- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/02/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/09/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/16/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/23/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/30/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/06/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/13/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/20/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/27/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/06/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/13/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/20/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/27/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/03/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/10/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/17/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/24/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/01/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/08/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/15/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/22/13
This week, we have more news and spoilers about upcoming books, Doctor Who, Once Upon a Time, returning sci-fi shows, and Supernatural. You can access previous spoilers columns here.
Horrific Reads, Bloody Off the Press
By Nathaniel Katz
Fans of Weird Fiction may want to turn their attentions this week to D.P. Watt’s new collection, An Emporium of Automata. Watt has earned comparisons to Nabokov, Hoffman and Ligotti. These stories are littered with classic genre imagery and bizarre inventions, a mixture of puppets and human strivings.
If you find yourself in need of a break after such a maddening voyage as Watt’s, the week also does provide some rest and relaxation. Sal Griglio tries to get away from it all in Mike Catalano’s Dead at the Jersey Shore and finds, instead, a mixture of ghosts, witches and reality TV. Meanwhile, in Ty Schwamberger’s Last Night Out, a trio of college students go to the Torchlight Inn for drinks and find rather more beneath the floorboards than they bargained for. And if those last two books have put you off vacations and inns, you should probably know that nowhere in all of Britain is safe, for, as the tagline of Lex Sinclair’s Killer Spiders informs us, “An invasion of venomous spiders has hit the country!”
One hotel, though, will always be worth any horror fan’s time. I am speaking, of course, about the Overlook Hotel and about Stephen King’s classic The Shining. Subterranean Press is putting out a new edition of that hallowed work, one replete with illustrations and all of the other deluxe hallmarks that the publisher is known for. Though the limited and lettered editions have sold out, the gift edition is still available for preorder.
Doctor Who (Saturday nights, 9pm, BBC America)
By Heather S. Vina
It’s been announced that the show will be returning to the airwaves on March 30, for a run of eight original episodes. And alas, so far, apart from the 50th Anniversary special, it sounds like those will be the last new episodes until the year 2014. No word yet on whether or not there will be a Christmas special.
There’s a rumor out there that they are going to “bring back” all of the Doctor’s previous incarnations for the 50th Anniversary special. How, when William Hartnell, Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee are all dead? Video trickery. Hey, it’s worked for other shows/movies. Why not this one?
The last hold-out of the still-living Doctors was Christopher Eccleston, who didn’t seem to want anything to do with the show before, but now seems to be easing up on that stance.
As for the Companions, according to what I’ve been seeing on the net and the above report, the only one who might be appearing (other than Jenna-Louise Coleman) is Alex Kingston’s River Song.
Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina
ABC has released the official synopsis for the episode “Manhattan”:
“WHILE MR. GOLD GOES IN SEARCH OF SON BAE IN NEW YORK, CORA ATTEMPTS TO TRACK DOWN ONE OF RUMPELSTILTSKIN’S MOST TREASURED POSSESSIONS, ON ABC’S ONCE UPON A TIME
“‘Manhattan’ – While Mr. Gold, Emma and Henry go in search of Gold’s son Bae in New York, Cora, Regina and Hook attempt to track down one of Rumpelstiltskin’s most treasured possessions. Meanwhile, in the fairytale land that was, Rumpelstiltskin realizes his destiny while fighting in the Ogres War, on Once Upon a Time, SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 17 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.
“Once Upon a Time stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Lana Parrilla as Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Colin O’Donoghue as Hook, Jared S. Gilmore as Henry Mills, Meghan Ory as Red Riding Hood/Ruby, and Robert Carlyle as Rumpelstiltskin/Mr. Gold.
“Guest starring are Barbara Hershey as Cora, Michael Raymond-James as Neal Cassidy, Rachel Shelley as Milah, Ethan Embry as Greg Mendell, Spencer Drever as Boy, Brighid Fleming as Little Girl, Shannon Lucio as Seer, David Quinlan as Father, Primo Allon as Gadling, Mackenzie Gray as Hob, Toby Levins as Sergeant and Aaron Brooks as Soldier.
“‘Manhattan’ was written by Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz and directed by Dean White.”
SpoilerTV has up the promotional photos for the episode, “Tiny” on their site.
They also are reporting that there is a new role being cast: “For episode #218 of Once Upon a Time, a guest role (preferably with an Asian accent) is being cast: The Healer. He’s 60, mystical, powerful, helpful to those in trouble, and makes predictions that can be difficult to understand.”
Vancity has up some set-side pictures on their site. You can see ones of Barbara Hershey here, arriving on set. Looks like Cora is now wearing modern-day clothes! You can see more pictures of Cora and Regina trying to break down Gold’s shop door here. Seems Lana Parrilla is holding Rumpelstiltskin’s dagger in her hand. I’d like to think that Rump/Gold wouldn’t be stupid enough to leave it handy. Maybe he has a decoy.
Actor John Pyper-Ferguson (Alphas, Caprica) has been cast as Ben, a “widower who wants nothing more than to help his young son heal from the loss of his mother.” Young actor Benjamin Stockham (1600 Penn) has been cast as Ben’s young son, “Owen, a precocious, strong-willed kid who isn’t afraid to speak his mind – but his free-spirited, lively personality is all a facade, as he’s secretly dealing with the tragic death of his mother.”
TV Guide‘s Mega Buzz had up a little spoiler last week:
“When are we finally going to see the Land of Oz on Once Upon a Time? - Charlie”
“NATALIE: Sorry, Charlie: Executive producers Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz broke the news to me that we’ll have to wait until at least next season before we see Oz. However, a trip to Neverland may soon be in the cards. ‘We do know Hook spent some time there,’ Kitsis says. ‘I will be interested to see what it looks like.’”
David Anders tweeted that he will be making another appearance on the show soon: “Before my return 2 #OnceUponaTime I’ll be on #Arrow in an ep titled “Betrayal” airing February 6th. I play a dude who bleeds evil. Tune in!”
And finally, the show was a repeat this past week and won’t return until February 10, with the Giant-themed episode, “Tiny.”
Sci-Fi Spoilerpalooza
By Heather S. Vina
The trailer for season 5 of the British version of Being Human is up on YouTube. Captain Hatch looks like he’s going to be very bad news! Crumb doesn’t look too far off.
The magazine, SFX, has up a bunch of pictures for season five, ranging from spoilery to not-so-spoilery. They also have up some interesting interviews with the cast and an introduction to the new season with Toby Whithouse, the creator of the show.
Supernatural (Wednesday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles
The episode tonight is 8.12, “As Time Goes By.” In addition to the official press release and official photos, we have the CW promo, a Producer’s Preview, a preview review, a sneak peek, and the Canadian promo.
I’m not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, most of what the writers and producers are telling us about how Henry Winchester is the Second Coming to the show gives me hives. And the way they have him handcuff the brothers to a chair on their first meeting, and later call Hunters “apes,” is annoying as all get-out. My God, he sounds just like Bela Talbot.
Please, show, can’t you find any other way for the brothers to meet new characters besides writing the brothers stupid and having the new characters meet them cute by getting one over on them? It’s boring. It’s predictable. And it immediately makes me wish that new character dead. Nor am I wild that Sam, in the promos, appears to have been hit by the “But it’s family” Stupid Stick. I hope that won’t mean Dean gets punished for ducking said stick.
On the other hand, what I see of the clips, I generally like, and I like the actor who plays Henry. I also like the idea of opening up the verse mythology for both magic-workers and demons (though I worry that Adam “Never Met a Good Plot He Didn’t Retcon into Garbage” Glass is writing this one) and Abaddon looks rather fun. I just wish the show would stop manufacturing conflict and crappy angst with every single new character they introduce. It makes me want to hurl.
The showrunners also insist that this episode will be a game-changer. Heard that one before. Still got the t-shirt, show.
Executive Producer Bob Singer did a Q&A at a press screening of “Trial and Error,” in which he stated that Benny would be back, that Charlie would return in a case where she actually sought out the brothers (Do you promise to kill her off this time, show?), and that Amelia might return (in the episode, “Goodbye, Stranger,” I bet). He also briefly discussed Kevin (who is returning in “Trial and Error”) and Castiel’s return down the road. Apparently, Naomi is pretty angry with Castiel right now, which can’t be good.
I laughed at the “instant classic” kak about “LARP and the Real Girl” and how popular Charlie is as a character. Keep telling yourself that, show. As for Benny, I bet he’s coming back because of actual fan love and for no other reason. We’ll see if he gets summarily killed off or permanently written out the way every other mature and non-Village Idiot guest character seems to be getting written out this season.
I’ve also grown heartily sick and tired of all this paternalistic guff from male showrunners of genre shows about how female fans don’t like their female characters because the fans (yes, the fans) hate women. Listen, you sexist old goats, I’m reasonably sure that possessing “lady parts” makes me far more qualified than you will ever be to gauge whether your female characters are well-written and sympathetic. So, why don’t you stop ramming your tarsals and metatarsals down your own esophagi long enough to listen to those self-same female fans instead of insulting them? We ladies would be ever so grateful.
You can find more previews of the screening here, as well as a not-very-spoilery interview with Ty Olsson. The final previewer, from Zap2it, doesn’t seem to know her Bible very well, assuming that “Abbadon” is something Arabic, rather than the infamous demon/angel/whateveritwas from The Book of Revelation. Also, Henry is supposedly part of another group that aren’t Hunters. Like that demon cult they hinted at last fall? Gee, are we finally going a little Occult here, show? Do tell.
Speaking of executive producer interviews, show creator Eric Kripke gave a group one in which he said pretty much what he’s been saying since he left the show.
Official photos for 8.13 are up. The Golem looks scary, though they appear to have forgotten the symbol of the Holy Name on its forehead (unless they’re making it invisible for some reason). Not sure if that’s Sam lying on the steps or not, but Dean seems pretty active, at least in the photos.
The highly controversial and divisive official synopsis for 8.14 is up (Official photos are here):
“8×14 Trial and Error: KEVIN DECIPHERS THE TABLET – Kevin (guest star Osric Chau) deciphers the tablet and figures out how to close the gates of Hell. He tells Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) that according to the tablet one person must face a series of three tests designed by God. The first one – kill a hellhound. Sam and Dean argue over who should complete the trials. Kevin Parks directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb.”
Well, it’s nice to see that they’re not waiting much past the halfway point in the season for that plot advancement. In the old days, they’d have pushed that one until the 20th episode, at least (By the way, Kevin Parks is the producer all the writers consult about canon, so here’s hoping he rides herd on that in this episode).
A lot of fans are assuming that Dean will not be the brother to complete the trials, that it will be either Sam or a guest character (like Kevin), and they’re not very happy about it. Ironically, that’s because, if Dean is the one to complete these trials, it could be the beginning of an actual mytharc plot for him – a big one. But fans have been down this road before and they’ve grown cynical, believing that it will simply be turned back in some way, either to be All About Sam or All About Random Guest Star.
It’s hard to say how that will go. I’m not too sure it is a great idea to continue all this conflict between the brothers (Okay, I don’t think it’s a good idea, period). It’s created a lot of sourness and bad feeling in the audience. But that hasn’t stopped the writers from going on with it full steam ahead. I suppose the one thing that could be argued is that if Dean ends up doing the trials, Sam’s jealousy is likely to come romping back, without even the Benny Excuse, and we might finally get some advancement on that front.
It looks as though former showrunner Sera Gamble really, really, really won’t be coming back to the show, since she has a script going to pilot with the CW, a Navy soap entitled ‘Company Town‘.
For those of you who lost the CW in New York during the big cable dispute a month ago, the network is returning to the Tri-State area on Channel 7. It comes back starting February 1.
Tim Waggoner, who is doing a tie-in novel for the show this year, Carved in Flesh, is also writing a pick-your-own-adventure book, Supernatural, the Television Series: The Roads Not Taken that comes out on September 1, 2013. Also, at least one of the 2014 calendars is currently scheduled to come out on August 6.
Finally, ratings for “LARP and the Real Girl” had another 0.9/2 and 2.01 million in audience, putting the show once again at third on the network. It was a steady rating, but neither the demo nor the audience showed any bump due to the guest star, so I guess no extra Felicia Day fans sampled the episode live. This is usually the case with stunt-casting on the show, though that hasn’t ever stopped them from doing it, anyway.
We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm and Supernatural.
If you like these spoilers, please help continue our site by making a donation, buying one of our fiction issues, or buying one of our books: Fraterfamilias, Historical Lovecraft, Future Lovecraft, and our Gothic horror anthology, Candle in the Attic Window. You can also buy Paula’s non-fiction book on medieval Spanish history, Templar Convivencia.









It might be that Day did help with ratings. It’s possible that without her the rating would have been a Loy worse due to hardcore fan dropping the show. I’m just guessing though. Really I would have expected the rating to be worse given the unhappiness of the previous episode.
I hope they don’t bring Benny back just to have Dean kill him off. Like you said mature character aren’t well received by the younger audience of the CW. And yes a lot of SPN viewers are older but that’s because of JA we all know how much TPTB like them.
Sam is not going to change and bringing Benny back…. I just can’t see that being a good sign. It’s amazing Cas is still with the show.
As for Charlie and Garth, I don’t mind them. I would prefer the show focus on Dean, but that’s not going to happen, so then at least they keep Sam off of my screen. Really both of them have been more interested in Dean than Sam. So at least I get to see JA do some good acting.
I’m not looking forward to tonight’s episode. I think it’s going to be All About Sam again and I’ve had enough of him to last a life time.
Very unlikely. The final ratings were well within the show’s usual range this season and her fans would be unlikely to show up belatedly this week. As a recent article about publishing put it, just because you have a million “followers” on Twitter, doesn’t mean you have a million readers/viewers of your content.
So, lots of big hype about what is to unfold. Perhaps they’ve heard the grumbling about the slow pacing and the emotional handwringing from the Winchesters about what terrible lives they have. The last time I was stoked about all their plans was when Carver was announced showrunner. Since he hasn’t lived up to the potential I thought he had as of now, I’m not going to get all excited about the hype and game changer business.
As far as Henry Winchester; yeah, I’m curious, but the thought of ‘how will they ruin this character’ just wouldn’t go away. I’m hoping that he’s not a pervert like the entire Campbell family was (well, except Deanna, whom I really liked and they didn’t use).
I’d say you’re out of luck with them killing off Charlie. All the gushing makes me sick…and, Dear God…I think Sam dumping Amelia twice is quite enough. I really, really don’t need to see that a third time.
It sure sounds to me like all will be forgotten between the brothers with the big emotional scene at the end of this episode. I’m cringing at the thought of that. Actually, I’m kind of to the point that I want them to hit each other in the mouths, dust it off and be done with it. Get to the mytharc and deal with the supernatural.
Thanks for the roundup, Paula. I’m not too pleased with Carver so far – everything seems to be status quo, what with the giving Dean fans hope, then turning it all around and slapping us in the face, lots of extra-special guest stars doing their thing, while the guys sit on the sidelines.
I realize we have half a season to go, but so far almost everything that Carver spouted about since Comic Con has been absent. And the only things we have seen (Purgatory, Benny, Samelia), seem to be over (P, B) or need to be salted and burned (Samelia and all the whining thereof). I was initially interested in this episode, but with the way things have gone in the past, and with the way things have been turned on their head since the beginning of the season, I just can’t get excited. I’d love to be surprised, but I don’t think I will be. So, once again, I won’t be watching the episode live. Hopefully, the episode will turn out to be wonderful, but I just can’t get my hopes up again, after all this time. The pacing this season has been just as horrible as in seasons past. What, exactly, is the main arc? Is it the tablets? Is it Naomi/Cas? How about some movement on that front? The writers don’t seem to be very interested in the mytharc, and would it kill them to put a single line of dialog, something along the lines of “I hope Cas is doing okay”, into the episode, so some impetus is felt?
Whatever. I’ll be looking forward to your review of the actual episode, Paula. That will determine whether it’s worth watching or not.
If Henry was part of a demon cult… might explain Skinner’s hatred of john. In the supernatural world demons are the source of powerful magic by witches.
Abbadon is fallen angel/demon I thought. Makes me wonder if naomi is a fallen angel and of course I’ve ling thought Crowley might be. Azazel had the name of a fallen angel. If the new mytharc is still angelic stuff, cas is guaranteed a presence.
Sam is Ineffectual in every episode we have seen. His big hunt in fang failed miserably. He truly seems wallpaper this season. He was sidelined in LARP and the girl did all the research for him, and the research proved unnecessary, since Dean had the Intel as well.
So this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/supernatural-as-time-goes-by_n_2582041.html
kind of makes me think it really – once again – will be Sam, who’ll learn about his special place within the family and the myth-arc.
I know the episode hasn’t even aired yet, but with this article in mind, I am actually already so majorly pissed off that I might really forget myself. Ugh, and I was so excited for this episode…
I guess it’s too much to hope for Dean finally getting some attention as part of the myth arc and stuff as well. I am pissed.
Well, it does imply that Sam will discover his place in the family. But it also says that won’t be tied to the mytharc.
Myself, I am very skeptical of previews and hanging my hat on any of them. After all, Laura Prudom liked the last two episodes a whole lot better than I did.
But Laura Purdom is a much bigger Dean fan than Sam fan. And I was thinking Sam would learn that his place in this life is to hunt by Dean side…..not run the show, but be a shotgun. If that’s what they do, that’s fine. If he’s the one with the special power again, I just will…..well I don’t know what, but unhappy will be an understatement!
As for this big emotional scene between the boys, I’m guessing that will be something I skip. I know it will end up making Dean look bad and Sam look good and I’m not interested in that again.
As for all the new hoopla….I full expected it after the fall out from 8.10. Whenever they irk the Dean fans, they quick come out with all the new stuff they are doing for Dean and we should just ‘hang in there and all will be explained.” I’m not falling for that again! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I think I’ve shamed myself enough in the past 7 yrs. I’m not falling for it again.
Yeah, it does sound like it’s Sam that’s going to find his “place” in the family business. Oh, goody. Bleh.
Just what purpose did the first part of this season serve? I’m bewildered. Was it really necessary to take ten steps backward in the brother relationship in order to end up in the same place again. I feel like watching SPN is like riding a merry-go-round, spending a lot of time traveling the same path and going nowhere.
Why Amelia and the fuss with Benny? Why not jump right to this? Perhaps they think the audience (or those of us who prefer more characters) needs reminding that everyone else is expendable?
And Singer’s lines about Cas don’t mean squat. For all I know this will all happen off-screen. Whoop-De-Doo.
Well, really, nothing means squat except for what we see on the screen. And these showrunners have flat-out lied in the past, for better and for worse. Which is a good reason to wait and see what happens. Building up expectations either way usually just leads to disappointment.
Of course, you’re right, Paula. Just frustrated. And it’s because we’ve been flat-out lied to in the past that I can’t let go of my misgivings. I hate being lied to.
I understand. And I hate being lied to, as well. But it’s easy to forget that we’ve really only had two meh episodes since the last great one, that the previous mythology episode (“A Little Slice of Kevin”) was surprisingly good, and that what we’re mainly worrying about at the moment is how the writers will somehow, based on some rather vague spoilers, screw up what’s so far a pretty decent plot.
This interview didn’t cause me any stress. I thought it was fairly balanced in what the episode contains for both Sam and Dean.
I look at the preview clips and read this interview and I see Sam being very much like the Winchester side of the family. We’ve been told that Henry is “scholarly,” and he calls hunters, “apes.” That tells me he is not a hunter, but is connected with the supernatural in a different way. He also appears to me, from the clip anyway, to be somewhat obsessive and definitely ‘prissy’ as hell. Screams Sam to me.
From what I gather, Dean’s role will be to be skeptical of Henry and draw out the episode’s story. So, if Dean gets the action, I’m okay with that. Dean’s already a hunter, like Mary’s side of the family, and is more like Mary, so I don’t really see any need for him to do anything but learn what Henry has to say and connect the dots as to what is revealed about why Heaven manipulated John and Mary to married so that Sam and Dean would be born.
Sam already looks stupid in the clip by appearing to be somewhat accepting of Henry, just because he is their grandfather. The last grandfather they met tried to feed them to ghouls. I think I’d be a little leery meeting another one; especially if he just dropped out of a closet.
I’m curious to see why Dean is in such conflict with Henry, since a big part of Sam’s Special Destiny began with his being in conflict with the original father figure of the story, John. Does Henry know something dark and deadly about his eldest’s destiny that was set up 55 years ago? Is Henry going to tell Sam he has to save his brother or kill him (Good luck with the latter task, Sammy)?
Also curious, though this could just be an artifact of the promotion–both the CW and Canadian promo show Dean in a different dramatic pose. The CW ends with Dean standing in daylight, staring off into space with an odd look on his face. The Canadian shows Dean from below, looking sinister. Don’t know what those things mean, but it’s interesting that Dean is set off in both promos like that.
I think the reason Dean’s in conflict because Adam Glass, Sam girl extraordinaire wrote this ep and its just to set up a parallel with Sam being all sympathethic and understanding about his Henry leaving John.
I stopped trying to find deeper meanings in anything because it never really goes anywhere.
Sam’s used to leaving and Dean’s used to be abandoned
Hmmmm…interesting. would fit with the mirroring. I had wondered previously if things Were being manipulated so that Dean took a specific journey.
The Huff Post blog hints pretty strongly that Sam will learn his special place in the Winchester family history, and that is what will motivate him 100% from now on.
I’m feeling somewhat unenthusiastic for the show at the moment. I am sure it’s going to go on into Season 9, so the mytharc is most likely going to go into next season, with a cliffhanger for this season’s finale. I do wonder about Season 10, though. Will Jensen want to remain for yet another year in Vancouver, while he has a toddler? Won’t his wife want to get back to work by the time Season 10 rolls around? Won’t that be difficult with him filming in Vancouver, and her looking for work in LA?
I am now starting to hope that this season ends, and ends well, for Castiel. Like Bobby ended in Season 7, if they can get a good and satisfactory ending for Cas this season (unlike the ending in 7.02) – perhaps a sacrifice by permanently dying – it would leave them free to focus on the Winchesters and usual guest stars for fillers next season. It’s curious – the writers who wrote brilliant Cas episodes in Seasons 4 and 5, Carver and Edlund, are not writing for him any more and no one seems engaged in the character. At least there seems to be enthusiasm for the new character created, Benny, who I am relieved, will be back.
Well, the word from Mark Pedowitz’s last interview was that both Padalecki and Ackles were signed on through season ten. So, I don’t think Ackles will have much choice.
Ackles has long been a lot more enthusiastic about continuing the show than Padalecki. His season-four funk is a distant memory at this point. I’d be unsurprised if he sees through his statement from a year or so ago that he would turn out the lights on the show when it finally ended.
Ah, I wasn’t aware that Ackles and Padalecki were signed on till Season 10. I thought they were signed on till Season 9.
They had both better be extremely enthusiastic about the show, with the kind of money they both make per episode. They are not going to make that kind of money in a hurry in a new show any time soon. It would be very ungracious if they were drawing those huge salaries and being sour about it!
No, they said something at a recent convention and I think Pedowitz said in his most-recent interview that they are now signed through season ten.
I think both of them have been pretty gracious throughout about doing the show, even allowing for some of the more outrageous pranks. Reading up on the behind-the-scenes stuff of other long-running shows, I’m struck by how ungraciousness is far more the norm. I think that if they were down in Hollywood all the time, it would be harder to not compare themselves to other actors in their position as leads on long-running shows. In that context, they’re actually being grossly *under*paid. And that’s especially when you use Bruce Campbell’s formula from “If Chins Could Kill” of the cut everyone else gets of your salary before your final gross at the end of the year that you actually live on. What’s actually done them in good stead is that they’ve been working steadily for eight seasons, with raises each season. But fortunately, they seem to have had good counsel from early on and are able to put it in perspective. As each has said many times, they’ve been gainfully employed for most of their careers, which is better off than at least 95% of actors in Hollywood.
“perhaps a sacrifice by permanently dying ”
You mean I will have had to put up with all the crap my favorite character has gone through just so he can be killed permanently this time. It will leave a bitter taste in my mouth if this is his destiny. Also, I have little respect for how well the storyline in this series holds together as is, but I need an explanation to Cas being brought back several times or I will be even more angry than I am.
On the bright side of this possibility, I would never have to be disappointed in the show again (wouldn’t be watching) and I would never have to see another “brothers only” post again.
“On the bright side of this possibility, I would never have to be disappointed in the show again (wouldn’t be watching)”
Yes, this is definitely the bright side of that possibility. The other bright side is that it could just give Misha Collins a push to look for other work, in another TV show, where his character is integrated better and used better. May be some show that films in LA. Clearly, even this season, the showrunners are quite against integrating Cas organically in the show, which as Singer so eloquently puts it, is fundamentally about two loner brothers and their bromance.
The problem is that this business is so fickle and you have so many people vying for so few gigs. Also, I’ve never been one to watch a movie or television series solely due to a particular actor being in it; I have to find the character portrayed and/or the storyline interesting.
It would, however, be nice to see him in a show I enjoy more, especially as Singer seems to want to ram the Winchester “bromance” down my throat. *gags* It does makes me wonder how the series will end.
What I fail to understand is why rip everyone else from Castiel if they don’t even want him to be part of the Winchesters. And, seriously, Garth and Charlie? I wonder if these stellar characters are repopulating the Winchesters’ world because no one would care enough about them to want to delve deeper into them.
Thanks for the round up Paula.
I just don’t understand the need to single out one brother for the trials. I don’t like the character of Sam but I’m a realist and I know he isn’t going anywhere. They could have done one/one/both.
They wonder why there are so many fan wars but its the writers that are the worst culprits of this.
I kept thinking from the title that Lucky was back.
Synopsis of episode “8.15 – Man’s Best Friend With Benefits“
DEAN REALLY DOESN’T LIKE WITCHES — A police officer named Kevin (guest star Christian Campbell), who turned to witchcraft after working a case with Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles), is plagued by nightmares in which he murders innocent people. However, when the murders actually happen, Sam and Dean are called in by Kevin’s “familiar” (guest star Mishael Morgan) to help — but the brothers aren’t sure they want to save a witch.
John Showalter directed the episode written by Brad Buckner & Eugenie Ross-Leming.
This episode still sounds just awful. I do like John Showalter’s work though.
Ummm… prudom’s piece didn’t raise alarms with me. First off JP always interviews like he is the center of the universe. Second, maybe it’s as simple as finding out the family connection started before the parents met and it is his legacy. Henry’s approach might gel more with what Sam enjoys. Dean enjoys decapitation. And it doesn’t mean Dean couldn’t do spells too. He has.
What’s up with someone forever dying? Where does it say Sam is not in the mytharc?
I bet the Campbell’s were the apes he refers to, and they were subhuman in the long-run as Dean found out. No honor.
Okay. What a powerful episode and so GREAT! I loved Dean and it wasn’t all Sam. I really liked Sam too. I LOVED Henry. How sad it was when he found out John thought he abandon him. And I’m so glad they showed John in a good light.
I NEVER liked them making him a deadbeat Dad. He loved those boys and he did the best he could. So the Winchesters were the brains and the Campbells the brawn. I think the boys are the best of both and they learned it without knowing who they were. Dean is brains and brawn. And Sam…see.. you brother knows best. He knew he was destined to be a hunter from the start. Hope now you realize it too.
Wonder if Henry going back would have been the better thing to do.
Anyway…I was so wrong about the episode and so glad I watched. I LOVED IT But that doesn’t get Carver off the hook for Sambutt. Have to say, I did like Sam this time. I say Dean was the brains and brawn.
Gosh so much to think about. I am going to love this re-watch.
Really want to know about the key. Guess that is how they save Cas and defeat Naoni. Wonder if she is a Knight of Hell too. She is a ‘different’ kind of angel. they said, How about a fallen one…whose after all the spells of all time.
Did I say I LOVED this episode!!!
My immediate reaction to this episode is that I loved it, with the exception of one line — “I’m going to call Garth.” Screw Garth! I would have thought that the line should have read, “Too bad we don’t know where Cas is right now.” I really liked the brothers, alone, working a case and I really, really like hardass Dean. (“The brains and the brawn,” *chuckle, chuckle* Hmmm, Sam, it was Dean that came up with the ruthless, awesome solution here. Can you just imagine Dean chopping up that corpse, dragging the pieces all over the country, and burying them in cement! Eww.
Cynicism abounds, but if they would stick with the new mytharc they built into this episode, I can see SPN going for a lot of years w/o being boring. They’ve built a path for Sam to be the new precept and Dean to be the hunter. I’d be happy with that formula…and Garth could be ditched.
I also really liked seeing what Dean now thinks of John. Yeah, they did some rehabilitating of John’s character, but I didn’t think it set aside what I’ve always felt; that John was abusive to, particularly, Dean. But I can also see where Dean wouldn’t be the hardass hunter we saw in this episode if he weren’t.
The one thing, please Show, I’m begging now — drop ALL of the ‘sucky life’ speeches from the show. Let the brothers embrace their “legacy” and get on with it.
I was a little disappointed to see Henry killed off, although storywise it absolutely had to be done. Another really good character killed, while Garth, Kevin, and Charlie STILL hang around. I really liked Henry’s casting.
I don’t think they design Sam for a precept at all. Either brother can become one, but my impression was to merge both side in the same hunter. I know Sam like computers and in a farce at solo hunting, again this eppie Dean had to rescue him, but Dean is one sharp cookie himself and his one badass hunter too. He’s the best of both worlds.
I’m really sad the killed off Henry, but there really wasn’t a choice. He couldn’t go back and he couldn’t stay in our time. And I really wish he has had some time to teach the boys the legacy. Really wish the Men of Letters still existed.
Well, technically, the Freemas–sorry, Men of Letters–still do, as long as the brothers live. It’s possible that’s why the angels wanted John and Mary together–to join the two traditions.
But they don’t know any of the spells. Henry did’t even teach them how to tap into their soul. And there is no Man on Letters left to teach them. That is the sad part.
But don’t they have an entire library from which to learn? Grandpa Shady didn’t intentionally teach them much, either, but they still learned plenty from the Campbell Quonset Hut.
This Templar historian and descendant of many generations of Freemasons is gonna have a field day with this one, yup.
Oh, crap. I think we’re about to lose power. Again. For the fourth friggin’ time today.
Right! They can teach themsves! I never thought of that! Now this is getting interesting.
Normal Illinois? I really liked it. It definitely opens things up and makes it personal. Gives Sam a legacy that he can’t deny without making him the chosen one. Is anyone else worried that Sam didn’t want to destroy great yet dangerous knowledge to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands? Unfortunately Dean wasn’t around for that conversation. I thought Dean was awesome. I guess it’s no surprise to draw on Masonic rite/ rituals- ie.. aleister Crowley did.
Well, I am as mad as a wet hen right now. We lost power at 9:40 and I didn’t get to see the rest of it. I suppose the good news is that I got pretty far through this month’s book, “The Occult in America,” and was most of the way through an article on the Fox Sisters when the lights came back on.
Oh, that’s so bad, Paula. You are going to love out-of-the-box thinking Dean, and he was downright hardass in the decisions he made.
There were flaws in the episode, but easily overlooked by me for all the good we got. I loved it.
I [ahem] got a link to watch it, so I’ll be caught up in an hour or so. I suppose I ought to feel guilt, except that I buy the HD format of the episode every week from Amazon as part of a season pass, so…nope. No guilt there.
I’m annoyed that Henry didn’t make it, but that we’re still plagued by Garth and Charlie. I have an ugly suspicion about why that I’ll expand upon in my review.
I don’t want it destroyed. That can be do useful and. To hell with those tablets. This will trump all of that. And dean wasn’t I opposed to going there. He just wonder if the site would still exist. And I really liked hope Dean defended John. So glad. And Sam seemed better toward John too.
According to singer (EW popwatch) the boys will now use the Trove of knowledge as a home base and will let Garth inside. Sam will love all of the books. I guess San didn’t tell Dean about the old precepts wishes. Knowledge and power corrupts Sammy.
I hope Garth dies really soon. He’s become annoying as hell. And really, what is the Village Idiot going to add to the level of knowledge? They don’t teach you Latin in Dental School.
And I’ll buy Singer’s “home base forever” thing when it actually happens. The brothers’ previous home bases haven’t lasted very long.
So they do go there. Wonder if we get to see that or if it’s off camera. And it’s their new base? Boy Bobby would have loved that. But Garth? Really? Why? He is more of an accident waiting to happen. I’d worry he’d damage something.
Guys, overall I love this episode. Period. But here have some dislike/likes of mine.
Things I disliked:
- Lack of mentioning Cas – Part 1: I mean “the feather of an angel”-part. How much more inviting can it get? Would that have been a problem to have them say: “Man, if we knew where Cas was at right now… He could probably help with that.” A question though. How exactly is it possible to have a feather of an angel. As far as I can remember the wings are never shown “corporal”/invisible, but are only hinted at with shadows?
- Lack of mentioning Cas – Part 2: Why not have Dean say: “I’m gonna call Cas?” or “I wish we knew where Cas was, he could surely help us out here.” instead of calling Garth? I mean, I get it, they are setting up Garth as the new Bobby, but that’s not working for me. Period.
- WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO FAMILY DOESN’T END WITH BLOOD?
Things I liked:
- I enjoyed Henry Winchester. I thought the actor for that role was great and I also really liked how he talked about John and what he meant to him and how sorry he was for what happened to his son and his son’s family. Though I was a little pissed at him for his arrogant behaviour towards Dean.
- The whole tapping into your own soul’s powers thing. I LOVE. Been saying before that being able to use that power to fight evil could be more than helpful for the Winchesters.
- I saw brief flashes of Purgatory!Dean (and Purgatory!Dean is always a major plus in my book) in the way Dean was dealing with their grandfather in the beginning, so I am hoping that – and it’s a shame that we won’t get more about what happened in purgatory and what it did to Dean – his PTSD symptoms will continue to surface here and there.
- I love this whole new myth-arc with the bloodlines and the idea of the “Men of Letters” since I find it to be way more personal and therefore more interesting and way bigger driving force than the tablets. I am still holding on to the hope that this has/had something to do with them being perfect to house archangels. And yes, also still hoping at some point it will be revealed that the Winchesters descend from a fallen angel or something. Also, “Men of Letters”/”Word of God”. Does this sound to anybody else like the “Men of Letters” were also some kind of scribes?
- Abbadon. I really like this new kind of demon. Too bad she got “killed” in the end of the episode. But hey, maybe there are more of her kind still… Was she what has been hinted at back in summer that one of the big bad of the first few seasons would make a comeback? I mean, she reminds a whole lot of Azazel and Lilith in her powers and in the way she is described as one of Lucifer’s first. Here goes to hoping the apocalyptic themes will get re-visited since those have been my favourite myth-arc(s).
- New source of knowledge. So, the Winchesters will have a new homebase soon. It has been said that the set for it will be pretty big and pretty cool, so I have to say I am stoked about that.
- Also: not meaning to dump on characters, but I think with the set up or characterization of the brothers this episode (Sam = the think-er, Dean = the do-er) I could imagine that in the end Sam will be the new Bobby (and thank god not Garth). Here’s to hoping that both brothers will be equally as important as “Men of Letters” and not again just good old Sammy.
- And last but not least: Dean “flirting” with both the gothic-comic-girl and motel-guy. I mean, why include those shots of Dean’s facial expressions this way if not to show us and subtly tell us something about Dean.
Oh and what is it with Illinois? Seems all the big things go down somewhere in Illinois. Henry Winchester is from Illinois, as is Jimmy Novak, as it is where Dean came back from hell, as is where Castiel found himself on a road after he came back from purgatory.
Men of Letters=Freemasons. Yes, I am very, very sure about that. They’re just basically coming up with a new name to avoid any slander/libel issues (not that the Freemasons haven’t become like ducks with water when it comes to that stuff).
I think they are called “Freimaurer” in german. Seems fitting. Interesting. Interesting.
Well, they were having a secret initiation in a lodge (If you’ve ever been inside a Masonic lodge, that’s what the meeting hall looks like), with guys in robes, and they kept referring to being “precepts” (preceptors) and their children as “legacies.” And all the talk about preserving Occult/esoteric knowledge.
So, yup, Masonic Temple all the way.
Oooo…I’m getting goosebumps all over! I LOVE the Freemasons. A lot of our Presidents were free masons as was Ben Franklin. WOW the boys have been elevated to royalty all most. Paula, your a Freemason. Cool! You are so lucky! That’s a very elite class. And hope your power is on for good now.
Hi Friend,
I wondered about Dean w/Gothic girl & motel-guy as well, not sure is suppose to notice Dean’s reaction to them or the fact that Dean seemed to be the 1 that the demon was noticing the most. Not exactly sure the point I’m trying to get across other than the more powerful demons, seem to take special interest in Dean (whether the storys intention or not)Azazel was always up close & personal with him, Crowley, but more I think about it maybe not. Anyway question for you guys what do you know about Aquarian Star (The Men of Letters Crest)that caught my attention due to what it stand for magic & power & the fact that Dean’s birthday falls under that sign (looked it up to make sure after last weeks episodewhen the date was on the phone) thought at 1st show was just pointing out Sam’s mindset towards Dean & Sam still being a jerk, but could it be something more? Or am I giving to much credit for continuity between episodes when Cas is not brought up in any way, yet again. Yes Friend that irritated me as well. Don’t really expect Dean to discuss Cas with Sam, & certainly not w/Henry, but could have shown him thinking of him in some way. Show did much better earlier in the season with continuity. Thats all for now. Look forward to reading your review Paula
Some questions for you guys, since I haven’t watched the episode:
Why is this Sam’s wakeup call about “his family destiny”? Why can’t he deny it? Did the Campbell genes somehow bypass Sam upon conception, because he also had a “family destiny” from that end, and he’s had no problems denying it, at all. What’s so different with this one, the fact that Henry reflects his disdain for hunters and the life? That attitude worked out real well for the Men of Letters, didn’t it?
With regard to the mystical-magical Man Of Letters
“bequeathment”. We’ve got John’s storage locker – that they inherited and pretty much ignore. We’ve got Bobby’s library – which Bobby copied and stored in caches all other the place. They inherited that (although somehow Garth got it?). The Campbell Fambly Repository of Knowledge, which contains all kinds of fantastical, previously unknown and “lost” information – is also theirs. So, why are we supposed to be excited about this new repository? Obviously, it didn’t help the MoL. And frankly, when was the last time the guys researched by themselves, with books instead of google or wiki? They pretty much ignore all their other avenues to knowledge, so I can’t get all het up about this one. Also, apparently, if they need something researched, they now have Garth (SERIOUSLY!!??).
Did we really need one more level of mytharc? They haven’t moved on the demon tablet, nevermind all the other tablets hidden around the world. They haven’t moved on Crowley. They don’t know about Naomi. They have suspicions about Castiel (which Dean has had for even longer), but they’ve done nothing about that. The season is overpacked with “stuff” that might actually be interesting, if there was any movement. But it feels like the writers have all these ideas, but no idea what to do with them. They’re introduced and then dropped, which doesn’t do much to keep viewers engaged.
Anyway, my problem is still the relationship between the guys and the whitewashing. I just can’t get over it, and until it’s addressed in a realistic fashion, it’s tainting the whole show for me.
It’s my impression that Sam understood the “legacy,” because he realizes that dealing with the supernatural has always been on both sides of the family; but mostly because he’s got the ‘key’ to the Trove of Knowledge bunker and once that is open, he will become wrapped up in all those ‘smarts.’ As Singer says, Sam will still hold onto the idea that once they close the Gates of Hell (and whatever becomes of the Naomi/angel thing), that a normal life is in the cards for him.
I, too, wondered what was the difference between this ‘destiny,’ and the destiny to be Mike/Luci vessels, but let it go. You know these writers — they don’t think far ahead. So, I look at them keeping Dean as hardass as he is now (and I do think that there’s a very good chance that Dean will be doing the tests now and Sam providing the knowledge). That, along with the potential they have opened up for new mythology and putting the brothers as hunter royalty, are well worth the trade-off.
Now, mind you, I think if there is even the slightest possibility of F’ing up this new set-up, the Show will certainly take it. I fully expect Garth (with the constant mentions of him) to be put in charge of the bunker and still be called on when the boys need help.
I would much rather see Sam step into his role as the sole-surviving preceptor, providing Dean the knowledge needed to take on the big bads. In my mind, that in no way means that Sam can’t join Dean on hunts and do things like they do now — and I can see a lot of fun in that when, for instance, Dean comes up with some out-of-the-box solution when things go to Hell and Sam doing the WTH, Dude, stuff.
But, no, I don’t think it will go that way. We’ll have Garth and Charlie instead and there goes any opportunity to introduce new, realistic characters that actually fit the show.
As far as the Aquarian Star, I believe there was one of those on Mary’s charm bracelet, too, but I don’t think that means a thing. I’ll have to loot at that episode to make sure, though.
Bobby’s library and the Campbell library? My guess is that those are gone and forgotten by the writers. Perhaps Garth will show up with them one day. Who knows. He’s so smart and clever, though, I’m assuming he taught himself Latin, Japanese, and other ancient languages.
Singer says the tablets will eventually fit into this new mytharc. I’m checking out the purchase of bridges as we speak. The plot remains too slowly developed and the pacing sucks, but I do have the feeling they THINK they know what they are doing.
Singer’s interview didn’t bother me as much as they usually do, but there were things in there that were mystifying. He talked like they actually do have a loose plan. But when he started talking about how Amelia was a great character and added so much to Sam’s story, I thought he probably has the beginnings of dementia. And, of course, the talk of Charlie and Garth’s return makes me want to barf.
I have no idea why there was no mention of Cas. I don’t really care, as that mytharc is so weak, that I’ve lost interest, and I can take or leave Cas. I do like his interactions with Dean, so enjoy him when he’s around.
I did like that they kept this episode dark and without the usual inserted comedic relief. Dark, I thought, was fitting tone for the whole thing (especially when I think of Dean cutting a corpse into pieces).
Still, despite the flaws in the episode and the looming being pissed off because they will drop all the opportunities running through my mind (which I have no doubt they will), I liked the potentiality that this episode presented…and I’m choosing to bask in those happy thoughts before I get pissed off again…which will, no doubt, be with next week’s episode.
I will continue to watch the show as long as Dean as this ruthless, hardcore hunter. Once his love interest is introduced, I’ll check out.
Sam has become useless in a fight and DEAN is less interested in books ( I do think it’s a big flaw that neither had a journal ). So it makes sense that Sam would gravitate to the scholarly side of things. Maybe he can form a team with Charlie and Garth, and Dean can have a field team with Benny and castiel. I predict there will be new knowledge that will provide answers to saving both of Dean’s friends.
When a 127 year old extremely wise man tells you that his lifes work and his family’s lifes work is better off gone forever, rather than have it fall into demonic hands, then he dies by demon… better listen. Also, Sam was stupid to spill do much info without demon tests. The wife screamed demon.
My guess that there are more unholy knights. Abbadon is a fallen angel, as is Azazel. Since YED was charged with carrying out direct orders from Lucifer, I am sure he is one. I thought Lilith was not an angelic name, she was adam’s first wife, and she was a pawn in the game since her role was to fight sam and die. However I did a quick search for the names associated with the 200 fallen angels, and Lilith is one. Alastair and naomi are not. Of course, one can call oneself anything. Alastair certainly had a very important role in the plan since he corrupted the righteous man. I have pretty much thought naomi could be a fallen angel from the get go; and I have always gotten that vibe from Crowley. Interestingly amy is the name of a fallen angel.
According to historic texts, not all fallen angels followed Lucifer.
I need to rewatch because abbadon could have gotten the key easily in the beginning. Do you think she wanted Henry dead and the key in Winchester hands?
Actually, Dean does have a journal (It was mentioned in season one), but it’s rarely mentioned. I think the last time there was any hint of it was in “Adventures in Babysitting,” when Dean admitted that John’s entry in his journal was wrong about Vetala (because John had happened to kill the one surviving Vetala of a pair and assumed they were solitary). Dean was the only living Hunter to know that Vetala always hunted in pairs, but he had never bothered to correct John’s assumption (which makes sense in light of their relationship) and had apparently not realized his father’s mistake had been spread throughout the Hunter community as gospel truth.
Again, if you think back to how isolated the brothers were before season two, that makes sense, as well. Dean probably hasn’t had time to sit down and collate the contents of his journal with his father’s and correct John’s errors. That is, in part, because Dean’s not a huge fan of that kind of introspective research. Not only does he prefer forward motion in what research he has to do, but it likely smacks of hubris to him. He would be forced, yet again, to face his father’s feet of clay. The fact that he has a head full of knowledge that could help so many other Hunters probably has simply never occurred to Dean (and apparently hasn’t occurred very often to the showrunners). In that sense, John, Bobby and even Sam have been incredibly selfish in hogging Dean as a resource, and have probably caused a lot of unnecessary deaths by putting him down and not encouraging him to share that information more.
Ugh, that stupid Robert Singer interview makes me so sad and angry. That guy should just keep his mouth shut. It makes me damn furious to being lead to believe that all character development we got in the first half of the season was just for – hell I don’t even know what for – laughs? Getting the episodes to 45 minutes lengths? Really, how can he seriously think that having the characters revert back is something good? Ugh, I could scream and cry. Why did we even watch the first half of the season if there isn’t more to it and the boys just go back to being co-dependent as hell and having no outside relationships? Really, that interview. Every little things he says makes me sick to my stomach. The only good thing I took from that interview was the homebase. Everything else makes me want to turn into the incredible Hulk all over again.
I am still holding on to my hope that it’s just Singer bullshit talking and Carver having a plan, but with Singer and that seemingly very influential position I feel like the boys will never get the chance to really grow. And also, I’m almost a 100% sure at this point, if Singer was the showrunner, Cas would be dead by now and he wouldn’t be coming back. Seriously, how can that guy care so little about the supporting characters? Or if he does only about the ones I feel like throwing up over time and time again, because they are so freaking stupid?
Ugh, I’m sorry guys. I got carried away a little bit. I’m just really sad and furious at the moment.
Yeah, I’m hulking right there with you.
@FriendOfaFriend- are you talking about the Huffington Post interview or another version? And what did he say exactly about the character regression- was it the part about them being loners?
Singer’s interviews are almost as annoying nowadays as Sera’s used to be. His blatant Sam bias just exacerbates my frustration. Unfortunately, I’m not finding Carver to be any more interested in talking about Dean; he’s just a little more coherent during the interviews.
I truly hate Singer interviews now, and have hated them for at least a year. Surprisingly, I am finding a lot of fans are furious with his Huff Post interview; he sure has stirred the fandom up. He is the worst type of bro-only fan, who only reads bro-only and Sam fans’ posts, who doesn’t want other characters, wants Sam and Dean to be only by themselves for fear there may be chemistry with someone else, and mainly talks about the Sam and Dean bromance, has pre-season 1ideas about Sam’s and Dean’s personality and intelligence, and doesn’t manage to instill much excitement about the actual story.
Carver manages to instill a sense of excitement in the story; he talks about all characters in his interviews, and he very rarely refers to just the Sam and Dean bond.
But who’s in charge? Do we go with the Carver version which was all several months ago– so ancient history to this show–or do we go with the recent Singer version?
We go with what appears onscreen. I’d be cautious about what Singer says. He said a lot of things about Sam realizing a big family destiny in last night’s episode that angered a lot of fans. But that destiny ultimately looked pretty bibro to me.
I also think it’s interesting that Dean is finally going to have a home of his own. That was John’s dearest wish for him.
Yes, we had heard for months how there would be something revealed that would especially be relevant for one of the brothers. This didn’t seem to be the case. Also, months ago, the CW publicist, Suzanne Gomez, had said that there was a very emotional talk between the brothers at the end. Again, it wasn’t all that emotional, but more like remembering and discussing their father. So the advance publicity for this episode seemed designed to pacify a specific section of the fanbase, but in reality what the episode actually revealed was that the Winchesters would be heirs to very rich lore, and a very cool place. That is they are finally not forced to live in a car, or Bobby’s place is not their only ever home. In a way, subtly, this is showing the Winchesters are growing up, coming into their own, elite legacy, becoming the human royalty in the fight against the bad supernaturals.
What remains to be seen is if and how this will tie in with Carver’s original vision of the brothers also growing up as individuals, how they will reconcile with the supernaturals that are not bad (Benny, Cas). If Singer is to be believed, there would seem too much of a jarring break after ten episodes of this season. That may or may not turn out to be true.
Concerning the conversation–that was supposed to be a huge blowup not a heart-to-heart, and some fans have speculated recently that the spoilers were off by a couple of episodes. The theory is that the fight actually occurs in 8.14, which would make it over the trials.
A more positive spec–since Dean is supposed to be the “brawn,” and the first trial is supposed to be one of unquestioned brawn, this episode leans heavily toward Dean being the one to do the trials, while Sam plays Giles to Dean’s Buffy.
I wouldn’t get into a sweat about Singer. I don’t think he spends much time with the writers. He may have old information, not pay attention or say things in a way that is open for interpretation. His TV guide interview this summer was absolutely incorrect ( Crowley sent cas to purgatory and Dean was collateral damage). In the recent Ew interview he said that they uad never had a home base. Well it looked like Bobby’s very much was. I also think he tries to do damage control and samgirls insisting that Dean is only about Sam scream the loudest. Samelia was so awful one must believe it had a purpose. I also firmly believe that the significant triangle was Dean, Benny and Sam.
I had no issue with Dean wanting to save Sam. He may not like him but he is his brother. With castiel, benny, garth and Even with Charlie it seems he enjoys spending time with anyone
besides Sam. I also noticed DEAN APOLOGIZED to Henry after clobbering him and incapacitating him.
Interesting observations regarding the date in the text in LARP (the day before Dean’s birthday) and the fact that he is an Aquarius, in regards to the Masonic symbol. One can hope that it is significant. Interesting to that abbadon was focusing her mind reading on Dean. And yes he was equally Flirty with both man and woman.
The Aquarius symbol is probably astrological. Astrology has been very popular among Occultists and now New Age folks.
Well could refer to the constellation, Dean…. is the moon still in the seventh house, and Jupiter aligned with Mars?
I do recall the vetala Intel but got the hint that DEAN had not written it down, being the character less likely to infodump. I had forgotten that he had a journal.
Google tells me that the occult meaning of the aquatian symbol is KNOWLEDGE
According to io9′s review, this was the symbol of aleister Crowley’s order
Here is the sneak peak for next week. It the ‘Batcave’ as Dean puts it. And as he is Batman, he so belongs there.
What a beautiful place. And notevil can be there. Hehehe…eat your heart out Crowley!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BooxJkpQNL4
I am impressed with the Batcave. Obviously, if they spent the money on that, they plan two more years of the show.
I am so hoping that with this single repository of all supernatural knowledge (conveniently placed in the USA) that the writers don’t take the route that this as a ready-made research center with ready-made answers for Sam to find. These writers have made it a habit to do lazy writing, and it worries me that this is a quick fix for killing off Bobby.
Now, mind you, I didn’t mind losing Bobby (more than ready for that), but I don’t want (a) all answers to be readily available or (b) Garth invited in to take Bobby or Sam’s place.
And I certainly hope that Singer was joking about Dean (what, 34 now?) puts posters up on his bedroom wall. Please, show, don’t go there. JA has been playing Dean more and more mature ever since he parted with Lisa and particularly now that he has returned from Purgatory. I would find nude calendars, boy bands, strippers, or car posters pretty childish for the Dean we’ve been seeing this season.
What’s so immature about posters? I’ve got calendars all over my walls.
Well, my favorite picture is one cut from the top part of a calendar and framed, but I guess I don’t picture Dean as a home decorator type of guy. Especially when I’m left with a visual of him chopping up a corpse, driving body parts all over the country and burying them in cement. But, hey, if it works for others and the writers get a chuckle out of it, so be it.
When I first saw the Batcave, my first thought was how sad Bobby wasn’t around to see it. Boy, he would have really been able to run the network with that place. And I believe I read that the boys do bring Garth in. And I was surprised cause DJ is currently filming Legit.
Episode titles for episodes 19 and 20
19 – Taxi Driver
20 – Pac-Man Fever
Happy fans are finally doing something for Dean getting a storyline. On twitter it’s the mytharc4dean account and tumblr is also increasingly worried about the brawn comment. Singer really doesn’t know what he’s talking about.