- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/02/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/09/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/16/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/23/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 01/30/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/06/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/13/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/20/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 02/27/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/06/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/13/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/20/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 03/27/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/03/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/10/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/17/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 04/24/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/01/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/08/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/15/13
- Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 05/22/13
This week, we have more news and spoilers about upcoming books, Once Upon a Time, new and returning Syfy shows, and Supernatural. You can access previous spoilers columns here.
Horrific Reads, Bloody Off the Press
By Nathaniel Katz
Centipede Press dominated this week. Their box set of five works by Michael Cisco is now not only available for preorder but is $75 off the regular price of $250. It includes The Divinity Student, The Golem, The Tyrant, The Traitor, and Secret Hours. These will be gorgeous Centipede hardcovers, complete with cover art from Harry O. Morris and a set of new introductions.
Then there is the matter of Charles Beaumont, no doubt best known for his work on The Twilight Zone. Now Centipede is bringing his novels, The Intruder and Run From the Hunter, back into print, along with the short story collection, Mass for Mixed Voices. The books can be ordered as a set from Subterranean Press for now, but will be on the Centipede Press website before too long.
Subterranean Press has some exciting news of its own this week, as well. The trade hardcovers of The Hunter from the Woods are now available to those who missed the pricey limited edition. They also have just announced the new Necroscope novel by Briam Lumley. The Mobius Murders promises to be the finest of weird mysteries and the volume will be illustrated by Bob Eggleton.
Any summary of the week’s horror news, however, simply has to end with Jen Haeger’s Moonlight Medicine: Onset. In it, Haeger makes the stupendously logical and totally, wonderfully absurd connection we have all been waiting for and gives us a werewolf seeking out proper health care in the form of a woman who is both a veterinarian and an MD. Needless to say, trouble follows.
Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina
The big casting news this week is that the show is casting Snow White’s mother!
From TV Guide: “‘The Snow White story usually begins with the stepmother trying to get rid of her,’ says executive producer Edward Kitsis, ‘so we thought it would be fun to explore what Snow’s mom was like. Her name is Eva, and she’s the person who taught Snow White how to be Snow White.’
“Likely airing in late February and early March, the two-part episode, featuring the return of child dynamo Bailee Madison as Young Snow, will naturally take a dark turn. Says exec producer Adam Horowitz: ‘Snow’s mother has a surprising connection to someone we know.’”
This should be interesting. Hopefully, they won’t make her mother into someone bad. And I bet the connection is with Rump!
Executive producers Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz had a post-episode Q&A with TV Line, answering some questions about what will happen now that Cora has Archie and what her plans are. They also had one with TV Guide, where they expanded on the issues that Emma will face now that she has discovered her magic.
TV Line also has a post of a tweet that Michael Raymond-James (Neal Cassidy) made reporting that he will return to the show in episode 14, “Manhattan,” and will appear in the rest of the season. Season three is still up in the air, according to him.
The TCAS were this weekend. TV Tango (as well as other twitters) reported that Giancarlo Esposito (Currently on Revolution) reported that while he would like to return to the show, there are no plans for him to as of right now.
Spoiler TV has up the “Get Hooked” promo on their site.
The cast and crew spoke with several outlets, previewing this past week’s episode “The Cricket Game.” Here is the Huffington Post article. Kitsis and Horowitz also give some hints about how the Charming-Snow clan are going to be dealing with their new family bonds, and what will be upcoming for Rump and for Rump/Belle.
Here is TV Guide‘s article. Morrison, Goodwin and Parrilla hint at some of the things their characters will be dealing with, as well as discussing how popular the outdoor setting has become for visitors to come and watch them film.
Colin O’Donoghue did an interview with TV Line where he gave a few tidbits about what is coming up for Hook.
A cast member from Britain’s Downton Abbey will be making an appearance on the show. Lesley Nicol, who plays the cook Mrs. Patmore on the period drama, has been cast in a guest role. No info yet on who that role will be, though.
Huffington Post has up a video celebrating the love stories of the show.
Ausiello at TV Line dropped a few spoilers last week for the show:
“Question: The lack of Once Upon a Time news regarding August W. Booth/Pinocchio and his current state/possible reunion with his dad is getting on my nerves. Please tell me you have a scoop about him? -Angelique”
“Ausiello: The best answer series cocreator Eddy Kitsis will part with, regarding August being seen again this season, is: ‘Perhaps.’ He goes on to add, ‘We are hoping to have him back. August is an important part of the fabric of the story, and it’s a story that we are continuing to tell.’ In the meantime, though, Kitsis confirms that ‘you will get the answer’ to what it was that August showed Neal Cassidy to convince him of Emma’s fantastical backstory.”
“Question: I have a question about Once Upon a Time: Are there any chances to get the Huntsman/Jamie Dornan back? I miss him so much!!!”
“Ausiello: As has often been the series creators’ refrain, you will maybe someday see Dornan again in a flashback, but never in Storybrooke. ‘[Sheriff] Graham is dead,’ asserts Kitsis, ‘and if we brought him back, everyone would say we were messing with continuity. We don’t want to do that.’ Kitsis notes that last season revealed one love of Emma’s life – son Henry – while this cycle introduced us to another, Neal Cassidy, who likely will resurface during February sweeps. As for a certain pushy pirate? ‘Hook is obviously eye-candy,’ Kitsis allows. ‘I don’t know if Emma would stare at him and think he’d be a great father to Henry, but he might be fun in Vegas!’”
And he had another one for this week!
“Question: Looking for a Once Upon A Time scoop. - Sara”
“Ausiello: Your search is over. The ABC hit is casting the 20-year-old version of Regina’s father as well as his fortysomething father, presumably to take part in the same flashback that features Rose McGowan as Young Cora.”
Spoiler TV has a bit more on that casting scoop. “For episode 2.16, the guest role of ‘King Xavier’ is being cast. He’s 45, has a mean sense of humor, and worries about being able to maintain his extravagant lifestyle since gold has become more scarce in his kingdom. Also being cast is the co-star role of a 20-something ‘Prince Henry’ (Regina’s father as a young man), whose marriage could change King Xavier’s fortunes.”
I don’t remember hearing that Regina’s father was a Prince. Then why was her mom so power crazy, if she was the wife of a prince?
TV Line also has up a sneak peak for “The Outsider,” featuring Rump and Belle, and Granny and the Dwarves. Seems like Hook has made a move on Belle, and the poor Dwarves are homesick!
Spoiler TV has up some promotional photos for “The Outsider” at their site.
And finally, the final ratings are out for this new year’s first episode. The show received a 3.1/8 with 9.10 million viewers. That’s actually the same demo and viewership that they had for their last new episode!
Syfy Spoilerpalooza
By Heather S. Vina
For those fans of the Syfy shows, several of them are returning this month. Syfy has announced their “POWERFUL MONDAYS” programming, which consists of new (to the U.S.) series Continuum at 8pm, with returning series Being Human at 9pm and Lost Girl at 10pm.
Continuum is a new show that aired over the summer in Canada, starring Rachel Nichols (Criminal Minds, G.I. Joe) and Victor Webster (Castle, Mutant X).
From the press release: “Kiera Cameron, a cop from the future who finds herself trapped in the present day. When a group of fanatical terrorists escapes their planned execution in 2077 by vaulting back in time to 2012, they inadvertently sweep along Kiera, a dedicated City Protective Services officer. With unexpected assistance from teen tech genius Alec Sadler, Kiera infiltrates the local police department and forms an uneasy alliance with her new partner, detective Carlos Fonnegra. Though desperate to get back to her husband and son, Kiera concentrates on bringing down the terrorists before they change the course of history.”
I tried it over the summer, and I enjoyed it. Nothing stellar, but it was an entertaining show and the mystery was interesting enough. The show has been renewed for a second season, but, right now, there is no ETA on when it will film or air.
Being Human is returning for it’s third season, only, without former co-showrunner Jeremy Carver, who has taken over showrunning duties on Supernatural. There shouldn’t be too many noticeable changes, though, since Anna Fricke (Carver’s wife and his co-showrunner in the first two seasons) is remaining on as showrunner.
From the press release: “The new season of Being Human picks up 15 months after the events of last season’s riveting finale which ended with Aidan buried alive as punishment from vampire leader Mother, Sally lost in a state of limbo, and Josh’s plot to kill Ray, his werewolf “maker,” endangering Nora instead. Season 3 features new and returning guest stars including Mark Pellegrino, Amy Aquino, Xander Berkeley, Bobby Campo and Kyle Schmid.”
For fans of the show, Spoiler TV has up a transcript of a conference call with Sam Witwer and Anna Fricke, with some spoilers for the first couple of episodes.
Lost Girl is also returning for its third season. From the press release: “The victory in the final battle of Season 2 has created new alliances for Bo (series star Anna Silk) along with reinvigorating old enemies, like ‘The Morrigan,’ played by Emmanuelle Vaugier (Two and a Half Men, Human Target), whom Bo crossed in an attempt to bring peace to the Faedom. Now Bo, who until now has refused to pick a side, will be forced to make a deadly decision. Among the guest stars will be Linda Hamilton (Terminator) and joining the Lost Girl cast this season is Rachel Skarsten (The Vow, Flashpoint) in a recurring role as ‘Tamsin,’ a thrill-seeking, sexy new Fae who ruffles many feathers. Returning for season three are Kris Holden-Ried (The Tudors, Underworld 4) as ‘Dyson’; Ksenia Solo (Life Unexpected, Black Swan) as ‘Kenzi’; Zoie Palmer (The Guard, Instant Star) as ‘Lauren’; Rick Howland (Billable Hours, Murdoch Mysteries) as ‘Trick’ and K.C. Collins (Owning Mahowny, Doomstown) as ‘Hale.’”
Geek News at the MTV site has up a couple of promotional videos from Syfy for the returning and new shows!
Supernatural (Wednesday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles
There are no new episodes until next week, when the show returns with 8.10, “Torn and Frayed.” Tonight, Jensen Ackles’ directed episode of the season, “Heartache,” repeats. This has turned out to be fortuitous, since, not only were Ackles and Jared Padalecki invited to present at The People’s Choice Awards, but Ackles and his wife, Daneel Harris Ackles, also have announced that they are expecting their first child.
We do not normally report on personal news or contests, but The People’s Choice Awards are a big deal (as evidenced by the kerfuffle over Padalecki and Ackles not being invited last season, despite the show winning two major awards) and Ackles’ news is likely to affect the filming of season nine to some extent.
The PCAs will be on at the same time as tonight’s repeat of the show, so you saltgunners are going to have to make a choice which you watch. Or use that DVD recorder.
How Ackles’ news might affect season nine is a good question. One thing we’ve seen is that both leads have been given separate storylines this season, which has entailed their having many scenes separated from each other. This reduces their respective screentime without reducing the overall amount of Sam and Dean. So, we could be seeing much more of that.
Another easy way to take the pressure off Ackles (if he wishes) is for him not to direct an episode in season nine. I’m not sure if Ackles would actually do this, since directing appears to be part of his contract and he has expressed a lot of enthusiasm about it, but it would give him more time during the hiatus to be with his new baby.
A third obvious way to give them both time off is to have episodes about other characters. This method, though, has an ugly history on television and can really turn an audience off. You’ve got the infamous Coy and Vance season from Dukes of Hazzard, the largely Mulder-free (and Scully-lite) eighth and ninth seasons of The X-Files and the fun-less romps with sidekicks in the latter seasons of Moonlighting. And the track record of that this season (Yeah, I’m thinking of “Bitten”) is spotty.
That said, “Blood Brothers” showed that it is possible to have an episode focused on a guest character without making the brothers sidekicks in their own show (the biggest problem with this trope). We could see an episode with scenes from the 1940s of Eliot Ness and Ezra working on a case that has echoes in the present, for example, or more Ghostfacers. This may be why we’re seeing so many guest characters introduced, or reintroduced, this season. They’re trying to see who works and who doesn’t.
The official synopsis for 8.11, “LARP and the Real Girl,” is up:
“FELICIA DAY RETURNS! – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) investigate the mysterious deaths of two LARPers (Live Action Role Playing) who were playing a game entitled ‘Moondoor.’ The guys are thrilled to discover the Queen of Moondoor is none other than Charlie (guest star Felicia Day). The three learn that a fairy (guest star Tiffany Dupont) has been commandeered to harm people and the only way to stop her is to find her master. Jeannot Szwarc directed the episode written by Robbie Thompson.”
Dupont has been a very busy guest star, lately, and appears to have her own Twitter account. Szwarc’s last directed episode on the show was “Adventures in Babysitting.” And, of course, we’re all hoping Robbie Thompson will redeem himself after “Bitten” and that this will be more like “The Mentalists.”
I am very, very curious about the fairy angle (though I seriously doubt the brothers will be “thrilled” to run into Charlie again). A major shibboleth for upholding canon in this one will be if Dean can still see fairies – and if it will be important to the story. Both things should be true in canon. This could also lead to more fun with the idea of perception, since nobody else should be able to see fairies unless the fairy is both powerful and actually interested in being seen. Sam will probably think Dean is bonkers, at first.
The name “Moondoor” (Yeah, “Mordor,” we get it, show) may also have a triple meaning of referencing the portal to Fairie.
This week’s issue of TV Guide has an article out about the upcoming three episodes. Most of the 8.10 stuff is reiteration, but there’s a photo from 8.11 (including Jensen Ackles in what looks like vaguely-English-Civil-War-by-way-of-Kevin-Costner’s-version-of-Robin-Hood garb, Jared Padalecki in FBI mufti, Felicia Day in fantasy sword-and-sorcery female fighter gear, and some chick in a wedding dress from the 1950s. None of this costuming is medieval, show. Just sayin’). The photo of Jensen Ackles confirms an Ausiello tease that the brothers would end up in SCA costumes.
Just a warning that we medievalists are under a geas to snark up, down and sideways about any medievalesque storytelling we come across. Before you can get your PhD in Medieval History, you have to sign a contract in blood. So, expect the review of 8.11 to be Snark City.
Further apropos to the article, it seems that Henry Jones Jr. – sorry, Henry Winchester – the brothers’ grandfather – wasn’t a mechanic, after all, as John claimed. Ya don’t say. I’ll confess to being intrigued by this character. On the flip side, I don’t know when Charlie became a “fan fave” on the show, but whatever. Speaking of recurring writer favorites, D.J. Qualls is in a new FX series, Legit, which may explain his having only been in one episode this season, despite being established as NuBobby.
We have a new episode title out, this one for 8.18. It’s “The Apple Dumpling Gang.” No, I’m not kidding.
There are some character spoilers out from 8.16, “Remember the Titans.” It seems that Prometheus and Zeus will appear (so, literal Greek mythology going on here), and that Prometheus will seek help from the brothers. A pagan god as the PiP? That could be interesting. The episode will be written by Dan Loflin and directed by Steve Boyum.
Ty Olsson is starring in a new sci-fi TV movie/series called “Borealis,” which is supposed to air this Friday at 9pm EST/6pm PST on the Space Channel in Canada. He’s been promoting it on his Twitter for the past month. There’s an article out about it on Space here, though the video is no longer available, and some photos here. This article has some more info about the characters and the plot. The story is about the Canadian Arctic a few decades in the future, when Global Warming has melted all the ice (Ha. I’ve written a series about the opposite scenario, since the eventual end result of Global Warming is supposed to be an ice age around 2050, right about when we run out of oil).
Check it out if you get a chance.
Ratings for last week’s repeat of “What’s Up, Tiger Mommy?” again tied for first place with Arrow and The Vampire Diaries in the demo. The show was also second in audience after Arrow, with a 0.4/1 and 1.31 million in audience, up ten thousand from last week. Savor it while you can. I’m sure The Vampire Diaries (which doesn’t repeat very well) will gallop right back to first place once it returns with new episodes.
We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm and Supernatural.
If you like these spoilers, please help continue our site by making a donation, buying one of our fiction issues, or buying one of our books: Fraterfamilias, Historical Lovecraft, Future Lovecraft, and our Gothic horror anthology, Candle in the Attic Window. You can also buy Paula’s non-fiction book on medieval Spanish history, Templar Convivencia.








Thanks for the update.
I think the spoilers for episode 16 sound kind of interesting, so hopefully they don’t mess up these Gods.
I kind of like the recurring theme that they lost power because they’re not worshipped anymore. It’s an interesting twist that this time its the God who is looking for help rather than trying to kill Sam and Dean. I guess they figure thats pointless since those who try end up dying.
As for the fairy episodes, I thought Sam could see them, because he did have the confrontation with the one at the end of the episode where he spills the salt (or it might have been sugar)
Or I could be misremembering everything because I’ve only ever watched the episode once.
Accurate or not, the thought of Jensen dressed like a knight is a pretty visual. Too bad Jared’s standing in the way so that we don’t get a better view. Hopefully there will be some promo pick in the near future.
I wish they’d let Robbie Thompson write a regular episode instead of a guest star featured one. I know it makes sense because he wrote the Charlie ep last year, but he also wrote Slash Fiction and Time after Time. Two pretty good episodes. Since he wrote the time travel ep last year, I wish he was writing this one.
I really liked the Mentalists. It was one of the few episode from last season I rewatch. It wasn’t written by Thompson. It was written by the Ben Blacker and Ben Acker. I remember this because I was so disappointed it was their only episode. I would have really liked to see what they could have done with a 2nd episode.
Hopefully we will get some promo pics for episode 10 soon. I’ve read rumors (no source so take with grain of salt) that ep 10 was supposed to be the actual episode the show ended on for the winter hiatus.
Unfortunately though it looks like the last Cas, Benny episode for a bit, at least until ep 17. Which I kind of hope isn’t about either Cas or Benny since the title of the ep is Goodbye Stranger. Although I know you can’t really tell anything from an episode title.
Sam could see the leprechaun because the creature wanted him to. Prometheus is known to he a friend of mankind and was punished fir eternal torture of having an eagle Peck at tour liver….). In that vein I am nit surprised that he would side with and seek out humans. In fact he might provide some critical Intel since his transgressions. Involved teaching humanity secret information, like how to make fire. Or so my feeble memory recalls. If you’ve ever heard the phrase Prometheus bound…. reference to his torture.
The mentalists was a standout last season – good overall and great for Dean!
I knew the guys had asked for more time off this season, and with Jared’s new arrival and Jensen’s on the way, it makes total sense. As a human I understand completely, and I’m as happy for them as I can be. I actually let out a loony, little squeal when I read about Jensen and his wife expecting. As a fan, I’m whiny and don’t know what to do with my hands. /deep breaths.
Still, I think that if the boys need more time off, causing SPN to focus on other characters, I think they should focus more on Castiel. He’s kind of like family now. I don’t feel “cheated” when he’s the central character in the story. He has a huge following. I know there is a faction of “haters” out there on the net, but I think they are much louder than their actual numbers would suggest. I’d definitely rather have a Castiel-centric storyline than have a bunch of disjointed one-offs with Charlie or Garth, or god forbid even some complete unknowns as the leads. One of my biggest problems with “Bitten” was that it put the focus on people I had never met, didn’t care about, and knew I would never see again.
A few comments on your spoilers:
I’m pleased that People magazine ran the brief article that Jensen and Danneel were expecting. That’s a major publication, so it’s good he gets a mention.
I hope that S9 goes with the separate storylines and not the recurring characters since, at this time, they are using the really weak ones that I don’t care for; Garth, Charlie specifically, and God knows who else they’ll drag back. I would have preferred new…and interesting…strong characters like Benny, had been developed, if that’s the route they’re exploring. Qualls has a new series, but they did leave it in such a place that he could come back if his new series doesn’t play well.
And even though the thought of a Charlie episode makes me shudder, Dean does look good in his little medieval outfit. That man does do justice to clothing (remembering the lederhosen in Monster Movie; oh, and the 1940s attire)….yum).
Thanks, Paula.
Thanks Paula! Grandpa Winchester interests me too. I’ve seen complaints that his not being a mechanic is a heinous retcon. Please. We had no idea that mary came from a hunting dynasty until we were shown, and krissy’s dad was a “salesman ” . John either didn’t talk about it and used the cover story, or didn’t remember and bought the cover story. If john was fully aware it adds nuance to his behavior after Mary’s death, since he would have thought it was his fault. So this really could work big time.
More thoughts on why Dean would be the brother that learns something -
Sam’s destiny is linked to the Campbells through Mary’s deal, and season 6. Dean is linked to the Winchesters because both he and john were of the Michael vessel bloodline. Just saying…
Is the apple dumpling gang, the cowgirl /twins episode?
There is an emphasis on pagan gods this season. That will be the third episode that we know of. Aren’t fairy considered gods by some or am I confused? Anyhow, I know all about Prometheus sharing secrets like fire with man; I think I read somewhere that Prometheus created man in some myths. Could Prometheus be God’s alter-ego?
Anyhow, we may be seeing the power struggle that you foretold in Godstiel’s aftermath, except that it is not the souls in heaven taking care of the vacuum.
Them not remembering John’s dad was a mechanic is just an employee not checking out the SPN bible. Not the fist time they have messed up. And whatever this news is, I’m wondering how it will fit in with what has already been told in season’s past. I can see another huge plot hole in the making.
And Sam is also from the Winchester bloodlines so, that really doesn’t just belong to Dean, Neither does the Campbell line just belong to Sam.
As for who learns what, remember that Grand Pa Winchester does not no that John married and had kids. Let alone who they are. I suspect the info is for neither brother specifically but something about why the boys were destined to be hunters. So a start of Sam realizing who he is and where he belongs. That would make the most sense right now.
Brothers can have the same parents but not the same genes. Azazel sniffed mary and liked her, and Sam was fed the demon blooId, not dean. Those Campbell’s seemed far more like Sam, soul or not,; ergo he has more Campbell in him than Dean, even though Dean looks like mary who herself looked more like her mom than dad. There’s a genetic reason why DEAN is the OTV for michaell and was not suitable for Luci; likewise Sam was fed the blood. Nick had some of the right genes but wasn’t great. Adam also had some of the right genes for Michael to use, even if he was only Dean’s half brother.
there is no reason to think they just forgot in Carver’s reign. Being a hunter or demonologist is usually not something to brag about with outsiders in the supernaturalverse.
Hate to pull science on you here, but each child had half the genes of each parent. Genetically speaking both boys have the same claim to both families. And we don’t know what would happen if Dean drank demon blood. He was never dumb enough to do it.
And I don’t think Sam is more like the Campbells at all. They were hunters, saving people, hunting things. Sam doesn’t want any part of that life and deliberately let people he knew about die cause he wanted a normal life. I think the whole Campbell family would turn over in their graves if they knew that.
Yes of course everyone gets half their genes from each parent; however si lings don’t get the same halves unless they are identical twins. I am making the assumption that specific genes are tied to vessels, otherwise cherubic mating orders would be moot. Simply put, john and Dean (and Adam) could share genes that others lack.
Sam is very Luke the season 6 Campbell’s in temperment, especially hubris and insecurity.
Sam was never described as a born hunter, only DEAN. My guess is Dean also inherited a hunter gene which g maybe genetic as well (like on Grimm ). From what we have been shown, john was also a cutie three above the rest of the pack. Since Michael was effectively heaven’s hunter, this is no surprise.
Aarghh. Siblings
Cut or three (not cutie three)
Oops forgot to say. Dean was for Michael cause Dean was a protag and the hero of the story. Sam was best for Lucifer cause Sam portrayed more of the negativity and evilness the devil likes. All his narcissistic traits. For me that’s why they were chosen as they were.
Outside the story, yeah the writers were thinking along those lines. Inside the story not so much. A six month old baby isn’t evil. There should be a difference genetically that made Dean unacceptable to Azazel and Sam a chosen one. Maybe we’ll. Find out Michael feed john and Dean his blood, and grandpa Winchester killed his second child to prevent the apocalypse.
I do believe Dean will learn something about himself. Aside from the excellent points that paula has repeatedly mentioned about Dean being tied to the supernatural… I keep coming back to the premiere which laid it all out. Dean enters like a MOTW. Deliberate callbacks to the premiere except the brothers are reversed, and Sam (the human brother ) surprises Dean (the supernatural ).
Hmmmm…I don’t know how much Sam surprised Dean. I think Dean scoped out Sam and knew all about Amelia before he went to the cabin.
As for Azazel, I think the deal was he would return in 10yrs. At that time the only infant was Sam as Dean was 4 by then. So Azazel had to taint Sam. For me it doesn’t mean if he had tainted Dean the same reaction wouldn’t occur. Same for Grimm. Only one son was born. If he has siblings they could be affected as well.
I don’t know what we will find out about John. I just hope it’s positive. I really was never into calling John a dead-beat father.
Well, I thought John was a textbook abusive SOB, so I’d just as soon they focus on Henry and the brothers. The brothers are getting a little old for being so daddy-obsessive.
As for Azazel, first of all, most of the canon we are quoting here was started by the episode, “In the Beginning,” which was written by Jeremy Carver. I doubt he’s going to forget his own canon. And the stuff about John being from a family of mechanics (also from the same episode) can easily be explained by John being raised by someone else after Henry disappeared. It’s not a given that Henry will be killed, let alone go back to 1958, in this episode and he could well become a recurring character.
Second, Azazel was being coached by Lucifer, who should have known who his vessel would be (since he was aware of the entire Apocalypse destiny future, just like Michael). Therefore, the ten years thing was only a way of determining which was the right child. Azazel found the special child by creating a bunch of psychic children, but the child wasn’t special because of what he did. For all we know, we may find out that Henry made a deal with Michael similar to Mary’s deal with Azazel. This would explain why Michael was already so proprietorial about Dean even when Dean was in the womb. And it might explain why Henry is thrown forward from 1958 (according to early spoilers), 20 years before Dean’s conception.
Third, Carver loves his parallels, as has been made obvious. “In the Beginning” was all about Sam’s special destiny, as transmitted via the Campbells. If this is truly a “companion piece” to “In the Beginning,” as early spoilers claimed, then this episode should be about Dean’s special destiny, as transmitted via the Winchesters.
I can’t agree that Lucifer knew who his vessel would be. If he did why did Azazel treat so many kids. If Sam was the one, then he should have been the only one tainted.
And I don’t think that the 10yrs was for any special reason. Again if they had know it was Sam they woulndn’t have picked so many families. And then there was the battle between all of the kids to determine the final vessel. No reason for that either if Sam was the one.
I think EK may have been influenced by ‘Dune’ but he really didn’t get that breeding program across well
And I didn’t know this episode was to be a companion piece to Carver’s other episode. Did he say that or is it spec out there. Have to say that worries me. I really don’t want them to give Sam an out again but coming up with some special ‘issue’ from John’s side now. Sam is supposed to realize that his niche in life is hunting. Giving either boy any special trait is not a good way to bring them together. Making them more different from each other would not seem to be the way to go.
True thus is only the 12th episode but Carver did say he was not going to leave everything to the last few episodes this year, so I would expect some change in Sam soon. Some info about Dad being born to hunt would go a long way toward turning Sam around.
As for Henry, we know for a fact he can’t go back to 1958 cause that would change the timeline. John was raised without dad and that has to remain. So he either has to die or remain and I didn’t read where the character was recurring. So I’m guessing he drops a bomb about John and hunters and then dies.
Of course Lucifer knew. He said so. Gabriel said so. Michael said so. Gabriel put it best in “Changing Channels”: “Why do you think I’ve always taken such an interest in you? Because from the moment Dad flipped on the lights around here, we knew it was all gonna end with you. Always.”
Lucifer in “The End” tells Dean that he has foreseen their confrontation in the garden and that it will always end that way. All of the archangels make statements that they knew who the vessels would be. Azazel doesn’t know, but Lucifer certainly does and the plan he lays out for Azazel is fully in keeping with how he has foreseen that things need to go. That canon was banged home repeatedly all through season five.
As for why Azazel needed ten years, we don’t know, but it may have been a combination of doubling the five years of a deal with (uselessly) trying to throw the angels and any humans off the scent. Why wait 22 years to “activate” them, for that matter?
Um, we don’t know that Henry can’t go back and we don’t know that John was raised without a father, either. That is pure speculation. The *only* thing we know about John’s family is that he is a “mechanic from a family of mechanics.” We know nothing about Henry dying in the episode, either, because recurring characters are frequently introduced without any mention of their being cast for recurring. And the brothers have no family left, so this is the perfect opportunity to reintroduce some.
The bit about it being a companion piece is speculation, which you can find here: http://www.buddytv.com/articles/supernatural/supernatural-casts-a-new-winch-48590.aspx. But it does make sense.
There is absolutely nothing whatsoever in the upcoming spoilers to indicate that the second half of the season will end up being All About Sam. There is no reason to believe that Henry Winchester will obsess over Sam the way Sam was obsessed over in “In the Beginning.” Quite the opposite. If there is paralleling here, then Henry’s secrets have to pertain to Dean not Sam. Sam’s already had his big family storyline. Carver should know that–he gave it to him back in season four.
Ha! I remember all the discussion about stuff they wrote in s5 not jiving with the earlier story line. I just chalked it up to EK scrambling to figure out what he was going to do for two more years. He never did get them to jive.
Ok so I thought it was known that John was not with his biological father. I was thinking, like you, that he wasn’t cause he was raised by either a stepdad or was adopted and that father was a mechanic. If Henry goes back and raises John that there must be another reason for John to claim he was from a family of mechanics. Interesting!
And I hope you are right about Sam not being the focal point of the second half of the series. I just seems to me he would give both leads equal time in the series. I have no problem with seeingots more of Dean/Benny/Cass arcs.
A slight “Waaa!” to Ty having another project. I want him back on SPN! But a big “Yeah!” to DJ having another project. I have no problem with Garth never appearing again.
With regard to JA getting time more time off – personally, I hope he does direct next season. It’s great to see his enthusiasm and how much better he gets with each episode. I’d also rather see the guys split up. I quite like the idea of Sam becoming Bobby v2, with occassional hunts thrown in. Let Dean hunt with Benny, Castiel, some other new Hunter – I don’t care. Carver needs to repopulate the series, but with interesting characters. That will also take some of the weight off the guys. But TPTB won’t listen to me, so whatever.
Actually that project of Ty’s was filmed a while ago and the porducers where waiting for someone to buy it. And it’s a movie not a series of any kind. Glad they finally got it off the ground. According to Ty, it’s one of his favorite roles!
As for DJ, I suspect he will be back before long. I haven’t looked into the project, but most of those are short seasons, like 10-12 episodes. he will be available again.
And I do like the character. Not a Bobby and I don’t accept that he is at all, but he does seem to have his head on straight and his heart in the right place. And really anyone would seem like a goof compared to the boys!
Thanks for the round up, Paula. As for JA in season 9, I doubt he will miss much. Really JP didn’t and both have contracts to adhere too. Just like us, they have a job and unlike us, they are both capable of using nannies if they wish, so I wouldn’t expect JA to be too sparse next year.
Also I would very much expect him to direct again. At most directing adds an additional week and it’s in his best interest to do it. He likes it and has made some hints that he’d like to do more after SPN ends. So all the experience and exposed he can get, the more he would be foolish not too. And again, he does have contract obligations. While all of us would like to be independently wealthy, it just doesn’t work that way.:-)
I do wonder if the birth will mess up the season’s finally or change it in any way. It didn’t for JP and again, they do have contractual obligations, but I was really hoping this year would be Dean’s year so, after waiting all this time for him to have one, I really would be disappointed if the baby’s birth changed that. Would I understand, sure, but I’d still be disappointed.
As for the rest of the year, really hope we don’t see any more Samelia BUT they will give equal time to Sam this year, so I HOPE most of the time is his realizing he needs to drop her and get on with apologizing and redeeming himself to Dean. He has a large climb out from that hole he dug for himself and I hope Dean doesn’t make it easy for him!
Here’s the new promo for “Tom and Frayed”. Kevin’s back!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtSeVu0dbek&feature=em-uploademail
@Cassieo
Ty’s new movie is what’s called a “back-door pilot”. That means if it’s well received, they’ll build a show around it. And while I’d love to see Ty get the recognition he justly deserves, I’d rather have him on our show. Also, I gotta say, that lady in the picture with him? Couldn’t they dress her better? Aren’t they supposed to be in the Artic Circle somewhere, with a minimum of oil? If so, I don’t think I’d be running around in off-the-shoulder shirts. Just sayin’.
Also, I thought Mrs Tran had given Sam a notebook with the formula for demon bombs in it? Or am I mis-remembering? It’s not like Sam took it (or his stuff) with him when he took off in Citizen Fang.
I don’t remember a notebook but Sam is not here for part of the episode cause it was said he has to think about him and Amelia. It’s not for long cause it was also stated that Cass gets involved and says the boys need to patch things up cause he needs them both. Yeah….that is totally for the Sam-fans.
As for the “back-door pilot”, a series is another project that needs to be sold first and then set up with all the financial considerations, production cost, actors locations scripts and so forth. Nothing would be in the works for at least a year if it was sold at all. It’s too bad it’s only being shown in Canada. I think the US market is more lucative. Anyway, I think we will see a lot more of Ty yet.
Good catch! She did hand over the notebook and he made a bomb with it. Sheesh- shows how out of the game Sam is. Dean may be unaware of the notebook since he was reminiscing about purgatory with castiel.
“Another easy way to take the pressure off Ackles (if he wishes) is for him not to direct an episode in season nine.”
I think so too. Jensen has directed a few, he has experience with the SPN crew already, and if he really wants to, he can direct the one that they film after the winter hiatus. But his baby will be very new by mid-summer, and a new baby is a new baby only once, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Jensen is going to start canceling cons and not completely needed work like directing yet another SPN episode, to spend more time with the new baby.
The new baby will probably mean Jensen will want more time off. I wonder if this will mean the Winchesters will be separated even more next season. Carver should start investing in building up more recurring characters, especially if Ty O. may not become available. I am also curious how they are going to manage Dean’s and Sam’s onscreen time in the episodes 8.11 – 8.16 or so.
The new clip for 8.10 shows that Dean and Sam are separated at least for part of the episode, and Dean visiting Kevin with Cas. I’m happy they are exploring the Dean hunting with Cas idea a little more this episode.
YEA!!! We won the Sci-Fi/Fantasy award. Love how they slipped it in with what 1-2 sentences and just before they presented too. . At least we got a mention this time. Hope we win the other two too. Happy Dance!!!
Am rewatching heartache. Sam has no chemistry with anyone on the show. Its painful. The promo for 10 finally rang a bell in my noggin. I get a distinct vibe that naomi is in castiel ‘s head.
The official synopsis for 8.12, “As Time Goes By,” is up.
SAM AND DEAN MEET THEIR GRANDFATHER — Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) are stunned when a man who claims to be Henry Winchester (guest star Gil McKinney), their grandfather, suddenly appears in their hotel room demanding to know where he can find John Winchester. Henry has time-traveled to stop a demon named Abbadon (guest star Alaina Huffman) and was looking for John’s help. Through Henry, Sam and Dean learn more about their father and the Winchester blood line. Serge Laouceur directed the episode written by Adam Glass (#812)
Of all the writers, it just had to be Glass…..sigh…..
Yeah, that was my first thought, too. Glass, huh? Expect jerky pacing, clumsy plotting, and really questionable sexual situations.
I still have hopes for Henry, though.
Yep…that was my first reaction too. Now my expectations sink and more plot holes loom large. I just hope what ever it is they learn about John came from Carver.
Glass. Really? Glass? Ugh. I no longer really have any hopes about this episode with him writing it. I wonder how many epic verbal beatdowns Henry will give Dean over being a horrible, very bad brother to Sam we can count on for this episode? *rolls eyes*
I really can’t believe they are giving a Winchester family and mytharc heavy episode like this to Glass, of all people. A man who can’t seem to reign in his bias no matter what.
Very disappointing.
Sad to say, Jensen lost the Best TV Drama Actor award, but glad to say the fandom did win the Favorite TV Fan Following. So two out of three aren’t bad, just sad we couldn’t pull it out for Jensen. And sorry, but he’s my favorite.
That’s what I just said on IMDB, too.
Well, I like Nathan Fillion and Castle is on the bubble this season. Jensen Ackles will have another day, but Fillion might not get one for Castle. And did I mention that I also like Nathan Fillion?
I just can’t get too upset about it. Considering the show won its other two awards, it was probably splitting the votes between Ackles and Jared Padalecki that did it, but Fillion is also pretty popular from Firefly. I think he deserved to win, certainly more than the Vampire Diaries guys (though I think Dobrev’s a good actress).
Oh I love Nathan Fillion. I watch Castle faithfully and didn’t know it was on the bubble. That’s too bad. And I loved him in Firefly. One of my favorite sci-fi shows.
I know certain fan sites were voting equal number for both at numbers of 45,000 each cause they didn’t want to upset any of their fans. But that has never worked before. Jensen routinely wins over all the others that were in that category. Even e!Online commented they felt he would walk away with it.
But I also heard, Nathan was VERY active on his twitter account pulling for himself. Seems he was voting a lot and each of his votes would get 5000 RT. Hehehe. Good for him! Also loved that he mentioned his brother voted for Jensen. Even he knew Jensen was his only competition.
I think all know it was a battle between Jensen and Nathan. And with Jared in the vote and Nathan pulling for himself. Really gave him the edge. See good reason JA should get Twitter.
Well like you say, there is always next year.
LOL! That’s hilarious! Well, he did win, so I guess that tactic worked.
The thing is that they are both very popular and have strong fandoms, so I don’t think it’s any slur on Ackles that he lost out to Fillion.
Hmmm… interesting observations Overall Paula. Very intriguing info about in the beginning. I made a Dean connection because of my terminal case if deangoggles, and some logical spinning by thinking on fairies and firstborns, strong cues in the premiere, and of course the reoccurring hints that Dean has the supernatural mojo this time around. If early spoilers referenced that other episode …. whoa!
Maybe grandpa makes a deal with michael to silver his abaddon situation, or another demon fraught incident.
This and castiel … a very important episode. I wish Carver wrote it. I guess he’s saving himself for the tail end
I think the days if samadoration are over. Amelia, daddy,kevin and Dean have all called him out on his unheroic and irresponsible behavior. Kevin is now behaving like Sam, and boy does he suck. Garth is more heroic than Sam. Only a lunatic would (and did) follow him. Sam just needs to grow up and realize life isn’t always fair. Giving him another heroic backstory won’t solve any problems with the character. I think something horrible will happen that will be his fault and he can’t rationalize blaming Dean or anyone but himself for the mess. This. Is the only thing that makes sense to me, unless naomi rewards Dean by giving Sam a new personality.
I found the sneak peek promising in that both Dean and Castiel did show empathy toward Kevin’s exhaustion, but didn’t go so far as to put up with his epic whining (and the bit where Castiel subtly reminded Kevin that he was an angel and could therefore easily find all the hard-to-get ingredients to the demon bomb was a hoot).
I’m not entirely sure why Kevin is now having so much trouble reading the tablet. Either prophets can read the tablets or they can’t. It doesn’t seem to be a case of learning and practice.
I am quite suspicious of Kevin at this point. There was something about his attitude… but he too must realize life ain’t fair and man up.
I thought Dean was beaming (without Sam). He And cas seem synpatico and in step.
I thought Dean was very happy in that promo and his concern for Kevin was touching. As was Cas’. I don’t know what is wrong with Kevin but he definitely seems out of character from the premier. Then he seems vary capable of handling himself and now he has slipped into a whiney Sam role. Don’t know what makes you suspicious of him though. I don’t think he would ever leave the boys again or betray them to Crowley. But I was hoping he would be stronger that they have written him recently. Maybe that’s just the different writers concepts.
Anybody see the new official photos for 8.10? ‘Scuse me whilst I roll my eyes at the article author’s suggestion that the only reason for the brothers’ rift was Mean Dean sending Puir Sammy a misleading text:
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/01/supernatural-spoilers-sam-and-dean-reunite-with-castiel-for-a-showdown-with-crowley.html
Also, the new PCAs promo has new spoilery clips up from 8.11:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVpg3tVBcuY
She’s amazing isn’t she? She has received numerous complaint comments on her one sidedness and she doesn’t ever get the message. People like her really keep the stress in the fandom. You wonder how she can be so blind. And yet she keeps getting exclusives, episodes to preview and she always slants them incorrectly. I don’t get why she is allowed to do that.
And yes I saw the 8.11 scenes in the promo. Surprised they released them.
There’s no mystery to it. Controversy breeds hits.
Hmm…..posted a comment yesterday that isn’t here. Hope I didn’t do it wrong.
Anyway, I was looking closer at those stills and it seems Sam is very angry in some. There is one where Sam looks very angry while Dean is walking away. Wonder if Dean has told Sam what he thinks of Sam’s actions re: Benny and Martin.
I moderated it because it crossed the line. Please refrain from attacking bloggers on other sites.
I see. Too bad you felt that way. But good thing I asked otherwise I might have thought it was a technical error and repost it.
And I’d still have moderated it because it violated our rules.
I rather liked the hunter graffiti still. That’s cute.
That one is pretty cute, yeah. Though it is one of those “Why didn’t you guys think of doing that, yourselves, when every supernatural creature on the planet has done it you?” things. I’m curious, also, as to what the sigil (well…sigils, but they probably go together) is for, since I don’t recall seeing before. It probably is an anti-angel sigil, but for what purpose?
Ginger,
I never thought about it being hunter graffiti just because Sam crossed it out. Didn’t think spells could be eliminated so easy.
Very curious what Castiel wrote on Sam’s hand. Maybe it’s a spell of some kind.
So, apparently the CW will make a final decision about renewing SPN for a 9th season based on the ratings when the show returns on january 16th. I can only say: Please all of you sweet people living in the US turn in live. I really want a season 9 (and a season 10 as well btw).
I have been a little anxious about a pick up for a while now, because for some reason… I don’t know… I am just a little worried. Plus: it pisses me off that only the views within the USA count.
Ugh, just ignore me, I am really a little weird today.
The show is not in any danger, whatsoever, ratings for 8.10 or not. In fact, even season ten is almost a given at this point. Whoever is saying that it is at any risk is either a bitter ex-fan, and even more bitter fan of another genre show that is failing, or trolling for hits from anxious saltgunners.
That thing about the ratings came from a Zap2it article, Paula.
“Pedowitz tells Zap2it that Warner Bros. has finalized deals with Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki for the next two potential seasons, which is definitely a good sign for the future of the series. The CW plans to make a final decision about Season 9 based on the show’s ratings when it returns from winter hiatus on January 16.”
Source: http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/01/the-cw-talks-supernatural-season-9-potential-plus-could-castiel-get-a-spin-off.html
Yea, I admit it, that kind of worried me. He sounds like he’s hedging a bit. I get it, he doesn’t want to flat out say “yea, it’s our #3 show, we are renewing it” when he’s not announcing renewals yet. But on the other hand, it would be nice if he wasn’t hedging so much and acting as if it’s in the same boat as “Hart of Dixie,” “90210,” “Beauty and the Beast,” “Nikita,” etc.
Okay, first of all, why are we suddenly taking the word of a blogger who regularly riles up the fandom for extra hits as gospel? Second, as Jared Padalecki pointed out a while back, the network doesn’t have to officially renew the show until May. If the CW does renew the show in January or February, that would be an extremely early renewal.
As for Pedowitz’s assertion that the CW will weight spring ratings heavily over fall ratings, it does that every year for every show. This is why, for example, Nikita got a second season and Hellcats didn’t. Hellcats began the spring better off than Nikita in the demos, but dropped below Nikita toward the end of the spring. That drop probably was what decided its fate. Remember that SPN is not the show the CW is thinking of when it delays these announcements, but those other shows that are already on the bubble. Those shows are the ones whose fates will be decided probably in the last month of episodes.
Even if the return on January 16 tanks (i.e., a 0.5 or below), no show is ever canceled on the basis of a single episode unless that one episode is a disastrous series premiere (because shows rarely exceed the rating on their series premiere, SPN being among the few exceptions). And SPN has a reputation for rebounding from a season low in the first or second new episode after Christmas back up to at or just below (0.1) fall levels. If it does that again, it’s as safe as houses.
In order for SPN to be in danger, two things would have to happen: It would have to drop to an average of 60% of its pre-Christmas A18-49 demo (not just one 0.6 or 0.5, but a whole lot of 0.4-0.6s) and other CW shows would have to drop negligibly, at most. But SPN has been the steadiest of the CW scripted shows since Smallville moved to Friday, especially in spring, and every other show but Arrow and The Vampire Diaries has been dismal this season and dropping hard. Even both The Carrie Diaries and Cult doing very well (which the odds are against) isn’t likely to hurt the show. So, the likelihood of SPN dropping to a 0.4-0.6 and other CW shows not making that look good by dropping even more (especially since SPN currently repeats as well as originals of the CW’s two lowest shows), is about as low as Gossip Girl returning. Impossible? No. Likely? Definitely not.
Disaster is always possible. Of course it is. But with the current ratings, disaster for SPN is really unlikely. And the show also currently has more than enough rope to easily sail through a ninth season to a tenth-season renewal–or even a final eleventh season. That’s a lot of rope, folks.
WB put a lot of money into the series recently by hiring Carver and moving the series from Friday and giving it a hot lead in. And make no mistake money talks. And yes WB had a big in put into what Pedowitz did. He is very right with WB and WB is part owner of CW.
They did that to get SPN numbers up. Question is are the numbers what WB expected. Really the popularity of the show doesn’t matter as much as the money issue. It’s not uncommon for a show to be canceled when the owner, in this case WB feels it has enough episodes in syndication to make enough money and can’t justify spending what it does to produce each episode. Other shows have been canceled for just that reason. I would feel much better if the numbers had climbed to the level of TVD. But they didn’t and the spring episodes always go down for all shows on all networks. If SPN doesn’t sink that would be a good sign that the show is recovering from it’s past disasterous years.
I think WB and CW will wait until May for it’s final decision. Nothing is for sure but I hope it gets a s9. It all depends on how Carver handles the second half of the season
And, Paula, I think I’ll stick with Jim’s comments. I think he is closer to the issue than admins from TBTN. And I do think the overseas revenue matters a lot to WB.
The opinions of fans online about a current storyline mean less than nothing to a show’s prospects. Unless discontent goes hand in hand with an actual drop in ratings, there is no reason for the writers to pay any attention to that.
Jim Michaels says a lot of things that fans spin completely out of proportion. Saying, a year or two ago offhand at a convention, that overseas revenues ultimately saved the show, is pretty vague. And Michaels himself has frequently complained that fans take things he says way out of context. How much in revenues? What kind of revenues? Ads? DVD sales? Online streaming? Which countries? Compared to what other shows? What’s the business model that allowed the show to survive outside the traditional model of advertising fees for live broadcast?
All things considered, his statement is almost meaningless without more information (which he’d probably say if he weren’t already trying to dodge saying things that can be taken out of context) and it still doesn’t change the fact that a strong indication the show is doing well *now* is that its A18-49 is very healthy. Is the show performing up to the level that the network expects? It’s hard to say. We don’t know how much retention they expected from Arrow (or how well they expected Arrow to do).
We do know that SPN’s ratings, already reasonably good compared to other CW shows, went up on Wednesdays and have compared favorably with its lead-in, brand-new hit Arrow. I can’t imagine why the CW wouldn’t be pleased by those results. If Beauty and the Beast were getting what SPN gets, I bet it wouldn’t be even close to the bubble. Right now, SPN does twice as well in the demo as Emily Owens, three times as well as Nikita, not quite twice as well as Beauty and the Beast and 90210. And it was doing over twice as well as Gossip Girl before that show ended. Not only is it consistently third on the network, it is one of only three shows that regularly get above a 1.0 in the ratings.
It makes no sense to say that the WB would now want to cancel the show because they have “enough” episodes and don’t want to spend more money on new ones. New episodes of old shows that are successful in syndication are highly lucrative. In fact, they get more money on Netflix than episodes for newer shows. This is most likely why Gossip Girl got a short final season, despite abysmal ratings, and why 90210 also has a shot at a final half-season. If critical cast members hadn’t bailed, One Tree Hill would have gotten at least one more season and Smallville would probably still be on. The CW is no more likely to cancel SPN because it’s “old” and they have enough episodes than CBS is to cancel NCIS. And if they do wait until May to announce their slate, it will no more be because the show’s fate is in doubt than waiting until May to renew NCIS means CBS is having second thoughts about continuing that franchise. Rather, Pedowitz knows perfectly well that anyone who follows the Nielsens regularly knows that SPN, Arrow and TVD would have to drop half their demos to be at risk and that’s unlikely to happen. The Carrie Diaries and Cult, even if successful, are unlikely to be any threat to any of those top three, though I’m sure the network has hopes for both.
The shows whose fate is most likely to be decided this spring are all the other show, which are on the bubble. And it could be that Pedowitz doesn’t want to tip his hand on those shows, yet. So, what better way to do so than to act cagey about the ones everybody knows are safe?
Jim Michaels made the comment on a podcast last spring or fall and as I remember he was talking about DVD sales and the millions WB makes from selling seasons to stations in other countries and he was referring to any country out side the US. That revenue and the syndication money is why SPN is still filming and why their episode budget increased last year.
And show do get cancelled popular or not when the owner can make more money in syndication than it costs to make each new episode. That’s what happened to Medium for one.
As for the other shows you mentioned, I only know about two.
Gossip Girl, even tho it’s ratings sucked, had some high prices advertisers who paid big bucks to advertise on the series. And as long as they were interested the show stayed on. I don’t know when advertisers sign their contracts with the networks, but if some company wants to dump Mullins in ad dollars for a show Ma network operating in the red isn’t going to do anything with the show. As we know, SPN doesn’t even break even with ad revenue compared to production costs. And most shows don’t even begin to be in the black till the series can be sold for syndication. That’s why hitting the 100th episode was so important to SPN. It finally started making money.
As for Nikita, a lot of money had already been pour into it that they has to decide if they were going to cancel it keep it on till it reached it’s 100th eppie. If a show or renewed for a third season it’s almost guaranteed a four season just cause they are so close to the magic syndication number. It maybe they can syndication it at 80 eppies but if it’s numbers don’t pick up, a fifth season isn’t likely.
Not really surprised BATB is not doing well. I didn’t really think it would but am shocked it beat Arrow for PCA for best new show. Arrow fans must have been asleep at the wheel. Not surprised Emily Owens is tanking at all. Med shows do not have the same draw they used to and the CW had one tank a year or two ago. Was really surprised when the announces an other one. HOD was dead last year. Why they brought it back was a mystery from the beginning.
The only two new show that have a chance in my opinion are Arrow and Cult. Don’t know if you know the history about that show but the idea has been around since Dawn O. days. U
I can’t remember if it was a WB one or not but she axed it. When Pedowitz took over that was the first one he asked for. There was even a promo out this week with SPN announcing it. I think it will do very well.
As for SPN, it looks promising and I hope it gets another season, but if Carver doesn’t keep the numbers steady it might not. Lets just hope he knows what the fans want and gets to call the plays I really do think the second half of 8 will play a roll in the renewal.
From what I heard of Michael’s statements, they were vague and extemporaneous. The DVDs sales are nice, but the CW doesn’t make money off them. Deals for overseas revenues differ greatly and one overseas viewer never rates as highly as a domestic live viewer. The show would have to have a hell of a lot more viewers overseas (The admins at TV by the Numbers generally estimate 10 foreign to 1 domestic) and the WB would have to make it worth the CW’s while to keep the show on the air domestically.
Or, you know, the show may have done just well enough in the A18-49 demos over the years to stay ahead of other shows that did slightly worse and were canceled. Occam’s Razor and all that. We can go through some arcane mumbo jumbo conjured up via vague statements made by one of the show’s producers or we can look at the A18-49 ratings and how many slots the CW needed/could afford to fill that season. The latter method has much more reliable results.
Gossip Girl is a case in point. The infamous anecdotal reference to the $100,000+ demo data point was from several years ago. At that time, Gossip Girl’s W18-34 demo was also quite high. But that demo sank to pitiful levels by the end and it’s probable the high-end demo did so, as well. Gossip Girl’s survival to season six is probably a combination of the former network head being obsessed with it (the critical first two seasons) and its A18-49 demo being just good enough to keep it around once it had enough episodes for syndication. Once a show’s audience sinks way below a million, none of its demos is liable to be stellar.
I’m not quite sure what your statement about shows not being in the black until they hit their hundredth episodes is coming from. Millions of dollars are invested in any Hollywood project before it ever hits the screen. Most projects (movie projects, anyway) are somehow massaged through auxiliary income like DVD sales and licensing for broadcast so as to break even eventually. This is not the same as saying that shows don’t get into the black until they reach their hundredth episode because very few shows make it past season one. Most shows don’t make it past the pilot stage, or even *to* filming a pilot. Even fewer get a back-9 order. Fewer still to a second season. And there are major obstacles to reach season three (because of the usual commitment to go for syndication numbers), season five (once those numbers are reached) and season seven (renegotiating cast contracts). As one of the producers at the 100th episode party for SPN put it, he had co-produced over 200 shows and SPN was one of only a handful of shows that had reached 100 episodes. This puts the percentage of shows that make it to 100 episodes at 2-3%. So, obviously, the networks are making money from shows at every level, not just that tiny percentage, or the TV industry would go down like the Titanic very quickly.
Not seeing the comparison of SPN to Medium. There were rumors two years beforehand that Medium would be cancelled, it was bounced all over the schedule, its episode order was cut and (mostly importantly) it was produced by one network but aired by another. How does any of that compare to SPN since Ostroff left?
Hart of Dixie came back because its A18-49 was steady and somewhat higher than the demos for Ringer, The Secret Circle and Nikita. No secret why it was renewed. Conversely, it now has to justify being renewed for two seasons this year and I’m not sure it can do that. Sadly, Nikita’s appalling ratings may actually swamp Hart of Dixie, since they demonstrate the risk inherent in renewing a bubble show for two seasons just for syndication. Beauty and the Beast, since it only needs to be renewed for a second season, may actually benefit from that. A whole lot depends on the next four months–and how well Carrie Diaries and Cult do. The idea for Cult’s been kicking around a lot longer than the CW. It’s obviously inspired by the late Freaky-Links, and possibly the network webseries, Marble Hornets.
Nikita will never make it to a 100th episode (Okay, if you insist–the odds of Nikita making it to a hundredth episode are abysmally low unless a miracle occurs, like the show tripling its demo). If they do decide to keep it around for a fourth season to make syndication numbers, the number they are looking for is 88 not 100. Its ratings are horrifying, embarrassingly bad. It got a 0.2 for an original-run episode, for God’s sake. The past three falls, it has been dead last on its network in the demo, inching only slightly above Cancellation Bear victims the past two springs. The network may bite the bullet and give it a fourth season (though I am far more skeptical than others that this is automatic or even decided, yet, let alone a case where the show will be aired in a regular season slot rather than burned off over Christmas and summers), but happy about it enough to give it a final half-season? I don’t think so.
Oh, and if you think the network/studio won’t slash Nikita’s budget, to the point where fans notice a huge drop in production quality, think again. The network may want to make more episodes to reach a syndication number, but that doesn’t mean they’ll be good.
Now, I hear you saying, “Oh, but Chuck and Fringe had horrible ratings and they both got final half-seasons in season five!” The answer to that is: Yes, they did, but that was on NBC and FOX, and what makes you think their failures to manage a final season bounce in their ratings would encourage networks to keep doing that? If anything, Chuck and Fringe have made it less likely that other shows will be extended like that. This is why we’re seeing so many knockoffs of SPN and now TVD, and rather fewer of Gossip Girl (After seeing the pilot, which isn’t half-bad, I’d say Carrie Diaries is more a callback to the old WB network teen shows and an attempt to grab Sex and the City fans than inspired by Gossip Girl).
Supernatural is not in any current danger. Stop wishing it dead.
I’m not wishing it dead. That’s silly. I just don’t believe it’s fate has been decided already or will be decided in January and that how it does the rest of the season matters. That’s it.
As one of the admins on TV by the Numbers said about Pedowitz’s latest run of interviews, just because they haven’t made an announcement, doesn’t mean they haven’t already made a decision.
Very true. Lets hope went they do make the announcement it’s favorable. Thanks for the information and but I’ll stick with my opinion. We’ll just have to agree to disagree right now.
I don’t quite understand why you think anything has changed when absolutely nothing has. The show’s status is no different now than it was on December 6 and that status has been the same all fall. It’s not as though the network magically decided over Christmas to include the whole season’s worth of ratings in its evaluations of its shows. It’s just that some shows are so stable and highly rated that the network doesn’t need to wait to see the ratings for the whole season before renewing them. Arrow, The Vampire Diaries and Supernatural are all in that category and the decision to renew them has most likely been made, already.
Friend, the final decision for renewal doesn’t come till May. It maybe that they will decide to announce an early pick up or not sometime in January but that is all. And the overseas people count a lot. It was Jim muchaels who said that a lot if revenue from overseas affiliates has been what has kept the show on air for a while. You guys deserve a lot of credit for the show being on air this long. I do bieve he also said if it was just the US market that counted the show won’t have lasted this long.
As for the ratings, the have improved since last year. Whether that will be enough remains to be seen. I know most think a season 9 and 10 are a given. Nothing is for sure but I for one hope they are right!
Ignore the overseas revenue. I’ve seen the admins on TV by Numbers estimate that each U.S. viewer is worth maybe ten non-U.S. viewers in terms of ad revenue. It is not a one-to-one ratio by any stretch. Nor is there any need to be concerned with such arcanities, since the network A18-49 is third on the entire network and well above the apparent current threshold for the renewal on the CW.
Darn autocorrect! That is Jim Michaels. Sorry about that
More pics from 8.11. A whole lot more:
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/01/felicia-day-returns-supernatural-dean-winchester-larping-and-other-delightful-things.html
I’m sure your right, Paula. You usually are. If the CW only has 3 shows getting 2mil viewers per eppie. Why would they cancel any of them. Maybe this year they will announce early renewals of them. They used to do that in mid Feb. As my b-day is about that time I used to consider it my b-day present from the series. Last was the only year in the last 3 they didn’t do that.
Lancelot, move over. Sir Dean is damn hot! They can dress that boy in anything and he looks mighty good.
Looks like the boys brought their guns to a sword fight. I would have been alright with decapitation as a method to kill…whatever it is they have to kill this episode. Me likey Dean and swords. I want Purgatory back. That would have worked, too.
In case anyone is interested, here is what Pedowitz said about SPN at the TCA yesterday.
“Supernatural: Pedowitz said no official decision has been made about a ninth season for the show, but prospects are high. “We are pleased with how Wednesday night has turned out, with Arrow being a bonafide hit and Supernatural actually gaining viewers again,” he said. “I think creatively the show is in a great place and there’s always a good shot.”
Additionally, for Misha Collins fans…
Web Series: Pedowitz said the network is working on more original online content, including an animated series called Gallery Mallory, featuring the voices of Justin Hartley and Misha Collins, as well as a series featuring Hart of Dixie’s Wilson Bethel.”
http://www.tvguide.com/News/CW-Vampire-Diaries-Supernatural-1058763.aspx
Well, it’s in even less danger today, since The Carrie Diaries series premiere tanked. Not that TCD was a real threat to SPN in the first place, and I did rather enjoy the pilot, but TCD’s stumble out of the gate isn’t exactly bad news for SPN’s renewal prospects.
8.10 Producer’s Preview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60B3gOvrLhk
In the end clip it looks like Sam is terrified and Dean is sympathetic (feels sorry for him). Maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part. Hope this is not the start of Sam getting out from under this time. But have to say, the way he looked made me feel sorry for him.
Every time I hear Sam give Dean another ultimatum, I get an immediate negative reaction. Of course, there’s no reason for that…new showrunner and all of that. But past show history always has had Dean apologizing and promising not to hurt Sammy’s feelings again. I hope it’s a new day tomorrow night, because the clip was pretty exciting.
Sam comes across as increasingly dickish and more and more unable to see his own faults and problems; I will be amazed if there is no resolution to this that involves a fall for him this season. Dean’s facial expression at the very end when he turns around is interesting: it’s like “Again, Sam?” I wonder if Dean has quietly reached the end of his vast patience with Sam.
Even looking beyond the dickishness (which, it must be said, is getting very tiresome), what is striking is how passive Sam is being. It’s not just passive-aggressive. He literally wants Dean to make all the decisions and then tear them down. He doesn’t want to make a single decision on his own.
And it’s not just with Dean, either. What in the name of Azathoth does Sam think he’s doing with Amelia? That boy is seriously confused.
Yes, and that’s why I feel that the resolution of Sam’s arc has to be that, he, completely on his own and away from any of Dean’s influence, has to make a choice about his life, stick to it, and never ever blame anyone else for it ever again. Never bring up what might have been, the road not taken. Perhaps what Dean needs to do is to give him, in very clear terms, his blessings to make a choice. Then Sam will have no excuses left but to choose.
I just hope Carver has some endgame in store for Sam’s story, after subjecting his audience to Sam and his horrendous story this season (which is not just confined to Amelia, but his overall dickishness too).
I don’t know if you all noticed but the setting for the scene is in the hotel room where Dean finds Sam. It must take place after Sam tries to close the door in Dean face. So yeah I’m guessing Sam did another arrogant demand from Dean and it sure looked like Dean was going to give in. I will be so unhappy if after all this time of making Sam face all the wrongs he has done, he gives Sam another pass. If he does that he will be sacrificing the show for the sake of a minority of fans. Not to mention his own reputation. How sad that will be.
I was thinking how much this reminder me or the Star Trek episode where they first found Khan and his people. They was an ensign who became infatuated with him but couldn’t decide if she wanted to stay with him or StarFleet. Khan said, “go or stay, but do it because it’s what YOU want to do.” Sam should have watched Star Trak.
Really it isn’t Dean’s decision. He has made his choice. He’s in the family business for the long haul. He’d like to do it with Sam but He does have other choices. It’s Sam who has to decide. I guess growing up is hard to do!
Check this out! Australia’s Channel 11 is running this promo for 8.10. Benny is BACK!!! Ha! Now I have to worry about if he is going die or not!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=If7EjCihlRo
Hmm, no. That’s from 8.09. And the bit where Sam throws down the demon bomb is from 8.07. People have been talking about that promo on other sites and it includes footage from older episodes.
I saw Sam being self righteous dickish self absorbed Sam. I saw Dean seeing his brother in all his sammish glory. I think Dean will do what is necessary to help castiel and sweet samadriel. But I do not see resolution between the two yet. Sam has to acknowledge that his choices have consequences (and playing it passive so you are not responsible is a choice ). Then GE has to follow castiel’s lead and apologize, make amends, etc.
Sam may think he’s won in the short -tern, but he’s lost Dean’s respect big-time, and I would go so far as to say Dean has realized that he doesn’t like Sam. He certainly doesn’t trust him.