- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/02/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/09/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/16/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/23/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/30/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/06/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/13/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/20/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/27/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/06/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/13/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/20/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/27/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/03/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/10/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/17/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/24/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/01/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/08/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/15/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/22/13
This week, we have more news and spoilers about upcoming books, Once Upon a Time, returning sci-fi shows, and Supernatural. You can access previous spoilers columns here.
Horrific Reads, Bloody Off the Press
By Nathaniel Katz
The week’s most exciting release is likely Revenge: Eleven Dark Tales by the acclaimed Japanese writer Yoko Ogawa. Ogawa has already earned praise from figures as varied and significant as Peter Straub, Hilary Mantel and Joe Hill, and these eleven tales promise surgery, song and twisted beauty.
On the other side of the horror genre, we can exchange our cabaret singers for zombie apocalypses with Fighting to Survive by Rhiannon Frater, the second novel in the As the World Dies sequence. Within it, the survivors of the end’s opening shots are preparing to sally out against a zombie-crowded hotel while the undead shamble about all around.
After all the bloodshed, Margot Berwin’s Scent of Darkness might serve as a nice palate cleanser, an infinitely alluring aroma to reinvigorate our senses and lead us oh-so-delightfully and hopelessly astray. Evangeline, granddaughter of a masterful scent-maker, has always known the power of fragrance. But even she was not quite prepared for her grandmother’s ultimate creation, which renders her utterly irresistible.
Finally, Necro Publications has reissued a spate of Edward Lee novels for the uninitiated to sink their teeth into. In Infernal Angel, City Infernal, and Witch Water, we encounter Hell, witches, the otherwise supernatural, and a heaping dose of the infernal.
Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina
ABC released the official synopsis for the episode, “Tiny,” featuring the return of Jorge Garcia as the Giant:
“THE GIANT UNLEASHES HIS VENGEANCE ON STORYBROOKE, AND MR. GOLD ATTEMPTS TO DEPART STORYBROOKE TO SEARCH FOR HIS SON BAE – WITH EMMA AND HENRY IN TOW – ON ABC’S ONCE UPON A TIME
“Jorge Garcia Guest Stars as the Giant.
“‘Tiny’ – Kidnapped and brought to Storybrooke by Cora, the Giant (Jorge Garcia) unleashes his vengeance on the town when a case of mistaken identity leads him to try and settle an old score with David; Mr. Gold, accompanied by Emma and Henry, attempts to depart Storybrooke – hoping to keep his memory intact when he crosses the town line – and heads to the airport in search of his son Bae; and Greg (Ethan Embry) questions Belle as to what she saw on the night of his car accident. Meanwhile, in the fairytale land that was and against his brothers’ wishes, Anton, the Giant, climbs down the beanstalk and attempts to befriend some humans – whose intentions may not be so noble – on Once Upon a Time, SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 10 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.
“Once Upon a Time stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Lana Parrilla as Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Jared S. Gilmore as Henry Mills, Meghan Ory as Red Riding Hood/Ruby, and Robert Carlyle as Rumpelstiltskin/Mr. Gold.
“Guest starring are Lee Arenberg as Leroy/Grumpy, Colin O’Donoghue as Hook, Beverley Elliott as Granny, Alan Dale as Spencer/King George, David-Paul Grove as Doc, Faustino Di Bauda as Sleepy, Jeffrey Kaiser as Dopey, Michael Coleman as Happy, Mig Macario as Bashful, Ethan Embry as Greg Mendell, Jorge Garcia as Giant/Anton, Abraham Benrubi as Arlo, C. Ernst Hearth as Abraham, Andre Tricoteux as Argyle, Ingrid Torrance as Severe Nurse, Cassidy Freeman as Jack, Todd Thomson as Business Man, and Byron Bertram as TSA Agent.
“‘Tiny’ was written by Christine Boylan & Kalinda Vazquez and directed by Guy Ferland.
The show released some photos of the episode featuring Rena Sofer as Snow White’s mother, Queen Eva. Looks like it might be her on her death bed.
TV Guide posted this spoiler about the Queen Eva episode:
“So excited about Rena Sofer as Snow White’s mother on Once Upon a Time. Is there anything you can share about her role? - Phyllis”
“NATALIE: Executive producer Adam Horowitz confirms that Queen Eva has a ‘surprising connection to someone else in our world.’ If your first guess is Cora – since it seems likely that the Evil Queen’s evil mother may have had a hand in Queen Eva’s death – you may be in for a treat. ‘That would be a feud that goes back so long,’ executive producer Edward Kitsis says. But what you may find more interesting? ‘You would think it would be easy to be Snow White’s mother, but perhaps Snow White wasn’t always Snow White,’ Kitsis says.”
Josh Dallas posted a picture on his twitter of his script page. The title is “The Miller’s Daughter” and it’s written by Jane Espenson.
Vancity posted some pictures taken of shooting, including a brief description of what they saw. According to Vancity, “Lana Parrilla, Barbara Hershey, Jennifer Morrison, Michael Raymond-James, Josh Dallas and Ginnifer Goodwin were all on set for filming a big fight scene inside Mr. Golds.” But Robert Carlyle was not there. Spoiler TV also posted a picture from Vancity, showing Barbara Hershey and Lana Parrilla looking as if they are using their powers together to break down Gold’s shop door.
Vancity also posted some pictures taken of a scene involving Josh Dallas and Ginnifer Goodwin, where it looks like Charming ends up on the street, unconscious.
Another site, YVR Shoots, posted some pictures of Jennifer Morrison filming by herself outside the pub, “The Blarney Stone.”
And finally, the final ratings are delayed this week, due to Martin Luther King Jr. Day in the U.S., so all we have right now are the overnights. Unfortunately, those weren’t that great. I’m not sure why ABC is taking the risk of putting new episodes up against big event programming on other networks, but they did and the AFC Championship game, alas, took some bite out of the show’s numbers. It received a 2.4/6 in the demos, with 7.71 million viewers.
Sci-Fi Spoilerpalooza
By Heather S. Vina
For fans of the original Being Human from the UK, the show is set to return in February with season five. SFX Magazine saw the premiere episode and has up some teasers for the episode. It sounds really good. Frankly, I was never a big fan of the show until they did their cast changeover. I really enjoy the new trinity of Hal, Tom and Alex, and I’m looking forward to more of them!
The official synopsis is also out for season 5, via SFX Magazine:
“Hal, Tom and Alex are three housemates with some serious issues on their hands, and they’re not all about the washing up rota. Hal is a 500 year-old vampire, Tom is a hardened werewolf and Alex has recently had the misfortune of becoming a ghost. Strapped to a chair in the living room, Hal is finding it tough going cold turkey – mostly because the mess Tom has made is really bothering him. But when Tom and Alex release Hal, they’re not to know it’s far too soon to be letting a blood-thirsty vampire onto the streets…. When Hal recruits Crumb as a vampire and welcomes him to the supernatural world, the meek becomes mighty and we see what happens when a bullied man finds his bite. Meanwhile, Rook – head of a shady government department in charge of keeping the supernatural world secret – is given some devastating news.”
The synopsis is out for episode three of the US version of Being Human, courtesy of Spoiler TV: “Nora and Josh meet a teenage runaway; Sally tries to make things right with Troy; Aidan and Henry search for clean blood.”
SpoilerTV has up some tidbits for episode three of Lost Girl.
And Zap2it has up the synopsis for episode five of Lost Girl. “When humans start dissolving into piles of goo, Bo uncovers a nefarious twist to a sexy Key Club; Kenzi gets clingy with Bo forcing Bo to make an extreme revelation about her bestie.
Supernatural (Wednesday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles
The episode tonight is 8.11, “LARP and the Real Girl.” In addition to the official press release and official photos, we have the CW promo, a Producer’s Preview, a sneak peek, and the Canadian promo. There’s also an interview up at TV Line with Felicia Day and Day will be tweeting live during the episode. If you participate in that, be nice.
The “medieval” dress-up looks like a hoot and a half, though I find it curious that Charlie is so upset with the brothers when they stumble across her. It seems that Charlie has decided to run away from any prospect of real-life heroism by play-acting at being a fantasy hero who gets tons of adoration from others for her empty acts of heroic fantasy. Which just emphasizes the character’s inherent cowardice and narcissism that much more. I wonder if the episode will actually address that or if it’s an unintentional undercurrent?
The synopsis for 8.13 (“Everybody Hates Hitler”) is up:
“SAM AND DEAN FACE OFF AGAINST A GOLEM – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) investigate the death of Rabbi Bass (guest star Hal Linden, Barney Miller), who spontaneously combusted. The case becomes ever more confusing when they learn that the Rabbi was researching Nazi Necromancers. Sam and Dean are attacked by a Golem (guest star John DeSantis) who turns out to belong to the Rabbi’s grandson, Aaron (Adam Rose). The key to the case lies with the Golem but Aaron doesn’t know how to control him, which leaves everyone in danger. Phil Sgriccia directed the episode written by Bed Edlund (#814).”
This sounds like fun (and I’ve always been curious about spontaneous combustion). It also sounds like a major ripoff of Thomas Sniegoski’s latest Remy Chandler novel by way of a certain X-Files episode. Not sure how I feel about that.
Official photos for 8.12 are also up. I don’t know how Henry Winchester will turn out, but I do like the idea of him a lot. The brothers could use some family again. So, if he’s remotely interesting and charismatic, I hope he sticks around and won’t be a one-shot character.
Some of you may have noticed that some strange doings are afoot with the show’s tie-ins, lately. Alice Henderson’s Fresh Meat, which I believe was originally supposed to be out a month ago, is now scheduled for February 19, while Tim Waggoner’s Carved in Flesh has been pushed back to April 16. This may be connected to the demise of Supernatural Magazine, which reputedly came down to a contractual dispute between Titan Magazines and Warner Bros. Or not. Rumors on the official Facebook page have a final issue (#36) coming out late this month (unlikely, at this point) or as late as June.
Finally, ratings for “Torn and Frayed” were a healthy 0.9/2 and 1.99 million in audience, putting the show once again at third on the network, despite the series premiere of new show The Carrie Diaries.
We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm and Supernatural.
If you like these spoilers, please help continue our site by making a donation, buying one of our fiction issues, or buying one of our books: Fraterfamilias, Historical Lovecraft, Future Lovecraft, and our Gothic horror anthology, Candle in the Attic Window. You can also buy Paula’s non-fiction book on medieval Spanish history, Templar Convivencia.
Didn’t early spoilers say there was supposed to be a “Katherine Hepburn” type character with some big secret in the Henry Winchester episode (8.12)? I’m wondering if they dropped that idea, or am I remembering wrong.
Just posted interview with Felicia Day:
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Felicia-Day-Supernatural-LARP-and-the-Real-Girl-1059436.aspx
From what Felicia says, it sounds like the brothers are getting along well in this episode. I understand not wanting to drag the conflict out forever and Dean acting pissy after Sam chose to stay would just make him look bad. But I hope Carver isn’t naive enough to think everything’s now fine between them. And even if Dean has forgiven Sam, fandom sure hasn’t. I need to see Sam being humble, admitting he was wrong, showing Dean he’s not just the default guy Sam hangs out with because there’s no one else. It shouldnt’ be a big deal, given the show’s done this with Dean for 8 years running. I think you’re right about what you said in the “Torn” thread, Paula. THe foundation is already there to turn around Sam’s character- the only question is, whether the writers are willing to do so.
I have seen so many posts on boards, exclaiming how happy they are that “they chose each other” and “they’re back together”. I don’t get it. They didn’t choose each other, and the only way they’re back together is by physical proximity. I sincerely hope that Carver doesn’t drop the ball, that he actually writes Sam into that “mature” relationship he keeps touting. But I’ve lost hope.
Hope springs eternal whilst I sport my deangoggles… just because they seem to be getting along doesn’t mean a deserved comeuppance and/or spectacular blow-up is not in the cards for the future. Frankly she talks about Dean the whole time which makes me think he is feeling perky and Sam is silent and sullen.
They made Sam too awful this season not to correct him. All the fanspec that there was something wrong with him again shows how awful he seemed to the entire fandom. They chose to do this, repeatedly, culminating in Dean being bloody and chained to a radiator and Sam bailing on a hunt that he prioritized, stealing Martin’s car and abandoning them both (Martin obviously unstable and Dean unconscious, bloody, and in need of medical assistance for all he knew)- all for a potential booty call. He then went on to sleep with Amelia despite the fact that she was married and giving it a go. This is abominable, selfish, irresponsible and unheroic behavior. The only defense his fans were left with, after months of nonstop delusional speculation that he made a secret deal And/or was mindwiped/ manipulated, was that mean please Dean made him go by sending that text. That is no argument in the logic department but the samfans have nothing else to go with.
without a doubt the writers have written Sam this way for a reason. To me the only reason is to call back to seven seasons if this nonsense, only this time there is no supernatural out. Therefore, the character has to be rehabilitated.
I think Kevin (Sam 2.0) was in this episode only because he has grown up enough to realize that he has important work to do for the greater good, and that this works trumps his personal life (and family!!!!l). Clearly a lesson for Sam, but also the reaction shot of Dean might mean a different lesson for him. I know people assume he cut off Benny because of Kevin’s comment, but Dean already understands that – he has devoted his life to the cause. I am hoping that the aha look actually impacted his decision to let Sam go… And the reality of cas’ situation as well as the fact that there was no reasoning with Sam regarding Benny, influenced his decision to cut Benny loose.
I should add that as bad as Sam is looking, Dean is being written as having grown and matured, albeit with an edge that combines fabulous badassness, ptsd, brutal honesty, and an undercurrent of violence (when is decapitation not his thing!).
Hope springs eternal…
Uh…yeah they did choose each other. Dean dumped Benny before he knew Sam’s decision. If he didn;t do it cause he shouldn’t have a vamp friend, why do it before Sam came back? If Sam didn’t chose Dean, Benny would have been a great ally to help with Cas and Crowley. No Dean dumped Benny to signify Sam’s feeling was correct that Dean shouldn’t be beholden to someone who saved his life. Whether Sam came back or not.
And Sam gave up his married woman to stay with Dean. He doesn’t know Dean dumped Benny either. The show was written to so that both brothers forgave each other and choose each other. From my perspective Sam had nothing to forgive as Dean only pointed out Sam’s true faults. As I recall Sam didn’t have one fault to comeback with in Dean. Dean caved as usual and both boys characters showed no growth. No reason it should ever be addressed again.
So sad!
I like the idea of grandpa w too. Still have hope for a deancentric episode! The promos are very Dean heavy.
I like the idea of grandpa w too. Still have hope for a deancentric episode! The promos are very Dean heavy. By the way not everybody hates hitler. My mother-in-law, who was a German refugee during the war, once used the phrase “poor little hitler was blamed for everything “. Her perspective is very different having suffered during the war and remembering allied propaganda, her city cleves being bombed to rubble and the occupation ; nonetheless I do tease her for saying that because it was so unexpected and a little comical as a result.
Thanks for the summary of spoilers Paula.
I’m not a fan of Charlie’s character so hopefully they toned her down. Yes, Dean can certainly rock the knights outfit, even if it isn’t entirely accurate. I know want to see Jensen in some type of period piece.
A publicist for the show (@chico6) tweeted some stuff that sounds like its from episode 12
Suzanne Gomez @Chico6
Oh that’s bad dude. Dean is going to freak out when he sees what you just did. #SPN
Expand
4m Suzanne Gomez Suzanne Gomez @Chico6
Mister, if Dean asks you a question, you answer quickly. #SPN
Expand
13m Suzanne Gomez Suzanne Gomez @Chico6
Catching up on #Supernatural episodes! Hi little John Winchester!
Suzanne Gomez @Chico6
I love it when the guys talk about their dad. #SPN
So it sounds like we meet weeJohn
Thanks for the round up Paula. I think tonight’s eppie will be fun. I can’t believe Dean was wearing a wig. That needs a good explanation. Hehehe… and why the crown? Is Dean her King? How funny would that be. Wasn’t there some rumor out that Dean and Charlie kiss? I guess after the facepaint and wigs, what’s a kiss between friends. LOL.
Dear God, I hope not. It’s bad enough that she’s a lesbian who, yet, wants to spend all her time with ugly men.
Well, we got our answer – Dean was the dick for sending the text and Sam has no responsibility and is justifiably self-righteous and pissy…and no mention of Dean having been to fae land.
I wasn’t impressed with the direction or the writing, Braveheart or no Braveheart. Very pedestrian, not funny, and what was with that lighting? Robbie Thompson has replaced Adam Glass at the bottom of my writer’s list. Dean was a caraciture between court jester and an action figure.
I thought the coda was funny (Braveheart was a really stupid movie, though that speech is hilarious). The rest of the episode was…pointless.
I wouldn’t say pointless. I think Carver has sealed the deal on expanding the SPNverse with Garth and Charlie as permanent recurring characters, what with the Charlie not running from reality, call me if you need me, and all the Garth references.
It’ll probably be Kevin who faces the tests. How could they possibly let only one of the Winchesters be the hero? On the other hand, it could be Sam, , who didn’t bother to look for Dean in Purgatory and he gets his redemption through saving Dean from his fear of Hellhounds.
If Kevin does, I hope he dies immediately afterward. He is getting on my last nerve.
In fact, if I had a main complaint about this show right now, it’s that the good characters are all one-shots, killed off, or written off to Character Siberia, while the bad characters just. won’t. leave.
I am so done with Carver. Does he not even realize that in just the last episode it was Sam’s CHOICE to give up Amelia FOR THE HUNT, but it this episode it’s Dean’s fault and Dean feels oh so bad for it!
And Dean’s BFF, Cas, in just the last episode was BLEEDING TEARS and returning to Heaven, a place he feared would do him in…and not one mention of him. And Benny, I assume, is meaningless. I can’t even tell you right now why they spent money on him or his whole backstory episode.
All of that and what we have is Sam, once again, suffering the worst pain ever and it’s all Mean Dean’s fault, because he hurt his feelings.
I’ll probably continue to watch for JA’s performances, but this show’s shelf date really has expired. I just really like JA’s work, though.
Ginger
Wonderful isn’t Carver? I’d say I hope the series gets cancelled and that last week was Carver’s Waterloo, but I suspect JA will not do another series after SPN. Just too many comments from him over the years about, LA, long hours, the stress acting..ect. And now with his first child….
He also seems to prefer behind the camera work (directing) as opposed to in front of (acting) so, I think if you want to see him, this is it.
@ Cassieo: I don’t expect JA to do another series either. That’s why I’ll continue to watch this show for a while. It may get to the point that I can’t stomach it at all…for instance, if Sam or Kevin do the big tests while Dean huffs and puffs in the background.
Well, now. Don’t we all feel so sorry for poor Samam. What he must be going through leaving his married woman. And Dean doesn’t even remember Benny.
But we should be glad Sam let Dean have a little fun. How big of him to come down to Dean’s level for a short time, even with the dicky thing Dean did to poor Sam with the text. Hmm…wonder if Charlie thought it was okay of Sam to get Martin killed, or leave Dean in Purgatory. Well guess so! Dean is the bad person in the series.
Anyone think Sam is still going to grow up? Lets hope Sam lets Dean continue to hunt with him…shall we?
“8×14 Trial and Error:
KEVIN DECIPHERS THE TABLET — Kevin (guest star Osric Chau) deciphers the tablet and figures out how to close the gates of Hell. He tells Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) that according to the tablet one person must face a series of three tests designed by God. The first one – kill a hellhound. Sam and Dean argue over who should complete the trials. Kevin Parks directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb.”
Show, if you have Sam be the one who does the tests–or worse, some random Guest Character–I will snark strips off you for the rest of your existence.
Actuall Paula, I was thinking it would be Sam. It’s his time to shine. Dean had Purgstory. Hope I’m wrong. I only watch the show for Dean and I hope I see more of him soon.
Dag nab it! Why do I keep getting double posts. Sorry.
Oh here is the trailer for next week. At least we have Dean in the promos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hbxTayT2fBM
I know you all think I’m an idjit… here goes.
I don’t think they are getting along. Dean is finding PISSY Sam a bore. Now Sam is pretending to be a great hunter. For some reason i get a kill the wabbit vibe from Samsin (so intended).
I thought Dean was bitching about Sam to Charlie and we saw the tail end. Dean didn’t seem very guilty about the text. He gave the reason for breaking up with benny- it’s not safe to have personal relationships in this job-hunt it gets you killed. He was saying it to explain why Sam left the girl, but it was clear to Charlie and me that he was thinking about Benny. Charlie asks if he broke up with someone too. The question was surprising to Dean and I almost thought they would have Charlie help him come to terms with his interest in forming deep attachments to males.
So neither broke up for each other and they have a long bumpy road towards a mature relationship. Dean is really trying. Sam is being a self absorbed twit.
Very angry at Charlie for saying that Dean ruined Sam’s chance at normal. Very angry that Dean had no role regarding fairies. At least he fought the good fight unlike Sam who made PISSY ace, flirted, and was immobilized by chain mail. He also didn’t seem to care about putting Charlie in danger ( although why did Dean let her go off alone…)
I loved the coda too. I liked DEAN and Charlie. There was more chemistry and appearance of affection between those two than with Sam. I figurd out the baddie quickly. Enjoyed the drawn and quartered opening- not nearly enough blood though.
They convinced me that not only is Sam a self entitled tool, he’s useless and humorless. Arrow has a character that reminds me of him and she’s a teenager.
Speaking of arrow, Oliver and his partner had a falling out over whether to trust someone that the partner had history with. Oliver mistrusted him because he was on the list. No name calling or hussy fits. Two men that respect and admire and trust each other…. one can only wish but it’s a pipedream unless Sam changes.
If Dean is not the one to close the gates I will scream, and I may have to put a curse on someone … I was really tired of Sam playing the great hunter in this episode. My only hope is that they are still hitting those anvils about it being wrong to run away. Dean is the only one that faced up to the situation in the premiere. Sam and Kevin are there to help. If Sam pitches another fit Dean should borrow death’s ring, reopen the cage and toss the constipated crybaby in.
At least Dean isn’t putting up with Sam’s passive aggressive act – boo hoo I gave up everything (cheap dirty hotel rooms with stained rubber sheets ; the sordid sort of stuff exene sang about on under the big black sun).
At least they didn’t pretend it was all roses and sunshine!
Who wrote this. Some cute moments but yuk.
Robbie Thompson of “Bitten” fame. Course he also did “Time After Time” which was excellent. And yes, the chemistry between Dean and Charlie was good. No harm in her offering to help them now and then. At least if there is a guest star, Sam’s role on air is diminished. The less I see of Sambutt the better.
Oh and Sam the great is so dismissive of Garth yet Dean can acknowledge tracking them was smart. Both kevin and Garth have out-teched samwhine the narcissist this season. Could it be that Sam is average in the hunting community.
How is it possible that they do not see how Sam is written ; it can’t all be the acting can it?
I am still holding out for that great twist paula says Carver is famous for…
Is it possible to salvage Sam without sacrificing Dean. Will he let Sam fail and fall as befits him. Or is he setting it up for Dean to all medieval /purgatory on his ass. Aaaargghh
It can’t be the usual Sam trope because he’s just being a PISSY self absorbed twit. Can’t blame that on demon blood or soullessness or crazytown. It’s Sam in his purest form.
It can’t be in the contract that Sam is the hero and Dean is the doormat. If so why not have samwhine the great rescue Dean in purgatory. Why have his great love story be so common and sordid. Eby have the hero abandon kevin. It is not adding up.
I’m still trying to cheer for Carver because overall I’ve liked more than I have hated for this season and there is quite a bit more to go, but if the belitting of Dean to get across how innocent poor little Sammy is doesn’t stop I’m gonna flip my stuff. It’s like one of the things I thought for sure Carver would get rid of and I’m disappointed to still see writers getting away with it. Also the no Castiel mention plucked my nerves as well.
I don’t understand why the keep getting rid of characters we honestly like yet keep these horrible ones. I could put up with Sam and his many issues if Castiel was still around, hell even Benny of Rufus or that old cop dude from tonight’s episode that kept making jokes. Even the Samelia stuff was easier to get through if Castiel/Benny were around. Now it’s just like meeeeh.
Really liked the episode. And I can forgive them not mentioning Cas only because basically that whole episode screamed Dean/Cas and Cas/Naomi and was SO beyond filled with visual callbacks to prior episodes and also picked up on themes that I was distracted.
Things I loved:
- Dean in costume and nerding out over LARPing. It would be so sweet if it wasn’t so incredibly sad at the same time. He didn’t have a childhood, so he loves all that stuff even more now. And that’s what I love about Dean, he – despite all life has thrown his way – will always stay a kid at heart to some extent.
- All the Dean/Cas and Cas/Naomi parallels to Charlie/Gilda.
- The cop. And his comment about “Kids and texting and murder.” Perfect callback to Sam and Dean’s relationship and what happened in 8×09.
- The second LARPER dying: Bleeding from his eyes. Perfect callback to Castiel in 8×10.
- The fairy having to return to fae world with her master. Perfect callback to Cas and Samandriel and heaven.
- Dean’s “let Go”-comment to Charlie.
- Continuing to explore Reality vs. Dream World.
- The whole forest scene and how Dean’s body language changed immediately. How much do you wanna bet that in that moment Dean was back in purgatory?
- Also the tent and how it was shot was a nice callback to the season premiere and how Dean came out of the woods.
- Dean’s “Freedom”-speech.
Things I hated:
- The show acting like Sam was the only one who had said goodbye to someone who was important. Oh and don’t even try to tell us Dean didn’t feel guilty about abandoning Benny. Really, Dean is all “you need time, that’s okay” and is being all nice, would it be TTO HARD to have Sam say something like that to Dean as well??????
- Dean’s fairy-past not being mentioned.
- Not mentioning Cas. Though I can live with that given that actually to me the whole episode was about Dean/Cas/Naomi.
OH; AND IF IT ISN’T DEAN WHO WILL TAKE ON THESE TASKS TO CLOSE THE GATES OF HELL I AM FREAKING FLYING TO VANCOUVER OR WHEREVER THE WRITERS ARE HOLED UP AND START SCREAMING AND THROWING PUNCHES. I MEAN IT’S NOT LIKE DEAN JUST SPENT A YEAR IN PURGATORY AND KNOWS HOW TO FIGHT AND ALL… So yeah, if it’s Sam I am going to be FURIOUS!
I agree with you 100%. I was really enjoying it despite PISSY Sam because I think that is his character and they should still be getting along. I also thought DEAN was trying to make the best of things, and not make up with Sam.
The subtext was so on point. My mouth was hanging open because I thought they dammmm..
They are going to go there..
But then Charlie’s comment and Sam trying to act like Dean was a buffoon and he was the great hunter. Yada yada yada.
And all of the other things you mentioned, like cas and Benny not being at the forefront of Dean’s mind. It sucked the joy out.
The sheriff was great. And I loved Dean and Charlie. I saw him bonding with her, sharing with her, emoting being with her and riffing with her the way he used to with Sam. I think Dean is fully capable of a life without Sam and kinda wants it because being with Sam is a drag. They are sure making Sam look like the kind of toxic friend that needs dumping fast.
So while I enjoyed the joy of it, enjoyed Dean’s joie de vivre , enjoyed his sibling relationship with Charlie, loved the subtext… the bad parts …. kinda ruined it.
How could they ignore Dean’s fairy backstory? !!!!
Then the news about the three tasks…
On the one hand Dean is the only one that hasn’t run away and he is the warrior. He is the only one that has been tempered by hell, purgatory, angels. Fee
… and although Sam needs redemption he needs to atone by supporting Dean, NOT by jumping in another hole. I am seeing red. I am clinging to the fact that Carver does understand character development, Sam has the human story, and there is no point to making Sam this awful only for there to be a second metaphorical hole of the worstest pain…
CORRECTION : they should NOT be getting along.
I am not a big Charlie fan, I think she is kind of creepy, but I did like the chemistry she had with Dean, it was nice. Really, Dean has chemstry with pretty much everyone on the show, in fact the show goes out of its way to show how well he relates to all the other characters. At least that’s one thing they haven’t taken away from Dean. He even relates to SAM in all his unglory, better than Sam relates to anyone. Sam is walking through the show like he is in a different program. It’s weird. Whether it is a writing choice or the actor’s choice, it is negatively affecting almost every episode.
I don’t want to be so angry at this show, but what the heck are they doing? I really don’t understand what the writers are trying to accomplish this season. The writing and pacing is so heavy-handed, clumsey and shallow. I am beginning to feel that looking for any depth to the storylines is foolish because the PTB don’t look at the show the same way and don’t have the depth as writers to be able to put any into the story. I bet if you locked all the SPN writers in a room for a 100 years with a typewriter, they would NOT come up with Shakespeare.
Next week looks good. And then 8×14. Man, if Dean is not the one to complete those three trials – well, won’t that be a shame? And a tell about the showrunner’s plan for the brothers If they once again throw Dean, their best character, aside for Sam it will make me very sad indeed.
Unfortunately, I really don’t expect it’s going to change. For 8 years, they’ve ground Dean into dust, aborted his stories, and made him out to be an awful brother who doesn’t love and cherish the specialest-snowflake-ever-created/woobiest-woobie-with-the-greatest-pain-evah Sam. And the viewers keep rewarding the writers by watching. You’d think after 8 years, we’d get the message, but no, we keep hoping that the amazing character of Dean will get his moment in the sun, no matter how many times Dean is smacked down and Sam is elevated.
“Really, Dean has chemstry with pretty much everyone on the show, in fact the show goes out of its way to show how well he relates to all the other characters. At least that’s one thing they haven’t taken away from Dean.”
The only reason that hasn’t been taken away, is because JA is incredibly talented. What do you think Amelia was about? She is supposed to be Sam’s one-twu-wuv. It’s continuously forced down our throats, in interview after interview. Yes, the writing is poor, but guess what? The writing for Dean is just as poor, and somehow JA manages to rise above it. Frankly, when was the last time JP had chemistry with *anyone*? Seriously, I can’t remember. It isn’t the writing coming through for Dean, it’s JA. And I really believe the reason so many people are hanging in there, despite the reality of the situation, is because of JA. We can see all that talent, and can’t believe the writers will let it go to waste, so we continue to tune it. And we continue to reward the writers for crapping on Dean.
Really, it isn’t the writer’s fault. It’s ours.
And that’s what they count on. They expect the mature element to stick around for JA and occasionally throw us a bone. They feel we will be understanding when they have to cater to the pre-teens to keep them interested and CW placated. It’s bad enough they have Dean apologize but to destroy a part of his principals and then have him act like he doesn’t even remember doing it? That he doesn’t remember his loyal friend? Not to mention rubbing our noses in it with Dean claiming the text wasn’t his finest hour. Really….he should have let Sam go so Benny could kill him so we woulndn’t have to see him again.
And this is just the second episode into the second half of the season. What are we going to have to put up with till March? I REALLY HATE SAM! I can’t think of another character I have want so strongly to die.
Does anyone know how to actually reach Carver to tell him what we think of his season so far? I know writing is useless. He never reads his fan mail .
The thing for me is not so much that there were good things and bad things about the script, it’s the fact that the script was so obviously written specifically for Felicia Day. There was no intent here to further the story along or to develop either of the two leads’ character — they were just shoehorned in, because they had to be.
I think that point is made pretty obvious by the fact that the writers decided to play up the lesbian angle as a means to showcase Charlie and forget about Dean’s prior fairy realm experience. Otherwise, logically, the fairy would have sought out Dean. And to further the point, the Dean Winchester that lives in my head would never casually discuss his and Sam’s latest fractured relationship issues with a one-off girl…Bobbie, maybe…Charlie Day, met briefly on one case, never.
And, of course, that makes me wonder if Sam and Dean are so depleted as characters that the writers are forced to find ways to use the leads while they write stories specifically for support characters (and I’m thinking of Bitten and a whole episode of Benny’s backstory).
So am I the only who thinks it might be possible that in order for Cas to be free from Naomi’s influence the very thing the Winchester will have to do is to destroy the angel tablet?
I mean: I am pretty sure the way Charlie freed the fairy was meant to be seen as some kind of foreshadowing. And what would be a nice equivalent to a book with spells that has to be destroyed? Now colour me crazy, but I think a tablet (with the word of god on it) might be a pretty good option.
Couldn’t this also maybe explain why Naomi is so afraid about the angel tablet falling into the “wrong” hands (or just in general other hands than hers)? Maybe she knows there will either be something to read about her and how to get ridd off her on that tablet or she knows that destroying the tablet alone would end her reign.
Couldn’t that make sense?
Crossed my mind since the subtext this episode and this season has been heavy and clearly important. However, they broke the Leviathan tablet and the prophet healed it by touch. Apparently breaking the demon tablet still allows it to be read. My guess is that something really important is on the other section of the demon tablet, obviously. Anyhow breakingvit won’t work and stabbing really could only scratch or chip it.
a lot to think on!!!
I read somewhere that Charlie stabbing the book was a callback to Harry Potter and the way horocruxes were dispatched. Seems plausible since in DDtattoo, it was established she was an hetmione fangirl.
But another supernatural /human relationship with the supernatural being being forced to kill for another’s powerplay and requires the human to save them is….!!!!! (And the kiss?!!!!).
The only good thing this latest episode revealed is that if Jensen ever takes on a medieval role somewhere, he will be, and look, damn good in it. I hope episodes like this, where he can play a little dress-up and get paid very well for it, is why he is still continuing with this show.
The lack of continuity, and all Sam-related backstory waffling, made this episode, particularly lacking. This writer still has a long ways to go.
Back to thick Dean goggles … It HAS to be DEAN. This is why…
Dean can see hellhounds and hear them. Sam cannot. Dean was a demon. Dean was a torturer. Dean is the human equivalent of Michael. Dean is the only brother spoken of in warrior/Knight terms. Dean is the only brother to have faced a hellbound and killed it.
I can imagine that killing an alpha might be involved. Dean was a vampire and is bff with a vampire. Dean went to purgatory and appears changed. Dean drank Phoenix blood.
It’s possible that one needs to then kill an entity from another realm (he can see fairies); but most likely it will involve angels. I can see that Dean has to be the one to kill naomi (who may not be angelic). I hope not cas. Perhaps it will involve tearing out an angel’s grace or something cas would do for Dean exclusively.
So ignoring the vampire and fairy connection at this point might be to keep us from guessing. Carver watched seasons 6-7 and had to see this stuff (Phoenix blood tie-in please). The thing is if Sam did the “hero’s” journey metaphorically in seasons 1-5; Dean has been doing it heart, body and soul for seasons 1-8. No one else can claim everything he has done. Dean is really quite mature and amazing this season. He has the mojo and the plan and the contacts and has been the only one in from the get go. Finally the premiere hinted that Dean and Sam were switching parts and that Dean had the supernatural Role.
As for Sam. He has the human story. Well it certainly wasn’t just Amelia. She was a tool for Sam to wake up and grow up. Sam, kevin and Charlie have all been shown the same lesson. One that Dean and Garth amazingly enough haven’t needed to learn.
It has to be Dean but most everyone will assume Sam. Sam’s redemption has to come from accepting responsibility for his choices and his life, and learning to be a good brother and friend. The man looks like an idiot this season. He is always incapacitated, or standing off to the side. He lacks fight skills.
It has to be Dean.
I can guess that the second task might involve killing
CHCH promo for 8.12:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqO3Gtv5RP8&feature=player_embedded
Interesting- I wonder if this mean the Winchesters are part angel?
Maybe, or he’s not their grandpa. I actually have wondered if they’d ever address how angel vessels were created or whether or not they could tap into their souls.
Also, I see the early demon cult spoiler they later tried to say was a foiler is real.
Please explain. I have long thought that the angels must have done something to Dean like YED did to prime Sam. Whatever, Dean like john is connected to Michael, heaven’s hunter/soldier ;warrior.
Well, it’s never been entirely explained why some people can contain angels and others can’t, let alone why archangel vessels were so specific to Michael and Lucifer. When they introduced the idea that souls were nuclear reactors, I thought they might connect it to the reasoning why angels and archangels needed vessels in the first place. But Gamble never did. It looks as though Carver is going there now.
My theory has always been that Michael did something to a pregnant Mary in “Song” (maybe gave Dean some of his grace?) to mirror Sam being fed demon blood as a baby. And that was going to be the “relationship between Michael and Dean” Kripke was talking about regarding the story originally planned for PONR. Of course, that got jettisoned when the show got its renewal and we got the Adamichael crapfest instead.
I’ve really wanted an explantion for the what makes a person suitable to be a vessel as well. And why it’s tied to particular family lines. I’ve wonderd if perhaps these families are descendants of some sort of nephilims. Or maybe they are descendants of angels that tore out their grace (like Anna) and were reborn in human vessels? Anna was able to reabsorb her grace to become an angel again.
Could you elaborate on what you mean, Paula?
Yeah, I always thought it was a bit suspicious that Michael was hovering around Mary like that when she was pregnant. I also thought it a bit odd that Lucifer never even tried to corrupt Dean and get him to say yes. Considering Dean’s self-sacrificial nature, he probably would have done it to save Sam and Lucifer would have spiked his brother in one fell swoop.
The most rational explanation, based on folklore, would seem to be that those humans who are vessels are descended from angels in some way–but then, what about the archangel vessels?–especially considering all the talk about genetic tinkering from Heaven as late as getting Mary and John together.
I also always figured that Adam was a stopgap measure like Nick and that Michael would have been forced to vacate him at one point. And also that Michael was not up to full power with Adam the way he was with Dean.
The thing with humans is if we’re nuclear reactors and angels are big beams of photons that can completely recharge from a human soul, doesn’t that imply that archangelic vessels, especially, are the batteries that charge angels and archangels? And that such humans could tap into their own souls in some way?
Interesting… I watched the promo, nut couldn’t hear what was said really- so will be unspoiled. All the trailers have been so deanilicious!
Prudom’s review is up and thoughtful regarding that infamous minute between Dean and Charlie.
Bardicvoice’s review of torn and frayed is a good read; as is her piece: my brother’s keeper.
Having seen season 1 of being human, I think Carver is too character oriented a writer to not see the problems with the writing for both in the past. So with blinders and fingers crossed!
Prudom’s review was thoughtful, but her take required way too much of the fan’s having to fill in the blanks. A script should be clear on what it is trying to convey, but the whole thing Prudom discussed regarding the Dean/Charlie conversation amounted to “what ifs and maybes.” I’ve always thought of that as fanwanking.
I like Prudom’s reviews, but I don’t always agree with them. This is one that I found offered a different perspective than mine on the episode, and I do like an opportunity to have a look at what the other side of the coin looks like.
Carver may be able to see the problems with the writing of the leads in the past, but I would hope that he pays attention to the problems some of us fans are seeing with the writing this season. I think most fans saw the writing problems of the past quite clearly and was hoping he would correct them. I know I was.
Purdom’s reviews are all ways thoughtful. She always tries to keep the fans interested in both leads, but with that scene, what ifs and maybes are all you can do. Really the dialogue did not leave and room for ambiguity at all. No way around it. Carver was very clear in what it said. Dean was wrong to send the text. He was thoughtless and unfeeling in his action. And that for me clears up what Carver understands about both characters and it is a far cry from what fans do.
It one thing to show that they can error but what was the flip side of not sending the text? Would the outcome have been better? Either Sam or Benny would have been killed and Dean didn’t want that. Martin was a deadman walking as soon as he got involved with Sam. Course he didn’t know that. He didn’t realize this was personal for Sam. He was fighting for his doormat and any and all w extras were expendable for him. Sam was not interested in Martin except as a tool… And ends to a means and whether the writers meant it as such that’s the way it was written. And I doubt that Carver meant it as anything else. He had shown on BH he gets characters. That was deliberate on his part. Deliberately misleading. Just like the whole first half of the season. Deliberately misleading Dean and Sam fans alike. He knew from day one he wasn’t going to change Dean or Sam. So why do it? Couldn’t he have just continued with the Purgatory arc with put it? Had both bots work on getting Dean and Cas back? They could have still use Benny as is just made him a friend if both leads? Why couldn’t they have had Benny be a new member of team free will? Get both sides of the fans behind Benny. No year separation and no soap opera arc.
I see absolutely no benefit in pitting the boys against each other for no good reason. Character growth was not on his agenda at all All he did was make Sambutt look sympathetic again and Dean another asshole. Is that what thus series all about? And make no mistake that was his intention for the start. The writing staff does the episode for Carver maybe pathetic but the message is exactly what he wants to get across. I just don’t get what both leads can’t be equals. It that so hard to do? Maybe I’m expecting to much from the CW. They ultimately decide what goes and what stays.
Okay I’m done whining now. On to see what good things Sam does next week.
The thing is neither sending the text nor Dean in anyway damaged Sam’s relationship with Amelia. Sam left her against her wishes before he knew Dean was alive. The only thing the text accomplished besides saving Sam’s life, was getting Sam laid. Maybe Sam’s just PO’d because he lost the jar of vaseline and finally saw the sordid mess for what it was. Anyhow. Dean told him to go back to her.
Sending the text was smart. It was also cold – a dick move that saved lives.
We only saw the tail end of the conversation. Is Sam letting Dean think it is his fault? Is Dean speaking ironically about how he ruined Sam’s life? Dean didn’t look guilty about anything. He was rather matter if fact until he spoke about needing to cut ties and keep one’s head in the game. Maybe he’s transferring his sense of loss onto Sam?
Sam has not shown us heartbreak. He’s being PISSY and pouty AND Dean looked pretty sick of it. I don’t see it as the same old dynamic. Dean maybe going through familiar motions but he’s not feeling it. And his speech to Sammy at the end about understanding his hurt had undertones of boohoo princess.
So unless the writers were lobotomized by Naomi, they know the story. And they know what Charlie said is not true.
The only thing I know about Carver is his prior SPN episodes and what he’s done with SPN this year. I am not seeing that he has lived up to his purported reputation for good characterization, methodical plotting, and decent pacing at all. I do agree that we are getting exactly what he wants from his writers, so I have to agree with Cassieo on that one. I think he and his writers are on the same page, and I think Carver’s idea of Sam and Dean is exactly the characters EK gave us; Sam the sensitive hero and Dean the lap dog, caterer to all things Sam.
I am a bit surprised that he managed to surpass SG on the awfulness of his character, Amelia, as compared to her character, Lisa, and there are no words to accurately describe how much worse the Sam/Amelia love story is than the Dean/Lisa love story was. Yeah, Benny was a great character in the beginning and Purgatory was, to me, the best thing to come along on SPN in a very long time. Too bad it was only used as a smokescreen, instead of a real story.
I’m done. The four references in this episode to what a meanie Dean is and all the moping over the lost love of a drunken, antagonistic, married drip at the expense of Dean’s character was too much. Turning Garth into Bobby 2.0 and the obvious delight with and writing scripts specifically for a character like Charlie gives me insight into the type of show Carver is going for, and that is not horror/drama or a modern day western.
I’ll watch for JA’s performances for a while (because I don’t think he’ll take another series when SPN is over). Whether I’ll last until the end of the series will be determined between now and the end of the season, and probably by what character is picked to do the three tests.
The promo pics for 8×14 are up. Actually all of the pics are so exchangeable that you can’t take away anything from them. Well, the pics of Kevin seem pretty telling about Kevin’s mental state band physical state, but all others? Not so much. Oh, wait no, I forgot to mention the picture so many are freaking out about. Dean kissing or being kissed.
There’s also the 8.12 sneak peek: http://spn-party.livejournal.com/125693.html
Does anyone remember the early spoiler about Elle. I know I remember that name being mentioned. Was she the one with some big secret?
Yeah, I remember that one, also the one about the twins who may or may not have been daughters of Osiris.
I hate that kiss with the force of a thousand burning suns. But that’s because I’m a destiel fan and don’t like the showrunners stringing me along.
I hate that kiss with the force of a thousand burning suns. But that’s because I’m a destiel fan and don’t like the showrunners stringing me along and making me hopeful.
Oh I am not a big fan of Dean kissing anybody else as Cas either, but I refuse to freak out until I have seen the episode and know the context and all.
The sneak peek and promo for 8×12 look great! I am so thrilled for that episode.
Pics for “Everybody Hates Hitler” have surfaced as well and holy moly that guy that plays the golem is one tall dude. Scary. I mean even Jared Padalacki looks tiny next to him and that should mean something.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong but:
We got
a) Castiel being manipulated and controlled by Naomi
and
b) a fairy that was forced to kill on behalf of her master’s will
and
c) a golem that is causing trouble, because the person it belongs to doesn’t know how to “control” or work with him.
———————————————————
I guess we have a pattern on our hands.
Do I spot parallels?
Where the hell is the symbol on the Golem’s forehead?
“Well, aren’t you a fussy one?” (Says the shopkeeper to Sam in A Very Supernatural Christmas)
Maybe the forehead symbol wasn’t mentioned in the first paragraph in Wikipedia.
Looks like they switched Edlund’s “Everybody Hates Hitler” and “Trial and Error” around for airing. Maybe something to do with Sweeps Month.
The promos look like the next three episodes will be good, and then we get to Man’s Best Friends with Benefits, which on the surface sounds cringe-worthy. Of course, we have to get through Adam Glass before we get to Ben Edlund, so there is that.
Since there’s a short hiatus in March (two or three weeks, I think), I hope these next four episodes moves the mytharc along and leaves the abiding brother love parked somewhere. I’m not looking forward to the supposed big ‘raw, emotional’ scene that is spoiled to be upcoming.
The hiatus is a month long. The last episode of this run is supposed to be February 27. Then we’re supposed to get our next original episode on March 27. Even so, if things remain as currently scheduled, we won’t break again until after 8.16. Which is kind of nice.
The symbol is an inherent part of the Golem legend. The symbol (usually the Holy Name of God) activates it. Rubbing off the symbol, or part of it to change the word to something like “dead” or “not alive,” is the only way to stop or kill the golem. Forgetting that is like forgetting that Superman can fly.
Ha! Who said these writers know Superman can fly?
and when did they switch the episodes around? I saw the stills for Trial and Error” listed as 8.14 and the stills for 8.13 as Everybody Hates Hitler just today. We’re they labeled wrong? And anyone heard of Desantis? Man he’s huge! I think he has a genetic disease that make people keep growing. Can remember the name of it though. Wonder where the found him. Anyway it does look good.
I have been thinking about your fear regarding cas vis a viz the larp analogy with GILDA returning to her realm.
We’ve been shown 4 MOTW supernatural/human relationships this season, and each one has ended differently.
Heartache – relationship lasts until supernatural being is becomes suicidal (yikes) over the killing he’s done and the fear of being alone caused by his aging human love.
Bitten- short-lived relationship. Human ‘s desire for the relationship overcomes her fear and common sense. Bad human behaves monstrous, resulting both losing her humanity against her will. She is alone and fighting to retain her humanity.
Blood brother- love of human redeems supernatural killer, restoring his humanity. Relationship causes human to lose humanity and she likes it. Former supernatural lover humanized by love allows his inhuman former lover to be killed because she has lost her humanity.
Larp and the real girl- human saves supernatural being from bad human controlling them through magic; supernatural creature returns to their realm.
Then there are the relationships associated with Dean, Benny and castiel. One is friendship where benny has repeatedlly saved dean and cas’ life. The other is that profound bond that exceeds the concept of friendship. By all accounts these are both positive important relationships in Dean’s life.
Sam too has had two close relationships with the supernatural, one friendship and one romantic. His friend was a killer that had to be put down by Dean; and unlike Benny who reveres human life, Sam was resentful and angry. The clear parallel for Benny is amy not Ruby; although many Sam apologists try to make the comparison to Sam being burned by Ruby to explain his hypocritical hatred of Benny; and they desperately want him to be bad like Ruby so Sam is rehabilitated (why does someone else need to be bad? Why can’t Sam choose to be good?). The show has hammered the addiction trope with Benny from the get go. Addicts aren’t evil although they may do bad things to get there fix. Benny is good but as with paddiction, he needs to find the will to resist.
Castiel is the parallel to Ruby in Sam’s life which is pretty obvious considering their opposing roles in season 4. And back then cas was supposed to handle Dean. He certainly never manipulated him. Dean stabs Ruby after she uses Sam to open Lucifer’s cage. Sam stabs cas after he has opened the door to purgatory. Cas doesn’t die because he has leveled up from angel.
So what are these parallels telling us besides Sam makes bad choices and Dean appears to make good ones because he looks for loyalty, shared sense of responsibility and commitment in his bonds forged outside of family.
The writers love their parallels! As such Sam had to try and kill Benny (and fail?). Maybe this is why Sam’s behavior made no sense logically.
Regarding the romantic pairings, perhaps looking at Dean’s reaction is key.
Heartache – sympathized with Eleanor; strange musing look.
Bitten- sympathized with kate; strange musing look.
Blood brother. Kills Andrea in front of benny and knows Benny will agree. This is opposite to the Amy situation where he killed her behind Sam’s back and knew Sam would flip.
Larp- too goofy to use as an example.
They are hitting the romance parallels harder than Benny’s addiction, and it appears to be for Dean’s benefit as well as ours.
I would also say again it makes sense logically based on Dean’s experiences. Given this love of paralleling (Sam gets a girl and dog and makes bad choices; Sam opens a door and Lucifer gets out), Dean really has to be the one centered in this mytharc and should be the hero that closes the door and gives castiel his freedom from heaven. We’ve been told Sam has the human story (paralleling Dean earlier); so Sam needs to learn to love his brother? Given Sam’s track record of bad decisions, that will take a long while!
Hmmmm … this exercise on thinking about parallels, subtext and mirroring, which are really prominent this season, makes me think Carver has the mojo and the plan. He’s just taking his sweet time which drives us batty, and keeps the internet ablaze with chatter. Apparently supernatural was a top trending subject last week.
An aha moment! Pairing supernatural with arrow sends a message as to the type of show they want it to be. In terms of having an action hero that all characters revolve around… DEAN DEAN DEAN!
Yes it was a top treading story, but it was trending for the wrong reason. The tread was how wrong Dean was and how everyone knew Sam wasn’t at fault. Sam wasn’t shown to be part of any plot to free Dean but having Dean say he was jealous of Sam was just as effective. What we need is for the show to trend because Sam grew a pair and finally accepted responsibility for his misdeeds. That isn’t likely to ever happen.
I’m not too thrilled at all the romantic parallels the show is taking (20th century sense; 19th century sense might actually work), but I can see where you’re going with this.
It makes sense that Dean be the Hero of this arc, since Sam was so firmly made the Hero of the last big mytharc. I don’t mind other characters being brought in and having their own stories. Personally, I wish they hadn’t killed Andrea off and I hope they bring Elizabeth back, because I like Benny’s story.
But this show is obsessed with its brotherly parallels and it will always feel lopsided unless they finally play out a full mytharc focused on Dean–not on Sam, not on Castiel, not on “both” brothers and having it be on Sam again, and not on some random guest star. Having that parallel does not preclude bringing in other characters and weaving their stories through the show.
You do not have to be an EDG to see that story logic.
I am amazed that you caught my logical since I now see how badly written my post was. Any angle that I go at it I come up with Dean. And Sam, how beautiful would it be for his role to learn to live a respect his brother!
I think that the intent was clearly spelled out in the premiere as far as the mirroring and their switched roles. And whereas Sam was apparently the sympathetic nice Guy who meant well but did wrong, perhaps Dean is the hardass who makes some dick moves to do right?
What is this business of drawing on one’s soul for energy. Dean’s has to be the strongest if he was Michael’s intended.
In the CHCH promo, we see Henry using blood magic and then Sam talks about Henry drawing on the power of his own soul to travel through time. And yes, the implication (if you follow it through to the logical conclusion, which the writers haven’t, yet) is that the chosen vessel of the most powerful archangel is also the human with the strongest soul, ever.
It was not a dick move of Dean’s to sent the text. It was a smart military strategy which showed Dean did not underestimate his enemy. Which is why Sam is still alive. Dean was sharp and knows his brother inside and out and saving Sam’s skin is not a dick move. Dumping Benny is a dick move, taking Sam back is a dick move. Sending the text was a smart Dean move we used to always see Dean do in the earlier seasons. And Carver should have portrayed it as such.
Cassieo, it was smart and it saved Sam’s life and Dean didn’t mean for Sam to take it the way he did. If Dean had sent it to an enemy, no problem. It was a cold thing to do his own brother. It was manipulative. Usually manipulation is Sam’s purview ; I don’t like it when Sam manipulates Dean. However Dean has the self awareness and decency to admit his mistakes and apologize. Sam does not. He owes Dean, Amelia, Benny, Garth apologies; and he owes Kevin a far better one.
I don’t think Dean owes Sam any apology for the text, quite the opposite. Sam went after Dean’s friend with full intent to kill him, brought in an insane Hunter who knocked Dean out, participated in leaving his brother handcuffed to a radiator and helpless, then responded to the trick text Dean sent by ditching said Hunter in the woods to go on what was effectively a 12-hour booty call, indirectly sending the crazy Hunter off on kidnapping an innocent and torturing her in an attempt to kill Dean’s friend.
In light of the situation, I think Sam got off far more lightly than he deserved (He deserved, at the very least, a severe beating of his own along the lines of the end of “You Can’t Handle the Truth”) and that Dean had every right to act in self-defense by sending the text. I’ve seen a lot of bibro waffling about that, but I gotta say that what Sam did in “Citizen Fang” was so nasty and inexcusable that it made Sam’s not bothering to look for Dean in Purgatory (and, more importantly, not being apologetic about it) appear almost okay. And that’s saying something.
To add to Paula’s comment about Dean and an apology, everyone seems to forget that Dean wasn’t asking Sam to trust him or to trust Benny. He was asking that Sam and Martin go after the real killing vampire and, had Sam agreed to do that as a way of ensuring they weren’t doing a witch hunt, he would have seen that Benny was telling the truth. That’s another important point that the writers conveniently brushed aside in ascribing Dean as a big meanie in sending Sam the text.
I think even the most extreme fans are entitled to their own views (as long as they don’t try to shout everyone else down, which unfortunately happens a lot). I’m more concerned by the way the writers set up this conflict and put Sam in the wrong so clearly that you’d have to basically be in the show just for Sam and nothing else to see him as anything but wrong–then ignore the conflict and give us no payoff on it, whatsoever. Even if you believed Dean was at all in the wrong, what the hell kind of payoff is Dean getting lectured by a cowardly lion of a girl about responsibility while Sam is off turning down a girl’s offer to go to her tent? That’s just bad storytelling.
In that episode his brother was the enemy. Sam made himself the enemy when he went after Benny. No brother I know would ever do that to a sibling. Sorry but it was not cold at all. It was a maneuver Dean set up in case Sam became the enemy and he had every right to. All Sam had to do, in fact all Sam ever had to do, was trust his brother but he is to self-absorbed in his own wants to do that.
Sam asked for it and it was not cold or calculating. And Dean was wrong to apologize for it. That makes him look weak in Sam’s eyes and why Sam keeps treating him like dirt. Dean lets Sam get a way with crap like that. It’s what Carver was supposed to change. Paula is right. Dean would have been remiss if he didn’t send it.
Oh I agree whole heartedly that Sam’s behavior in Fang was appalling. He is a piece of work. I hate him.
I also have no problem that he apologized for hurting his brother. If we hurt someone here by trying to make a point we apologize, because the intent was not to hurt someone. It is a sign of maturity. Dean didn’t mean to terrify Sam and was obviously sorry Sam had to relive those terrors.
That said, I never saw Dean feel guilty or blame himself for anything. He told Sam it was all on him. He repeatedly warned Sam and Martin. Even when girl talking with Charlie he wasn’t guilty. More philosophical and maybe a little bit mocking Sam. It didn’t look to me like Charlie was morally outraged and she never said to treat Sam better. Now I don’t know the purpose for revisiting that except maybe to show it’s still an issue and Dean is rather YSW (yeah, sure, whatever) about it all. I also got that Sam is his PISSY pouty self, and DEAN is rather fed up with his act. To me it radiates Dean having moved on and having matured tremendously, and Sam being the Sam. The behavior is ridiculous in a 30 year old man, and decidedly unheroic.
The fact that so few actually see anything wrong with Sam’s actions is mouth dropping. The focus on the text may be more about the implications of it rather than the act itself or DEAN. As I said in an early post in an earlier column, the text says volumes about Dean’s changed perception of Sam. It is not protective big brother/Sammy first. He didn’t bend over and let Sam stick it to him and his friend.
It was a great moment for us but fairly paradigm shifting. I am sure he would do it again too.
That text is purgatory Dean shining through. To me it’s cold and brilliant and Machiavellian in the way offing a possessed mama tran is. Sam should thank his stars for his anti possession tat.
It would be interesting to rewatch the season looking for subtle feral – when is decapitation not my thing -Dean moments. I bet there are more there, especially given Jensen’s acting style.
So you prefer your romantic horror to be in the Neo Gothic vein. They are hitting it hard and it is very different vibe (and assumedly intent) than jokey nods to destial.
Nah, I prefer, if you are going to go romantic, that you go Romantic with a capital ‘R’ and go flat-out original Frankenstein, rather than “Somebody’s Trying to Kill Me and I Think It’s My Husband, But It Kinda Turns Me On.”
ESG’s will not see the logic of Dean with the mytharc.
Sam’s behavior is either OOC or explained away. Not looking for Dean is OOC and/or fine because Sam deserves his own life and Dean is a selfish jerk to expect Sam to give up normal and hunt! … add inaccurate reference to Dean as hypocrite because he gave up hunting for normal). They’ll turn around and say he has to be the hero because he didn’t look. I am astonished by the handwaving after Fang and Larp. Dean is the only one who did wrong. Martin was fine, a great hunter and so physically endowed that Sam would be unable to stand up to him (is this before or after he slammed him against the wall, chewed him out and took his car keys?); therefore Sam had no obligation to stop him from cuffing Dean or telling martin he had to go and needed the car. Absolutely okay, great hunter martin might have hurt the sweet gargantuan booboo. He is not at fault because he was right to mistrust Benny because Dean kept him a secret (?!!! No he didn’t because you met Him in BB). And all of Sam’s actions were really to protect Dean from a duplicitous Benny because Sam remembers how he was duped by Ruby ; I guess he’s forgotten that Dean wasn’t duped.
Now this handwaving is illogical as far as I think but the piece de resistance is that no one even mentions that Sam left his brother bleeding, unconscious and chained with 1-2 killer camps in town; and took off to Texas without making sure his brother was okay!!! I did see someone defend Sam by saying Dean can pick a lock. Fair enough but he was bleeding from a head wound and unconscious … never good. Dean would never leave Sam or anyone on his watch like that, bleeding or not. And detoxing Sam is not a valid comparison!
Finally I am agog that ordering a Burger or letting Dean larp is considered Sam putting forth his best effort to make things right. Dean can never apologize enough I guess and Sam can never apologize.
Obviously the need for a human redemption story for Sam escapes them… and since he jumped in a hole and suffered 180 years of the worst torture ever… yeah he has nothing to feel guilty about …??!!
And the storytelling/structural impetus for Dean getting the mytharc, as well as all of the clues regarding mirroring, subtext and Dean’s unique experiences… it simply isn’t seen, or is twisted to jealousy on Sam’s behalf. Sam deserves to close the gates because Dean has cas and Benny and got to spend more time with Charlie ..
My head spins sometimes.
castiel’scat, I enjoyed reading your post about the romance parallels. Let me say that I don’t think the writers, producers, directors, have invested even a fraction of those thoughts to this season; they simply seem to be chugging along with a little bro conflict, and then usual bro love, Dean dress-up, and Sam the wounded superhero hunter, like business as usual. I am expecting this to continue as long as it maintains the cold hard bottomline of ratings, and therefore a steady and hefty paycheck for all.
But, your analysis is very interesting. In a different show, they could be setting up relationships between humans and supernatural beings (not just romance, and I would include Dean and Benny’s friendship here too) and all the different ways it could go, and then show how it will go with Dean, with respect to both Castiel and Benny, at the end of the season. Purgatory seemed almost idyllic, with Dean the human along with Castiel and Benny teaming up to survive and escape, working together, with no internal conflict. But the brotherly human interactions are so devoid of warmth and filled with conflict. An odd contrast this season!
Sadly with the recent episodes and writers having forgotten practically everything else that transpired this season except Sam’s sad love story and how Dean’s horrible text destroyed Sam’s chances at happiness, they have neatly gone back to the Season 1 set-up, except now Sam is forced to hunt with Dean because once again, Dean showed up (though Sam had left him behind or thought him dead, or whatever) and snatched Sam away from his love, who fortunately didn’t burn on the ceiling.
In rewatching “LARP”, I was struck by how many times Dean was downright scary in dealing with the civilians. And even though there’s good reason, Dean’s pretty aggressive interviewing Henry in that director’s clip. It just caught my attention because, while Dean was like that soon after Purgatory, he’d calmed down in dealing with humans after the first few episodes. Maybe I’m reading too much into those scenes but I wonder if we’re seeing Dean’s behavior escalate after he cut ties with Benny. I know Paula had speculated that might happen, which is why it even caught my attention in the first place.
It also reminded me of something Carver said a few months back when he was talking about Dean’s experiences in Purgatory:
“I think one of the last things you might expect going to a place that’s so horrible, that someone might have actually considered it something of a happy experience and I think you have to ask yourself, “Why do you think it’s happening and what is this thing inside himself that he connected to, this primal side of him?” And then … how will he deal with that topside? And I think a lot of that is we use Benny as that thing that is representative of Dean in Purgatory. So yeah, I’ll cut myself off there.”
I’m curious if Carver only meant that symbolically. Because this really could set up some interesting ramifications for Dean, now that his primal side surrogate is out of the picture and Purgatory Dean can come out to play.
Yeah, there are signs that they are in the middle of a story that *could* turn out very well. The problem is that they’ve been at this crossroads in the past and have almost always gone down an ugly turn. So, it’s hard to say.
“Because this really could set up some interesting ramifications for Dean, now that his primal side surrogate is out of the picture and Purgatory Dean can come out to play.”
Dean’s primal side in purgatory came out to play in his single-minded, brutal search for Cas. I wonder if we might see a reappearance of this side if he has to once again find a missing Cas.
Heh..I think I may go primal myself with Cas missing from who knows how many consecutive episodes and with the knowledge of the condition he was in when last seen.
Because this really could set up some interesting ramifications for Dean, now that his primal side surrogate is out of the picture and Purgatory Dean can come out to play.
“Yeah, there are signs that they are in the middle of a story that *could* turn out very well. ”
Are you referring to the interrogation scene earlier in the season when Dean first comes topside and his pulling his gun on the LARPers?
No, I mean more in general–that Sam being so much of an asshat and being called on it by other people who have been hurt besides Dean could be the early parts of a Sam redemption arc. Even Sam’s jealousy of Benny could play into that.
And Dean’s anger toward Sam and increasing independence, on top of his brutal singlemindedness in finding Castiel in Purgatory, could be signs of his becoming something much greater than Sam (or Charlie’s) handmaiden.
I think who ever learns to tap into his soul’s power from Henry this next episode will be the one who goes after Cas and takes on the three tasks. I really hope it’s not Sambutt but all of a sudden everything is coming up Sam. I will be so disappointed if Carver does that. And to be honest, I think Kripke is still running the show. That switch to ‘all Sam’ again smells just like him. Maybe he saw what Carver was doing and stop it. I can’t see him wanting his alter-ego to be shown at fault for anything.
My latest review is up.
Benny is coming back, Amelia….maybe. And the Purgatory flashbacks are done for the season:
http://www.celebuzz.com/2013-01-29/supernatural-boss-felicia-day-ty-olsson-and-maybe-liane-balaban-returning-on-season-8/