out of the Campbell side of the MoLs and doesn’t have his own story. He remains Sam’s action figure handmaiden.
If a support character does the tests, then Sam remains a MoLs (the Winchester side), Dean remains Sam’s action figure handmaiden, and some reluctant hero steps up to save the day (the ‘reluctant hero’ theme being heavily played up this season).
I believe we will get a good indication of what the writers are thinking in the coming episode on Wednesday.
I know this is my cynicism showing, but the show has wholly earned that cynicism, and so far, Carver hasn’t shown me anything special to make that go away.
Okay, once more with feeling: DO YOU THINK WE COULD ACTUALLY WATCH THE DAMNED EPISODE *BEFORE* WE START BITCHING?
Speculation is just wondering how the episode or other parts of the season might go. Bitching is deciding beforehand that it’s gonna suck and then stating that speculation as fact. The former is fun. The latter is a downer. Call me goofy, but I’d *really* like a chance to watch the episode with an open mind and it’s really hard to do that with five zillion people on five zillion different boards telling me it’s going to suck and that I’m stupid to reserve judgement about an episode none of us has seen, yet.
Surely, there is a happy medium of discussion between I Am Kripke/Gamble/Carver’s Cult Zombie and Kill It With Fire. Let’s try to find it, shall we?
I agree with the content of the promos we have seen and that the CW people who put these together do reveal important stuff, but this is far from a crossroads episode. That was in 8.10 when we saw the Carver had cave and once again, let Sambutt off this hook. That was the episode that foreshadowed the rest of the season. Not this one, not for me anyway.
This episode is just the first test. There are two other ones yet, that we don’t even know about. I’m assuming they will be in two other episodes. At least I hope so. I’d hate to think they were cramming all three in to one.
Even if Sam kills the hell-hound, what makes you think Dean won’t be the one in the other two?
I’m really hoping someone else kills it on top of Sam, but even if it is him, Sam really SHOULD start stepping up to the plate. If we can’t get rid of him, then he should at least take some stress off of Dean. And I don’t think that would make Dean a hand-maiden at all. Dean has done enough for Sam. It’s Sam’s turn. And bout time too.
Besides Dean is still in charge and will eventually be the one to burst little brothers ego, when he burns the archive down. Sam, with his inflated opinion of the MoL would never be smart enough to see that necessity.
Anyway, that’s my stand. Only way I can watch the episode.
Yes, this. First, we know very little about the trials, aside from the necessity of killing a hell hound as one of them. Second, we don’t know how accurate that information is. Yes, Kevin translated it, but there’s always some kind of catch. Third, how do we know that’s a hell hound? The dead girl on the ground doesn’t look as though she was taken out by a hell hound.
Also, did anybody notice that Dean is walking onto the set of the Campbell Quonset Hut basement? Are they revisiting that site or is it being used as set for some other place (like the hold of Garth’s barge)?
And even if Sam does kill a hell hound, why assume that it will either fulfill the trial or trigger Special Snowflake Sam again? Why does Sam refer to hunting hell hounds as a “suicide mission”? It’s not as though they’ve never encountered and bested hell hounds in the past and they certainly have the tools to kill them. Why, if Sam’s the Big Damn Hero in the episode, is Dean the one who’s apparently kissing a CRD? Why even assume there’s only one hell hound? It could be possible that Dean got knocked down killing another hell hound and Sam is killing its companion.
If Sam does them he will fail because he’s not heaven’s champion. It’s poor writing to have set all of this foreshadowing up to toss it out. Yeah i know, ff’ing season 5 but that was most likely kripke grabbing the wheel and taking a hard right after manners was no longer involved. It would be asinine to throw out the good stuff they’ve planned because samelia flopped. They gave Sam a place that makes those fans dizzy with rapture. The only thing to redeem his character is for him to support dean for a change.
And they are possibly playing the pride card again for the character with this MOL, by having him know more than thevold blind Guy that dedicated his life… Henry had no idea what the key was for or what the MOL had in their possession. This is surely a set-up for something and it’s good to hear Dean is suspicious.
Sam has been such an inconsequential PIP this season … so what there was one episode where he knows the call number of a book that he found misplaced in an archive box. If he were smart, he would have immediately realized the library holding was switched with the archival reference. I keep reading how smart Sam was … but Dean without his college degree would have figured out the switch. It’s a classic move.
I am not sure why Dean was written so ladeedah and comical. Aaron and the golem as well as the black humor of warming hands over a corpse fire was better suited to the episode. The gay moment I get; and yes I think they are going there. Dean was so goofy. In a larp episode it makes sense. In an episode where they have opened an abandoned stronghold of a secret organization that was obliterated by a Knight of hell that apparently wanted access to said place… am confused. I don’t think it was done to herald a paradigm shift that Dean now places the fool, or is the hero’s handmaiden. Maybe it was done so that viewers would be complacent about the batcave (which I believe is the real focus around which the mytharc swings), and thus be WTF agog when the worm turns.
Sorry, if Dean could not fight off hellhounds in 3 or 5 except with the colt, how can I believe the Sam we have seen this season can do it? I simply can’t. Dean or Benny, they are a different story.
Okay. So I watched all the promos again.
Frame by frame. And I cannot for the life of me see that there is a corporal hellhound to be seen somewhere and I pretty much watched frame by frame. The shot of Sam on the ground clearly shows a person, possibly bleeding from their neck towering above him. Is it possible that people who are bitten by a hellhound somehow don’t die but also can be turned into something like a hellhound-werewolf?
Also, what the hell is Sam doing in that awkward family dinner I know not a single person from?
That family dinner is just bizarre. Could it be that the hell hound isn’t the actual MOTW, and that the glasses, bloody goo and weirdo family are all related to that rather than to the hell hound?
Could be. Would make more sense even. You know what would be cool but would never ever happen? If those glasses would show the the one who’s wearing it the perception and view of another person. That would make it possible for Sam to finally be able to feel and understand how his actions hurt Dean, because he would re-live them exactly? Never ever going to happen, but just had the crazy idea. Because this scene gives me major “Drak Side of the Moon” flashbacks with Sam’s thanksgiving family dinner and all. And it seems like in the episode Sam and Dean fight and butt heads just as much as in that episode in season 5…
I would really love it if those glasses have nothing to do with the hellhounds (though I assume what they are for) but with perception in general. After all we perceive mostly through our eyes paired with feeling.
Also, another thing that just occured to me.
Can we talk and speculate about another pretty heavily used close up in 8×13 as well though?
I mean… I am sure, I’m not the only one who noticed thouse close ups. And I’m pretty sure that I am not the only onw who thinks that something major might be revealed about that “sword-sign” on Eckhardt’s ring. Really, if this sign won’t pop up again sometime again this season I’d be VERY surprised. I mean… Why use so many close ups if it’s not important?
The first things that popped into my head when thinking about a “sword” have absolutely nothing to do with anything that was dealt with in that episode and therefore wouldn’t make sense in connection, I guess.
Anyway. They only things that popped up in my head when thinking about that “sword-sign” was:
- angel swords
and
- Dean being referred to as Michael’s “sword”.
Oh, and I just had another thought/idea. Maybe it has something to do with that sword that Dean was toying with in the beginning of the episode?
So, please guys, share ideas, specs, opinions!!!! I am very interested in hearing about all different kinds of ideas.
The idea of glasses that show true feelings or true nature would be fabulous, but I bet it’s too much to hope for.
Has anyone seen the Zero Hour pilot, yet? Damn, I sure don’t have time to review anything new, but I like Anthony Edwards and that was quite the cliffhanger.
Cigarette Burns was the best of the bunch I thought at the time.
Zero hour looks promising. I thought it starts next week, probably a conflict with supernatural. I am guessing … which means I couldn’t watch Dean in real time since I tape him.
Where can I find your TV piece which I missed.
It’s supposed to air Thursday at 8pm.
CB was definitely the best MoH episode.
You can find TV Lovecraft here:
http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com/blog/?p=12233
Maybe the glasses give angel vision so one sees the true nature of a being, like Meg’s thorny beauty. I think we are being blessed with a creative team that’s letting its horror geek out. I am trying to remember something with glasses. There’s camera based horror, and king’s classic where only smokers can see the alien overlords because of the nicotine … glasses … I feel it’s on the tip of my tongue… I hope there’s not a cabin in the woods aspect where donning the glasses effectively chooses which horror scenario you will face.
Could the lady in black be Meg’s new body?
Maybe th
Thanks! That really good SyFy miniseries about the hotel room with paradigm shifting artifacts had glasses. I am sure there’s some classic tale…
Well was Samuel colt MOL?
Maybe dean can ask their friendly ancient witch man played by marsters what he knows about the MOL.
The ring. Yes they showed close-ups. I guess I stupidly thought they did it so we would know it was the same Guy. Could it be important to raise the dead. The horsemen rings were necessary for them to do their mojo, and Dean was death when he wore that ring. Maybe the Guy won’t stay dead if he’s wearing the ring?
I always think of DEAN as Michael’s sword!
OMG!!!! According to wiki, the sword was a symbol of the word of God in the middle ages? Do the Thule have the human tablet, and therefore can ressurect. There were lots of German sponsored excavations between the wars. And the Thule society started out as the Study Group for German Antiquities. This is too cool to be ignored.
The other thing I learned from a blogger’s post, apparently Lebanon, Kansas is the center of the united states. Might be important to build ones secret occult fortress over something like that for major spellcasting mojo. Hmmm wonder if they’re over a hellgate or some such nexus of power.
So I am so intrigued now, and I wonder how the earlier episodes will tie into this new mytharc, besides the fact that people are freaky, especially witches. Okay, magic appear in premier (dean’s resurrection mojo, demon phone cup and warding symbols), tiger mama (warding), heartache (Mayan blood magic), slice (never trust a witch, demon bomb,warding), torn and frayed (warding, demon bomb), larp (baltar’s book and fairy magic), time (Henry’s spell), EHH (Jewish mysticism, necromancy).
So the show has shown magic since demons were introduced since wardings are spells, writing the symbol correctly evokes the magic. The source of magic is the written word. I am curious if the source of wardings is traced back to MOL, and ultimately to angels, since like Prometheus there were angels that taught men things they weren’t supposed to know.
The only magic they learned without books is the angel banishment sigils which Dean picked up from castiel, as well as angel warding sigils.
It’s interesting because we have seen them use this stuff for so long to save lives we forget that it’s powerful magic.
One more interesting fact. Crowley liked the aquarian symbol because it enables one to draw the six pointed star with one continuous line. It makes the symbol very powerful.
I assumed the closeups of the rings were to show that the Thule would return as baddies down the road.
I don’t think the rings help the Thule if they are burned. The leader made a reference to his underling in the library’s ghost having been sent packing by the salting-and-burning, and commented that whoever had eliminated him knew their business.
I don’t know that the sword is a medieval symbol of the Word of God (though I’ve heard that medieval women holding books usually is a reference to the Word of God, rather than female literacy). I think it’s more likely that it is a reference to the terrifying description of Christ from Revelation, in which he has a sword coming out of his mouth. If you google “Christ” “sword” “mouth” under Images, you will find several medieval representations of that passage.
Yes, I’ve heard that about the hexagon. An unbroken line can be important in containing magical power.
What they choose to do with this regarding Dean, I don’t know. But I think it’s too early to say they will sideline him. Dean came back different and, if you think back to previous seasons’ Sam Done Come Back Wrong plots, Sam always seemed relatively normal in the first half. So, just because they’ve been low-key about Dean’s difference (while not letting it go), doesn’t mean they’ll stay low-key all season. And while, yes, no spoilers for Dean hasn’t always meant something big, Sam’s Come Back Wrong plots usually had few spoilers, too.
I hope your operation goes well.
Weird. I haven’t watched them all because I want to enjoy my life until Wednesday. I assumed the black leather chick that Dean doesn’t look very happy about kissing was a crd, but maybe kevin shows up in the middle of a motw. Or maybe another secret society?
Regarding the batcave, I keep thinking that they have some poor angel locked down there, but that’s probably because there was a pretty scary MoH episode? with a lost film of an angel being tortured. At least I think that’s where I picked up the idea.
We saw Henry do a powerful spell and he was bad at spells. He was also clueless since he wasn’t initiated. Lord knows what stuff Sam could get into ; nice symmetry since Ruby was a witch. I still shiver at Sam being cool with virgin sacrifice in JIB because he could see the benefit to him. Anybody that pursues knowledgepower, serves knowledge/power, dedicates their life to knowledge/power isn’t necessarily doing good. I prefer my men to hunt things because they want to save people. The fact that saving people doesn’t do it for sam- that he needs personal benefit is a red flag. Now he is told he’s special and he feels better than Dean because he sees himself as the scholar, making it his prize.
I think the magic element has to come out. They have two characters named after aleister Crowley. Even a cursory knowledge includes bad juju magic associations.
I remain intrigued that Samuel hated john for mary. It makes sense that the Campbells, a secretive group of “elite” hunters with oodles of unique information amassed over centuries, would have been associated with the MOL. Samuel may have known things about them, was suspicious of witchery regardless of the benefits his family received from the association, or knew that Henry Winchester disappeared the night the group was slaughtered.
It is interesting there will be an episode where a cop embraces magic to better do good and it goes awry.
The golem, hitler musical bit was in creeperama I think.
“Cigarette Burns,” yeah. I mentioned that one in the TV Lovecraft article. And yeah, I thought of that, too!
Ah that sword Christ mouth imagery could easily be confused as the sword being his word. I hadn’t heard that one either but it was featured on the wiki, meaning of sword symbol entry, and boy did it tie into the word of God.
I have no clue how Dean figures either, but it is encouraging that Carver is massaging Canon where there are gaps. Just picking up on the soul business is impressive. Which makes me think he definitely watched 6. So no mention of Dean and fairies or Dean and vampires us weird. The man should have least commiserated with Garth about nuking Tinkerbell. So, I will hold on until the series finale expecting a payoff for some of Dean’s life experiences and accolades.
Nothing can be worse than Dean not being righteous any longer. His bone is plenty good enough for me!
I am off to bed. I took a ridiculously long nap today and couldn’t sleep. Plus I am back with my special monkey (diet coke). Need to go cold Turkey again.
Surgery not sure thing. I need to go in when my throat and nodes are swollen and painful which I haven’t done. Then the Ent will decide. He says the nodes swell only because something is going on throat-wise. Tonsils are cryptic which makes them the likely culprit. It would be nice not to get sick every two weeks from that, since I am still a walking petri dish. Maybe then I could regroup. It makes sense too… I had chronic reactivated mono for 5 years and chronic sinusitis for 7 years. Both will give you sinuses full of crypts!
I enjoyed the Lovecraftian television piece, having seen everything but Dr Who and The King piece.
I found Cigarette Burns to be very unsettling. Dream house was meh. MoH disappointing and uneven in general with very few having truely horrific moments. I own it and should rewatch it.
I watched Dark Side in the late 80′s and that episode is one that I remember very well. I was terrified by the original Don’t Be Afraid of the Dark as a Child, and I think that my fear from that contributed to the horror for me. Overall, I have great memories of this series. Yes the opening still gives me chills.
I frequently watch Night Gallery and Twilight Zone so all of those episodes are fresh in my memory. The comic bits on Night Gallery are so cheesy. There is a silly Lovecraft riff with Carl Reiner that might amuse you. Nothing serious, just name dropping and gratuitous tentacles. I
I am quite fond of a lot of King’s short fiction including the story you mentioned which scared me. I think Crouch End and Mrs. Todd’s Shortcut are effective Lovecraftian tales as well. I find his take on the mundane frightening- the story about the toy monkey really creeped me out.
B5- The shadows were so visually disturbing and convincingly “other”.
It’s a pity that so few horror shows are scary. The X-Files sometimes nailed it, although their traditional horror episodes were usually comedic. One season X-Files and Millennium were running complementary arcs that were outstanding. I remember the X-Files did an episode on nephalim and Millennium on Mary Magdalen. At the time they blew me away. Then Millennium killed their two best characters off. I adore Lance Henriksen (his performance makes Pumpkinhead extraordinary) but the two female characters that died were outstanding.
I received AHS as a gift so I reckon I will try that.
It would be wonderful if Supernatural is tipping back towards the horrific. The special effects guys must be bored.
Okay I remembered one horror /glasses connection – the thirteen ghosts remake. The glasses enabled the wearer to see ghosts. There was occult ritual connection too in the film, and ironically literally ghosts placed in the machine. I think the original castle flick had glasses too, but it’s been soon long since I saw it.
The more I think on it, adding this occult layer to the show is a perfect way to utilize some of Dean’s specialness. Drinking special substances would be part of a special ritual.
Who’s to say the cure for vampism was truly a cure? I assume that this came from the MOL and was originally from a monster tablet. Maybe the cure was supposed to remove the downside but leave the upside, and Dean has been fundamentally altered by that and/or the ash, and/or by Eve’s bite. It just seems that the bad human, good monster trope must apply to more than Benny, and we are going to see something wrong with Dean big-time, once specific conditions are met completing the ritual. Or something happens plot-wise for us to go aha….
How in the h… did a human survive purgatory? Obviously he was human enough to get out but… Benny did tell us he was human enough to slip out with Dean. Kind of weird info to just throw out. That starting out human was good enough. Maybe the real trigger was that Dean was mostly human or once human and ALIVE. After all monsters belong on earth when they are alive.
Crazy right?
Is there a sword looking symbol highlighted in the opening credits? I seem to remember a swordfish symbol floating out from the tablet.
Good catch. In the original version, the glasses were a gimmick. The theaters handed them out to moviegoers and you could see the ghosts (thanks to a dual-color technique in the film) when you put the glasses on.
I think the “sword” symbol you’re referring to is the Tau cross (also known as the Ankh cross) in the last ‘a’: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_symb.htm
Something to keep in mind with the sword is that much has been made (though it’s possible more has been made in 19th century medieval revival and vampire films than the actual Middle Ages) of the sword, grip and crossguard looking an awful lot like a cross.
You would think that the show would have made more of Dean’s time in Purgatory and how, by simple story logic, it *had* to have altered him in some fundamental way. And they may yet do so. But they’ve frequently been hampered by a particular blind spot that goes back to the very beginning–which is that Dean, despite being the Face of the Supernatural World on the show since his entrance in the Pilot. Kripke struggled with the idea of whether the brothers were Heroes or Superheroes for quite a while. In one interview, he would claim they were just two blue-collar guys hunting ghosts. In another, he’d refer to them as superheroes, never twigging that those two things don’t go together, that they are really opposites. Eventually, he gave in to the lure of Teh Shiny Powers ™ for Sam, so that we’ve had every last sneeze and kerfuffle for Sam blown up into some fundamental supernatural event. Meanwhile, as if to overcompensate for this paradox, Kripke and Gamble (and, really, Singer, too) almost hysterically insisted on Dean’s normality through a series of events that would have given supernatural significance to a hunk of road tar, let alone a character in a story. And the big irony was that Dean ended up changed on a much more fundamental level than Sam.
The wild card here is what Carver will do about it. What I find interesting is that Carver is delving into the current revival of millennial and Occult themes on TV and is making Dean both his most Occult character and his most skeptical one.
I really think we already know where Carver is going with the show. I’m sure there are some that will disagree with me, but we have already seen how Sam is not going to change. And how Dean once again was written to take all the blame. That is one of the big problems that everyone hoped Carver would fix.
The second thing is writing the show so that when one brother is highlighted the other is not degraded. He hasn’t done that either. If he would change the way the brothers are R
depicted, no one would care which brother did the trials cause both are equal portrayed. He, like his predecessors, can’t highlight Sam with out degrading Dean.
Why did Dean have to be the only one to apologize? Why did he have to say he was jealous and Sam say nothing. That one sidedness is why fans are always at each others throats.
Now we have the introduction of the MoL and it has already been assumed that Sam has the intelligence and Dean a dumb fart hunter that MoL look down on and considered apes. Sam in as far from the Winchester line as he can get. He is certainly no where as heroic as his brother and father nor like the Campbell family. Yet Carver automatically throws that Sam’s way. Why? Dean has been written with more smarts than Sam has ever shown.
Maybe it’s from EK sending Sam to college and Dean they don’t even have graduating high school. And Carver is doing the same.
I don’t know what will happen next week, but if Dean is highlighted, Sam will be given a other lame excuse for being inept. And if Sam is highlighted it will be done to make Dean look inferior.
If Carver *really* knew the problems of the series, those two things he would have fixed from the beginning. It was only the first part of this season that I could tune it and know that Dean would be treated like a person not Sam’s diaper boy.
Now, I don’t care what this week’s episode is about, Sam will be right and Dean wrong. It doesn’t give Dean-fans much to look forward too.
If Sam is supposed to be portrayed as the smart one, why has he been portrayed as too stupid to live for the past three episodes?
I am very skeptical that Stupid Dean is the real intended message when he’s having to rescue Village Idiot Sammy every five minutes. And it remains that Dean having to apologize or Sam geeking out over books are entirely side issues to which lead character will end up driving the mytharc for the next few seasons. I’m not even sure why people are bothering to bring these things up when discussing which brother (if only one brother will end up doing that again) will end up the center of the mytharc this time. Which is the real question here, isn’t it? Dean can apologize to Sam because he’s become convinced Sam is an unstable child who needs to be controlled with flattery, when one works with him at all, and still become the center of the mytharc.
I am also very skeptical that this week’s episode will magically clear things up in that regard, seeing as how we have been promised a few times this season that such a revelation would occur and got no such thing.
Carver had said it will take all season to get everything set up the way he wants it. I think Sam’s character is probably the most difficult aspect of his transformation. Dean has changed with every experience, especially purgatory. Whatever else it’s done, it’s given him mental clarity about what’s important to him and well deserved confidence in his abilities. We have seen this in his decisiveness, a welcome change from last season, and in his maturity. In the purgatory torture scenes we see how well he reads the monsters that he’s interrogating, quickly decided whether it’s worth his time to keep them alive any longer. He’s always had phenomenal spidey sense regarding the hunt; he’s applying it to his relationships as well. His interactions with castiel and Benny have been mature and honest. Dean knows he can be himself with both.
He also doesn’t second guess his behavior. Sure he apologized to Sam for the text. He also told Sam that his actions were also at fault. Dean hasn’t back tracked in that. The conversation with Charlie, the way Dean behaved … I got the feeling that he would surely send the text again; no regrets there. I read his demeanor there along the lines of: “what’s new with me? You know me, I ruined Sam’s life again. Same old thing.”
Sam of course was Sam yet somehow more horrible than ever. We saw that he was playing at normal, and the fact that he finally gave up the charade and the sulking IS a pretty big deal. Something will need to shake him up before he becomes half the man Dean is. I wonder if castiel/destiel will be the mechanism for Sam realizing his brother is human and worthy of compassion. I have no idea what will motivate Sam to show his brother respect. Maybe finally being at peace with himself will accomplish that.
What I am trying to say is that 7 years of stagnation cannot realistically be undone in a handfull or two of episodes in which the character has done nothing but mope, daydream, pout, whine and flip his hair.
I am not sure why we had to have more samelia episodes than purgatory, except that Dean was busy doing important things whilst Sam’s mind wandered through the sticky, vaseline coated corridors of his self absorbed, stuck-up mind. It did hammer in how boring and human his year had been. As stated in the premier, Sam is the same; Dean is not.
Re: Dean changing- he is different than EK/SG Dean definitely. But not different that Manners’ Dean. JA has said this himself. This Dean is the pre-s4 Dean that made the show and why people fell in love w/SPN to begin with.
As far as Carver needing a whole season to right the wrongs…..poppy cock! That is just more stalling Language he uses just like Michales. He needed only 1 scene to change Sam. When Dean came out with his apology, he should immeadiately has Sam start with his……all if it……from Ruby ( w/I blaming Dean this time) to his loathsome hatred of Benny . He should have even said he would like to be Benny’s friend and went with Dean when Benny called Dean for help. Carver didn’t do that. In fact he was worse than that, he had Dean break one of his cardinal rules and abandon Benny all for a self-centered, spoiled brat of a brother.
So, no thanks, I really don’t want to give Carver and more time. He had chosen his path on the series and he is not doing anything differently than the past two.
The symbol I am thinking of pops out on the proper right side of the TV screen at the SUP portion of the word. I s… at freezing with our dvr.
I still think there might be a classic or Neo classic (ligotti?) Horror tale with glasses, but my brain is not complying.
Regarding how Dean’s arcs have been framed historically : that was THEN, this is NOW (I hope!). They have stressed that this season Sam has the human story. Dean was obviously framed as a motw (BAMFmots) in the premier. And the reunion of the brothers evoked the series pilot with their roles switched, as well as it being day not night… and we have Sam not trusting Dean and the show making an issue of it… has that ever happened?
I am also pleased that Carver seems willing to reframe the past seasons. Establishing the MOL, a human organization presumably, gives Sam his arc. And since we have repeatedly seen humans behaving badly this season, he may keep that trait. In fact he has already been very bad.
So I doubt it will be everything I can vision, which would likely be ridiculous and require bad logic. I would love to see him connect some of the lost Dean plots to now. I would not expect him to throw Sam’s arcs to the wind either, since that is just bad writing. I still hope that Sam will finally apologize and become a better brother. I think that Dean’s possessed rant in SC gives great hope because the word ‘choice” was thrown in. Choice implies that Sam was not the passive recipient of bad luck. d
‘Regarding how Dean’s arcs have been framed historically : that was THEN, this is NOW (I hope!).’ The past is hard to forget isn’t it. Especially w/them seeming to have the brothers relationship improving w/no real effort on Sam’s part. Which made me start thinking about how they’ve handled the brothers emotional seperations in the past. Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems like Sam does apologize to Dean re: his mistakes such as Ruby while he actually places the blame on Deanl. Paraphrasing here but didn’t he say something along the lines of if you had treated me like an adult Ruby never would have happened. Dean – “You saying this is my fault?” Sam – “Of course not I did this, but things have to change, or it’ll happen again” (or something along those lines, conversation has stuck w/me cause it always disturbed me how manipulative Sam was, he knew how Dean had such a strong tendancy to blame himself for Sam’s bad decisions, & that statement put the nail in the coffin.) The conversation they had re: Sam doing the swan dive (paraphrasing again – you, CaStiel, Bobby any of you would be better doing this, but we’re stuck w/me. Dean comes to his defense & feels apologetic for Sam’s feeling that way , another well placed manipulation to get his way. One would definitely argue it was to do the right thing as far as saving the world, which is true, however it still highlights how Sam manipulates to get the outcome he wishes by saying he has to make it right. And in season 6 with him handling a case from when he was soulless, saying how he did something wrong & needed to atone. Even though he knew how Dean felt about it & they could have another Hunter handle it. My point is (even though I took forever to get to it) Sam is not using his manipulation skill set in the same manner. His attitude has been pretty much I didn’t look for you, & I really don’t want you around, has not apologized in any kind of fashion & yet when Dean walks away, he doesn’t seem to like it much. Therefore, even though in the past when Dean has been sidelined, & there are definitely some similarities, this is a major factor missing for me I don’t see Sam heading for the hero arc againl. So even though we’re hearing Sammy all of a sudden (w/all that indicates)(hopefully you are right & that is just basically having family & the past being brought up)As I believe you said Dean still seems to be avoiding Sam as much as he can, & no I don’t believe he trusts Sam at all either. So along w/this, brought in a new show runner, the fact they spent so much $ on a new set (MOL base), they have kept Dean the 1 in charge, smart & strong, I have seen no real decline in that area. Sam has been pretty useless, seems like in the past he at leastheld his own for the most part. Definitely not seeing that now. Add to that its in its 8th season, changes have to be in the works, so as anxious as I am about Dean not getting a story line again, or the brothers being brought back together w/out an honest settling of grievances. Logically that wouldn’t make sense, right?
RE: Garth, yes his behavior is quite admireable as far as helping the other Hunters etc., I am really ok w/how eccentric? he is after all he has never had to deal w/all the Winchesters have, but I still have a problem w/him telling Dean, not sure of the wording, that he has Sam & isn’t that grand. Even though he heard everything Dean said to Sam about what he had done. If he was going to say anything at all, it should have been along the lines of you guys need to talk & get things worked out. Tired of Dean basically being told things are the way they are w/Sam consider yourself lucky. Ah NO, lucky is the last thing I would consider Dean’s relationship w/Sam.
In short this is a new era & we will see something different, or what was the point.
I certainly get long winded when I respond to your posts. Need to learn to get to the point a little faster. Typing skills are definitely improving however.
Good insight regarding Sam and changes in his behavior. I find I often lack insight for him. He did try to manipulate Dean regarding Benny I think, and Dean walked out on him. Sam returned but spent the better part of larp pouting. Baby steps I guess. Hope!
Do you have any thoughts as to why Sam hates Benny so much? He seems jealous to me, well before Dean compared him unfavorably.
I know. Everyone but me hated Garth for that. I sense his heart is in the right place. He likes Dean and considers them friends. They have a rapport and can communicate. Sam put up a wall with Garth and is derisive every time he’s mentioned. Dean may act like he has PMS (Bobby’s infamous words NOT mine), but Garth gets him, respects him and likes him. And for whatever reason was trying to fill the father figure role that Bobby had with Dean. Garth’s advice was delivered more kindly than Bobby’s usually was. Dean also opened the door by asking him how he avoided possession by the spectre. “Let things go” mote or less. He was also right in that Sam is the only brother he has.
I know it irks that Sam doesn’t get this treatment. I think Garth knew Sam wouldn’t listen. Dean was possessed in that scene but Sam almost seemed angrier. Of course Garth isn’t the writers. Dragging it out might make narrative sense but it is creating a Forrest/trees scenario for most fans, regardless of whether they thrive on the (dysfunctional) brotherly bond, or abhor it because the relationship is toxic and abusive to Dean.
I think it will take something dramatic to knock sense into Sam; it takes time to set that up. Of course, I am not a writer so what do I know. Everyone here will tell you I have the thickest Dean goggles around and will stubbornly cling to my “logic” until the bitter end.
Why does Sam hate Benny?
Hopefully you’ll be able to make some sense out of this cuz, though I’ve thought about that myself I’m having a difficult time coming up w/any real conclusions, 1 of the main reasons being because like you said, the hate started before Dean spoke of him in a positive light.
- 1.Dean left him alone when Benny called & asked for help (no he didn’t know what was going on yet, but think thats where it started) Has Dean ever left Sam behind for someone else before? 2. When they spoke on the phone Dean was hunting w/out Sam & then found out he was w/a friend. “What friend all your friends are dead Dean” Is Dean not allowed a friend outside of & unknown to Sam? 3. Sam seemed genuinely terrifed something would happen to Dean while on way to meet him. Sam needs Dean would like to say love, but yet to see anything outside of need this season so won’t say it yet, Sam resents Dean for that.
4. Waiting for this unknown friend & then realizing he’s supernatural. Unless Sam believes otherwise (reasons always seem to be concerning him for whatever reason)Supernatural means monster. Hence his yelling at Dean that Dean has told him you always kill the monster in whatever episode the Amazons were in. To Dean monster is not if your human, or supernatural it is the deeds you perform. Which is why he killed Amy & let her son live (because he had NOT killed) That is also why he was trying to talk down his daughter (was it Emma? not sure) & Sam just burst in & took matters out of Dean’s hands, even though he had it well under control. Another significant event that should be addressed. 5. So Dean is not suppose to have friends outside of or not connected to Sam, & they certainly better not be supernatural.exception being Cas.
After that it gets a lot easier.
- its apparent Dean is fond of Benny (a monster)while he shows Sam mostly anger, & disappointment
- Sam is resentful Dean is back, Benny got him out
- Dean has changed, in many ways however the biggest 1 for Sam is Dean calling him on his crap on a regular basis vs. once reaches breaking point telling him off kicking his butt & letting it drop. Sam is not a fan of this Dean, who keeps reminding him of his mistakes. I LIKE this Dean & miss him the last 3 episodes very much. Hope to see him again real soon.
- A Monster (though I’m not sure it matters what Benny is in this instance, though I’m sure it makes it sting just a little bit more that he is) saved Dean, while Sam hit a dog, played house & NEVER even looked for Dean. We all know what Dean thought of that, & not sure how they can deal w/that satisfactory. OK both agreed not to look for the other if something happened. Forgetting the fact neither has followed that line of thinking before. Your hunting a ghost together in a house. 1 toasts the ghost. He calls for his partner, there’s no answer, so he just leaves. Give me a break, you take some time to see if you can find them. What did Sam do just walk out of the building & say hey I can do whatever I want now Dean’s gone? Thats pretty much how it sounds. I’m sure Dean didn’t expect him to search the entire year, but you do give it some time before you throw the towel in. According to Sam there was no such attempt. And if there was & he just didn’t say antything, not sure that doesn’t make it worse when he saw how much it hurt Dean.
Anyway thats all I can think of right now, probably more, but brain has finally shut down.
‘Something dramatic to knock sense into Sam’ Completely agree & was somewhat patiently awaiting Sam’s turnaround until show started to seem like everything was going back to normal, that’s just not going to work for me. They’ve gone so beyond manipulative, despicable Sam to worthless human being Sam, that I can hardly handle watching him & would skip over him if I could. At 1st I thought wanted him to actually become a good guy, treat Dean right etc. But you know what I’ve decided I’d be more than fine with it if they decided to have him go the bad guy route, if he actually owned his character. Do I believe they would do it, NO I do think it would make a great story though.
Enjoyed posting back & forth with you. (is that what its even called?) But believe I can finally go to sleep, I’m going to say Good Night/Good Morning, at this hour, unsure what to call it. Perhaps Sleep well works better – Feel Better.
Yes. That’s exactly what I see. Would only add that Sam abandoned Amelia, and of course both martin and Dean in Fang. He appears to have absolutely no sense of responsibility either.
http://all-spn.tumblr.com/post/42834849898/supernatural-8×14-spoilers
Just saying it again. If it’s not Dean doing the trials I will seriously consider not just putting my fist through a wall but my head as well.
If the writers honestly think that fans are not sick and tired of Sampain that lets Sam off the hook, I think they are in for a rude surprise.
At any rate, I’m not going to rant until I’ve seen the episode. But I will say that I will be ten times as unsympathetic and snarky about Sam getting nosebleeds as I already am about whiny Kevin, should that happen.
Me too, Paula, me too. But you mentioning Kevin actually makes me think about Kevin. He had nosebleeds, was throwing up and felt just in general horrible… So… Maybe Kevin has to complete those trials…
Certainly does give the impression of Sam being the Chose One again doesn’t it. Whats with the nosebleeds & T symptoms though? That sounds more like punishment then, trials that need to be accomplished, & if so, punishment for what exactly?
‘If the writers honestly think that fans are not sick and tired of Sampain that lets Sam off the hook, I think they are in for a rude surprise.’
Agree wholeheartedly, still can’t see why they have made all these changes for Season 8 just to tell the same story yet again. So I guess we’ll see what happens.
There is 1 thing that keeps coming to mind, however I doubt if it actually means anything. Past experience of my observations tells me NO. BUT a human has to complete the trials correct. There has been plenty of hints that Dean isn’t strictly human any more. Even though humans were supposedly the only ones that could get out of Purgatory this still sticks w/me. I mean how could he be w/being vamped, ingesting Phoenix blood, visiting & escaping Faerie Land, Hell, Heaven, Purgatory. His relationship w/the supernatural on the whole. Common sense says NO there should be changes, but nothing has really been done w/it. At least not yet.
1 other thing, in my opinion, I can see Sam having more of a connection w/hell arc because Dean’s connection is w/heaven. Only problem is they’ve put that all on hold, & having Dean hold Sam’s hand again is not a story I have the least bit of interest in.
While I can see your points about Dean not being all human, by the same token, neither is Sam with the demon blood and all.
But I missed where the trials have to be done by a human. If so, then Singer definitely set it up for Sam right at the beginning with his inane comment about Sam being the more human and sensitive one. WTF show is he watching?
As one who totally believes that Carver caved and the show has reverted back to Samnatural, I will join you in making fun of Sam, who couldn’t be bothered to look for Dean, or Kevin or save anyone, but now, of course, he will be playing the Martyr with a capital M. Of course Sam will realize, in his self-absorbed way, that when Dean finds out he will be all worried about Sam and Sam will get what he wants, total and complete attention. Dean? He’s there to serve the special snowflake.
I can’t believe that the show will once again retell everything it has told already in the past 7 seasons and we’re supposed to cheer. What a disappointment.
While yes, it’s best to wait and see, at this point, I’m not going to bother watching. I will read about it the next day and won’t be surprised if the show was as predictable as it’s been so far where Sam is concerned. Dean Who?
Is it just me or does anyone else feel like
The first 10 episodes were gritty, layered, more mature. Samelia was horrible and Ssm was an ass but it seemed like Carver had a plan for bringing both brothers to a more mature place.
Then, suddenly, it’s as if the show banked a hard left, fell down the rabbit hole and landed in season 1. The episodes are fluffier, less sophisticated and with a lot of fan pandering. Dean’s character has regressed back to his original factory settings- blaming himself for Sam’s life, worrying all about “Sammy’s” happiness, being willing to sacrifice anyone/anything for Sam’s sake, not caring if Sam stomps all over his head. And now it seems as if Sam once again has both a destiny and is the Chosen One, driven by revenge. It’s too bizarre.
And yes, Paula, I agree. I absolutely think the writers are turning Sam back into a Special Snowflake as part of the annual whitewashing campaign. Just like I suspect Sam will give some bullshit speech to Dean in this week’s Very Special Scene that’ll supposedly prove beyond a doubt Sam’s epic love for his brother. Sometimes I wonder if these writers/producers interact with actual human beings- I can’t imagine they’d be okay with anyone treating them the way they allow Sam to treat Dean.
It’s sounding as if “Trial” will be pivotal not only for setting the future direction of this season but also for many fans in deciding whether to continue on with the show. There are a lot of frutrated, angry online fans this morning. If Carver has any Dean spoilers he’d like to share, now would be a really good time….
whoops, looks like I didn’t finish my first sentence. Dang, I need some coffee!
I meant to say “Does anyone else feel as if we finished Season 8 with “Torn” and now we’ve moved onto a different season but they just forgot to tell us?”
I do. I feel they started out interesting, and then the season ended and they are back to the same stories. It’s so frustrating.
Actually, if it really turns out to be Sam doing those trials I might really seriously considering to stop watching, because it’s getting freaking ridiculous. I am just so majorly pissed off.
I would even prefer Kevin completing the trials to Sam. After all Kevin displays all the symptoms already. Maybe the Winchesters will find out that the trials chose the one to complete them and not the other way around. Kind of like how the wand chooses the wizard in Harry Potter.
Wouldn’t that be fitting with episode title “Trial and Error”?
Kevin is probably a red herring and the spoiler from Carina did say it was “the chosen Winchester” which of course, in my view, it’s Sam, cause isn’t he always The Chosen One? Pft. If it is Sam, count me done. I don’t need another revision of seasons 4-7 thank you very much.
Carina is a ESF! Don’t take anything she sayas at face value. According to the promo, it’s both that go after the hellhound. And it better be Dean that does the killing, and THEN DOES THE REMAINING TWO!
Good point. Someone on IMDB also made the good point that the “killing” we see in the promo could easily be a dream or an hallucination.
You can usually tell when it’s a dream sequence, but this promo didn’t look like a dream sequence. As far as I can see, it is Sam who kills the hellhound. There may be more than one hellhound, buty I doubt it.
My guess? Since Sam’s crappy love story didn’t go anywhere and Dean’s purgatory story did, the PTBs, in their foolishness, have decided to give Dean the love story and Sam the stupidnatural one because we all know how much they love to give Dean the useless angst/emo story while giving Sam the important stuff to do.
Nothing changes.
Actually, we don’t know that’s a hell hound, either.
True Paula, we don’t know if it’s a hell hound. But it seems invisible and I’m not sure what else would bleed black goo.
I’d love to be wrong. You have no idea how much I’d love to be wrong, but this show seems to follow that same rut over and over. Meh.
I really don’t know where you all see a hell hound… I’ve watched frame by frame and all I see is someone in a jacket bleeding from their neck towering over Sam. I don’t see a dog or a def shot of Sam killing something. Unless those hellhounds somehow turn out to come in human vessels I don’t know where everybody sees a hell hound?
Friend, Hell-hounds are invisible to people, that’s why Dean needs the glasses. Who knows who told him about them, but he gets them somewhere. And they fight the hound on the idaho ranch. No idea why it’s there but Ellie has some SPN secret so maybe she’s keeping a stray one. (shrugs)
Otherwise they are always with a demon and usually in pairs, except for Crowley super large one.
SO, SEASON 9, GUYS!!!!!!!
Why, have they announced it?
Never mind. I found it: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/02/11/arrow-the-vampire-diaries-and-supernatural-renewed-for-next-season/169072/
I think I’d be happier if I didn’t feel like I’ve been kicked in the teeth again for putting my faith in the new showrunner. :/
But cool for TVD and Arrow.
Supernatural renewed!!
http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/02/11/arrow-vampire-diaries-supernatural/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co
Aaaarghhh…. am just going to wait and see. Excellent points by Lee and Friend. Not only Dean’s possible monstery DNA excludes him … could being an angel vessel exclude you? I presume there is some supernatural added ooomph in the gene pool to allow for vesselness.
Would love to see Sam try and fail!
Would live to see Dean’s checklist of awesome lead to something. Maybe the closing of the hellgates isn’t it, especially since it likely will have some unforeseen, undesirable consequences.
Aaarghh. If my husband is a chatterbox on Wednesday, lord knows what I will do..
He’s a sweetiepie and barks whenever Sam does anything which makes me laugh, but he is not one of us.
“could being an angel vessel exclude you?”
If that’s the case, Sam would be excluded also. Anything that excludes Dean would also exclude Sam as far as I can see.
The more spoilers they release about 8:14 the more displeased everyone seems to be getting. Still holding on to the hope that even if Sam is “destined” to be the one to do the trials, that there is a story for Dean that deals w/the mytharc as well apart from Sam, that allows for his extraordinary accomplishments in the past, that are HIS ALONE.\
Elena – ‘There are a lot of frutrated, angry online fans this morning. If Carver has any Dean spoilers he’d like to share, now would be a really good time….’ Agreed if 8:14 does show Sam to be “special” yet again, not sure how much longer people are going to wait for Dean’s to be highlighted. Patience is definitely seems to be nearing the end.
Castiel’s cat – ‘Would love to see Sam try and fail!’ – & realize he’s not so special after all. Could definitely get behind that.
Hermitme – ‘While I can see your points about Dean not being all human, by the same token, neither is Sam with the demon blood and all.’ True but I assumed that the episode where Sam released Lucifer & the boys ended up on the plane Sam w/no demond blood cravings, he had been purged of it all. Coupled w/the fact this season keeps hammering home how Sam has the human storyline, it made me wonder. Be nice if it was more than wishful thinking this time.
Well have to finish packing will be out of town for few days. Hope you all enjoy Wednesdays show. I refuse to give up on Dean’s potential just yet, & I am optimistic that your posts after the show will make me still want to see the episode when I get back. Crossing fingers for us all.
I don’t know. I’m probably being really foolish, but this spoiler from Jared actually gives me some hope that this might be Dean doing the trials after all. This would be a perfect redemption storyline for him, having him support his brother for a change, having him be there for him when he abandoned him before. Redeem his side of the relationship by having him be DEAN’s support. That’s really what Sam needs. Not another Special Snowflake story, where he’s the center of everything, Dean is left out in the cold, and all of Sam’s wrongs are “wiped out” by some grand gesture that really means nothing.
Plus, it would tie into Singer’s comments about closing the gates being revenge for Sam (if they are killing Dean, then it could be about that), as well as his horrible and idiotic “brain vs brawn” comment, since this would be more of a “brawn” type of quest which is what Singer claims Dean is suited for.
We’ll see. But considering I had zero hope before, this has actually given me a smidgeon.
And despite my issues with the writing and producing of this show, I’m really happy for the cast and crew up in Vancouver about the renewal! They all work their butts off up there, they deserve this!!!
I just can’t believe the series would be so stupid again as to highlight Sam after all the animosity towards Sam’s Song that Kripke’s cause! They just can not be so dense as to think anyone wants to see Sam at all. I just can not believe they would highlight Sam at all any more. How could the slap Dean-fans in the face like that again. They can not expect them to keep sticking around for Sambutt! They have to have brains somewhere. They just have too.
@Cassieo: Yes, I know all that. But people continually say they see a hellhound in the flesh in the promo that is towering over Sam and that Sam kills hims – and while I feel like it’s Sam once again who does the trials *insert me hulking out* – and I can for the life of me not see such a thing at all.
It’s possible that that isn’t a hell hound. There’s no reason there couldn’t be more than one MOTW in the episode. And aren’t hell hounds usually being controlled by human-possessing CRDs?
Exactly! Somehow I always kind of was thinking it could also be a Rugaru or Vampire or Werewolf…
And yes, as far as I remember hell hounds are usually controlled by human possessing CRDs with excpetion of Meg and and Crowley. They seemed to have some of their own.
Oh, that’s actually an interesting idea.
What if that cowboy girl in fact is Meg?
Cause I think Meg will or could play an important part when it comes to the trials.
Yes!! I thought she could be Meg too!