- Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.01: We Need to Talk About Kevin
- Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.02: What’s Up, Tiger Mommy?
- Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.03: Heartache
- Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.04: Bitten
- Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.05: Blood Brothers
- Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.06: Southern Comfort
- Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.07: A Little Slice of Kevin
- Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.08: Hunteri Heroici
- Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.09: Citizen Fang
- Column: Gods and Monsters: Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.10: Torn and Frayed
- Column: Gods and Monsters: Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.11: LARP and the Real Girl
- Column: Gods and Monsters: Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.12: As Time Goes By
- Column: Gods and Monsters: Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.13: Everybody Hates Hitler
- Column: Gods and Monsters: Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.14: Trial and Error
- Column: Gods and Monsters: Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.15: Man’s Best Friend with Benefits
- Column: Gods and Monsters: Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.16: Remember the Titans
- Column: Gods and Monsters: Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.17: Goodbye Stranger
- Column: Gods and Monsters: Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.18: Freaks and Geeks
- Column: Gods and Monsters: Recap and Review: Supernatural 8.19: Taxi Driver
By Paula R. Stiles
[spoilers ahoy for several seasons]
Tagline: Medieval fantasy reenactments! Fairies! Dean in costume and a bad wig! Charlie! Okay, forget Charlie – Dean with a honking huge sword! Join me in SCA Land come Wednesday night!
Recap: Rather boring recap of Charlie Bradbury (the self-important hacker from “The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo”), Samelia and Denny.
Cut to Now and a Doomed Teaser Guy declaiming in dramatic style to someone named ‘Lance’ on the phone. They’re arguing. He then hangs up after insisting, “It’s just a game!” Ignoring Lance’s callback his cell phone, he goes to bed. In the middle of the night, he wakes to the sound of invisible horses. A tattoo of the White Tree of Gondor from Lord of the Rings (which is probably a takeoff of the Norse World Tree, Yggdrasil) appears on his arm. Then he’s drawn and quartered by said phantom equines. An offscreen blood spatter incident occurs.
Cut to night on the road. Dean is driving and Sam is moping on shotgun. “China Grove” by The Dooby Brothers (which, by the way, references Jared Padalecki’s hometown of San Antonio) plays loudly on the soundtrack. Sam is whining that they don’t have a quick way to translate the tablet. Dean is apologizing one more freakin’ time to Sam for interrupting his adulterous nookie with Amelia. Please stop, show. Please.
Well, at least it’s scored to a nice song. And I’m curious about why Dean is utterly silent about Benny. And I do mean utterly. It’s as if Dean is focusing Sam on his breakup with Amelia to distract Sam from Benny and going after him, or sending someone else after him. That might even explain why Dean feels he has to keep apologizing. If so, Sam is more than dumb enough to fall for it.
Sam then gets a call from Garth Sue. I say “Garth Sue” because Garth not only has a hunt for them, but is able to track them via their cell phones’ gps signals. Worse yet, Dean finds this amusing. Ugh. I do so love when the show shoves stupid characters down my throat and insists they’re geniuses, don’t you?
Fortunately, that’s the last we hear of asshat Garth for the episode.
The case is in Farmington, MI, where the brothers enter the scene of DTG’s drawing and quartering. They encounter a laid-back, rotund cop with a beard who is skeptical of any fantastical explanations for all the blood spatter on the wall and the armless, legless victim looking like the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. He dismisses the downstairs neighbor who heard horses as her being a whackjob. Seems DTG was named “Ed” (Is that like Ed and Harry, the Ghostfacers, or Mr. Ed the horse?) and was an insurance claims adjuster.
While Dean (“I work alone”) scopes out the rest of the house with his EMF meter, Sam interviews the cop. The cop mocks Ed as a nerd who lived alone with his “toys” and refers to some nearby armor as “chain mail.” A nerdy medievalist’s aside – it’s just “mail” and the fastest way to look like an idiot is to call it “chain mail.” According to the OED, we have Sir Walter Scott of Ivanhoe infamy to thank for that redundant term. Of course we do.
Sam discovers the tree tattoo on one of DTG’s detached arms, while Dean finds no EMF or sulfur or hex bags, etc. in the house. The cop tells them about a lead on the cell phone. Apparently, there were some very hostile texts going back and forth between Ed and his phone-tag buddy Lance, all in high-flown language. The cop figures Lance is the killer. Somehow. And he’s got him at the station. The brothers insist on getting to interview him, first.
The cop, for all his amusing snark, comes off like an Author Insert Character and there is a whole lot of author snobbery about fantasy geeks in this episode. This kind of attitude among sci-fi and fantasy writers has always amused and annoyed me – you write for a TV show about demons and ghosts and monsters, but you make fun of people who like to spend their spare time playing around in the fantasy genre? I.e., your fans? Really? What’s the criterion for making fun of them, here, that you make money off it and they do it for free? So, what?
It’s like writing a show about baseball, but you think fans who go to the games are sad losers. I don’t think the fans are the losers. I do think clutching your pearls over the fact that people like your worldbuilding enough to want to live in it a little is pretty silly (and no, persistently calling it a Crapsack World doesn’t discourage them). Do you want people to like your story or not?
The cop, who is a sheriff, then says, “These kids today with their texting and murder.” Ouch. I’m guessing this episode was written and filmed before the Connecticut school shootings, huh? Because otherwise, that sounds really crass.
At the station, Lance is a nice, nebbishy guy who is broken up over his friend’s death. Hmm, not exactly necromancer material. After the brothers get him to calm down, they ask him about the texts. He says it was part of a game. He and Ed were LARPers (Live Action Role Playing). Lance says that Ed was “Lancelot to my Merlin,” which I suppose is intended to be a reference to the British show, Merlin, where they are friends (though the main friendship is still between Merlin and Arthur). However, in legend, they’re not close and this statement therefore comes off as rather odd.
Lance says that the RPG they were playing was called “Moondoor” (“Mordor,” har-har). He and Ed were vying for membership in the honor guard of Moondoor’s queen, for a battle that weekend, and Lance was angry at Ed because he thought Ed was cheating. There’s an amusing bit where the brothers try to dope out if Lance is into black magic (He’s not) or even knows about black magic (He doesn’t), without coming off as crazy, and Dean looks heavenward very nervously when Lance starts calling on fake pagan gods in his grief. Satisfied that Lance is just a guy playing a fantasy game, they leave him in the interview room to go have a chat.
Dean figures Lance wasn’t faking the tears and didn’t take the opportunity to magically attack them (Well, Dean did face off against that sorcerer in the clown episode, so he’d expect that). Sam then sits down at a convenient public computer in the station (?!) and looks up the Moondoor site. The brothers immediately find photos of Lance at a banquet the night before, confirming his alibi. Dean thinks it looks like fun (but hides it from a skeptical Sam).
The brothers are in for a shock, though, when they check out a video on the site and find out that the Queen of Moondoor is none other than annoying guest star, Charlie Bradbury.
Meanwhile, in the interview room, Lance gets the tree tattoo on his arm, coughs up some blood, bleeds from the eyes, screams at his reflection, and drops dead.
Later, as Lance is being wheeled out in a body bag, the Sheriff is commenting that he’s going to use a lot of hand sanitizer, after he shows the brothers the CCTV footage of Lance’s violent demise. Right, because the time to start worrying about communicable diseases is after everybody involved with handling the body has stuck it in a bag and rolled right on past without so much as wearing a face mask, let alone latex gloves or Hazmat suits. Though I can understand his confusion. The test results later come back saying that Lance died of belladonna poisoning. I can partly understand both the Sheriff’s paranoia and Dean and Charlie’s assumption that it was the porn star of the same name, since that poison doesn’t cause those symptoms – though Ebola does.
Meanwhile, Sam discovers the same symbol on Lance’s arm that was on Ed’s. So, off they go to Moondoor (which is set up in a field in a public park) to look up Charlie. There, they find a guy in sort-of knight’s gear, calling himself “Baltar the Furious” (“Baltar” as in Battlestar Galactica? Gee, how subtle) and haranguing a guy in plastic ears and teeth in a stocks for being a thief, whom he bonks with a red bean bag, yelling, “Silentium!” when the thief gets to obstreperous. The lisping thief loses his teeth, so Baltar retrieves them from the mud, brushes them off, and puts them back in. This grosses Dean out, though the “Shadow Orc” is grateful and calls Baltar “Jerry.”
Baltar/Jerry immediately figures the brothers for being fake FBI agents because their suits are cheap and the numbers on their IDs are off (Baltar/Jerry must not work for the government if he thinks that’s proof of much). Anyhoo, the brothers smoothly change their con to go along with his assumption that they are cross-genre LARPing and he doesn’t notice. Baltar’s a little slow. And pompous.
He shows off the second trait when they ask where they can find the Queen. He says they’d have to work their way up the ladder, normally, but she’s auditioning new squires down the way. So, off they go.
Cut to a knight kicking some guy’s ass in a (intentionally?) lamely-choreographed swordfight. Short version of why it’s lame: In real swordfights, the combatants tried to hit each other and not each other’s swords, only doing the latter thing when blocking the opponent’s sword. And you don’t do that by blocking edge to edge unless you want a seriously hacked-up sword. In stagefighting, of course, you usually do the opposite because the best way not to hit your opponent is to bash swords with him/her.
When the victorious knight takes off “his” helmet, we see it’s Charlie. Charlie’s defeated opponent declares that he loves her and she just smirks, “I know.” I barf. Maybe it was an early sign of the flu.
Charlie goes off on a little speech about how the characters Ed and Lance were playing are missing, so she has some openings in her “honor guard.” She stops in mid-medievalesque-rant when she sees Sam and Dean. As thunder rumbles, Dean gives her a cold smile. Immediately calling a bathroom break, she rushes off to her tent. The brothers follow her, though Dean stops to admire one of the rattan swords, commenting on its balance. I love me a bladed-weapons-lovin’ man.
Inside the tent, Charlie is packing, the thunder still going (It will be gone by the time they leave the tent again). She’s calling herself “Carrie Heinlein” now and figures that character is now as “dead” as Charlie Bradbury was. She rants that the brothers are bad luck to her and she was making a life for herself post-Dick Roman and now they’ve ruined it for her. This is annoying when you consider that, in her previous incarnation, she started off quite happy to help destroy the brothers and even betray the whole human race to the Leviathans for the sake of her job, so you’d think a broken arm would be getting off light. After boo-hooing about being a “monster magnet,” she sticks her crown on Dean’s head and starts to leave. Dean stops her in her tracks by telling her Ed and Lance are dead.
Later, Charlie admits that she knows nothing about the tree symbol, though Ed and Lance weren’t the first in her “army” to suffer accidents. It’s just that the previous accidents weren’t fatal. As far as she knew, Ed and Lance were both “good guys” and solid additions to her honor guard. She has no idea who would want to kill them. Their only enemies were in the game. Her group is the “Followers of the Moon.” The other groups are “Elves,” “Warriors of Yesteryear,” and “Shadow Orcs.” This weekend, they’re having a big battle to determine who wears the “Forever Crown.”
Dean comments that she should move her archers around to cover her flank and Charlie starts to ask him about her “southern wall” before Sam interrupts their strategy geek-out. He suggests that someone from one of the other groups may be using black magic to win, but Charlie points out that they could have just gone after her. Dean then says they should get Charlie to safety while they investigate, but Sam says Charlie is too good a source of information about Moondoor to stay out of it. Dean points out that Sam is usually the one who wants to get civilians out of the situation. Charlie breaks the deadlock by finally getting a spine and admitting she needs to stay and help them out. The Queen would stay to defend her people and Charlie also decides that she’s grown weary of running all the time. Sam then gets the call that confirms Lance was killed by belladonna, even though there’s none in his system.
Sam decides to do some Internet research, but he has to go to the “tech tent” to do it (Charlie reiterates a Baltar/Jerry rant earlier on about there being “rules”). After he leaves, Charlie tells Dean she wants him to fill her in on what the brothers have been up to, but, if he’s going to walk around with her, he’ll have to lose the suit. Dean smiles privately at the thought of getting into “medieval” gear, of which we soon get a montage.
At the tech tent (“Beware: This is a Gateway to the Future”), Sam encounters a young blonde woman named ‘Maria’ AKA Golandria the Wicked (heh), who is dressed somewhat like a Valkyrie. She takes a fancy to him and has ten times as much chemistry with him as Sam ever had with Amelia. She’s also friendly and smart. I like Maria. She can be wicked on my screen, any time. But all Sam does is pump her for info about the accidents (which are all mysterious, involving things like invisible assailants, and all involve the victims having the same tree tattoo) and then turn down her offer to follow her to her tent. Damn, Sam, you totally should have hit that. I bet Dean would have said yes.
Back in Charlie’s tent, she and Dean are having a conversation that will subsequently irritate a great many in the audience. Dean, for God only knows what reason, has told Charlie about sending Sam a fake text to decoy him off to meet Amelia. He apparently has not mentioned being beaten unconscious or left handcuffed to a radiator, because clueless Charlie declares this a “dick move” that has now separated Sam from Amelia forever (No, sweetie, I’m pretty her husband did that). Dean shrugs and says that Sam couldn’t have a normal life, anyway, and needs to be focused on the job. Well…these things are true, and Sam sure made his bed with the whole Benny thing, so why is this Dean’s fault, again, show?
Charlie at least clues in that Dean is not just talking about Sam. Dean finally decides to stop oversharing and claims he didn’t break up with anybody. Which isn’t true (coughLisacoughcough), even without the obvious Castiel and Benny parallels. One interesting part of this conversation is that Dean says a Hunter can’t afford have any “attachments” – and he doesn’t bring up his brother Sam as an exception.
They leave the tent to scope out the area, Dean trading the rattan sword for a very nice waster (wooden Medieval practice sword that is shaped and weighs just like a real one, and can be quite deadly in practiced hands). A female “subject” bows to Charlie as they exit the tent. While they wander, Charlie admits that she got into LARPing to escape the real world and because being a a fake hero is more fun than the real thing. Ick. She says she got into it while playing tabletop RPGs, via a male friend, and “stayed for the chicks” (Um, what happened to her being lesbian? Is the show now claiming she’s bi?). She complains about being a mundane computer tech in the real world. Episode writer Robbie Thompson is aware that most of the people watching this have seen “The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo,” and would recall how venal and cowardly Charlie was in that, right?
We then have Dean stop her and give her a pep talk about how she saved the brothers from Dick Roman. I snort with laughter at this retcon. Bitch, please. Charlie was hired by Dick to crack Crazy Frank’s hard drive and totally screw over the brothers after he caught her using company equipment to hack websites. It was only after the brothers found out and forced her to cooperate with them that she helped them to save her own hide. And after she got off pretty lightly with a broken arm, she boarded a bus, insisting the brothers lose her number forever. Let’s not retcon all that now.
I also am pretty sure that Charlie has already noticed that, for some strange reason, all of the women around her are going lesbian for the Queen, Dean. It’s less clear why none of them are noticing Dean, who is in pretty obvious medievalesque fetish gear. It’s a shame, because Jensen Ackles and Felicia Day do have some nice buddy chemistry, but it’s awfully annoying that so much of their time together involves Dean propping up Charlie’s ego. This is most painfully obvious when Charlie interviews a cute elf and not only does the girl not show any interest in Dean while she’s winking at Charlie, she doesn’t so much as glance at him. Which is bizarre. I’m pretty sure most of the women in the camp would notice Dean standing right there beside Charlie, if only because he looks like the Jolly Green Giant next to her.
At about the same time in the tech tent that Maria is discovering and telling Sam that the only group not affected by the accidents has been the Shadow Orcs, Charlie and Dean have hit a dead end on all the other groups. Dean then gets the idea of “interviewing” the Orc in the stocks by threatening him with the waster. The guy tells them the tree is the family crest of the Shadow King. But the King is in the “Black Hills” (“the forest behind the playground”) and can’t be found. Dean has an idea how to solve that problem, too.
Once they get to the woods and run into Baltar (Charlie tells Baltar Dean is her new “handmaiden”), Dean gives up the pretence of kowtowing to Charlie and takes over. Baltar protests that the woods are dangerous and Dean agrees. Giving Charlie his cell phone, he sends her back to find Sam. Meanwhile, he’ll go with Baltar to hook up with the Shadow Orcs. Charlie whines that she can “help.” Dean says she already is helping by checking in with Sam.
On her way back, Charlie runs into a Shadow Orc and whacks him with a fake magic bean bag. But a more dangerous assailant then attacks her and knocks her out – a tall, cloaked figure with a deer-skull head mask.
Dean and Baltar (who is almost as tall as Dean, despite being rather less robust) arrive back at camp, frustrated. They can’t find the Shadow Orcs. Baltar gets the idea of using the Orc prisoner for an exchange and goes off, after telling Dean to take care of Charlie’s toiletries. Sam then walks up. He and Dean compare notes. Dean mentions the prisoner exchange and claims it was his idea not Baltar’s (though he does mention Baltar). Sam says the tree sign is fairy magic and fails to mention that was Maria’s idea, or even mention Maria. Classy, guys. Dean then asks about Charlie, but Sam hasn’t seen her.
After checking in her tent, Dean grows concerned. He tells Sam to call her, since she has his phone. Cut to Charlie waking up in a small hunting lodge with a fireplace (It’s later called a tent, but it’s really a lodge), Dean’s phone next to her with no signal. The figure in the mask stands nearby. Charlie nervously tries to make small-talk then flees the tent/lodge. But leaving by one door just brings her back in through another. Charlie correctly guesses that this is “real magic” and is pretty freaked out, but tries to keep her cool. She admits she’s not a real queen and fairly calmly asks the creature not to kill her. This fragile calm evaporates when the monster approaches her with outstretched arms and she babbles out her recent history, ending with: “I just want my old life back!” To her surprise, the creature removes its mask to reveal a beautiful woman, who says in a sympathetic tone, “That is what I want, as well.”
That night, the brothers are out in the woods at the prisoner exchange. Dean tells Sam he’s worried about Charlie and the implication is he’ll put whoever might have hurt her in a world of pain. The Shadow Orcs show up and exchange some newsletter business with Baltar, who shouts, “Silence!” to Dean when Dean tries to move things along (Most likely, this is a reference to Jensen Ackles saying this in the blooper reels). Growing impatient, Dean pulls out his pistol and fires it into the ground to show he means business. Frightened, the Shadow King immediately admits that he got his heraldic symbol from one that appeared on his arm during an illness the month before. Sam points out the obvious: “He’s just another vic.” The Shadow King, who is a lawyer in real life, promises not to press charges if Dean lets him go. With a psycho look to ensure this promise, Dean does.
At this point, they get a surprise ally. The Orc prisoner breaks game protocol. Taking his fake teeth out, he quietly asks if Charlie is in real danger. When Dean says yes, the guy says he saw something odd back down the trail – a tent that he didn’t recognize. When Dean asks why he’s helping them, he says he’s got a crush on Charlie. Well, also, I bet he’s just a nice guy who’s smart and observes his surroundings. One thing he hasn’t caught yet, though, is that Charlie is gay and, as Dean puts it, “not his type.”
Back to Charlie and the woman, who turns out to be a fairy, “Gilda…from the Hollow Forest of Arkmore.” And she and Charlie have the hots for each other. Oh, it’s cloaked in high-flown language, but that’s what it boils down to. She insists she’s the “good kind” of fairy and would never hurt anyone willingly. Unfortunately, it seems she’s been enslaved by a “master,” I Dream of Jeannie-style, and “must do his bidding.” This bidding started with small accidents and has now escalated to murder.
Charlie admits that the fantasy trappings here are part of a game to escape the grimness of her own world. The fairy explains that she can’t break the spell herself (“PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS – in an itty-bitty living space!“); a “hero” must break it for her by destroying her “master”‘s book of magic. Charlie immediately volunteers.
Outside, Dean spots a small tent. Upon entering, they find it is the lodge (Like the TARDIS, it is larger on the inside than the outside) and discover Charlie and the Fairy Gilda snogging. Charlie is annoyed by the interruption, but the fairy declares in horror that her “master” has arrived. Not a single Battlestar Galactica fan will be surprised to hear said bad guy is Baltar – or that Baltar is bonkers.
Baltar AKA Jerry is convinced the game is real, so real that he had to summon a fairy to eliminate the competition. He wants to win tomorrow and become Charlie’s King. The brothers pull out their guns, but take a little too long to shoot (Never mind that both have killed human practitioners in black magic without the least hesitation in the past). Baltar orders the fairy to take care of it and Gilda reluctantly turns the guns into feathers with a cluck.
Baltar then orders Gilda to turn his rattan sword into a real one and has Sam grabbed from behind by a suit of armor (Sam does try to talk Baltar down, first, but…well, the guy’s in-game name is ‘Baltar the Furious’). This leaves Dean to fight Baltar with a waster and a tin shield. Charlie tries to get involved, but gets knocked back onto the bed.
Despite not having a really good sword, Dean is still a much better fighter than his opponent and punches him in the face at one point. This knocks the book of spells from Baltar’s belt onto the floor. Gilda urges Charlie to free her by destroying the book, which Charlie does so by stabbing it after some speechifying. Even though there’s a perfectly good fireplace nearby. Yeah, I know – Harry Potter, horcruxes. It’s still dumb.
When Baltar’s sword turns back into a waster, Dean easily disarms him and punches his lights out. Freed, the fairy fails to turn into any kind of horror twist and proves to be Good, after all (Dullsville). She says she’ll bring Baltar with her to face fairy justice and then kisses Charlie goodbye. She and Crazy Dude disappear.
There remains, however, the matter of the Battle for Moondoor. Charlie realizes she’s gotta stop running sometime. Now’s as good a time as any. Unfortunately, that means she’s also date-free and is about to lose her crown in the upcoming battle. Oh, well.
After she leaves, Dean wistfully reflects on when he and Sam used to have fun, asks what they’ll do next, and tries to commiserate with Sam on his recent loss (of a woman who was willing to cheat on her war vet husband. No great loss, methinks). Sam then realizes that maybe “fun” isn’t a dirty word, after all, and they both could use some. Small steps, Sam. Small steps.
Cut to a field of Moondoor and two small armies facing each other. On Charlie’s side, her army is being harangued in true Braveheart fashion by a maniacal-looking Dean in facepaint and a long, blonde wig, essaying a sort-of Scottish accent. Which begs the question of whether Dean won the Kingship by true valor and pants-wetting intimidation, or whether he just pulled a William-Wallace-style coup.
In the back of the army, Charlie asks Sam (also in facepaint. And leather pants) if that’s the speech from Braveheart. Sam says Dean doesn’t know any others (Which reminds me of this scene from Animal House). After a brief frisbee mishap interrupts the proceedings, Dean leads his troops into battle, his tree-sized brother by his side.
And the portentous (or is that pretentious?) voiceover and scroll inform us that the Brothers Winchester did kick mighty ass that day.
Review: I’ll start with the good (okay, classic) – the Braveheart coda was hysterical. That movie is stupid and is right up there with Kingdom of Heaven and Pillars of the Earth on the medievalist’s MSTK list. Still, the speech is a quotable feast and the frisbee-interrupted takeoff of it in the coda reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail in a great way. Also, nice bagpipes and voiceover/scroll at the end and the set design was lovely, as usual. I especially enjoyed eyeballing the Queen and the Fairy’s respective lodgings. Perhaps they were a bit rich for the actual setting in the first case, but no big.
Sadly, the previous forty minutes were not so great. Even if Dean was hot in faux-medieval gear for much of it and I happen to own, not only one of those rattan swords, but a waster, a couple of bokken, and a jo. As well as a real, honest-to-goodness Fulani sword.
Let’s get the big reason out of the way. The timing of this episode, right after “Torn and Frayed,” was a serious misstep. Its pointlessness and off-the-chain Guest Character worship might have worked better somewhere else in the season. Anywhere else. Despite all the attempts from the show to make this character sound like the Second Coming of John Winchester, Charlie is really more like Garth – a Mary Sue who generates mixed feelings, at best, among the fandom.
Sure, she has fans (Some of them aren’t even Felicia Day fans). Every character on this show, however unpopular, has fans. And she’s no Ruby in the fanhate department. But she’s no John, either. She’s not even an Ellen. And one such problem shows up in her sexual orientation. I’m sorry, show, but I have yet to meet a girl who likes other girls, fictional or real, who prefers to spend most of her time around admiring ugly fanboys. Or who treats other women basically like sex objects and nothing else. I’m sure such women exist, but those BPD kind of gals don’t strike me as heroic or sympathetic or even particularly watchable. So, that just screams, “Mary Sue!” to me.
Also, as someone pointed out on TwoP, why does she keep using male surnames? She’s gay not transsexual. And why is she the only butch girl with lines in an episode littered with adoring, one-dimensional femmes? In fact, why does she sound more like a geeky fanboy than a geeky fangirl? I mean, how many women talk about hitting on “chicks” all the time? Being a lesbian doesn’t mean you’re a guy in a woman’s body.
All the male side characters had far more dimension (or, for that matter, lines) than any of the female characters who weren’t named “Charlie Bradbury,” with the sole exception of the fairy (who was a Jeannie-style Damsel in Distress) and Maria (who existed to be an Exposition Fairy and to get turned down flat by Sam). It wasn’t quite as bad as the female-free “The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo,” but it still was not good. Charlie comes off as a male geek fantasy of a lesbian, not a real female character, to me. Is this really the writer who gave us Ezra?
Not helping are Charlie’s narcissism, stupidity and cowardice, all on full display in this episode. First, there is her questionable backstory. She supposedly is a mistress of disguise and disappearing, yet she blathers out her entire backstory to a complete stranger whom she believes is about to kill and eat her. Then there’s her hiding in plain sight as the most prominent character in the game – which happens to feature her a lot on its website. Smooth move, Ex-Lax. I’m sure Dick Roman never would have found you there.
Second, she basks in the attention of false heroism, having fled with no remorse from an actual chance to save the world (No, Dean’s reassurance that she helped the brothers bring down Dick Roman doesn’t give me story-induced amnesia about the fact that she started out trying to cook their goose, simply to keep her own job). It’s not until she hears that two people from her little group have died, and after she’s strongarmed into “helping” the brothers with their research, that she is willing to stay. Even then, the “help” the episode’s writing has her lend is embarrassingly coincidental and has little to do with any inner worth. These are not the contradictions of a “real” character, but feel more like the kind of inconsistencies you see when a writer doesn’t think through his/her character properly.
And the joke about her being irresistible to every woman and man in the place is just…really? Charlie is no more likely to turn a straight woman gay than Dean is likely to turn a gay woman straight (and the latter implication would be superoffensive). Sexual orientation is hardwired. Yes, there’s experimentation, but good God. Most of the women in a medievalesque setting like RenFair are expecting to get with men, both because most people are straight or at least bi, and because the medievalesque setting is usually about exaggerated gender roles – tall and strong knights, fair and hapless damsels, that sort of thing. They are not generally what you’d call progressive in that area. Yes, some women dress up as knights and fight in battles, but, in my experience, they are the exception to the rule. It’s only been fairly recently that women in general have been allowed to dress up and fight as knights, just as guys weren’t exactly welcoming toward girls playing D&D and other RPGs until the past decade or so.
Plus, Moondoor appears to be full of geeky straight men and attractive gay women, which strikes me as a recipe for misery for everyone. Really, not one girl -hell, not one guy – found Dean attractive? I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy that. Felicia Day is sweet and all, but she is no female Jensen Ackles. Making Charlie such a gay Mary Sue doesn’t make her as different from Becky Rosen as the writers think. She’s still skeevy and not in a good way. Something about her just screams, “I can’t be trusted to respect personal boundaries!” to me.
Maybe I’m just jaded from watching Torchwood and Lost Girl, not to mention Dax on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, but I get the impression the show writers thought this mere idea of this character was a lot more groundbreaking than it was and, thus, didn’t bother to put in the necessary work to make her a living, breathing character that people would like, above and beyond the stuntcasting and stunt sexual orientation.
It would be really nice if this show started portraying its side characters with a little more heroism and a little less Mary Sue. More Mama Tran, less Garth. Just sayin’. It might also help to not try to shove characters down the audience’s throats. Just introduce them and see how they go. The ones people seem to like, keep. The ones they don’t, don’t. Simple.
And even if the CW promo department hadn’t given away the villain in the promos for that fight scene involving Dean, we probably should have realized he was the baddie when he – gasp! – spotted the brothers’ fake IDs (Forsooth!). Not to mention his Captain Obvious in-game avatar name. Somehow, I think he wouldn’t have noticed a thing if he hadn’t already been primed to believe they were LARPing. And that joke was lifted straight from the beginning of season four’s “The Monster at the End of This Book,” anyway. Come on, show, you’ve been down this LARP road at least twice, already. It’s not new. Come up with some fresh jokes or stop doing it. And while you’re at it, this is a horror show, is it not? Well, a little gore in the beginning and some swashbuckling at the end are not very horrific.
On rewatch, this wasn’t as annoying as it was on first run-through, but the first ten minutes were still unnecessarily tedious set-up. I also thought they could have done a lot more with the LARPing beyond rehashing previous episodes. Sometimes, this show lays out just the right details to put us in that setting (such as a previous entry by this episode writer, “Time After Time,” which evoked the 40s exceedingly well). Other times, that setting never really comes alive. This was in the other category.
I was looking forward to the medievalesque sendup, but I found it a bit disappointing, aside from the coda. As in her previous episode, Charlie’s shallow geekery smacked of trying too hard and many opportunities were lost. I expected, for example, a whole lot more Monty Python references (What, no coconuts, cute and scary bunnies, or glossalia spoofs?). Someone on the boards mentioned a Robin of Sherwood ref (The fairy’s disguise, I’m guessing), but there should have been shoutouts to the legend of Robin Hood all over the place, not to mention Richard Lionheart and Ivanhoe, more C.S. Lewis than just a few red tabards, the Brothers Grimm and Disney. You know, instead of super-obvious Tolkien ripoffs that, in all fairness, should have got the show sued if Dungeons and Dragons hadn’t beaten them to it by about three decades.
Similarly, where the hell were the more obscure references to the SCA (the Society for Creative Anachronism, for those of you who don’t know), King Arthur, chansons, Shakespeare…come on. They could have done so much more with this. I knew this wasn’t going anywhere good when the second victim claimed that Doomed Teaser Guy was “Merlin to my Lancelot.” Seriously? Merlin’s attached to Arthur not Lancelot, dumbass. Lancelot’s all about Guinevere. I think there are even stories where Merlin has left Camelot by the time Lancelot arrives, especially since Lancelot’s a rather late addition to the legends. My best guess is that this was supposed to be a reference to the British show, Merlin, in which Merlin and Lancelot were friends, that missed how the endgame bromance was Merlin and Arthur, even in that version of the story.
The mockery of LARPing struck me as unkind and rather ignorant. It’s been called “reenactment” for a lot longer than it’s been called “Live Action Role Playing.” Similarly, people were dressing up as Captain Kirk and the Borg (or, if we really want to take it back, as saints, spirits, gods, goddesses, and demons) long before anyone coined the term “cosplay.” Are we going to make fun of Kabuki and Javanese shadow plays, next, show?
My cousin and I used to run around in the woods, bashing each other up with sticks and bicycle chains and plexiglass light sabers our grandfather had made by wrapping electrical tape around one end (He even made one that lit up by fitting them with a penlight, but they weren’t as sturdy) and pretending we were amnesiac pirates running from evil empires. Didn’t make us weird or unstable. Just made us kids with healthy imaginations.
About the only good thing with that was the ease with which Dean fell into the medieval role play and how happy he seemed to be doing it (Note that Sam didn’t. Perhaps the show wanted us to make fun of Dean by having Sam play the straight man). In fact, he seemed more at ease with it than Charlie, even discussing Dungeons & Dragons-style military strategy with her. This reminds us both that Dean is a real warrior and that he is also an unabashed geek. I’m surprised he never corrected Charlie on her rather sloppy Vulcan hand greetings. The dude’s a total Trekkie.
I don’t believe he was actually wearing hose, there. Those looked more like trousers to me. This is hose. And this. And, uh, this. In modern times, when portraying men’s medieval clothing on TV and in film, the costume designers usually “butch” things up by turning hose into trousers, but hose was a different thing. And, in large part, that was because medieval clothing for men involved long tunics as the main garment over the hose, like this for quite a long time (though the length did vary over the centuries and from place to place or station to station. For example, monks, like women, kept it floor-length). Toward the Renaissance period, shorter, more scandalous tunics so as to show off a certain part of the male anatomy became popular among the rich, culminating in a relatively short period when codpieces and merkins became all the rage.
The episode also fell into the usual traps with medievalesque settings – it had to be magical fantasy, because most Americans can’t connect to realistic fiction about the Middle Ages unless it’s in the mystery field (I run into this a lot when trying to sell science fiction stories set in that period). And everybody involved with a speaking part was a knight or royalty or a non-human brigand. While that certainly occurs in these medievalesque reenactment groups (“RenFair,” by the way, is inaccurate as a term, since these fairs are usually a takeoff of the Middle Ages rather than of just the Renaissance, as the name implies), some SCA groups do try to have a more realistic view of the Middle Ages – you know, where 99% of the society wasn’t noble, wasn’t involved in the military culture at all, and didn’t care. Others continue the 19th century lords and ladies thing. I guess the show just went with the latter. Boring.
Then there was the fairy. She was problematical in several ways. First, since when are Supernatural fairies sweet and moral and caring about human body counts? The fairies we saw in “Clap Your Hands If You Believe” were vicious, cunning, pernicious, and all about screwing over any humans with which they dealt – up to and including murder. Which fits the old Celtic legends quite well. If she’s a “good fairy,” a clear reference to the “bad” fairies of the previous episode would have been nice. Ignoring the previous episode as if it had never existed was not so nice.
Second, the spell used to bring the previous fairies to earth was completely different from the one used on the fairy in “LARP and the Real Girl.” It was a deal between them and someone who summoned them; they were under no compulsion to leave (In fact, they had to be forced by a reversal spell to go back); and they took firstborns in payment. Here, firstborns weren’t even mentioned (Neither was Dean’s ability to see fairies, not so much as a word); the fairy girl was upset about being “forced” to kill humans; and there was no deal between her and Sir Dork. I kept waiting and waiting for some kind of twist to occur where we’d find out the fairy was in it with the dork, but, nope, straightforward as an episode of Merlin.
Third, just what kind of fairy was she? The fairies in “Clap Your Hands If You Believe” were clearly defined types from folklore. What the hell was this chick even supposed to be? Her Herne-the-Hunter-by-way-of-the-Knights-Who-Say-Ni getup was promising, but it went nowhere once she unmasked herself and became just another Damsel in Distress with powers and a pretty frock.
Fourth, what happened to spilling salt or sugar in front of a fairy to subdue him/her? Did Robbie Thompson even watch “Clap Your Hands If You Believe”? I think the only thing he picked up from that episode was the whole fairies=gay joke, which wasn’t any classier this time round.
I’d like to believe Charlie’s “lesson” in this one about no longer running away from her problems is foreshadowing for Sam down the road, perhaps even that the fairy’s imprisonment and love for Charlie is a parallel for Castiel and Dean, but I’m not holding my breath. Not only did we have Dean apologizing to Sam again about Amelia, and Sam bemoaning his fate (and Charlie insisting that Dean has ruined puir Sammy’s life, ’cause I guess Dean doesn’t deserve a life of his own), but most of Charlie’s interactions were with Dean. And if there’s one thing Dean doesn’t need, it’s lessons on not running away. No, really, when did he even ever do that?
Since Sam wasn’t around much for Charlie deciding not to flee reality, I don’t see how he could have taken that lesson to heart. And Castiel? Wasn’t even mentioned (unless you count Charlie’s perfunctory love affair with the fairy as an anvil for Dean and Castiel). You’d think he hadn’t just gone back to Heaven for more lobotomizing last week. And I doubt we’ll ever see Dean and Castiel snog on this show. Though, if they do, I trust they’ll show a bit more enthusiasm than Charlie and the fairy did. That makeout session was pretty silly.
Speaking of which, is Dean aware that Amelia’s married? To a war vet, no less? I don’t recall it even being mentioned. If not, is it that the writers honestly don’t have any problem with such a despicable thing Sam and Amelia were doing behind her husband’s back, or is there a huge soap revelation down the road when Dean finds out what Sam did and blows up at him (Doesn’t help that Sam had more chemistry with Maria in one scene than Amelia in ten episodes)? Much as I’m tired of Samelia, it would be a relatively clean way of bringing up Dean’s bitterness about Sam ditching him in Purgatory, which has gotta be still percolating around down there somewhere. Come on, show, don’t tell me you’re going to forget every bit of continuity from the past eight seasons but Samelia and that stupid text.
Fun lines:
Lance: I told them when they brought me in – those texts weren’t from me.
Sam: Well, your phone and Ed’s phone say otherwise.
Lance: No, I mean, they were from me, but they weren’t from me me!
Dean: Did you really think that sentence was gonna clear things up?
Lance: He was Lancelot to my Merlin.
Dean: This could be 50 Shades of Greyfox, for all we know.
Defeated Knight: I love you!
Charlie: I know.
Dean: Sam, I think we can take care of a bunch of accountants with foam swords.
Dean [to Charlie]: You take my phone; find Sam. We’ll find the Shadow Dorks.
Charlie [to the MOTW]: Look, I am not really a queen. I’m just an IT girl. Standing in front of a monster. Asking it not to kill her.
Charlie [after being caught snogging the fairy]: Dudes! If the tent is rockin’, don’t come a-knockin’!
Charlie: I gotta face reality from now on. Sadly, reality includes monsters, but what are you gonna do?
Dean: If dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance…
Charlie: Is that the speech from -
Sam: It’s the only one he knows.
Dean …just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they will never take -
Knight: Hold!
Guy Retrieving His Frisbee: My bad!
Dean – OUR FREEDOM! [with the whole army, charging] HAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
Voiceover: This episode is dedicated to the men, women, elves, demigods, magi, druids, and chamber pot servants who gave their lives fighting and winning for the Queen of Moons in the Battle of Kingdoms. Go bravely into the next world, fallen soldiers…
Next Week: The brothers’ paternal grandfather appears from fifty years in the past in their motel room, demanding to see their father.
You can watch (or download) this episode, in standard or HD definition, on Amazon.com.
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Thanks for the review Paula. I know they take a long time to do. For me after the reveal of the special snowflake’s seasonal pass last week, this episode was a good diversion, except for Carver having to rub Dean fans noses in the fact Dean was being so mean to Sam by sending the text. As if we didn’t catch that the first time around.
And no I don’t expect any more to be said about it. Once again, the Dean-fans have been cheated and now I’m sure no one will ever believe Sam will ever change. He is going to be a 15 year old for his entire life.
I dislike Carver having Garth replace Bobby. Garth is no where near the quality of Bobby and really is a second insult to Bobby. Not only didn’t he bring Bobby back but now it seems he feels Bobby’s network was some kind of a joke thinking Garth is good enough to do it.
As for SamIHate, I can’t believe they have shown Sam as pining for his cheating married girlfriend for two reasons. First Sam dumped her. He’s the one who never returned. And that was the second time he dumped her. Not too much love involved if you dump her twice after showing up for one more bootie call. Maybe that’s what has him sad. No more bootie calls. And second I still can’t believe they had her as married and to a vet no less. What kind of message are they sending to YA? I don’t know what other YA series include but for me that’s just horrible. And who knows if Dean knows or not. Given what Carver has done to Dean, no reason Dean would find that worse that the other stuff Sambutt has done. Sam gets away with everything.
And I think it’s appalling that the didn’t show Dean feeling guilty over abandoning Benny. Dean broke one of his moral codes and they show him as acting like it was totally ok to do.
I also didn’t feel ANYONE should be dealing with Sam especially after Martin. Dean is the leader of those two so Garth should be calling Dean, not Sambutt. And what’s with Sam deciding when Dean can have fun or not. He didn’t even want Dean alive a while back.
The whole image TPTB are portraying about Sam is so wrong. I wish just one person of importance would come forth and say ‘hey guys, you need to clean up your act.’ I had hoped that was Carver but I think now we all know that this is what all involved with the show want Sam to be. Maybe the previous poster was right. This is written in JP’s contract.
Strictly speaking, Supernatural is not in any way, shape or form a YA show. It regularly gets rated TV-14 and TV-MA. While it certainly has teen viewers, it’s noted for having an older audience, much older. And the gore and adult themes are not very different from premium cable shows like Spartacus or The Walking Dead, which also have teen viewers, but are definitely aimed at adults.
One could argue that the show’s pairing with Arrow indicates a teen focus by the CW. However, Arrow only gets a lower A18-49 demo than The Vampire Diaries because it skews a *lot* older. Its audience is currently still over three million. So, I wouldn’t call it a teen audience, either. And while SPN is the only CW show in recent memory to do reasonably well at Thursday nights at 9, it didn’t get much benefit from TVD, indicating that TVD’s young audience wasn’t terribly into SPN, or vice versa.
The CW is only interested in the younger audience… the 12-16 yr olds. I had always hoped it would move into the older demos but if it had, it’s still aiming at the YA. TVD, Smallville, Emily Owens, TCD all are for teens and pre-teens. I agree SPN is viewed by a more mature audience but it’s not intended for that. I would really hate to think those writers are writing for a mature audience. It’s bad enough they insult our intelligence as it is, but it makes it easier if they are writing for YA.
No, they’re not. They’ve always aimed for college age or older. Teens don’t count as much as the A18-49 in the demos. And SPN is absolutely intended for an older audience. That’s why it can’t air before 9pm.
If you think SPN writing is the worst genre writing on TV, you haven’t watched The Walking Dead. The worst writing of SPN is Shakespeare in comparison.
Not to mention that writing for a younger audience does *not* mean poor writing. If writing for an adult audience were the criterion for great writing, porn would Oscar bait.
I don’t get the Shakespearian comparison and I didn’t mean that writing for YA is poor. I just meant that if the writers were writing for a mature audience they wouldn’t have one lead as a perpetual 15 yr old. Adults like to view adult issues not those of a teenager. That is totally aimed at teenagers.
And I did watch TWD but it got boring for me.
There isn’t anything on the show that is aimed at teens. There are no teen characters (besides Kevin, but he is an exception that proves the rule by being forced to grow up fast and the other characters having zero tolerance for his adolescent angst. Also, not only is he not a central character, but he just found out that his grand destiny isn’t so grand and that he’s quite replaceable). There are no teen issues. Both of the main characters are over thirty. The issues they deal with are adult ones and are loaded with red flags for parents of teens (like the fact that both have major, largely unexplored substance abuse problems or trying to settle down in blended families with older female characters possessing major baggage like kids and dead exes). That they can be immature about these issues doesn’t make them teenagers or the show a YA show. Adults are frequently immature when going through major changes.
Oh forgot, only good thing about the ep was dean in chainmail
!!! HOT, HOT HOT!!!
Okay, I’ve gotta ask someone to explain this to me, because I don’t get it, and I have no intention of actually watching the episode to find out.
Why is there all this buzz going around that Dean and Charlie are so much alike? The only similarities I can see are that they’re adorkable (and I use that loosely on Charlie – I like Felicia Day, but I don’t think her schtick belongs on SPN) and that they both like women. That’s it. Where are all these Dean/Charlie parallels coming from?
I’m not sure. I think some of the official bloggers brought it up and it did seem clear to me that, once again, the show was trying to make a guest character look fabulous by turning her into a Dean clone (They did exactly the same thing with Adam and Garth and Jo, among others, and they weren’t shy about it). Otherwise, why have all the men and women fawning over her?
But I agree that Charlie actually bears little resemblance to Dean and that Felicia Day’s shtick doesn’t fit well, either into being a Dean clone or into being on the show. She belongs on something like Eureka, which is a lot more intentionally farcical. That’s not a slap at Eureka. I liked it for what it was. But it was a very different show from Supernatural.
I found the interaction between Dean and Charlie very pleasant this time around. But I didn’t think they were alike just good chemistry between them. I think that was what most people were reacting to. Really thought Dean being so concerned about Charlie was sweet.
Once again, Paula, a review choked full of information I knew nothing about and, once again, thanks. I love your reviews.
Besides swooning of Dean in his costume and his boyish geekiness, I did like the witty dialogue Thompson gave us. And that ending scene was downright funny. Although, my preference would have been Aragorn’s Black Gate speech, because that one was about courage and solidarity and Braveheart’s was about freedom from English tyranny. But, whatever, show. And that leads to my next comment.
What in the f’ing stars is with having the brothers mope over losing their ‘normal’ (term used loosely) life with Amelia and never being able to have one for years on end. Is that the ultimate quest — getting a normal life?
This episode was all about how real life sucks so much that Charlie escaped into a fantasy one, how the LARPer’s used the role playing as escape to fulfill themselves, and how Jerry got so obsessed with the fake Queen, that he murdered people. And against that, we have Sam moping for his married lover and Dean, still three years later, wistfully saying that people in his line of work can’t have the ‘life.’ WTH!! I want my heroes questing after something challenging, almost impossible to achieve, and winning at it. I don’t want to watch two heroes depicted as heroes because they can’t get what every other person on the planet has.
Then there’s the Winchester investment into this whole mytharc thing. The show has set up Garth as Bobby’s replacement and all other hunters, including the Winchesters now, are taking their direction from him. Kevin is tucked securely under Garth’s wings. There’s no actively seeking Cas, no concern, and no even a mention of him. He’s back in Heaven where, you know, angels belong and the brothers aren’t worried about it. So I question, if Sam wants to be with Amelia, why in the hell doesn’t he just go back to her. There are other hunters, after all, who can take care of the problem and it’s not like anything bothered him while he was gone for a year.
If Dean is still pining for the white picket fence and kids, then go get it. I’m sure there’s at least one woman out there that will take note of him. Hell, I bet he could seek out Lisa and win her over again. It didn’t take much to do it the first time around — couple of days, max, as I recall. And I don’t really think Crowley would mess with Dean at all if he were to quit. Dean is just a thorn in his side that I think he’d be quite happy to get rid of.
What is the personal Winchester investment in this story? We’re getting close to the half-way point in the season, and I’d kind of like to know that.
From the reviews I have read and most of the fan comments I’ve seen in response to those reviews, Felicia Day is a welcome and most-loved guest on SPN. I dislike her character, toned down and whitewashed as she was in this episode, for the reasons you mention. I don’t hate her as much as Garth, but they are close. I’m very disappointed that characters like these are what Carver is using. It’s not the direction I would have preferred the show go — comedy/horror instead of horror/drama.
I’m not a bit impressed with Robbie Thompson these days. This episode was a perfect chance to explore real magic and expand the fairy lore the show has used. In the least, it was a real chance for Charlie to be used to get Dean to thinking about his role as hero, how far the responsibility of a skilled hunter extends (a follow up to Cas’ remark), and a chance for Sam to make slight references any one of a number of the crap he’s pulled this season, and all of that was wasted to write a script for Felicia Day. Nothing was resolved and the mytharc was not advanced in any way. As you say, Paula, a completely pointless episode.
And yes, I am quite certain none of the writers ever watch an episode of SPN. On the surface, they know the general characteristics of the two leads and that’s about it.
Well, the Aragorn speech isn’t as famous as the Braveheart speech and “For Frodo” is too short.
I honestly don’t get the whole “Normal is wonderful! Hunting sucks!” trope they got stuck into sometime around season three. Why can’t Dean just enjoy hunting and hate normal? That is such an artificial conflict and the showrunners seem stuck in it, apparently because it was some hardwired track that Kripke laid down.
I don’t think the writers have written themselves into any corners yet. If anything, they’re making the fans nervous with all the different possibilities (which is a Carver/Fricke thing. They love to cover their tracks with “It could be this, or, you know, it could be that” for a good two thirds of the season). It could go well; it could badly. It’s too early to tell.
Actually Paula, I don’t think that’s all he hardwired into the series. As I said in one of your other columns, Kripke obviously made sure all future showrunners and producers would make keep Kripke’s alter ego, the special snowflake as an dick. Sambutt can do know wrong even when he acts like Robo!Sam with a soul….like all first half of the season. After that, I doubt anyone would ever worry about Dean being anything but a doormat again. We just have to worry how BIG a doormat will they make him. Even when he’s gone Kripke keeps giving fans who oppose him the big middle finger.
But as long as Ackles is happy, it’s okay. Just a shame to think we will never get to see him in a series where he gets the accreditation he deserves.
….and 2:20am Paula? Really? Don’t you ever sleep?
I wanted to ask, Paula, do you think the writers have cornered themselves on this Sam and Dean issues and have just fell back into the Dean as Sam’s handmaiden trope?
I can’t for the life of me figure out why Sam was written the way he has been this season and then the writers would turn around and have Dean say he was wrong. It’s totally illogical, besides the fact that all of the talk about ‘secrets’ has completely stopped. That may be because Sam’s love is a married woman and an adulterer and, obviously, Dean doesn’t know either of those two facts and hasn’t met the bitchy vet either. Sam, on the other hand, had met Benny before he decided to go kill him.
Thanks paula. For what it’s worth, I think a lot of the dialogue was there for the pop culture reference. The I love you… I know was star wars, and the I’m just a girl exposition to the “monster” was apparently from notting hill. I guess they thought silliness was needed after torn and frayed. It would have been better to stick to the genre more, and considered whether they were sending unintentional messages with their subtext. It’s a shame if all the writer wanted was a fairies for Charlie ( I thought that slang term only applied to men anyhow, and was derogatory in nature). I did like it in Dean’s episode, because they completely ran with it including having him incarcerated for a hate crime.
What I really liked here was what JA brought. He was delightful. I hope this emphasis on silly Dean is to contrast with BAMFawesome Dean when he cones out to exact vengeance.
By the Sam token, there is just nothing likable about Sam. He seems useless and a user.
I think Dean does look like he’s been through a ringer. He has little patience with Sam’s mooning and attitude, and he’s trying to make the best of the situation. He seemed much more comfortable with Charlie, which says a lot.
I guess I should rewatch the scene with Dean and Charlie. Because what she says is patently wrong, and her source of information is dean- he gave her the short version I suspect: what’s Sam acting like his cat died. Oh I sent him a text pretending to be his girlfriend, and they broke up. He thinks it was his chance at normal. Dean didn’t seem to take blame other than admitting it wasn’t the nicest thing to do/not his finest hour. The main Takeaway for me is that Dean is not sharing how he feels with Charlie directly but she and we can see he’s lost someone too. Sam is too hung up on himself to notice anything.
I did see DEAN taking every excuse to get away from his downer brother. And Sam letting his brother play for an afternoon is not squaring things with Dean at all.
There are sure a lot of blind fans where Sam is concerned; and apparently Dean is a sub-human acolyte there to serve the master’s wishes. That hubbub about the text is amazing. I just don’t see the writers playing the same song with Sam. He’s just been too awful, if not to Dean, Benny and kevin, then to Amelia and Don. Adultery for the heck of it, and not even having the decency to get your head our of your ass long enough to be sweet with the women you used and claimed to love… yuk. She came off desperate and confused. He was gross. That’s not how you right the hero. You don’t have him abandon his comrades, act annoyed that they didn’t die because now he’s stuck helping again. You don’t portray the relationship as desperate, the lovers as clingy and without chemistry, you don’t have the dad show up to truthsay, you don’t have the husband return as a veteran, you don’t have the hero abandon the love of his life because it’s easier, and then come back and screw her and dump her again and then blame his brother for his sadness, you don’t have him whine that he doesn’t want yo help his brother with his stupid unimportant work and then have him flip out that his brother works with someone else and try to act like you are mire committed, knowledgeable and skilled than your older brother who has been doing it his whole life. This is a character that needs to become a Better person and no heroic quest can do this. I maintain that Sam’s story is to love and support Dean this time around. Killing a hellhound and closing the hellgates will not make him a better person. They are spackling the bad pretty thick onto Sam.
I love your reviews, Paula. I really feel like you pull no punches with them and I like that you don’t go outta your way to blow smoke up the writers/shows butt.
You know I mentioned elsewhere that while I did like the episode for the most part, the conversation with Dean and Charlie totally overshadowed anything that I enjoyed because it just felt so unnecessary especially since we already knew Dean didn’t force Sam to leave, he gave him the choice to leave or stay. And I mentioned the other reasons of Sam letting Dean be knocked out/tied up. I was offhandedly told I needed to chill/look deeper into the conversation because so in so said this and that…but I mean c’mon. What was the purpose of that conversation? What was the purpose of hearing all about how Dean was once again a giant meanie to poor little broken Sam? And if the show wanted us to “look deeper” into the conversation why didn’t they have Dean make one mention of what he gave up? I don’t think the whole “Dean doesn’t talk about his feelings” thing could be used because this year Dean has seemed more comfortable opening up. One of my favorite scenes to this day is Dean tossing down that pen to talk to Castiel about what is bothering him. Personally I don’t think it’s hypersensitive to not want Dean to be blamed for things that are not his fault. Sam could have went to Amelia; I’m of the mind that Dean wanted him to go anyway.
While Samelia is boring I could put up with Sam moping about her if he took responsibility in his part for leaving her. But it’s being twisted that well Dean made him not go to her so naturally everything is Dean’s fault again. And the kicker is that people who watched Torn And Frayed are actually buying into this mess! I’ve enjoyed S8 but if this keeps up I’m turning in my S8 lovers membership card.
As for Charlie I still find her annoying and I doubt that will ever change. I don’t particularly like Felicia Day either so…there’s that too. A lot of the stuff that happens around her I don’t believe either; for one even as a geek/nerd she wouldn’t have been this universal type for all those chicks or guys. Xena Warrior Princess she is not. And her “later bitches” and stuff just irked the hell out of me. It reminds me of those old teen movies from the 90s about the ‘geeks’ trying to be cool.
The out of sight, out of mind Castiel thing was annoying as well. I HATE it when they do stuff like that. I’ve been catching up on Lost Girl and even though Aife wasn’t around they still mentioned her so that you knew she was on the characters’ minds. It’s like really? You couldn’t spare one sentence for Castiel having some serious things happen to him in the previous episode? Not even one “Hope Cas is okay?”
All in all I liked watching Dean in costume and I thought the fairy was pretty but I’m disappointed in more than I liked.
The thing that by far most annoyed about this episode was the no mention as if “he didn’t exist, like he didn’t bleed out of his eyes, didn’t feel off, didn’t talk about considering suicide when having to retutn back to heaven” of Castiel. I could overlook that only because of Dean’s “let go…”-comment, which imo wasn’t about Benny at all. Everything “let go” has been connected to Cas. Everything “you’re either in or you’re out” is connected to Benny and purgatory.
That’s about all I will say about the episode since I lengthly wrote about it in the spoilers column already.
One thing though, I am most probably seeing things, but didn’t anybody else get a strange vibe from the papercup Dean was drinking of in the beginning? For some reason I found that to be strangely put in “position” or focus. You know, I got some kind of S4!Sam!Flask vibe from it… But I don’t even know. o.o
Oh and I just remembered something else I really loved about the episode. The scenes in the forest, because there purgatory!Dean came back out to play in a major way. I’d even go as afar as saying that in that moment – triggered by the setting – Dean “was” back in purgatory. Also: the last scene of Dean turning around in the forest when he had sent away those shadow orks was exactly the same as one scene from purgatorxy and I think deliberately so. I really hope we’ll get to see more purgatpry!Dean topside now that Dean’s cut loose of every single person that was anchoring him.
Having said that, I think in the promo for the next episode there are flashes of purgatory!Dean to be seen as well. Fingers crossed. I am beyond excited for that episode.
It would be great if the Winchesters learn how to tap into the powers of their own soul (could be good to know when completing those tasks. I actually would love it if it would be revealed that somehow the Winchester bloodline descends from a fallen angel and therefore the Winchesters were perfect vessels for archangels. Which would explain why maybe Sam needed to be fe demon blood in order for him to be corrupted and being able to house Lucifer. I know major ret-con, but if it was doen well I think I wouldn#t even mind. Anything that emphasizes Dean’s importance in the mytharc.
Good catches on the visual subtext for DEAN and purgatory. Not sure what the cup could mean… he’s drinking again? I mean it doesn’t make sense that he’s drinking blood.
I agree totally about the dialogue cues too. These lines keep getting repeated for a reason.
I am looking forward to this weeks episode. The new angel information, and tying in all the soul nonsense from 6, is welcome actually. I would love for dropped things that made little sense as a result to be fleshed out. 5-7 were messy because of all the things thrown at the wall and forgotten.
It is clear that Carver watched past seasons, and he said as much. So my question is why have Dean friends with a vampire, yet no mention that he was one. Why have a fairy episode, and Garth mention fairies as well, with no mention of Dean’s connection. It seems as if they are setting him up for something and trying to hide it from us for now. Surely Carver knows fans catch things- at least deangirls do.
One more thing in defense of Dean having the mytharc. Remember how in earlier seasons, Dean’s mistrust of Sam’s actions was a big part of his character. Dean hated the visions and tried to shut them down. He didn’t like exploring the psi kid cases. He was very suspicious of Ruby. He flipped over the powers and demon blood drinking. Now Dean obviously loves his brother and is very protective of Sam. Therefore his behavior made sense and came from a good place. And then apparently it all came down to Dean learning to trust Sam and trust in him.
Can we be seeing Sam’s version of this behavior? We have the absolutely common and mundane samelia to emphasize Sam’s normalcy and humanity. He doesn’t even want to do the humanity tests in the premier, because he knows he’s human and assumes Dean is too. Maybe he’s actually realized how off Dean is and it scares him. He sees the feral behavior, the ruthless decisions, the uber hunter/warrior traits- and he is freaked. So he focuses all of his fears onto Benny. If Dean quits Benny he will return to normal. Only, Benny and cas are anchors now- not Sam. And Dean is self aware enough to know that without Benny he’ll have trouble keeping his nose clean too. So he tries to let off steam, you know have some fun.
It will be very interesting to see what happens if he is able to access inner Dean/ soul and whatever else hides there.
I was quite disappointed by this episode, in terms of placement, writing, etc., as I said in the Spoilers thread. The writer came across as pretty shallow and very enamored of the character he had created.
However, I’ve read some very good meta that what Carver is doing in Season 8, is a reimagining of Season 6. Actually, the parallels keep on coming. Dean’s domestic Lisa story was a parallel to the Samelia stuff. Sam’s lack of soul story was paralleled by Dean’s Purgatory story, coming back with PTSD, and Benny hovering, till he gave up Benny (as Sam was souled up again in 6.11). Castiel was on his way to becoming Godstiel, influenced subtly by Crowley. This time Castiel is doing questionable stuff but he is completely under the influence of Naomi. She could indeed be a Crowley parallel. There was Grandfather Campbell the hunter, now we have Grandfather Winchester. Who knows what secrets he will reveal
We also have the ongoing theme of supernatural romance and friendships, and the different paths they take. In the Gamble-written 6.21, Dean rejected Castiel and was completely focussed on Sam and his well-being throughout Season 6; I wonder what Dean’s reaction will be to finding out that Cas has been compromised. Dean, notably, is not much about Sam at all this season. He has been far more about Castiel and Benny, quite openly.
Castiel in 6.22, embraced his Godstielness completely. If at the end of this season, Dean stands with him and supports him, will he be able to overcome Naomi’s evil influence?
In the second part of Season 6, Dean was just a support player to Sam’s souled-up suffering and Cas’ betrayal after his domestic story ended. I wonder if it’s Sam’s turn to be a support player for the rest of the season, though his domestic story was treated with far more screen time than Dean’s Lisa story.
This episode seemed to be at least somewhat more fun than the beginning of the second half of Season 6. It will be fun to see if the retelling of Season 6 continues.
According to JA, s8 is a parallel to S1. He said Purgatory for Dean was how they were resetting him back to the Dean of S1. And that he liked.He also liked s1 and was very happy with what Carver was doing. Course that was in Oct, so who knows if he liked the text issue. But he hated s6 so, nope that meta might be interesting, but it’s not what he said they were doing.
That’s why I really am dreading this next episode. So far everything they had in Si they have had in S8, including the special snowflakes pass and Dean being the big meanie again. The only thing missing is Sam’s special power and I really hope Henry doesn’t tell the brothers that Sam is the one who can tap his soul cause of his special blood. Also the second half is supposed to be Sam’s half, and so far I’d say that’s what we have. Maybe it will flip back to Dean and Benny, but who knows. I hold out hope that we see Benny again…and NOT Amelia. Miss Adulteress I can do without. And Sam should be ashamed of himself for what he did!!!
Although certain things definitely annoyed me (Charlie Sue, the lack of continuity with “Clap”, the jarring shift in tone from last week’s episode), none of them were enough to completely ruin the episode…..until that damn conversation about the text. Granted, it was only a few lines and the actors were pretty low key about the whole thing. But there was no storytelling reason to haul out that dead issue 2 episodes later, especially when the show couldn’t be bothered to mention Cas, who’d been bleeding from his freaking eye the episode prior (and who was much more of a reason for Sam stickign around than the text.) Nothing about that conversation made any sense, either from a factual canon standpoint or from a Dean characterization standpoint. S7 Dean might have felt responsible for Sam’s life even when he wasn’t at fault but post Purgatory Dean made it clear Sam’s decision to stay/go was his own. Which leaves the possibility that Charlie was acting as the writer’s mouthpiece and this is the show’s actual stance.
In looking at the season to date, I still believe Carver likes Dean and sees him as a badass, heroic leader. But my faith in Carver’s take on the brothers’ relationship has taken a real nose dive after “LARP.” I just can’t explain the disparity between Sam’s horrible depiction this season vs Dean being the only brother called out for his actions, other than to assume the show really doesn’t see Sam as having done anything wrong. I’ve come to the disconcerting realization that it’s likely Carver does believe Sam was 100% justified in not looking for Dean, did the mature thing in walking away to be happy, and now had to make this huge personal sacrifice to help Cas/save the world. I wouldn’t be surprised if Carver feels Sam was right to doubt Benny the vampire and was acting like a good hunter when he sided with Martin. The fact that Benny was innocent was tragic but it was still understandable Sam acted as he did, given what he knew at the time. And if Sam was jealous and angry? Well, Dean should have handled the situation better on his end.
It sounds a tad paranoid, I know. But the show has always laid the greatest responsibility for the brothers’ relationship at Dean’s doorstep while Sam’s “growth” have always been more about Sam himself. The set up for this season doesn’t seem any different. So far, Dean has let go of his anger over Sam not looking for him, apologized for hurting Sam with his text, stepped back to allow Sam to leave and be happy with Amelia, made it his job to cheer Sam up and assumed the blame for “ruining” Sam’s chance at normal. Sam, otoh, hasn’t apologized for diddley, hasn’t acknowledged the impact his leaving would have on Dean or their hunting partnership, hasn’t taken ownership over his actions in “Fang”, hasn’t backed down about Benny in the least. Sam hasn’t made any concessions or changed his mindset/behavior in dealing with Dean at all this season and I dont’ think he will. It just feels like Carver’s drunk the same Kripke/Gamble kool aid – as long as Sam buys Dean a cheeseburger or allows Dean an afternoon of fun, then Sam’s done his fair share and there’s nothing more he needs to bring to the relationship. Sam’s just an awesome brother the way he is.
And as for the brothers’ upcoming emotional talk, I’m guessing the focus will be Benny as he’s still an unresolved issue between them. But based on how Sam hasn’t been held accountable for anything else this season, I sincerely doubt the show will start now. I think it’s more likely Sam will play the victim, Dean will apologize for keeping Benny a secret and reassure Sam that he’s Dean’s bestest special snowflake brother, Sam will then nobly forgive Dean and give him permission to have a friend, the heavens will open and the angels will sing at the brothers’ relationship now being all “mature.” The show then moves onto the tablets and these issues are never re-visited again.
Sorry for the cynical rant, Paula. This is just one of the few “safe” sites where I feel comfortable being so honest. I’m just so disappointed at how Carver hasn’t been any better than his predecessors at making the brothers’ relationship more balanced and less dysfunctional. I don’t see what’s happening this season to be any different from how Kripke set Sam up to be a class A jerk and then flipping it around to be Dean’s fault. I guess after 7 years, it was unrealistic of me to expect anything different. Could it miraculously happen in the coming episodes? Sure. But I don’t see any foundation being set up for it.
Instead of hoping the writers will change their perspective, I think I need to change mine- flush the brothers’ relationship down the proverbial toilet, accept that Sam is dead to me, and only focus on Dean and the other storylines. Easier said than done but for the sake of my sanity, I’m going to try.
Hmmmm…what ‘brothers upcoming emotional talk’? I have had enough of Carver’s idea of ‘brothers emotional talks’. He’s made Dean bad enough as it is and to take away another moral code? NO. Is this a speculation you heard somewhere or was it posted in a reputable article, ie. not Zap2it.
@Cassieo, the CW publicist tweeted a few weeks ago that she’d read the script for “Trial and Error” (which she mistakenly identified as 8.13 so folks thought it’d be in Edlund’s episode.) She said it had “one of the most emotional and raw (aka “honest”) conversations between the brothers ever. Considering the source, it’s kind of hard to know whether her enthusiasm is a good sign or if Dean fans should prepare to have copious amounts of liquor on hand.
I always try to have booze on hand when watching the show.
Fortunately, I’ve never felt the need to get nearly as shnozzled for watching SPN as I did in my attempts to watch “Kingdom of Heaven” and “Alexander.”
Missed alexander but Troy drove me batty by having Achilles survive to kill off Agamemnon at Troy, completely destroying Aeschylus ‘ irestaii….
Sorry for thumb. Hands + autocorrect…
Aeschylus ‘ Oresteia
Are you talking about @Chico6 Suzanne Gomez? If you are she is the reason Zap2it’s author gets all the special SPN interviews and previews. She and Suzanne are good friends and both are ESG. I have heard not so nice things about her too. So yes, she could have seen the scene, but with her you have to take what she says with a large dose of salt. And how I know is confidential.
And Paula, LOL. But I always have copious amount on hand too.
We’re getting into the realm of gossip, folks. Dial back, please.
New thought: do you think the set-up in Larp with 4 warring factions fighting for the forever crown hints at the players involved in the current mytharc- followers of the moon, elves, warriors of yesteryear, shadow orcs… vampires/werewolves?, angels, Dean and Sam, demons.
And Dean got to wear the crown and lead the forces! At least he git that
I think there are definitely callbacks to season 1, season 6 and aspects of the seasons in between. I think it’s deliberate, and that the brothers are mirrored; ie. Their roles are switched. However their core personality and character has not been switched. Sam’s selfishness hubris and pride lead him down dark paths that opened doors to the triumph of evil. It then makes sense that Dean’s humility, sense of responsibility and morality will have him shutting these doors. Remember dean is the story’s alpha and omega. Sam has the human story; so sayeth carver/Singer, so say we all. The premier clearly broadcast that 1) Dean has the supernatural story, 2) Dean is the warrior/ultimate hunter, 3) the boys roles have switched , and 4) Dean has changed and Sam is exactly the same. It looks like all of these still hold true.
Every episode has featured personal relationships and conflict. So clearly Carver thinks this theme is important. We have seen Dean dealing with things- kevin, castiel, Benny with maturity, intelligence and a perspective that comes with experience ; and trying to deal with Sam in the same way with unfortunate results. We see Sam running away, behaving selfishly, emotionally and without thought. Repeatedly we are told/shown that running away is unheroic and doesn’t work: kevin, Charlie, Benny, castiel have or are dealing with reality. So what does that tell us about Sam? It tells us that he is wrong and that he has some growing up to do. Sam keeps mocking Garth, but Garth has taken Bobby’s mantle of researcher and home base, the very one that Sam should have embraced. I honestly do not see the show telling us that Sam is good and right.
Regarding their relationship, Sam is using his standard manipulation techniques with Dean. However Dean is not responding the same way. He’s not sorry he sent the text. I don’t think he chose Sam really. I think he chose to save cas and save the world, and is stowing the crap and pretending it is all status quo …
So nothing is resolved for Dean.
Agreed that revisiting the text is an odd choice in Larp. So I think Dean’s demeanor is what is important in that scene. To me he’s not sorry because he did what he had to do. He was only sorry that Sam took the text the way he did, revisiting mary and Jessica’s deaths. And he was very sorry to cut off ties with Benny despite the fact it had to be done.
Add to this that Dean is Michael’s vessel, Dean is the hunter, Dean… we all know the list of special Dean qualifications by heart…
Carver may be trying to make us think otherwise as paula has said he is prone to doing ; but it will be Dean’s time to kickass and shine.
Just a thought here, and I am sure there are plenty of arguements against my thought, but I was kind of thinking that Dean’s journey this season actually loosely mirrors a shallow version of the hero’s journey and if that is so, then he is the hero of this mytharc. If you read the Wikipedia short version for writers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Writer%27s_Journey:_Mythic_Structure_for_Writers
which is as far as I can imagine the writer’s bothering, it fits. Sam’s journey so far does not. Anyway, just a thought to make me feel optimistic, what with all the unforgivable Sam forgiveness these past few episodes.
Yes! Is it shallow if one considers previous seasons? But will have a look. I for think all signs point to him, but then I have the thickest Dean goggles around.
I think it makes sense to start with season 6 regarding Dean’s journey. Fyi, flutiebear has interesting Meta on 6-7 being Dean’s heroine’s journey which is more internal than active.
They totally f…. up Sam’s journey but hey, that was before the book came out!
They have to be coke-bottle thick by now. But I like your optimism and I enjoy your spec posts. But while you can find parallels in s6-7, Carver won’t touch those with a ten foot pole. Those contributed to SG’s demise and s6 was the worse season ever next to 5.
S7 was a start on amends, but even that was not the real characters. And I do believe Carver himself said he was going back to the beginning, back to what made the show popular, which Dean fans thought meant Dean.since he *is* what made the show popular and keeps it popular.
Guess Carver thinks Sam being a dickhead is what made the show popular…so he made him the biggest dick in all of literature….and than said Sam wasn’t at fault. Instead, Dean was at fault for not dying in Purgatory, making friends with the person who saved his life and expecting his brother to act like a grownup and make amends for his despicable behavior. Go figure!
Dean on a hero’s journey this season is an encouraging thought. There are hints it could be so, but we have to wait till the end of the season to be certain. Certainly Sam is not on a her’s journey, with his Amelia story, and his grudging acceptance of the hunting life. Dean came out of Purgatory, with a monster-friend, he tried to save an angel from Purgatory, and he now has clarity about himself and his role in life. It almost seems as if his hero’s “journey” is complete, he is at his destination already, and all he needs to do, is complete some hero’s task. What more does he need to learn about himself?
There is a chance that Henry Winchester reveals a destiny for Dean that was predetermined for Dean, and which he has to overcome/face. After all, even this season the angels seem quite interested in him, possibly helping him escape Purgatory (though Benny), and asking Naomi to keep an eye on him. They sure haven’t been interested in Sam the same way.
@castiels’cat:
I read about that theory on tumblr as well and I found it interesting.
I really like this idea with Dean being the leader of an army against evil. It would tie in nicely with Dean coming back from purgatory with this very strong sense of who he is and what he thinks is his purpose. Plus: Who would really be better than Dean to lead an army of various “beings”?
Dean, who has been to hell, who has adavanced knowledge about what makes demons “tick” because he came close to becoming one himself if it hadn’t been for one special angel that raised him from perdition.
Dean, who has been to and has been recruited by heaven, because he was/is the righteous man and Michael’s true vessel.
Dean, who has been to purgatory and was a vampire for a brief period of time and had and possibly still has phoenix ash in his system.
Dean, who has been to fae world and returned being able to see fairies even when they are hidden for all others.
Really, who would be better to lead an army than Dean? Who can say that he/she has been to all those realms and back? Who else could possibly look back on all these connections?
Wouldn’t it be marvelous if we are moving towards a plot and mytharc that actually centers on Dean and draws on some/all of the character’s lost plot elements. If he were playing a video game there would be a huge payoff for all of these.
I have not rewatched episode despite wanting to look at the subtext I missed because I was enjoying Dean so much. I guess that text conversation upsets me too much even though I think it must have been meant differently.
Flutiebear saw something interesting in the gamble years and her Meta on Dean and destial is fascinating. I am not so wild about her take on s 8. She really is looking for problems with Benny …
Ginger, do not click on this link:
http://tvline.com/2013/01/29/supernatural-season-8-spoilers-felicia-day-charlie-returns/
Why! Seriously, why?
OH GOD!!! I mean, I didn’t mind her in the last episode, but really another time??? Ugh, I feel like throwing up now!
Just from the LARPing dialogue and the gushing from Carver and all the bloggers about Day, we already knew that Charlie will be a permanent recurring, so whatever spoiler there is about her returning, isn’t really a spoiler at all.
And to think, I gave up all the potential of Ellen and Rufus as characters to get a little sister Winchester and a village idiot Bobby! And I stupidly thought that it was only SG that read fanfic stories? I wonder when Dean’s love interest will be revealed and when Garth will show up again?
I think it’s safe to say that Carver’s stamp on the show is comedy/horror as opposed to horror/drama. No matter. I know where my line in the sand is drawn with this show, and Carver is walking on very close to it right now. As Paula says, we’re at a crossroads.
I’m not entirely sure that’s Carver’s stamp. Being Human is pretty friggin’ dark. And he cowrote this season’s premiere – which was pretty friggin’ dark!
I don’t know what’s going on in that there writer’s room, but I sometimes wonder if Carver is as frustrated as the rest of us right now.
Carver has to approve the scripts that turned Garth into Bobby, mention Garth ad nauseum, scripts that are written specifically for Felicia Day, scripts that set it up for her to be recurring, and approve a second script for her, which will no doubt be specifically written for her again. He had to approve making Garth Bobby 2.0 and having other hunters and the Winchesters take direction from him. He has to know that in one episode (Hunteri Heroici) the writers have Sam come to the realization he’s living in a fantasy life with Amelia and then in Torn and Frayed have Sam moping about the love of his life he gave up, but there’s simply too much to do. He has to approve scripts that make support characters the hero of the story.
In the LARP episode, Charlie was the hero. She is the one that overcame her fear to “help out,” saved the fairy damsel in distress, and made the decision not to run away and to live in the real world, while Sam continued moping about having lost his fantasy normal and Dean worked the case and played. I didn’t mind Dean in the LARP episode, because while he played, he stayed focused on the job, but he was babying Sam throughout the whole thing, which puts him right back into Sam’s handmaiden role.
I think Dean is committed to the hunt after arriving back from Purgatory, so he doesn’t have to make that commitment, but he’s no more happy about it than he was in S5, S6 or S7. He can’t have a family and normal, he can’t have friends or attachments, so all he can do is hunt, and he would prefer to do that with Sam for some reason that escapes me at the moment. And, mind you, I love the Dean we’re seeing, the Dean Carver has given us, but he can ditch Dean’s comments about how sad and lonely he is about it.
I don’t think any of Sam’s asshat actions will be addressed now. I think they’ll slowly dribble out a reason or two for why the brothers are working together and not sniping at each other. In other words, the commitment to hunting from both leads, IMO, will be kind of half-a**ed.
I hope when these three tasks come up, that at least the Winchesters will be the muscle for whoever does the task. Even Dean being Sam’s muscle will be better than laying on the ground, but it won’t be enough to bring me back next season.
I can just not watch any more Garth and Charlie episodes, but I won’t deal with another love story for Dean…not after the Lisa mess and the current one that is even worse.
I’m still willing to give Carver some time, since he hasn’t bothered to lay out the mytharc yet. I know it has something to do with angels and demons and tablets. What isn’t clear to me is the Winchesters’ role in the whole thing.
Approve? Yeah. But when you’re under tight deadlines and somebody on your staff is on a contract that you can’t break, your influence is limited. And you have time to rewrite only so much, even if what you get from one of your staff is utter crap.
That’s not even getting into how hard it can be to tell how good or bad the finished product will be and how well it will go down with the audience when you’re writing nearly half a season before the season even starts.
I know we like to Fantasy Football what we’d like to see in a season arc, but the realities of TV writing do heavily influence what we actually get and that has to be acknowledged amidst all the calls for the new showrunner to commit hari-kari less than halfway into his first season.
I agree, Ginger. Carver is either an ineffectual showrunner, who can’t handle the job, or this IS what he wants. And what he wants is a joke. Honestly, I didn’t think that anyone would get even close to the ineptitude of showrunning that was Gamble, but wow, Carver is getting mighty close. The whitewashing of Sam is at an all time high, Dean is still stuck in “support everyone” mode with no storyline of his own, and the weak story is being driven by guest characters.
It must have been his wife who is the awesome showrunner, season long arc planner. Because I’m not seeing any magic from Carver on Supernatural, and yet interestingly, it’s still there on Being Human…
I really do wish that Jensen Ackles was on a show that respected his talents and respected what his character brings to the table. Until he has moved on to a show that appreciates him, I will tough it out to support him. He’s the only person on that show who gives a damn about Dean, and I just can’t leave him hanging out there in the wind, all by himself.
Though Carver, Singer, et all are sure making that hard!
“And to think, I gave up all the potential of Ellen and Rufus as characters to get a little sister Winchester and a village idiot Bobby!”
Well, we certainly haven’t traded up. *cries* What is this, the poor man’s version of a good supporting SPN cast?
” I wonder when Dean’s love interest will be revealed and when Garth will show up again?”
Garth I can do without. However, if Dean’s love interest is Cas, I’m behind it. Sadly, I figure all I’ll get is teases and parallels only to have some random jenny-come-lately shoved into this slot.
I’m not feeling the love.
Oh sad, sigh… discussion on imbd regarding the demon gate tasks and whether Dean not doing them was a deal breaker for fans. Most folks seem disenchanted. One believes the publicist favors Sam and also there are contractual issues that Sam is the hero… the publicist is often wrong or a small detail is chatted up to give wrong impression of the plot.
If the plan was to make Sam the center of the mytharc and big hero again… they would not make him so shi..y to his brother, to kevin, to Benny, Don, Amelia… especially without a supernatural excuse. It’s one thing to reframe him as the reluctant hero. It’s another thing to show him abandoning comrades for a sordid relationship without chemistry, and committing adultery because he’s weak. It’s another thing for him to trash his brother and question his life’s calling. It’s another thing to show him repeatedly mocking a character much less heroically endowed, who nonetheless is behaving heroically in exactly the way Sam should have this past year. I could go on but they have framed Sam as unheroic, not reluctant. So Sam needs to be rehabilitated as a human, a long journey I think regarding his behavior towards Dean, and a grand gesture of closing gates won’t do anything to rehabilitate the character.
In s1-5, the bad behavior was explained by his demonic corruption as an infant, and his hubris and flaws did result in Lucifer rising. Although Dean’s stories being tossed suc.ed, there was a balance in Sam closing that door. The only balance for Sam here, is for him to accept his brother and have his back.
Parallels aside (which are equaling compelling for Dean having the mytharc), it’s bad storytelling. I think Ann emmess was right way back when, and Carver has a planplanplan for DEAN Dean Dean. There is just too many repetition of themes, lines of dialogue, personal character flaws for sam, and comparative characters like Benny the flawed brother that Dean can depend on, for there not to be a human redemption arc for Sam.
Seriously why would Carver take over a dead horse beaten into the ground, and why would the cw sink money into the show and Attract fresh talent if it was going to be the Sam old Sam heroic hour featuring deadbeat Dean.
DEAN with the special elixir of Phoenix blood and a weapon honed in purgatory, drawing on skills honed in hell with trusty sidekicks from heaven and earth, and human cohorts that need his leadership and experience to realize their role …
I saw that post and I’m a bit skeptical about Dean/Jensen Ackles being abused and neglected by the show’s producers. They’d have to be deaf, dumb, blind, and bone stupid not to notice the character and actor’s popularity, and I’d think all the viral stuff they do with Dean and Ackles proves that they are quite aware of it – and quite happy to exploit it.
So, I think that is a different issue from the failure to launch with Dean’s storylines. I don’t think those are really indications that the producers hate Dean, any more than the writers constantly portraying Sam as an entitled asshat mean the producers hate Sam or Jared Padalecki. I think it’s more an artifact of seven seasons and two showrunners’ worth of Sammy Sueing, which is hard to turn around on a dime.
Not really, Paula. They had Sam right where they wanted him. All they had to do was have him grow a spine and change. To go as far as they did and drop it was worse that not going there at all. I just can’t can’t see them starting all over again.
I agree. It’s crazy to think that is what is going on, and if course seven years of nonsense can’t be changed overnight unless one opts for the problematic reboot route.
I recall Carver saying it would take the season to get things where he wanted them.
Then I saw the producer’s preview where Henry is derisive about hunters. Sure many are “apes”, but there is a pointed reaction shot to DEAN as well as the implication that henry a scholar. hostility from Dean throughout the clip. Hopefully Dean will add to his arsenal via some Winchester mojo since yed chose mary Campbell to deal with. It would be funny if “apes” refers to the Campbell s and Henry is horrified that john married into them.
From what I see in the promos, Dean it treated as some half-baked Neanderthal and Sam as the wise sensitive saint who had to tolerate Dean. The producers promo really made Dean look like some thug and this is after he knows who Henry is. This is the same Dean who was so sensitive to Elizabeth and Benny. Who was sharp enough to survive in Purgatory and now can’t come to the conclusion that maybe Henry abandoned John because he time-traveled to protect him. He needs Sam to point it out to him. It’s like Carver completely forgot what he wrote about Dean for 9 episodes. Carver had everything going for him and he blew it. He did just what SG and EK would do and I don’t think that would happen unless it was mandatory.
And yes he said it would take him a season to get where he wanted it. He said a lot of things and now we know they weren’t true.
Maybe after Sam gets 9 episodes the real Dean will come back. But from what if been reading, there won’t be too many fans left.
I don’t know how you can possibly get any of that from the promos, when they basically give Dean all the action and relegate Sam to Exposition Fairy status.
I don’t get why you think that Paula. I saw dean as angry and forceful and even was pointing a gun in Henry’s face. This was his grandfather. I would have thought Dean would have been a but more compassionate. And Sam as a exposition Fairy? I like it, but I don’t see it. I’m not even sure I know what an exposition fairy is. But it don’t sound good so I’m all for it.
Dean is doing everything and this is before he knows Henry is his grandfather. Sam is giving out all the infodump, quite the opposite of being the Hero.
And y’all are bitching about an episode you haven’t even seen yet.
Dean is front and center in every trailer I see this season. Dean’s hostility and aggression is hopefully a return to PTSD Dean that we have so missed.
Oh if I were DEAN I would be very wary of grandpa’s just showing up out of the blue. Skinner was happy to see him killed to get what he wanted. And Sam’s recent behavior is no incentive to trust family. It’s in character and in season me thinks.
I am just worried that a book smart Henry will bond to Sam; although Sam never seems that smart compared to Dean.
Yeah, I don’t think Sam’s talking about Henry’s potential wonderfulness versus Dean pointing out that Henry ditched John is a great endorsement. Sambot was the one who was hanging out with Grandpa Shady Campbell and Sam is no fan of John’s, even now.
Plus, there is nothing in any of the reports of the screening, or any of the promos, that shows anything but Dean taking the lead in the brothers’ response to Henry.
I’m not reading the pre-screens because they usually upset me and then I find they were all wrong anyways.
And I’d love the return of Purgatory!Dean, but then he was tempered with sensitivity. However when he exploded it was AWESOME. I just have reservations about him exploding at his grandfather. I mean the last Henry saw John, John was seven. Now he’s dead and I’m guessing Henry is going to be very sad when he finds that out. And now we know for sure he never gets back to him and that is even sadder. Carver wouldn’t say if Henry will be a one-episode character or not, so I guess that means he doesn’t die this time. Guess he wants to see how the fans respond first, not that that seems to mean much. Maybe he does stay in the boys time… or maybe he ends up with Bobby 2…god forbid!
Actually urging the Dean breaker for most was 8.10. When we all saw Sam skate again . I suspect most already believe Sam will be the hero again. And yes I think it’s contractual but now with JP. I think it’s Kripke’s.
That’s ‘not ‘ with JP.
Ummm. That makes even less sense. His EP credit earns him $ but he is not involved anymore. His last big hurrah was setting up SG as showrunner and contributing an episode in 6. Her ouster was because it was a mess every which way. She prolonged the old mytharc rather than set up something new, which was a static decision at best. Nothing seemed thought out. Soulless Sam and hallucifer were ridiculous notions which appear to have been concocted to salvage Sam’s heroes journey which the royally flubbed by making him too dark and the frigging Antichrist! Yeesh. When jumping in the hole didn’t rehabilitate the character they decided to make him return damaged and then suffer the worst pain ever. It made no sense, especially if the character never evolves.
This season Sam behaves deplorably without any supernatural excuse. If his actions only serve to hurt Dean and not release evil onto the world the only way to rehabilitate him is for him to grow up and respect Dean, trust Dean, have Dean’s back like Benny!
Carver set it up ; he has to see it. However, it takes characters time to believable change.
All the ESG cite mystery spot by Carver as evidence of how much Sam loves Dean. Of course that is not the point of the episode. Gabriel was trying to teach Sam not to be ruled by his emotions, nit to act out of anger and seek revenge. Sam needed to hold it together after Dean’s death. If he had learned the lesson he would have resisted Ruby. The fact that he didn’t fly off the handle into full blown revenge mode after dean disappeared is positive growth. Now I want to know why he was so resentful that Dean (Don?) Returned, or why he was irrational and vengeful regarding Benny. Was it because Don replaced him and now Benny replaced him. There is something there.
The Mystery Spot episode was written when the series was not going to send Dean to hell. It was to show Sam how much he needed Dean and to spur him to work harder to find a way to break the contract. I’m not sure Sam was worried about losing Dean because of love or just because he is so dependent on him.
At any rate because of the writers strike, that episode was mute. Dean went to hell and without his cruch Sam turned to alcohol and Ruby. Once Dean was released Sam was to stuck in his new pole to go back to big bro.
The ESG are not thinking with there heads and they have there own fantasy to believe in. Lets just hope they don’t try Sam’s stuff in real life.
As for EK, it makes perfect sense for him to have made a contractual deal with WB that the series stays as he created it. It has his name on it and he did come up with the idea. I believe that comes u fee the realm of intellectual property. I only know about it cause I sued a person for using my ideas on a web page with out my permission.
And SG did exactly what EK wanted and it ended up just like his s5. That’s not going to stop him. He could care less what fans want. His special snowflake will never be tarnished.
A Bob Singer interview from Celebbuzz.
http://www.celebuzz.com/2013-01-29/supernatural-boss-felicia-day-ty-olsson-and-maybe-liane-balaban-returning-on-season-8/
From the article,
“Supernatural has built a series eight seasons strong around two main characters, and that is how Executive Producer Bob Singer likes it.
“They’re traditional loners, and we wanted to keep it that way… Part of the appeal is they’re these ‘Last Men Standing,’” Singer said of Sam and Dean Winchester (Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles) during a special Q&A in Los Angeles, Calif. on Tuesday.”
It’s clear that Singer is of the Gamble type mindset where he likes to keep the show to just the two main characters. IIRC, Carver said at Comic Con that he wanted new relationships for the brothers. It seems to me that the two EPs have different views, with Singer pushing the brothers-only show. Which must get difficult with Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles both wanting time off for families soon. I wonder how much Carver’s vision will prevail.
I am surprised that Singer was interviewed in the latest publicity round, instead of Carver.
Actually, he wasn’t interviewed. It was a press Q&A at a screening of the episode.
Okay. I am still surprised that Singer was present at the screening of the episode for bloggers and not Carver, when the publicist knew that the bloggers would have lots of questions for the showrunner and present those as “interviews”.
I wonder if Singer has now stepped in to to be the face of the show for the bloggers and reassure that bro-love fans freaking out that the show is about the two brothers only. That outside characters like Benny, Castiel, Amelia will not get in the way of their epic love. What he said in that interview sounded very much like Gamble talking about taking away everyone from Sam & Dean, and keeping them isolated. Very similar words to Gamble and her Butch Cassidy analogy.
I think it’s more likely that Carver was busy. He did do the Producer’s Preview this week.
Intellectual property belongs to who paid for it. Warner brothers bought it. They acknowledge him as Creator with the credit. We know he didn’t have a 5 year plan let alone a 10 year plan.
For instance if you create something as an employee the intellectual property belongs to the employer. And Michael Jackson could do whatever he wanted with the Beatles song catalog.
It depends on your contract, how good an agent you have, and how much clout you have in the industry. A showrunner like Kripke probably gets at least a boatload of residuals. His retaining creative control of the show after leaving is less likely (He was still a new writer when he began the show), but some showrunners can retain an iron grip on shows, as producers, even after leaving them.
You know these things for sure, i Only surmise. The man certainly doesn’t have the clout in his new show.
If he had a10 year plan maybe he would care. Why would he push for Sam when he was leaving? He would be pushing for the best deal he could get for his own benefit. He told his story.
At least we are more excited than over dick. The new mytharc courtesy of Henry and abaddon intrigues.
But Kripke wasn’t their employee when he was out trying to sell the series. WB bought Kripke’s idea and then they gave him a contract. The idea he presented is his. They have to keep it as he wrote it. They didn’t buy the names, they bought the characters and the premise for the show. That has to be maintained as is.
Many friends I know have submitted scripts to shows. Some times the scripts are rejected but the series buys the idea. That idea has to be kept as it was purchased.
It is very common for the showrunner to lose all copyright to his/her ideas once his/her show goes to series. This happened to John Kricfalusi, the creator of “Ren and Stimpy.” He had two ideas and he cared about the other one more. When Nickelodeon optioned “Ren and Stimpy,” they wanted to buy the idea outright and Kricfalusi sold it to them in order to keep control over the other (which ended up going nowhere). He was also the showrunner. But when he had a falling out with Nickelodeon, he was forced off the show and had no more control over it. And that was pretty much the end of his fame. He’s continued working, but “Ren and Stimpy” was his high-water mark.
Spec scripts belong to the show once bought and they can do pretty much any damned thing they want to it once they do. Same for anything the staff writers write for the show.
Ugh, this Charlie coming back thing really annoys me so much. I thought I would have calmed down over night, but I was wrong apparently.
I am just majorly pissed off that we are now stuck with getting more episodes with characters I feel don’t fit into the supernatural world and are as characters just damn annoying. I especially hate it, that that means we’ll get more “funny” episodes, which I could greatly do without. I prefer SPN dramatic, dark and bleak, not comedic.
Ugh, really I am so frustrated. Now we’re stuck with Charlie and Garth, why can’t they focus on the great characters they have? I mean why not do another Castiel heavy epsiode instead of Charlie? Really, Cas is far more important to me than stupid Charlie and right now it feels like she’s more important and it pisses me off to no end, because to me there simply is no good reason why she should be “in the life”.
Why the fuck focus on those cardboard-clichee characters and kill off the truly interesting characters? Why not have the good characters come back?
I want more CAS, I want Benny, I want Amelia (and I’m sure even those who didn’t like her, would prefer her over Charlie here), I want Jody Mills. What I don’t want and need is: CHARLIE AND FUCKING GARTH!
*grrrr I might be turning into Hulk over this or something*
As for the argument that they can’t continue the show with 2 leads only, because of family. Why not? Sure, they have kids and families they care about. But JP has shown that it’s not impossible to combine working and having your family around at the same time. I don’t think them having kids will change a lot the way the show is produced.
I have a bad feeling that a major reason why they bring back the cardboard is because those characters are little more than offscreen expositional and onscreen MOTW material. If they have potential to be more, to have their own stories, they are deemed too difficult because then the show would have to fit those stories into the overall story. So, they get dropped (Jodi Mills), have most of their story told offscreen (Castiel), or are summarily killed off (Rufus).
They seem to like them. I imagine that it is hard to start fresh and turn around a show where most of the rich characters were killed. Singer said that Benny would be back. Try can’t use cas too much now because they want to drag out his important arc with naomi.
The latest spoilers column is up: http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com/blog/?p=20264