- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 07/04/12
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- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 07/18/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 07/25/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 08/01/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 08/08/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 08/15/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 08/22/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 08/29/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 09/05/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 09/12/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 09/19/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 09/26/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 10/03/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 10/10/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 10/17/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 10/24/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 10/31/12: The Halloween Edition!
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 11/07/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 11/14/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 11/21/12: The Thanksgiving Edition!
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 11/28/12
- TV Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 12/05/12
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This week, we have spoilers for Once Upon a Time and Supernatural.
Once Upon a Time (Sunday nights, 8pm, ABC)
By Heather S. Vina
So, the big news of the week is that the show has officially cast its two new princesses and that they are Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) and Mulan. Both characters will be recurring.
Sarah Bolger has been cast as Aurora. She’s been in The Tudors and the movie, In America.
Actress Jamie Chung has been cast as Mulan. She has been in Hangover 2 and Sucker Punch.
Robert Carlyle (Rump/Gold) gave an interview with the OnceUponATimeFans site, talking about his career and his work on Once. No spoilers.
MyFanbase did an interview with Eion Bailey (Pinocchio, August), where he talked about his roles on Once and Covert Affairs. No spoilers, but he was put up for Emmy consideration, along with Jared Gilmore (Henry).
Keck at TV Guide has an interview up with executive producers Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis, where they reveal that they are trying to find a role for Jorge Garcia (Hurley in Lost), and have plans to bring in the character Ariel from The Little Mermaid, as well as Aladdin and Jafar from Aladdin.
And finally, SpoilerTV revealed that the show is casting a new character, a knight. “For episode 2.03 of Once Upon a Time, an African American knight with a British accent is being cast. He’s a sword for hire who lost his true love (Of course he did – who hasn’t on this show?) and was banished from his kingdom.”
The show’s Comic-Con panel is this weekend, Saturday, so, hopefully, we will have a lot more spoilers to sift through, come next week!
Supernatural (Friday nights, 9pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles
First up, before we get to the controversial stuff, let’s talk schedule changes. Supernatural will be switching from its old Friday night slot to the new Wednesday one starting on July 25. Okay, now, here’s where it gets confusing. The CW is heavily promoting the show in the latter half of July and first half of August. On July 25, August 1 and August 8 (Wednesdays), the show will air a double-billing of episodes, 8-10pm, after which it will run single episodes on Wednesdays until its season premiere October 3. In addition, the show will also continue to air episodes on Fridays (with the exception of July 27, for some reason) through August 17. After that, it’ll be just Wednesdays from then on.
With me so far?
Okay, interpreting this from the CW’s previous behaviour, this odd scheduling has four likely and simultaneous purposes. One is, obviously, to get people to become used to the change and bring as many viewers, both dedicated and casual, as possible over to the new night. The second could be to air as many episodes from the last season as possible, so that the audience has a chance to play catch-up (“Slash Fiction” was skipped, but since it already repeated in April, there may be licensing issues involved in repeating it again).
Third is that this is the usual thing the CW does when it senses it has a hit and wants to boost it – the network airs repeats of that show all over the schedule. This is the CW actively promoting Supernatural for the first time ever (The first season doesn’t count because that was the WB). And fourth is that Supernatural repeats at or very near the top of the network the past couple of seasons, so airing the show so much in a given week for a little while may actually boost the network’s demos a little, while also promoting the show. The upcoming episodes listed so far are: “Season Seven, Time for a Wedding!” (7/13), “How to Win Friends and Influence Monsters” (7/20), “Death’s Door” (7/25, 8pm), and “Adventures in Babysitting” (7/25, 9pm).
Pre-Comic-Con spoilers (Comic-Con started today and the Supernatural panel is this Sunday) have been leaking out. Late edit: Jeremy Carver gave a brief interview that appeared as part of a general article in USA Today about the convention (Thanks, Caroline). By the way, if you’re there, look for the Supernatural official Comic-Con bag.
A TV Guide interview with Bob Singer created loads of controversy and was perceived as Samcentric. Singer stated that Dean would get himself out of Purgatory; that there would be a time jump to after Dean got out; that Purgatory would be referenced in flashbacks, as would Sam’s time while Dean was in Purgatory; that Kevin Tran would be important to the story; that angels and demons would be duking it out for control over various realms, as Crowley tried to use Kevin to find and read different Words of God; that Charlie, Sheriff Mills and Garth might be back; that Castiel would be back “a number of times” (though Singer was very vague on how many); that a new character would be introduced, a monster Dean met in Purgatory; and that new showrunner, Jeremy Carver, would introduce no major new differences. Raiders of the Lost Ark was also referenced as the chosen film/genre to be pillaged this year. For what that’s worth.
Now, a fair number of fans are annoyed at the supposed Samcentricity of the interview. However, there are quite a few Deancentric spoilers in this, especially allowing for the blatant Sam-centric interview questions. For example, the first question asks if Sam will rescue Dean from Hell. Singer’s immediate answer is that Dean will rescue himself. Only belatedly, after mentioning that there will be Purgatory flashbacks, as well, does he say that Sam’s time on earth, while Dean was in Purgatory, will get a mention. Also, the infamous “Everybody hates it when you separate the brothers” thing is brought up by the interviewer and Singer just goes along with it.
I can’t say I disagree with the fan sarcasm aimed at Singer’s comment that Charlie must be popular with fans because “she wasn’t seen as a threat to the boys’ relationship” (The redshirt lab Leviathan from “Survival of the Fittest” wasn’t a threat to the brothers’ relationship, either; doesn’t mean I want to see him come back). However, the showrunners frequently talk about this or that character they’d like to see come back. Doesn’t mean that character ever does. Don’t expect to see Charisma Carpenter’s Maggie return any time soon, for example. Carpenter’s landed a new regular gig on The Lying Game.
That said, you might take that tweet about spotting a “beaver” on set a few days ago (They started filming 8.03 on Monday) seriously (On the other hand, it’s Canada and beavers, like other wildlife, aren’t uncommon around Greater Vancouver). I’m not wild about Bobby possibly coming back to be killed off for the millionth time, but I’ll hang fire until I actually see the episode to wank about it. The same crewmember also tweeted a couple of photos from location scouting, including one she teased might be the “door to SPN Purgatory”.
Speaking of being sarcastic about female guest characters, fans are being downright snarky about Sam’s new love interest, Amelia (a physician described as “a tragedy-damaged soul [who] soon reveals herself to be a brave, sweet, smart, sarcastic woman”. Greetings, Mary Sue. We meet again). Well, Amelia has been cast. She’ll be played by Canadian actress Liane Balaban. In Ms. Balaban’s defense, she’s 32 and has been in 39 projects since 1999, which ain’t a half-bad career so far. The show has done rather well whenever it casts for experience rather than “looks CW hot in leather and hooker boots,” so she might turn out to be a fan favourite, after all. If she does, expect the show to kill her off as soon as it possibly can.
Jared Padalecki was yesterday caught filming a scene in which Sam has a dog and calls out to Amelia. There is a shot of Balaban from behind, as well as some newer photos of Padalecki, Balaban and Ackles. Jensen Ackles put in a directorial appearance in the first set of photos in a t-shirt and cargo shorts. Padalecki later tweeted that he was done shooting and had the day off.
The title for 8.02 (more likely to be the season premiere, in the final count) is being reported as “We Need to Talk About Kevin” (and the stupid episode titles trend continues). It seems that Dean’s new Purgatory “friend” will be named ‘Benny’ and “will mask a deep savagery.” Further info came from the Ask Kristin column, in that Benny is now allegedly being cast: “the darkly handsome Benny, who is an easy-going, no-B.S. kind of fellow…with a bit [of] a savage side deep down, of course. Think Johnny Cash meets Benicio Del Toro. We’re sold!” The same column also mentioned that Alan Ackles would be appearing in 8.03 (being directed by his son) as an actual character rather than the voiceover from “Weekend at Bobby’s”. The column then promptly yanked that whole spoiler, but it’s since been preserved for posterity by a dozen other sites. Cat, bag, all that.
Benny may be a big part of a Deancentric mytharc this season. Zap2It is reporting that the big mystery won’t be when Dean escapes Purgatory but how. And the show always sets up its mytharc by the end of the season premiere. I think much depends on just what Benny is and how (or if) he gets out of Purgatory, too. For example, if he rides out inside Dean’s head, we could get a little Crichton-in-Farscape action going here.
Finally, the demo for the repeat of “The Mentalists” was 0.3/1 and the audience was 910 thousand.
We’ll be back next week with more spoilers. Stay tuned and check out our reviews of Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Event, Once Upon a Time, Grimm and Supernatural.
If you like these spoilers, please help continue our site by making a donation, buying one of our fiction issues, or buying one of our books: Fraterfamilias, Historical Lovecraft, Future Lovecraft, and our Gothic horror anthology, Candle in the Attic Window. You can also buy Paula’s non-fiction book on medieval Spanish history, Templar Convivencia.
You guys seen this from Carver (source http://www.usatoday.com):
“We’re always looking for a deeper meaning, because a lot of the monsters of the week are sometimes reflections of what our boys are going through on an emotional level,” says Carver, who also enjoys “making the mundane monstrous” and taking things with positive cultural impressions and turning them on their ear.
“Whether it’s an angel or Santa Claus or a teapot, there will be blood. There’s pleasure in pain, as it were.”
To me this sound so much more like the sort of thing I want to be hearing right now about a show I love.
Yeah, that’s the kind of stuff he’s talked about with “Being Human”, too. And you do see that in the characters. I don’t love every single thing he’s done on “Being Human” (especially with some of the recurring characters), but when he talks about going for the archetypal jugular, he’s not just kidding.
I can’t be sure, based on the pics, but it looks like the sideburns of doom have been trimmed. That’s a good thing, right there.
I really don’t care one way or the other about Amelia. She could be a good thing – I’m willing to give the character a chance, if only because they didn’t cast an anorexic 20-year-old who looks 14. As Paula said, casting seems to do a better job when they go older than the CW norm. I really wish that Sam was spending his time making hunter contacts, and bringing that portion of the SPN world to life, but whatever.
I’m assuming that Benny is the monster friend from Purgatory. That, I’m actually not so sure about (not least because I’ve never been a Del Toro fan). I’ll reserve judgement until I see the character, but while I *really* want the ‘verse to expand it’s character set, I’m tired of the guys working with monsters. I’d just as soon that recurring theme be dropped.
I hope that Bobby will only return via flashbacks to earlier times. The character needs to stay gone. Along with Garth and Christy(?).
@CarolineC
I like Carver’s quote, and I’m hoping that the show returns to it’s horror roots and leaves the soap n’ suds behind. I like dark, horror, pain and blood. I don’t want the show to go back to the gratuitous use of same that has marred the latter seasons, but simple things like those used in Home, Bloody Mary and Shadows, that could make a return. That shit still freaks me out, after all these years.
Yeah. I was relieved to see Balaban’s photos, which communicate a lot of behind-the-eyes character. SPN rarely goes wrong when they cast an actress with that look. And apparently she’s a really good actress who’s had a number of standout roles. That’s not to say SPN won’t screw up, but I’m relieved that this is how they’re thinking about a love interest.
Check out the second set of photos I just linked to. Either the Death ‘Burns have been trimmed back or his hair is a *lot* longer.
In the first set of photos you posted, in one of pics Jensen is wearing a black t shirt with “Beaver Creek” across the chest. Could this be the beaver sighting that got tweeted about? or maybe it’s a gentle protest, or a hello.
I’m really encouraged by Carver’s words. He sounds like he knows how to conjure and keep contact with the more intangible stuff that holds a thing together. You were right to say we should wait to hear what he said before falling into despair.
Jeremy’s quote is exactly what I hoped to see when the showrunner change was announced. It’s very comforting and hopefule that this is a direct quote from him.
Paula, you seem to mention recurring characters a lot when speaking of Carver. Does he put a lot of emphasis on recurring characters on Being Human? That’s my one big worry about him, especially after the past two season under SG’s leadership, where the writers gave every appearance of being bored with the two leads or out of creative ideas for the characters.
Good factual and logical spoilers report, Paula.
So good to see the sideburns gone, but every time I see a picture of Jared’s hair, and want to grab a hairbrush and hair pieces.
Just the pictures of Amelia frolicking in the sun in her sundress screams Mary Sue to me, but it doesn’t matter. I’ve already put Sam/Amelia scenes on my FF’g to do list.
I see potential and not in the Benny spoiler. I’m interested in it; but I, too, wished they would drop the working with monsters theme.
Can’t be worried right now about how Dean got out of Purgatory. The bigger cliffhanger to me is what is Jeremy going to do with the show, as I haven’t been very excited about the very few and early spoilers. However, I did like the quote from Jeremy, as I stated above.
Nice writeup! It’s cool to see so much pulled together all at once. This is a big week.
I think we’re stuck with Schrodinger’s Box ‘O Spoilers right now. (Carver’s Box.) We have all of these spoilers, like “Kevin will be important” and “love interest” and “flashbacks throughout the season.” But they’re currently trapped in a box with deadly threats that have a 50/50 chance of destroying them.
(Schrodinger’s cat was stuck with poison and radioactive decay. In Carver’s Box, Kevin et al are stuck with “We all know SPN has screwed this up before” and “Robert Singer’s publicity acumen” and “the same writers who just brought us S6 and S7″) Lucky cat.)
And, just like Schrodinger’s Box, we have no way to judge whether the spoilers will suck or not suck until we open Carver’s Box (= the episode airs.) I never really understood this part, but that means that the show is currently hovering in an unknowable suck/not-suck state. The spoilers will continue to suck and not-suck *at the same time* until October, when everything collapses.
Actually, yeah, that sounds like SPN.
I’m starting to tip over to not-suck. I’m getting hope even though Carver’s Box is so unknowable. Like, I totally get why the spoiler about Kevin wouldn’t excite people. Why care about extraneous last-three-episode stereotype kid? (I’m calling it right now: he’s gonna get called Short Stuff.)
But on the not-suck side:
SPN is SO much better positioned to emulate Raiders than the past two attempts. “Film Noir” means: aim for tragedy, betrayal, murk. Butch and Sundance apparently meant: the only thing we got out of the movie was pointless loss.
Raiders universally means: aim for fun and the best damn adventure plot you can come up with. It’s a really good target to aim for.
On the one hand, people were meh on Kevin (though many appreciated Osric Chau.) So nobody’s all that concerned about seeing him rescued. On the other hand, human loose ends like Adam and Jesse are sore spots to this day. It’s always been stupid to do that; I’m glad they’re not doing it now.
Having skipped most of Season 7, I am excited to check out what Season 8 may bring and whether it will be worth watching Supernatural again.
“That said, you might take that tweet about spotting a “beaver” on set a few days ago”
As AggieD mentioned above, Jensen’s T-shirt had “Beaver Creek” written across it. Those BTS pictures suggested that may have been the beaver they had tweeted about, because Bobby Singer did not seem to fit into this episode.
I am quite neutral about the Amelia spoiler. But if it gives Sam something to do, without trying to force supernatural status/superhero destiny on him every single season, I am satisfied. If how Dean got out of Purgatory is the mystery, it is reliving some of the mystery of how Dean and Sam got out of Hell in earlier seasons. In those cases it was Castiel who was responsible. If it is again Castiel who used Benny to help Dean piggyback himself back into earth, it would have a nice symmetry. It may also explain why Benny has not been cast yet – his identity could be the mystery that slowly unfolds.
Can I just say: I AM EXCITED!!!!
))) I mean really excited. And that might also be because I’m getting my crazy theory-brain spinning already and very fast! 
Those new spoilers sound sooooooooo good. Especially what Carver had to say himself. Love that direction and also love the slight Dean spoilers. Also, I wasn’t a fan of the Amelia thing, but I have to admit that I really like Liane Balaban in that role. I think purely judged by her look she fits very well to Sam and I like – as others of you pointed out before – is in her 30s and not some “cheerleader-girl”. I also hope that the Benny character will at least be the legal age to have a drink. I’m not into having another 16 year old on the show. One Kevin Tran is enough for me, thank you. 
But honestly, I’ve been thinking a LOT about the episode title “We need to talk about Kevin” and I’ve got millions of ideas. You want to hear them? Probably not, hm?! I’ll post them anyways.
If you continue reading please be aware this is really just completely over the board imagining, no facts except for the spoilers we got so far.
So, one should assume, okay, this is going to be about Kevin Tran, because we already heard that it’s the season about “Kevin and the god tablets”, but I am not so sure. Most of the time the titles mean a little more than the obvious, so here’s hope to that. I’ve got 3 ideas what the title could mean and what other characters than Kevin could be involved.
Well, first I might add that this episode title is based of the 2003 published book “We need to talk about Kevin” by Lionel Shriver. I won’t go into details here, but if you want to know more about it just google it. I say beforehand though that I didn’t read the whole book, just excerpts, so I could be totally wrong with all my ideas…
So, idea #1: This would be the idea that’s based on the obvious, meaning it’s about Kevin Tran. Now… It seems like Dean will be back from purgatory in the first episode already, so I guess that when the brother have re-connected the next step would be to get info on where Kevin is at and what Crowley’s playing at. They guys would actually “need to talk about Kevin”. Or, maybe Sam already knows a bit more about the situation of Crowley and his quest to find all the god tablets and that he needs Kevin to decipher them. So maybe, just maybe, and I highly doubt that, but with SPN you never know Kevin “changed” (just like the Kevin in the book) and now helps Crowley because he wants to and not because he’s being held at gun point.
Idea #2: This idea involves Sam and Sam’s “love interest” Amelia. As has been said, Amelia has some kind of “tragic background”. So, based on the book I could either imagine that Amelia either had an older brother (Benny?), who “went dark side” (just like the Kevin in the book) or she had a child of her own, experiencing something similar like the mother in the book.
And finally idea #3 (which I kind of would love to see, because… what can I say I just love Dean, no matter (or especially when he is feral as hell and a little to a lot fucked up… or might become): So, this idea would have Dean and the purgatory aftermath in the center. I assume that Dean will come back changed from purgatory. It seems that he’s been there for months, maybe years (timejump) and being in a place like purgatory (even though he might not have been completely alone there. Yeah, I hope Cas was with him, but if not this would make even more sense) surely will take a toll on you or at least change you. Now, the third idea is that Dean actually comes back kind of “being like the Kevin” from the book. Meaning: a killer, a “psychopath” who went absolutely nuts in purgatory to survive and based on that comes back VERY changed. This way, Sam’s “human problem” of the season might be Dean, who he needs to get back on track. Maybe it’s him and Amelia, who “need to talk about Kevin(Dean)” and how they can help Dean re-adjust to live on earth.
Oh, how I’d love to see a Jensen Ackles playing a completely balls to the walls feral almost insane Dean. Am I a bad person for wanting to see that?! :/
Okay, I guess I’ll stop here. Enough crazy for today.
Either way, whether any of those ideas might be playing out on screen or none of them (which is far more likely), I continue to be beyond excited for season 8. Hellatus, be over soon, okay?!
No, your not a bad person for wanting it. I want to see it too
A hyper vigilant Dean whose ready to whip out a knife at the slightest noise, or Dean who sleeps with his back to the wall refusing to let go of his knife.
I wouldn’t even mind seeing some small signs of PTSD, for example, food would be scarce is purgatory so maybe we see Dean hording food or water.
There is such rich potential for Dean her if they would only take advantage of it.
I remember at the start of season 4 when they were trying to keep Dean’s return a secret, the casting sides called him Phil or Jeff or a more generic guy. They also put out a casting call for Cas saying he was a demon. I wonder if the real title is supposed to be Let’s Talk about Dean but they dont’ want to make it too spoilery. But I doubt there is much chance of that.
I have my own impausible theories. I wonder if Amelia is actually introduced in the premier. She is recurring, and it doesn’t say Sam first meets her in episode 3. I wonder if Dean’s found injured or unconscious and he’s taken to the hospital and Amelia is Dean’s doctor and calls Sam because she finds his name on Dean somewhere. There must be a reason they made her a doctor.
As for Amelia, I’m pretty neutral right now. I don’t mind if Sam has a girlfriend as long as her sarcasm isn’t directed at Dean and taking pot shots at his intelligence while Sam stands there with a smirk on his face, or Dean isn’t presented as jealous. Which would be totally OCC for him.
@crowley_gal: Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. It would make sense if Amelia was introduced in the season premiere. I could very well imagine that Dean will be hospitalized after his return. Maybe her “tragic background” will be connected with Dean (and so Sam) in a way, which makes her wary of Sam at first. Something like, maybe Dean is literally like falling from the sky or suddenly is waking up in a middle of the road when causing a car crash that involves someone of Amelia’s family or something like that.
I can’t help but sometimes think of TVD and how they introduced the doctor character there and then revealing her character step by step. Could be they go with something like that.
@AFriendOfAFriend Just wanted to say, I love your brain! Your speculation about potential plots is really enthusiastic and makes me feel a lot more hopeful about what might happen next season
Also I agree about wanting to see ‘Jensen Ackles playing a completely balls to the walls feral almost insane Dean,’ and if you are a bad person for wanting that, then so am I!
@Caroline C: Thank you! <3
Haven’t read the book (there was a movie too right?) But I especially like Dean going dark. Kevin going dark seems too literal considering the title… and he’s a prophet…. cant see him siding with Crowley unless Crowley is angelic.
Glad carver’s first words gave so much joy.
I’m so negative, I apologize in advance lol.
Spoilers sucked, now I care for one thing only. I want Dean the Badass. Sam can tiptoe through the tulips with Amelia and the Doggie, but the Benny thing has me scared that he will be the resident Badass, and not Dean.
Remember when Dean had to appear delicate featured, while Souless and the Campbells made him seem like he need to take hunter lessons? Is Benny going to school Dean now?
This Benny, who is an original contribution from Carver, who is writing the premier, I asume … uh, BENNY IS CARVER’S MARY SUE now?
Does Carver have a visible Mary Sue in Being Human? We know about Kripke’s already. Will Dean be downtrodden by 2 Mary Sues?
IDK but I can keep finding more things to worry about, if you like. Sorry again. lol
Maybe I am giving sg too much credit but I believe in retrospect the Dean bashing in s6 was keeping with the noir detective archetype he represented. Didn’t GE even have a bandaid on his nose at one point. If you have seen the big sleep (Bogart), Chinatown (Nicholson) or the long good-bye (Gould), you know what I mean. Fumbling along for most of the story, doggedly seeking the truth, betrayal from close associate, nothing is what it seems. I know sg missed the mark- in her defense trying this for an entire season rather than tightly paced 2 hour movie may have been ambitious.
Early Dean was already kinda crazy. I really really hope we see dark, feral, hoarding, jumpy, etc. Carver is not sg. We will see more than palm pushing. Worst case scenario ja will show us a lot more than hand grabbing.
Dean is way more comfy with the supernatural. I have no problem with a monster friend. Thought…. what if cas is the one with the alter and Dean is just psycho killer crazy. Maybe cas is Benny. Singer was cagey about cas returning.
Two questions about spoiler links:
From Carver blurb: writer states supernatural premier is Oct 10th. I thought Oct. 3rd was the cw announced date.
From singer article: again with Crowley sent Dean and cas to purgatory. Where does this come from? How did I miss this.
I agree — the idea of Dean as gumshoe may have been in place from the start of the season. It jives particularly well with the way everyone dismisses Domesticated Dean, who is literally the world’s greatest living hunter, just barely hanging on to a veneer of civility. And then *every* person who underestimated him is eventually shown to be a corrupt fool and summarily rubbed out. And of course you have Death ordering his gumshoe to get to work, and a certain amount of Dean-detecting. Dean, tarnished yet pure of heart, begs his best pal (the falling angel) to walk the straight and narrow. But in the end Dean can’t choose friendship over natural law.
I’m surprised by how much noir there actually was, all the way through. What defeated them was the decision not to show Dean solving the mystery. They tried to catch up with Castiel’s long confession, which was noirish in itself, but didn’t replace the need for genuine clever detecting by the hero.
I think the Show Contradicting Tell problem that Paula just described was a major factor. Dean got credible Philip Marlowe action, if you watched what he was *doing*. The problem was, there was never a moment before or after Death when that was underscored by what anyone was *saying.*
I read the summary of what Singer said in TVG, and I didn’t really take it as Sam centric. I mean, what he said earlier in TVG was DEFINITELY Sam centric. The waxing on about Sam’s sensitive soul and his humanity and his upcoming storyline focusing on his special snowflake humanity, while basically just saying that Dean was there and in the way for Crowley’s great plans for Cass…definitely Sam centric and decidedly anti-Dean.
This one in the Comic Con issue (going by the summarized version) wasn’t so much Sam centric as decidedly lacking in Dean and lacking in anything remotely exciting or intriguing for the season. He sounded as if he was waffling on whether or not they were going to introduce a Purgatory recurring monster (“And there’s one new character that we’re talking about. It’s a monster that Dean meets in Purgatory.”), which makes me suspicious that this new character Benny could be said monster. It’d be nice, but I’m not counting my eggs until they actually come out and say it, not with the way Singer was waffling.
Other than that, all we have is that Dean gets out of Purgatory (thanks, Singer, like we didn’t know he wasn’t going to be back *rolls eyes*) fairly early…and that’s it. And then a lot of blather about recurring characters and guest characters, and how recurring characters Crowley and Kevin will be driving the season long story, rather than – you know – the LEADS THEMSELVES.
At least with Sam we know that he has a recurring love interest, so we know he has a storyline for the season. It may not be exciting, but it’s there. So far, nothing official has listed Dean as actually having a storyline (I don’t count Carina’s “the mystery is how Dean got out” since she isn’t listing it as coming from somewhere specific, such as casting sides, and I find her supposed insider spoilers suspicious unless she does), which frankly, I find very discouraging.
One of the things that really disappoints me is that NOTHING Singer said sounds very exciting. “Raiders of the Lost Ark” with Crowley and Kevin? Boring. I really don’t need a repeat of last season, where Dean and Sam’s connection to the season’s mytharc was so tenuous that they were easily replaced by any recurring or guest character that the show brought in. And frankly, this show has SUCKED at movie ripoffs, so Singer boasting about them doing another one just leaves me cold.
But the thing that disappointed me most about Singer’s comments, and what is frankly turning me off of this season right now, is his statement that Carver has no plans to change anything. Really? If that’s a reassurance, then consider me vastly un-reassured. What we need IS change.
We need someone to care enough to give Dean a supernatural, mytharc related storyline that has a beginning, a middle, and an end. We need someone to care about Sam’s growth as a human being and stop writing him as a self-centered azzhole who cares more about some random monster than he does his brother. We need someone who cares about Castiel enough to bring him back and work him into the show again. We need someone who cares about writing a rich, exciting mytharc storyline that keeps people on the edge of their seats, while also surrounding it with stand alone episodes that are just as good. We need someone who cares about the characters and keeping them true to themselves, and who also cares about the story and fandom as well: fandom as a whole, not just the small, minority group that kisses their butts.
Maybe they are just trying not to throw Gamble and her regime under the bus. But regardless, hearing Singer say that and hearing that they are reuniting the brothers right away – denying us and Dean, his Purgatory storyline that so many of us wanted – because “fans usually hate it when the brothers are separated,” is just UGH for me. It’s giving me flashbacks to the end of season 5 and all of season 6-7, which catered to a very small subset of fans and gave the rest of us the proverbial finger.
I really hope at Comic Con Carver can reassure me that he’s got a firm grip on this show, what can work and what needs to be done, and is ready to do it. Because right now, with all of the spoilers that Singer gave and all of the cold water Singer has thrown all over my enthusiasm, I’m not feeling season 8. At all.
Nice round up Paula. I try to keep up with the spoilers but I see I missed a few.
I like the tweet about the “Door to Purgatory.” For some reason it reminded me of a Twilight Zone episode where a beautiful blonde was shunned because her beauty was abnormal to that world and what we called ugly and disfigured were normal to them. I can see Carver doing a twist like that. That peaceful looking pastoral scene just feels like a huge misconception.
I did feel that Singer’s interview was very Sam-centric and I was very unhappy when he said Carver’s presence wouldn’t change much on the series.
That just seemed like a Kripke stunt trying to upset fans again. I can’t think of *any* site that did not joyously praise the addition of Carver and welcome all his ideas and changes. That should be something the producers should want to promote for the good, NOT tell people that nothing will change. That just seemed like a very dumb move on the part of the series. That’s what people want most. CHANGE!!! If they don’t get it this time, I think many will just dump the series for good.
I also find it strange that everyone talks about Dean getting out of Purgatory and nothing about Castiel. He is another VERY popular character and not mentioning anything about him is slighting another section of the fans.
And as much as I would LOVE for Amelia to take Sam out of the hunting circuit, it will never happen. It just a Lisa/Ben arc for Sam now. And I think she will die as well, but I suspect they will drag it out till the end of the season. So do we get a soulless!Dean after Purgatory? I don’t know…seems they are just recycling all the plots with the main characters. I will be so disappointed in Carver if they do that. At least they should pick ones that were better received.
Maybe things will seem more positive after CC.
Ha! I love that episode. The beautiful blond went on to play Ellie may clampett.
I honestly think singer talks around things and focuses on minutiae. Besides he is the admin Guy. Carver is the concept Guy. Focus on Carver. Look into my eyes. It cannot be worse. It can only get better. Dean will be the hero and feral crazy badass gorgeous to boot. Cas will get a great story too. Dean and cas bff forever! When I snap my fingers you will awaken refreshed and full of hope for season 8.
The noir is probably obvious throughout if you know the genre and know that is what they were going for. They dhould drfinitely have showed more. For instance, the noir gumshoe roots are succinctly establish in episode 1 of angel; of course it was set in the concrete jungle. I completely missed it with supernatural when I watched it the first time, and only started thinking about it when I read that was 6 ‘s theme. The bandaid should have been the clue for dean. The man who would be king is very noirish with the voice-over. Mommie dearest is also noirish. And of course the double crosses, etc. Should make a rewatch interesting. Of course I like many episodes as stand alone motw in 6. As far as I know only one episode title was from a noir film, the zither scored The third man (orson Wells and Joseph cotton). Admittantly it has been a long time since I watched classic noir. I did see Gould’s take on Marlowe recently. He was/is a great actor.
I wonder if I will ever see butch and sundance in s 7?
As for the upcoming raiders vibe. It sounds like a fun vibe. For sure Dean is the Indy character. The boys will be hunting and fighting demons. Kevin’s integral role is to read the word once freed from the mudbrick. He was unaware of it until that point. It seems unlikely he will be in many episodes unless they find more word nearly every week. Same for Crowley. He is big picture. He isn’t going to be doing the grunt work.
And if paula is right in her arc/Grail/amulet analogy (see previous spoilers post), then Dean is in the thick of purgatory and the new mytharc. Raiders had a helluva lot of action. Yeehaw!
I hope Paula is right about the Indy analogy and yes I LOVED the Indy movies. But we are still dealing with the same writers from last season. Except for Carver, who is supposed to be not changing anything, all the writers are the same. They didn’t come through before so I am skeptical about them doing an Indy analogy any better.
@Cassieo. Didn’t Carver write the Groundhog Day episode where Dean keeps dying? Sorry my mind is so holey I can’t remember what the episode is called but I do remember enjoying the wit, the storytelling, and the pace. And maybe he didn’t write it after all. But if he did, it would suggest Carver will be rather good at steering the pastiche / homage to the Indy films while keeping the supernatural feeling alive.
Ah, Indy… I’m holding out for Dean with a whip coiled at his hip.
Yep. Carver wrote Mystery Spot and it was directed buy Kim Manners. That episode had everything going for it. And Carver has written some of my favorites like A Very Supernatural Christmas, Deadmen Don’t wear Plaid, And Changing Channels.
There is NO question the man has a very deep, active imagination for horror. If he ever took to novels, he would be as good as King.All you have to do it watch BH to see that.
I’m sure we will get some fabulous episodes. But we have fabulous episodes every season. Not all of them are bad. That’s not the point. What we want and what the show needs is some vary major restructuring….like writing for the majority of fans not a small select few. The series needs to highlight Dean, repair Sam and come up with storylines that are not just a rehash of what has already been done.
If Carver has free rein, I have no doubt things will change,BUT he is a CO-showrunner. He *shares* the spot with Singer and that is a concern.
I just hope Singer was mistaken about Carver’s role. I can’t say ‘lying’ because he was the only one all year last season who was honest with the fans.
At this point I just wanna know what’s the deal with Castiel and why he basically hasn’t been mentioned at all. Is his stuff linked with Dean–whose is considered “too spoilery” and therefore not being mentioned either or did the writers forget he exists and plan to shoe horn him in somehow eventually. I mean of course I still want Dean to get an actual story this season but either way he’ll have something to do because he’s a co lead so now it’s Castiel that I’m worried about. Like him or not he is a popular character and people wanna know what’s up with him, and I wish the people in charge would say something positive about him instead of just ‘oh he’ll be in a number of episodes but we’re basically too busy focusing on keeping Sam and Dean attached at the hip to think about anyone who isn’t them.’ *deep breath* I’m okay lol.
In other news for purely evil and selfish reasons I hope Amelia is awesome and that Sam really cares about her. I also have to mark Oct 3 on my calender or I’ll miss the premier thinking it’s the 10th.
Thanks for the round up guys; I’m waiting for Once Upon A Time like burning! I can’t wait to see Emma interact with her parents.
@Sunny I’m right there with you. It makes me nervous that he hasn’t even been mentioned yet but hopefully that will change this weekend. Misha is on the panel at CC isn’t he(?) so I think it’s pretty guaranteed that there will be at least some news/mention of Castiel.
For now I’m staying positive. Carver wrote some of my favourite episodes and Castiel appears in many of them. I like his take on the character and, I don’t know why, but because he writes Castiel well I kind of get the impression that he likes him (yup, I’m totally just making stuff up now without any evidence to back it up – well it makes me feel better so I’m going to carry on), and that can’t be a bad thing for the Cas fans.
While I can understand the concern about the spoilers for Castiel, I am more skeptical of the concern for spoilers about Dean. There are, so far, more mytharc-related spoilers for Dean than for Sam. Sam so far…has a girlfriend. I can’t say I’m upset about Sam having a girlfriend, especially if the actress (who looks experienced) does a good job and they don’t have the character Dean-bashing every other word. Not every girlfriend Sam could have has to be Ruby.
The idea of Dean ending up in a hospital after Purgatory in the season premiere sounds like fun–but I’d think the most likely type of hospital for a post-Purgatory Dean would be a locked psychiatric ward. So, I don’t know how that would work.
A warning about spoilers–any storyline out there can be screwed up. There is not a single spoiler that can’t be spun negatively from here until October. Storylines are neutral. There may be stories that bad and lazy writers tend to pick, but I think the past three seasons have already shown that even good and original storylines can be screwed up by bad writing. So, let’s wait and see if Carver is truly a bad writer before we start calling him one.
Sunny, just because Dean is co-lead doesn’t mean anything, as Gamble has proved for the last 2 years and Kripke before that. Being co-lead didn’t give Dean any storyline of his own that didn’t have to do with coddling Sam. So while yes, Dean is co-lead, outside of season 4, that means nothing and after the past three years, even less.
The spoilers have not mentioned either Dean or Cas and the only reference Singer made regarding the Purgatory storyline had to do with Cas, not with Dean. Dean was, according to Singer, collateral damage because Crowley was after Cas.
So, so far, in keeping with the past 2 1/2 years, Dean’s storyline is reactive to everyone else, according to Singer. That’s hardly cheering news for Dean fans who have waited forever for Dean to have a storyline, and once he had it, it was completely torn from him and handed to Sam.
I was hoping the Purgatory would be Dean’s, but that’s no guarantee either.
Here are more BTS photos of 8.03 if anyone is interested.
http://supernatural-fandom.com/articles-spoilers/2012/07/12/supernatural-day-2-of-episode-8-03-bts-photos-of-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki-and-liane-balaban/
I don’t know about those spoilers, they are still too vague and it is too early to know whether they will go anywhere or not. I suppose, and hope, that this weekend will shed some light on just how “different, or not, Carver’s showrunning will be from SG’s. Of course, we won’t really know anything for sure until the first few episodes. Hey, we will know which way it is going to go just by seeing the opening graphics, right? The last few years, with the cold breaking glass, and then the black goo, really did mirror the sense of the seasons. S6, with the glass, cold and boring; S7 with its black and white goo, one dimensional and flat. If the graphics are flashy and dynamic, then so will the season be, right?
I was looking forward to Purgatory being front and center for a few episodes at least, and was initially disappointed that it would be represented in flashbacks, but the more I thought about it, the more I think that Carver may be on to something. To drag it out in flashbacks (long ones, not Hell pain-like ones), threading it throughout the season, ties it in to the mytharc in a much more interesting way, gives Dean a very good story throughout the season and will keep me hooked and wanting to watch it every week just to find out what really happened there. That his stay is related to the tablets, as it should be because Purgatory is a mythic, epic, potential story all by itself, seems only logical. Of course, they can screw it all up and take it somewhere completely different, but maybe they won’t.
Since the WB seems like it is finally going to actually promote this show probably means that Carver will actually change it up, regardless of what Singer said, because to change a showrunner, is to change a show in some way. Gamble put her mark on it, Carver is going to put his on it too, that is change. I suspect that Singer was talking about fundamental changes not being made such as not separating the brothers, or not taking away the Impala. Gamble changed it a lot, maybe Carver is going to put to back. I am going to stay positive for now, because looking forward to watching the show in October makes the summer so much more fun.
I must have Carver lenses in my Dean goggles. We know Carver is a good writer. Many of his supernatural episodes are the ones that stand out years later- for many reasons. Tension, horror, comedy, characterization and drama. We also know he is a good show runner. And his brief comments show he is a deep thinker about horror, understands it better than the previous two show runners and loves it.
Sure singer put his spin on things. His producers promos always put a spin that to me about things that were adjacent to the episode. He may try to be truthful without giving much away. I don’t know.
Sure I am disappointed that they are getting the boys back together soon. Hopefully the flashbacks will be potent.
Yes I held out hope until the bitter end last season that Dean would get something, anything. Disappointed? Sure until purgatory. Isn’t castiel a regular again? That means they have plans. In a lot of ways his arc is the richest. I hope they di something interesting with his story. I guess no one liked my idea that he was the one with the dark passenger and is possibly bennycas.
On a side note, ew ‘s inside TV blog reports that arrow premier got very positive feedback at comic con and. 666 park mostly positive feedback (apparently it’s no lost… works for me).
@castiel’scat: I honestly must have overread your idea with Benny!Cas. That could be an idea as well. It certainly would make me feel better in the “I will get to see Cas quite often this season”-department. I kind of doubt it though that they’d go this way, because Cas already had the Levis as dark passenger inside of him, so I think they might not repeat that with him, but hell… with those writers you never know.
Either way I hope Cas will be around a lot.
Yeah probably not going to happen. Just dark hair and Johnny cash by wayvof benicio del toro sounded up Mc’s alley. Also I thought singers comments were cafeteria about cas. Who knows. I am hoping Benny is a griffin. We haven’t had one of those. Would go nicely with Phoenix Dean or psycho Dean.
Dean’s intrepid detective role never came into beaing. He didn’t investigate anything. It was a total red herring.
I’m hazy on this, but didn’t Dean effectively “solve” the question of Cas’s betrayal? Which in theory, should be the most important realization of the whole noir plot? Dean didn’t intentionally investigate it, but he figured out that and a few other signficant details, I think.
I remember the bit about Superman as the big Cas-reveal moment, and it’s Dean who hears it/realizes what it means.
Anyway, that’s what I mean about the Show and Tell contradictions. They actually do Show Dean doing some gumshoe things and make some deductions.
If they had also Told more that matched what we were seeing, I’d contend they weren’t really in such bad shape on the noir they actually had going. To me it looks like they had fragments and ideas which they mishandled, rather than no ideas at all. A surprising amount could have been drawn up in a coherent narrative ribbon. It just wasn’t.
In retrospect I think it did. He investigated clues at the beginning when he was going djinn crazy. Then he investigated why gramps was taking alphas live. Then he investigated what was wrong with Sam and how to resoul Sam. Death told him to look into the soul business and by the end he found out cas whose deception was running throughout the entire season. Not entirely successful mind you but very noir.
Perhaps I will watch some Marlowe films and s6 and report back.
I meant to say singer was cagey previously not cafeteria. Sometimes my phone thinks its smarter than it is.
Guys???? Still alive? I mean after all the news and spoilers from Comic Con? cause I am barely keeping it together because I AM FREAKING EXCITED!!!! The spoilers sound sooooo promising!
Deep breaths, there, hon. The spoilers seem to be a bit vague, so far, but at least they don’t involve Baby–I mean, Dean–being put in a corner.
I do like the idea of exceedingly feral Dean coming in and upsetting Sam’s domestic apple cart. Again. People are complaining it’s like season six. Actually, it’s also a bit like the pilot. Only, this time, we might get it from Dean’s POV.
LOL, I know, I’m excited also. I’m hoping against hope that this season will really be different from the other seasons, especially the last 2 1/2 years and what’s coming from Comic Con is giving me more hope than I thought I would ever have again.
The Purgatory story for Dean and eventually Cas is just so intriguing! I hope Carver really doesn’t get bored and tells a good story about what happened to Dean and Cas in purgatory. I’m also interested in finding out who the baddie from Purgatory is and what relationship he/she has with Dean. I know he/she is the one that helped Dean out and Dean owes him big time. I can’t wait to see how that works out and what role Cas plays in the whole thing.
Good times!
It sounds as though the brothers will be looking for the amulet again.
It’s really too early to tell how well these plots will run out in the season, but I don’t know that it’s wrong to try some of the season six stuff again with the right brothers in the right roles. I’m not too wild about the idea of Sam being the Hero dragged out onto the road again a la the Pilot, but with Dean having Purgatory flashbacks, it sounds more as though the mytharc will be from Dean’s POV this time.
Oh, and Mr. Ackles–rocking the mid-80s Sonny Crockett look, are we?
A pressroom video interview with Jensen Ackles, in which he talks a bit at length about Dean’s Purgatory situation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUcnqODKc4k
He talks about the Big Bads for season eight. They’re Mayan, organ-stealing gods.
I don’t think the Mayans are the Big Bads of the season. They’re the Bads in the one-off MOTW that Jensen’s directing. They do sound like something that could fit longer, with the Raiders theme. Did I miss something?
And LOL. Stop me if you’ve heard this one before. Apparently Sam is all “completely obsessed with finding Kevin”, while Dean is all “well, sure, but he’s not here and we can save these people losing their kidneys right now.” I love it.
Also, I was mesmerized by Jensen’s eye-contact-avoidance fu. Soon he will attain true mastery.
The problem with that theory is that 1. You can’t hear the question the other guy is asking; 2. Ackles had previously talked about the episode he was directing and Mayan gods didn’t come up in any way, shape or form; and 3. Ackles said his directed episode is a standalone with essentially no mytharc elements. So, that debate between them really has no place in a standalone MOTW episode. I also don’t see why Sam would wait until 8.03 to tell Dean, “Hey, I think we should be looking for Kevin.”
Either way, it’s a brand-new spoiler.
The “kidneys” were artistic license, sorry. I thought the Kevin debate was in 8.03 but could be mistaken. Am good with Mayan gods either way.
Have I missed something, or will Sam’s fans all be in sackcloth and ashes now? Did they get anything on their wishlist? I’ve seen much to upset them, and that’s all. Domesticated, shrugged and left Dean to his fate…it seems like a bitter pill.
Okay. I haven’t read all the CC spoilers but yeah…it does seem like a repeat of season 6. But there are some differences. I did hope for new material from Carver.
As for Dean, it seems he is NOT pleased that his brother didn’t try to get him out, which is new for Dean. Usually he just forgives Sam and lets his inconsideration go. Seems that’s not happening this time.
But as Paula said, Sam is not really motivated as a hunter unless Dean is around. And it also doesn’t seem like Dean messes up Sam’s romance since it’s supposed to be over by the time Dean gets back. And I also don’t like it appearing that Dean is once again messing up Sam’s normal life by pulling him back into hunting. Course we know Sam has to rejoin somehow for the series, but why can’t he search out his brother after knowing he has return and ASKING him to take him back. Just seems like Dean is already getting the short end of the stick.
It also doesn’t seem like Dean is a repeat of “soulless!Sam”.” He has someone help him back, I’m guessing that’s this Benny we have been hearing about, who apparently also gets a free pass from Purgatory and once outside causes lots of trouble, putting Dean in another angst situation.
From what I’ve read so far, I’m not all that excited yet. If they do Dean right this time and show a good scary Purgatory, and with a 3.5mil budget per episode this year they should have good special effects, maybe it will be okay. It certainly isn’t the blockbuster Carver entrance I expected.
Maybe after I see all the spoilers, I’ll change my mind.
I find the spoilers really promising. Not so much about any specific development. But it sounds to me like the whole game is on track. I am quite pleased that the game plan is to branch both boys out into some new relationships. I’m especially excited over what that might mean for Dean. Did you see where he has been having “meetings”? Meetings! In Purgatory! Okay, that I really am psyched about.
Compare last year, when there was literally nothing to say about Dean (and, it transpired, for good reason.) And the big theme was “Butch and Sundance” but nobody could explain what that meant besides “loss”. And indeed, no, that really is all it meant. Sort of. If you squint.
So I don’t really care what they say. I care that they are actually thinking big-picture and long-term. I care that the goal is a story line that can play for years.
brb, gonna try to get a captcha in a more familiar alphabet…I really marvel at their ingenuity.
What’s the red-eyed chick supposed to be, anyway?
Some links to panel and pressroom stuff:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/15/supernatural-comic-con-interviews_n_1674845.html
http://www.tvovermind.com/supernatural/supernatural-press-room-season-8-spoilers-comic-con/
SPN Wiki page:
http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Comic_Con_2012
The “Vampirates” spoiler:
http://www.assignmentx.com/2012/breaking-news-supernatural-brings-you-vampirates-in-season-8/
Gotta be honest–I’m not that fussed about Sam just shrugging and retiring for a year because Sam’s always been like that. As long as Dean kicks his ass a bit for being that way (which Sam would deserve for that and a lot of other things), I’m okay with it. My main objection to Domesticated Dean and Soulless SuperHunter Sam is that neither one made any sense. Dean’s a much better and more experienced Hunter than Sam. Always has been. And Sam has always wanted to retire, so his insistence that he was resigned to Hunting always struck me as protesting a bit much.
Jensen Ackles’ stuff about Dean’s relationship with his Purgatory buddy sounds interesting and a bit like Dean having a Head MOTW that will slowly drive him bonkers.
Thanks for all the links, Paula!
I really still am beyond excited and the more clips I watch and interviews I read, the more excited I get. To me it seems that there will really be a well thought and planned storyline for Dean and my heart just skips a beat every time Jensen or Jeremy Carver mentions purgatory etc.
“Jensen Ackles’ stuff about Dean’s relationship with his Purgatory buddy sounds interesting and a bit like Dean having a Head MOTW that will slowly drive him bonkers.” Who am I kidding, this would be my dream scenario.
Dean having a phoenix alter ego driving him nuts. Perfection right there. I just watched a clip of Misha Collins though and in the small interview it did sound like it’s a flesh and blood third character. Of course it could still be a double Dean… 
But I’m not so sure.
Anyway, this quote from Carver below (there are so manye great ones though) btw pretty much seals the deal for me. Love that. Want that. And also love the fact that he seems to have a story (myth)arc in mind that elaborates and grows over more seasons and what’s not love about that?!
Here’s the quote:
“A lot of the season is all about perception. You might think something seems to be one way in the beginning […] It’s never quite how you think it is.”
Oh I think I missed that quote – that does sound good. I am very happy with what I’m hearing right now. Please someone keep Singer away from the press for just a little while longer, I don’t want to leave this happy place!
Ya never know. Carver might just happen to be a huge fan of My Bloody Valentine 3D.
Indeed thanks for the links. I was in transit and missed all of the hubbub. WOW OMG!!!! SO VERY EXCITED! I have not read anything but I think Bennie could be in Dean or in Cas (they are more cagey about Cas’ story than Dean’s). I loved loved loved JA in My Bloody Valentine 3d and I am sure Carver has seen it since he seems to be a real horror afficionado. JA can do crazy psycho bad so well… It is all so promising! Dean’s in the mytharc! I gleaned that Dean is the one that learned about the s8-10 mytharc in purgatory. I think the power source could be the word of god tablets. the search for something near and dear to the brothers could be the amulet I suppose, but I think that artifact is near and dear to the fans not the brothers. After all Dean threw it away. Maybe it is something in Dad’s storage locker… do not know. It does sound like they are giving crowley a lot to do.
regarding Ann Emmess’ query- look at the tvovermind link that Paula posted. there were some very angry sam fans in the comments. po’d that sam left hunting and dean (makes him look selfish) and also it was imperative for them that sam save dean. hate the emphasis on dean’s (and Cas’) purgatory storyline. really hate that dean’s purgatory story will get coverage when precious snowflake’s cage pain was ignored. hahahaha…. ah well. I think Sam focusing on Sam is pretty par for the course. The fact that he meets the doctor because he hits a stray dog indicates he really will have the human/non-mytharc story.
was lukewarm about the JA’s Miami Vice look but loved that he still has facial hair and his guns looked enormous in that jacket. He appears to have beefed up for purgatory/post-purgatory. I wondered if the talk about Sam having the human story might mean that Dean is not entirely human when he returns…
It should be very interesting. For once my dean goggles have not disappointed.
I’m a fan of the theory that Benny is actually a personality that Dean invents to be able to cope with of the things that might be required to do to stay alive.
There are a lot of qualities that can be applied to both Dean and Benny.
Superficial, he’s a guy, and sexy. Plus, he’s a charming, easy going and volitile, all things which can be used to describe Dean.
Plus, one couldn’t have gotten out without the other, and he’s sticking around and causing trouble and not going away.
I think the answer to whether Benny is real or not will be taking clear of quickly if we see him interact with anyone else.
Yes, please that would kind of be the cherry on top! Benny as Dean’s purgatory alter ego. I love!
on Supernatural tv: Season details for Comic con, comments section, a commenter early on combines tweets from comic con including one that says a character long thought dead from the first three seasons is the big bad, and that the first season’s plot will intersect with season 8. I will be majorly mad if it ends up to be all about sam again… the major arc was finding dad, but we were introduced to the burning house of winchesters and YED. Anything else?
I think I found the original source for the tweet I mentioned above:
SDCC Supernatural Season 8 spoilers masterpost | Flutiebear …
flutiebear.tumblr.com/…/sdcc-supernatural-season-8-spoilers-masterp…
12 hours ago – SDCC Supernatural Season 8 spoilers masterpost Hiding these (and my … Benny? Or perhaps a previous monster like Dick or maybe (gasp) …
the above mentioned link also talks about cas’ appearance changing in purgatory and an established relationship getting resolved.
Really liking the spoilers coming from CC and liking the discussion and theories posted here even more. It gives me hope for the new season and excites me for the new season.
@castiel’scat I checked the tvovermind link Paula gave us and took a quick glance at the comments and I was very, very surprised. Indeed, the Sam fans are up in arms, BIG TIME. I was also really surprised to read complaints about Sam having taken care of Dean since S2 and Dean has been mad at him for four seasons or something. Um…WHAT??? Sure, Sam was worried about Dean in S2 but Dean was also worried about Sam, same for S3 (more evidenced by Sam that season though for obvious reasons). S4 Sam got messed up by focusing on revenge and getting high on demon blood and not caring about Dean in the aftermath of Hell. S5 Dean was struggling with Sam massive betrayal as well as the weight of having to save the world and Sam was struggling with the guilt and what he should do. Despite that both brothers were taking care of the other relatively. S6-7 has had Dean stuck almost completely in the caretaker role with no one giving a hoot about him an the care HE needs since Sam was first soulless and then had the Great Wall of Sam which came a tumbling down thanks to Cas leaving Sam seeing Lucifer all over the place. Just *where in there was Sam taking care of Dean??? Okay, so he showed some concern in the last few episodes of S7 but not much since he was preoccupied!
Now I freely admit I am a Dean girl through and through and have been hard on Sam’s character, probably harder than I should be, but I was really surprised by the complaints against Dean and how we’re going to see what happened in Purgatory when we didn’t see what happened to Sam in Hell…uh, excuse me, we barely saw/know ANYTHING about DEAN’s time in Hell!! With Sam there was a lot of information, it was just poorly planned and told in the scripts. I agree Sam has gotten the shaft in regards to character treatment by the writers, but at least he had a story! Dean didn’t have anything in S7!
Whew, I feel better now. Sorry about the rant. Just needed to give voice to my thoughts. Eh, sorry if it jumps too. My brain was racing.
On to happier things!
In regards to the spoilers, I agree with the article writer and Padalecki that Sam taking the time to be normal to remind himself what he is fighting for is a good thing. Not thrilled that its reminisce of the Pilot and Dean showing up and dragging Sam back onto the road, but hopefully this will allow for Sam’s character to reboot and regain some likability. I do question Sam not looking all that hard for Dean. Since Sam has always been promoted as the smart one, I’m kinda going with Sam guessing Dean may be in Purgatory but also believing him dead. And considering Death’s lesson to Dean and how Dean himself made it very clear it was very, very bad to be brought back after death and what happened with Bobby’s ghost, I can see Sam stepping back. Kinda. I just wish we could *see* this growth and possible moral cleanout which he needs so badly. Sam’s biggest character problem imo is so much of it happens of screen or comes out of the blue it feels false because we, the audience, don’t see anything or enough to justify him reaching whatever point it is. I’m hoping Carver will fix that. He did write “Mystery Spot’ afterall, so there’s hope.
As for Dean, I don’t blame him for being a bit upset with Sam after he gets back and finds Sam not hunting and so on BECAUSE I’m betting Sam looking for him is a large part of what keeps Dean fighting to get back, to keep going and not be consumed by the monsters of Purgatory or his inner demons. It raises the question, yet again, just what and for who is Dean fighting for? And that, I think, could prove very, very dangerous especially since forty years in Hell plus however much Purgatory time passes during the one year means Dean’s survival and hunting skills are going to be honed beyond belief. I just don’t see Dean coming back and automatically adhering to his old moral code because Purgatory should instill a big fight or flight response. As Paula has said in the past, Dean is perfectly capable of walking right off the moral map because his code is his own and no one else. I imagine a Sam who has spent a year as a civilian will take issue with that again as seen more in S1. So if Dean comes back with a phoenix alter ego, I say bring it on!
Much agreement with Ann Emmes that this season really sounds planned out overall and the brothers have individual arcs and relationships going on. Sure it could be messed up, but at least it will be a messed up writing mess following a plan. I’m a glass half full kinda gal, I guess.
At the Press Room interviews, Alice Jester asked Carver who the writers are this season and reports:
Jeremy Carver
Adam Glass
Ben Edlund
Eugenie Ross Leming and Brad Buckner
Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin
Robbie Thompson
So, Adam Glass is not gone, after all. He also said Ben would be handling the comedy episodes this season.
from Comic-Con 2012: Flashbacks Will Be Huge in Supernatural’s Next Season, tv.com
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By Tim Surette Follow
Writer extraordinaire Ben Edlund, who has written some of the series’ most daring and memorable episodes, reflected on the last season and what’s coming up. And he kind of hinted at disappointment in Season 7. “It would be cool if we had a higher instance of absurdist toss-away episodes,” Edlund said. “I think that that’s something oddly we would have had more of last year, because it seemed to me like we were moving in the direction of a B-movie premise with the monsters [the Leviathans]. I would say the monsters were actually a wrestling match of things that worked and didn’t work, but mythologically speaking they set the ground for other things that I’m very pleased we’ve got working in our grandfather clock, so to speak.”
I asked Edlund about the tone of the season, now that Carver is running the show, and whether it would be lighter and more fun. “I’ll say that our arc is in some senses pretty serious, but I think what that means is a higher index of comedy, similar to the Republican administration [laughs].”
This sounds to me like the main mytharc deals somehow with purgatory.
Here is the link for the tv.com comic con piece:
Comic-Con 2012: Flashbacks Will Be Huge in Supernatural’s Next Season
TV.com (blog) – 14 hours ago
By the way, the last sentence about main mytharc being related to purgatory in some fashion was me speaking. Sorry not so clear in the post.
You guys need to know that we have a new survey going up about the site’s content. The article is here:
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The survey is here:
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We are looking at getting rid of all TV content by the end of the year unless we can find a way to make it work financially for the site. That means all of the TV reviews, including SPN, and the spoilers column. If you want to keep these, you should check out the survey and make a donation or buy one of our books.
How sad.
happy to take the survey.. Will buying the book (s) through Amazon be kosher, or will it negate that the purchase is website inspired.
Well I’ve read most or all of the CC spoilers now and I still am not that enthused. It just seems like a rehash of season 6 and some even of season 1 and 2.
Okay we all wanted the return to the earlier years, but not to just rehash old plots. Instead of finding Dad, we are apparently finding Kevin…at least for Sam’s arc. And how Amelia fits in is a mystery since she and Sam are supposed to be over before Dean gets back. Hence his ‘love relationship’ lasts less than a year.
And why the time jump again? They did that in season 6 too and then promptly forgot all about it. On top of that we find Dean returning with a possible Big Bad, more serious problems with Crowley, who isn’t the big bad, and Sam off playing house and doing nothing to follow the family business of saving people because he is sad, believes he in not betraying anyone because they are all dead and just decides to quit. I fail to see how that shows us Sam has either changed OR matured.
So Dean saves himself, again, probably at least in part because he is worried about Sam, and when he gets back, he once again takes hero Sam from his happy life and pushes him back into hunting. AND this time he is upset that Sam did nothing to try to help him get out of Purgatory. I can just hear all the excuses Sam will successfully use to explain how he totally quit his brother when Dean has never quit Sam and all the Sam fans raving about how mean Dean is again.
I really do not see anything new in this at all. And I can see the beginnings of Sam the special snowflake all over again.
I will say that a friend when to CC and talked to a lot of bigwigs and she said one of the main reason she feels this season will be good, is because Jensen was happy. And it was a genuine happy not a faked/acted one. I also got that feeling from all the press I read. And I also feel Jensen and Jeremy are on the same wavelength.
So I guess I’ll put on the Dean goggles for a while and see where this all goes.
As far as Sam fans being upset……UNBELIVEABLE!!! They really need to get over themselves.
I was finally able to watch all the panels from Comic Con, and I was struck by how relaxed everyone was. On the main panel, I felt Jensen was really stepping into the leadership role, with all the others, including Jared, being pretty deferential to him.
I went looking for Jeremy Carver’s interviews. I wanted to see what kind of a guy he was, as I’d never seen him before. I sure liked him. He struck me as someone Jensen would get along with very well, and I felt like he was (a) honest, (b) had an actual plan in mind, and (c) had a pretty good feel for the show and where it’s been.
Of course, I was very glad to hear that Dean, along with Sam, has a year-long story this year. It sounds like Cas is going to be developed, too. And the Purgatory story is not going to be overlooked. Yea for that!
I agree with Paula in that I don’t care that Sam didn’t look for Dean; that fits Sam’s character. I also think it’s going to be a way to get Sam back into character after all the mess we’ve seen for several years now.
It does sound like Dean will be badass, and Jensen said he would learn in Purgatory that he is a hunter. That’s all I really wanted: a Dean story, Dean to be a badass hunter, and to see some of Purgatory.
I would really like it if Bennie was a projection of Dean’s personality. That would be so cool.
I don’t know what the Sam fans want. All I heard last year was that Sam needed other people, besides Dean, and that Dean has Cas, so Sam should have someone. Now he does and they are still pissed. Go figure.
Paula, I sure hope you keep at least the SPN review. I like your reviews so much and feel if this site did away with it, that leaves only those bloggers that gush over Sam and/or Cas. If this site does away with SPN, I know that will end my online participation, and I do like to get other perspectives. I don’t buy your books, but I do donate to the site, so here’s hoping you can make it work.
“I agree with Paula in that I don’t care that Sam didn’t look for Dean; that fits Sam’s character. I also think it’s going to be a way to get Sam back into character after all the mess we’ve seen for several years now.”
Yes it does fit Sam’s character, and I don’t care that he did nothing either. But we are supposed to be seeing a different Sam, a more mature Sam. This just does not seem to be a good start toward getting Sam back on track.
And Paula I hope you keep the SPN review and spoiler column too. I do donate to the site as well but because of the Spn columns
Many wfb commenters are also in a flurry, and at supernatural.tv. What I have learned reading diverse sites is a lot of people have a vision of Sam that comes from their perceptions and not what as written. I guess Dean girls (me) and Cas girls (me) also lend something of ourselves to the interpretation… that said, yeah, I find I have a hard time understanding the other side sometimes. I think they had some major expectations regarding Sam freeing Dean that have been squashed and also want the writers to support their vision of the wonderboy hero. To me Sam’s actions are completely in character, and perhaps in this instance him choosing himself is maybe not so awful. I had a close family member under psychiatric care, and difficult situations with a loved one can destroy the rest of their family if they are not capable of thinking of themselves. I think this is what they mean by co-dependency. Anyhow, if Sam were in a mental hospital we know that Dean cannot walk away; Dean is co-dependent. Sam may not be co-dependent and he has walked away from a life he considers harmful to himself and his desires. I do think the character often comes off as selfish. this time, maybe the writers are showing him to be in a healthy place for the first time. He is not being ruled by vengeance, or pride or addiction or mental illness. A healthy Sam will lead to growth. However, if he is not freeing Dean because he believes him to be dead I am still flummoxed that he has left a teenage boy hanging in the wind. I guess without Dean he has no fight left for the supernatural.
Dean in purgatory for a year or more, making a deal with a bad element to get out, emerging battle scared, battle hard, trigger finger ready and possibly possessed, sharing his head space and or crazy… yes! The funny thing is I think most Dean fans are excited because it is a great story and Dean is in the thick of it, even if Dean maybe crossing that heroic moral center of his in the process. Please Phoenix Feral Dean be ferocious.
The idea that Cas may be physically altered by purgatory… what does this mean?
@castiel’scat
I really don’t think Sam-fans are ever happy. No matter what they get, they are still jealous of Dean. They are the reason we had to have Sam’s hell be so much worse that Dean’s even though Sam handle it much worse that Dean did.
Now they are angry he got the Purgatory arc, and that he’s been to hell and Purgatory and Sam was just in hell….even though Dean’s hell story was dropped quickly and Sam’s was dragged out for almost 2 yrs. And even then what they finally ended that horrible arc, Sam-fans were angry it didn’t go on longer.
I still don’t get why they wanted Sam to save Dean. The writers have never had Sam help Dean. Sam’s too busy making messes that Dean has to clean up for him. And they all feel that is the only reason Dean exists…to cater to Sam.
And I never understood why people think Dean is co-dependent. Maybe I don’t get the real concept of co-dependency but to me it means someone can’t psychologically survive without someone else.
Dean has done nothing but be the strong one and hold Sam together for 4 yrs now. I have never see Dean unable to live without Sam. In season 5 after they separated at Sam’s request because once again Sam was just not strong enough, Dean didn’t want them back together again.
Sam on the other hand does seem to need Dean a lot IF he is going to hunt. I think he has shown on a number of occasions that he can live a normal life without Dean. But for hunting and MOTW stuff, he doesn’t seem to be able to hold it together if Dean’s not around.
He fell for Ruby’s stuff when Dean was in hell and became an alcoholic to boot. Now they have him just giving up…just quitting and not even trying to find his brother.
That is so totally what Sam would do, what Sam has always done, I don’t see why Sam-fans are upset about it. They loved it in the past.
Thanks, guys!
The bottom line is that we don’t want to lose you as readers, but we’re trying to get a handle on our readership and our marketing. This is part of that process. I’ve been told that we need a better idea of what people are getting from our site and whether or not the TV reviews and various columns are helping us financially. We need your input.
In reality, we are not a fan site (This is *not* a hit at fan sites) but a semi-pro zine, so our focus is a bit different from something like, say, SPN.tv. We’re more like Bloody Disgusting-meets-Something Wicked. Plus, we’ve only got one editor (little old me) and I also have a full-time freelance business on the side that has decided to wake up, finally, and roar (if only like a kitten). So, we have to prioritise. If the SPN reviews and spoilers columns are getting us new readers who are also willing to donate, buy a book, etc., then they’ll keep going in the New Year (though possibly with some revamping).
If you love the SPN reviews (or other reviews) and the spoilers column, please let us know. If you have any problems with the site like functionality or broken links, please let us know (politely, of course, but do let us know, since broken links are no good to anybody). If there is stuff you’d like to see that you’d be willing to pay for in some way, please let us know. The survey is your chance to let us know what you like on the site, what you don’t like, and what you are willing to buy or pay for with us (Clicking on ads also helps us).
Look, our nefarious plan really isn’t all that nefarious–we wanted to draw in new readers for our fiction via popular media reviews and news stories about horror and other speculative genres. Our reviews and articles naturally reflected our interests, like Lovecraft and my being a fan of SPN, which is why we were reviewing the stuff we did. That’s it. Nothing more underhanded than that…well, aside from that new undersea power station off Massachusetts that will prove most useful when R’lyeh, but there’s no need to get into that.
@Cassieo
Well, it’s not set in stone, yet. Take the survey; let us know what you think. At the very worst, nothing will disappear before January.
@castiel’scat
Amazon is totally kosher. I know some writers have issues with Amazon. We don’t. In addition, if you buy anything from Amazon through links on our site, we also get affiliate funds (So, say, if you buy SPN stuff from the ads on our site, that helps us, too).
@Ginger
Thanks! Take the survey; let us know officially. It will help us get a clearer picture of our readership.
As for Sam, personally, I’d prefer that they had never gone the self-centred jerk route, but if they are going there, the second-best approach is to be honest about it and see where it leads, including not letting Sam off the hook for any real-world consequences. If you’re a self-centred jerk, people around you get irritated with that, eventually. If you’re a self-centred jerk who won’t go out on his own to save the world, then you’re probably not very heroic. But that doesn’t mean a good story can’t be written about you or from your POV, either, as long as the author is honest about how that goes and doesn’t try to Mary-Sue you off the hook.
And I’m all for Feral Dean, whatever the flavor, but Feral Dean with more than a few twists and secrets going on with him is even better. Since the show often likes to give us Dean POVs (and that’s popular with the fandom), Dean not being entirely in his right mind and not being able to tell reality entirely apart from fantasy is a logical way that could go.
I did take the survey, Paula. I didn’t know to put in any problems with the site which I have. And it messed me up again today. Where do I go to report it? Do you just want me to take the survey again and include it this time? And yes I have donate to the site for a few years now because of the wonderful work you do with the SPN columns and because of the great discussions we have here. I have even checked out other columns on occasion too. So I do hope you keep at least this SPN one.
@castiel’scat
Thanks for your explanation of co-dependency. It makes sense. I guess I just don’t see Dean feeling that his brother’s problems are his fault. Yes, he’s protective of Sam but that’s just a normal parental feeling and any parent has a hard time letting go…especially when the child has never grown up.
He did save Sam from the fire and raise him, shield him from bad as long as he could. And I didn’t feel he thought helping Sam with his soul issue was because he viewed it as his fault. Sam made the choice to drink the demon blood, over the objection of Dean, and he chose to jump in the pit when Dean had been written to ‘damaged’ to think right. Sam has never made good choices for hunting on his own and he’s not a good judge of character.
To me Dean is not co-dependent, just showing the family bond the show has been built on. And not even when he gave his life for Sam since that was the whole core of the show….family comes first always. At that time we all thought Sam would do the same if the situation were reversed. Now we know different.
Dean is the only one that has tried to adhere to the core philosophy of the series. Sam on the other had has done everything he can to destroy that and all for selfish reasons. Dean is the protagonist and Sam is the antagonist.
Paula, Yes there are many normal people on SPN that don’t hunt and save people, but that is not the premise of the brothers. Both are supposed to be heroes…willing to sacrifice their lives for the weak and innocent and for the last 7 yrs the only one who has shown those values was Dean. And he has had to do double duty by also continuing to protect Sam from himself.
So for me, given what we are supposed to expect from the brothers and the original premise for the series, Sam doesn’t get a pass for giving up. For have losses that keep him from continuing to hunt and save the innocent, for not continuing to do what he knows needs to be done and for completely abandoning his brother again. That just is not what the show is supposed to be about. If they want the brothers to be heroes….both of them…then Sam has to step up to the plate like Dean has done. Sam has to start pulling his own weight and from what I’ve seen of the spoilers so far, that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.
I do hope Dean comes back with a new philosophy of having Sam start to pull his own weight. And having Dean supposedly angry at Sam for retiring and not even trying to help him is a start. I always felt Dean should have torn into Sam for leaving him in hell and no I don’t think the few things they had Sam do were sufficient. Really, Dean in the same situation would not have given up on Sam and Sam had supper powers at the time.
I just think the anger the TPTB will get from the Sam-fans for showing Sam to be a self-centered jerk will stop them from continuing in that vein for the entire season. And in the end we will get Dean dumped on again.
Hi Paula, I did fill in the survey, but missed out the fact that I do click on advertisers. I would buy the books, but they don’t look to be available in the UK on Kindle and I can’t order them by mail since usually I get every body else’s mail in the area except mine.
All books are available worldwide on the Kindle: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007SIT35K/?tag=innsfreepres-20
Excellent thank you, I have no idea why I couldn’t see them before.
Awesome. Glad to help.
Templar Convivencia is also available here for the UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008CXB038/?tag=innsfreepres-20
I am the one that threw co-dependency out there as I mulled this issue. I had to deal with this family member and the psychiatric hospital business twenty years ago and my memory is fuzzy. What I am trying to say is that some people put others before themselves which is great but if they are not able to recognize when the relationship is destroying them and make a decision that is best for their own health and stability, the situation of the one destroys the other. yes Sam often chooses Sam for what seems to be selfish reasons for us. But if after the extreme “loss” of season 7 including his brother was too much for him, perhaps he left hunting to save himself. Dean too will come back changed. Dean from season 1-7 had a hard time putting himself before Sam’s needs. This doesn’t mean Dean is weak. It simply means he is putting himself at risk. We saw this in extremety in season 2 in which he gave his life for his brother to live. Now Sam sacrificed himself in 5 but it wasn’t for Dean… it was to redeem himself. Now if one of the changes in Dean is that he looks out for himself as well as others… this is great. He can be a hero without the death wish. My understanding of co-dependency, and maybe I am wrong, is that the illness or problems of your brother become your problems. Taking this outside of supernatural, lets say your brother is a drunk. If you feel responsible for his state, and let this affect your life to such a degree that you are dragged down by his drinking you are co-dependent. A healthier response is to be sad that he is an alcoholic, to try to help him as much as you can, but to remember that this is ultimately up to him to fix.
This is just me trying to process this scenario. I doubt the writers said: lets really show how selfish sam is. I think they said: the brothers’ relationship is unhealthy and prevents them from growing as individuals and characters. Lets push them out of the dysfunction. This is potentially good for both of them.
But yeah, Sam has exhibited selfish behavior towards his bother since childhood. And viewing this as another in the list is easy to do. I don’t find it out of character. I don’t find either interpretation out of character. Sam leaving for Stanford may also be interpreted as him trying to save himself from being destroyed by his father’s unhealthy obsession.
I surprised myself in trying to see how this sam plot might be viewed in a favorable light.
Again it amazes me that we all want Dean dark. I think Samfans hated his dark period.
To my surprise, I’m just not that bothered by the Sam spoilers. Yes, they make him seem like a selfish wanker, a bit, because we’re looking at it from the perspective of a Hunter. But he’s no worse than your average civilian on the show and they’re not treated as evil for being self-absorbed. Hunters like Dean actually envy them as “innocent”.
Also, I’m not sure why a Sam fan would hate these spoilers (though I agree that many do). Don’t they want Sam to have been happy for the time jump? Sam gets to retire, which I always thought was something he really wanted to do, to be relatively content and find a new love, at least for a while. I never bought his whole “I’m a martyr because I can’t do anything but hunt now, nor do I want to retire” act. I certainly didn’t buy that Dean wanted to retire. Watching Dean try to live the “normal” life was like watching a tiger pacing in a small iron cage or a madman in his padded cell. Dean wasn’t happy retired, he was in prison. For Sam, it’s different. Sam can be happy as someone who is not hunting. As someone already put it (Castiel’s Cat? Cassieo?), his devotion to hunting was always half-hearted. He was never a full denizen of the supernatural the way his brother was. Just as Mary was fooling herself by trying to retire and John was fooling himself thinking he could hunt and not lose his humanity (then retire), Dean could never fully leave the supernatural life and Sam could never fully embrace it. Sam retiring, no matter how big a jerk it makes him look, works for him as a character.
I also like the hints that they’ve finally left behind the idea that Sam is not entirely human and given it to Dean, because it always belonged with Dean. Sam was always the human character who struggled with the harsh, alien environment of the supernatural. Dean was always the feral human who struggled with the overly restrictive, sheltered environment of Middle America. It only took them seven seasons to figure that one out.
I’ll just say it agin. I LOVE all the spoilers. I love all the specs about a very dark/very messed up/very over the top amazing hunter/evil purgatory alter ego Dean.
At the moment what to me makes this possibility, I mean that Benny either is a new form of Cas (physical changes – even though I immediately thought, maybe something happens to Cas’ wings in purgatory) or a split personality of Dean is that we haven’t read about a casting call at all. Maybe that really is, because they don’t need to cast, because they already got the actor or he is just inside of the head of one of the characters anyway. Or they just really want it to be a surprise and keep it top secret, who will play that Benny guy.
They start filming the first epi on thursday and as far as I can tell from spoilers and interviews that’s where we also get introduced to Benny, so either they got the actor for that part and keep very quiet. Which makes me very curious, who they casted for the part OR as said they didn’t need to cast.
For a short second I had the crazy idea that maybe JDM could make a comeback or something crazy like that. I think the description of Benny certainly would to a certain extent fit John Winchester (plus: where the hell are him and Mary? They weren’t in heaven. Which also tickled another of my crazy ideas, the thought that maybe John Winchetser is god, I have no validation for those crazy ideas, sometimes I just get those ideas. LOL) but other than my short crazy idea forming in my brain there of course is no hints to any of that.
As for the Big Bad from the first 3 seasons makign a comeback. Of course at first I thought of YED (wouldn’t like that so much), but then again, could also be Gordon. Would fit with the Alpha!Vamp saying “see you next season!”.
What else can I say… I like Sam’s human storyline, but I doubt really hard that Sam is actually stupid enough not to think about the possibility of Dean getting sucked to purgatory. I mean, come on. He’s always described as this super intelligent freak… Anyway, I don’t like that he didn’t even look for Dean (which of course gives us a raging Dean, which of course I love to see), but for character development purposes I am okay with it.
I can just say it again. castiel’scat and my Dean goggles doesn’t seem to disappoint, I am happy to pass mine around.
@ Paula —
I agree. It’s like Sam and Dean will both make a major step towards their natural destinies.
SPN’s been shaped, from the start, by this idee fixe about what each character means. They doggedly ignored the cues to reassess their automatic checklist for a very long time. And now, it looks like they’re going to majorly reassess, for the long haul.
I get why Sam fans are upset he stayed home. They wanted their guy to be that guy, the hero, who will stop at nothing, never give up. Who knows neither failure nor surrender.
Thing is, Sam’s heroic. But he’s never, ever been that kind of hero. That kind of hero is heedless and reckless and feral. When has Sam ever been any of that? For all his powers and demon blood, Sam has always been an intensely human hero, aware of his frailties and ashamed of his weakness.
And I would love to meet Sam, written as the kind of hero he actually is, instead of squashed and bent into a shape that he isn’t.
And I will love to see what happens, if Dean embraces the hero that he actually is. Which is not human. Dean’s been portrayed as a demigod ever since “Hey tiger!” Wasn’t Hercules’ first feat to strangle snakes in his crib? Dean pulled a baby out of a fire and raised it as his own. And that was before he began his excursions into every immortal realm. And sought to slay every monster he could find, simply because it was the right thing to do.
Don’t get me wrong — it’s late and I’m feelin’ florid. Season 8 will be pretty much in tune with all the seasons before it, for good and ill.
I just feel like these adjustments are…rearranging the show’s chakras, you know? Getting its spine into alignment. Getting the chi to flow.
Like, stories will flow better, undammed by the past.
Oh, and Paula? Congrats on your freelance work! That’s great.
Just had to say one more thing. The biggest clue for me that we could be getting an amazing season is how comfortable they all seem to be. Like… realxed and genuinely happy. Especially Jensen.
Also, I was just watching this interview with him and what he says sounds like everything us Dean goggle wearing fans want to see in Dean in the coming season. Dean knowing he was brought here to be a hunter, more clarity. And: the first thing Jensen says before he sits down to start the interview is: “…this isn’t our final season…” Lo-lo-loveeeee!
Here’s a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi-pC40ly6A
I needed to re-play it some, because you know… Jensen can be very distracting.
Hahaha! That’s ‘super powers’ not ‘supper powers.’ And Paula, congrats on your freelance business. I wish you a lot of success with it, but hope it doesn’t take you away from us.orlderac lordship’s
From Ausiello.
Question: Give me a break and drop me a Supernatural scoop, wouldya? —Jordan
Ausiello: Dean’s going to find himself “indebted” to one of those purgatory badasses the EPs teased during the show’s Comic-Con panel. “There’s going to be a character [introduced in Episode 1] that gets Dean out,” reveals Jensen Ackles. “It’s like, ‘I need you and you need me.’ And of course, he’s not a good guy. That character stands to pose a bit of an issue for Dean because maybe there are things that Dean has hidden that he doesn’t want to tell Sam that happened in purgatory.” Bonus scoop: Rumor has it the evildoer in question sports fangs.
@Paula
Oh, Paula I forgot to ask you where your recap and review is for Jump the Shark?
@Cassieo
You can always post here or email us at innsmouthfp(at)gmail(dot)com if you’re having problems with the site. Keep in mind that we’re on at different points of the day and, if something big is happening with the server, *we* might not be able to get in and answer you right away on the site, but we can look into things for you if they’re not working.
@Sherry
Thanks! I remember that interview. Sounds like Ausiello just watched a few videos like the rest of us instead of getting an inside scoop. Though the bit about Benny being a vamp is new (Maybe he really is Gordon?).
Per the note on the review last week, we’re moving SPN reviews to Fridays starting this week, in anticipation of the new slot in the fall.
Benny was described as johnny cash by way of benicio del toro… not jiving with Gordon. I have read spec that that the season 1-3 character believed dead who is back is either YED or Gordon.
While it’s entirely possible that Benny is a new character, keep in mind that the writers have foilered before. On the other hand, I understand Sterling Brown is still doing Army Wives, so Gordon may not be in the cards. YED was a demon not a vamp, though Lehne might be available. On the other hand, YED was only in the first two seasons and Gordon wasn’t in season one. I don’t think there are any single recurring villains who appeared in the all of the first three seasons. Even Meg was only in seasons one and two, and then skipped to five. And she’s not dead.
Thanks Paula. I’ll use the email.
As for the s1-3 bad gut who was thought dead but is back….I was under the impression that he/she was in the earlier seasons, not necessarily all three. I’ll have to try and find the source of that spoiler.
Also YED is a demon and when he dies he goes to hell. Gordon is a vamp when he dies he goes to Purgatory and anyone in Purgatory, unless they got there via a leviathan, is dead. So it’s not a living person they thought dead. If your in Purgatory, your dead.
However the boys killed many monsters during that time and as the season is supposed to be about angels and demons again, I would think it would be a vamp or skinwalker.
If this person is Benny, he isn’t from the earlier years because we don’t recognize the name, and no reason a monster would need an alias is Purgatory.
So I can see Benny being a vamp, since Worthy said the vamps are going to play a large role this year, but I’m guessing it is not a monater from s1-3. Just my two cents worth.
@Cassieo
You’re welcome.
Actually, when demons are exorcised, they go back to Hell. When they “die” (i.e. are destroyed), they are simply gone.
It’s certainly possible that there is a “beyond” beyond all the known worlds in the SPNverse (where souls originally come from, for example), but it’s not been mentioned yet.
You know what I begin to think? They just call this character Benny because if they would reveal the “real” name it would spoil way too much. So, if it’s Gordon and they’d say that all the anticipation would be gone out of the window.
Also, no one heard of a casting call. I assume the guy would have to be in canada at this point because the 1st episode starts shooting tomorrow. And from what Ackles said this episode features heavily how Dean escapes purgatory. I really hope though that it’s realyl a new character for some reason. Or if Benny really ends up being Alter!Ego!Dean or Alter!Ego!Cas. That would still by far be my favourite options.
If it’s a vap who helps him get out – judging from interviews with Worthy saying that the Alpha!Vamp will be back and Dean’s backstory of being a vamp, I could imagine it to be a vamp to help him get out, but only because it would tie in into Dean’s backstory. I actually would like another creature better – not such a big fan of the SPN vampires for some reason. Which makes me wonder, what was the name of the vamp that got killed when Gordon gets turned? Maybe it’s that guy, he seemed kinda less monster-ish because of family talk yada yada.
Also tieing in with that maybe vampires will play some “bigger” role this season is that Ben Edlund says that he wrote an episode for this season that involves Vampirates. yes, vampies living on a boat sucking people’s blood. I can’t remember where I read it and if that was him joking around but… yeah for some weird reason that would so fit to Ben Edlund, because to me in a weird way he’s the real life Captain Jack Sparrow. I don’t know why that is and it might sound a little crazy, but just judging from his personality at CC he just has this vibe going on. I don’t know…
Anyway, let’s hope Benny is not a shifter and makes him look like Ben. I’m hopelesly rooting for Benny!Dean.
It’s not Gordon.
I thought there was a casting call for Benny. I remember reading something about them looking for a 30ish good looking guy who seems likeable but masks a deep savagery.
I went to look at Spoiler tv to see if I could find it and but they had a new spoiler up that Benny has been cast.
http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/07/supernatural-season-8-benny-role-cast.html
Ty Olsson, who was on Battlestar Galactica. I’m not sure if they are going on rumor from the Ausiello spoiler or if its been confirmed that he’s a vampire.
I saw the press releases too. Came out right after midnight last night. Seems Benny was a part of Lenora’s vamp nest back in season 2. His name then was Eli. Not a big part back then so not too many will remember him. And it seems you *do* need an alias in Purgatory
Who would have thought!
http://tvline.com/2012/07/17/supernatural-ty-olsson/
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2012/07/supernatural-casts-season-8s-ben
ny-ty-olsson-lands-the-role.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
He was the bartender I think. He wasn’t a bad guy then.